This Tarky is Keane's replacement nonsense

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:10 pm

Who's the clairvoyant at Burnley FC then?

Tarky signs for Burnley - January 16
Keane leaves Burnley - July 17

I presume there was some sort of thought for the future with the signing of Tarky, but there isn't any now that we're in the Premier League?

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:15 pm

Last season we had Mee and Keane playing as centre backs for the majority of the season.
This season we have Mee and Tarkowski playing as centre backs in the first 3 PL games, I think that Tarkowski has replaced Keane and I don't see why that is considered as nonsense -- it seems quite logical that we play players that are signed on for the club rather than ask Everton if we can play Keane for a bit longer.

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:16 pm

It was fairly obvious Keane was going to move on, and that we identified Tarks as someone who could provide a good back up option to Keane and Mee, whilst developing into a potential replacement.

And that has happened.

The same sort of thing looks to be happening with Taylor and Ward/Mee. Taylor is a decent back up option, but will get better with games played etc.

Also, it doesn't make too much sense for Dyche to sign players who are 3/4 years from playing for the first team. He can't risk them now, and probably won't be here once they are ready. It's his job to win games now, not in 3/4 years time.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:17 pm

Tarky was Duffs replacement but the combined factors of Ben Mees performances and our unbeaten run meant Tarkowski had to wait. There is no doubt Keane hasn't been replaced by a body and that is a huge risk.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 pm

Its not a difficult concept really.

Just because he signed the previous window doesn't mean that he's not a replacement for Keane.

He was signed as central defensive cover and as such a replacement CB should one of our other CB's leave.

Michael Keane has now left and James Tarkowski has filled that position. The same James Tarkowski would have filled the position left Ben Mee should he have left.

I don't understand how that is so difficult to understand.

And what we need now is to fill the CB void left by Tarkowski moving up to Keane's position, which granted we didn't do.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:19 pm

KlyBfc wrote:Tarky was Duffs replacement

I thought that was obvious to everyone, but clearly it isn't.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:19 pm

It's a pretty irrelevant point, but I also think Tarkowski was signed with the intention of him replacing Keane.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:20 pm

Last season, first choice pairing was Mee and Keane. Back up was Tarks and Long.

This season, first choice pairing is Mee and Tarks. Back up is Long and take your pick of any non central defenders.

We are weaker in the middle of defence than we were last season, both in terms of quality and quantity.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:21 pm

Thank God nobody made an offer for Tom. This forum would be in complete meltdown.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:23 pm

Some people so obviously struggle to understand forward planning.

The same sort that continually run out of tea, coffee, milk and sugar no doubt.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:27 pm

JohnMac wrote:Some people so obviously struggle to understand forward planning.

The same sort that continually run out of tea, coffee, milk and sugar no doubt.

Some people run out of tea, coffee, milk or sugar because they don't have any money.

It's a bit daft of someone who runs out of tea, coffee, milk or sugar when they have plenty of money.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:30 pm

In the Edith Watson maternity unit at BGH yesterday a small baby boy with ginger hair and stubble emerged from his mother reading the Rothmans football year book just as the space shuttle flew overhead in the night sky.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:32 pm

Tarkowski was signed to play alongside Keane I think when it became obvious Duff was no longer up to playing every week. The emergence of Ben Mee as a regular at centre half meant Tarkowski had to be content with a place on the bench.

Now Keane has gone some 18 months later, it follows that we needed another centre half to replace him, whether that be as an immediate starter or someone to push the starters and cover injuries and suspensions. You might say Kevin Long is that man, but he's hardly had a kick in nearly 8 years with us and hasn't looked like a convincing PL defender at all IMO.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:37 pm

For those that believe he was signed with forward planning.

Just consider, Mee was playing left back until after the Hull debacle on Boxing Day (and many by then wanted Ward to replace him). Dyche had shown no desire to play Mee at CB (except in Newcastle esq emergencies) prior to then. It was only the realisation that Duff was past it and we needed a change in form that jolted him into some much needed action. Add to that then that the Tarkowski approaches were well underway by the time we played Brentford (Tarks refused to play) early/mid January and at this point Mee was still relatively unproven at CB in a side chasing promotion.

If when considering all that people still believe Tarks was forward planning by 18 months to replace Keane and that Dyche has foreseen Mee playing to the standard he has, why on earth is anyone questioning his judgement on trusting Long.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:46 pm

KlyBfc wrote: If when considering all that people still believe Tarks was forward planning by 18 months to replace Keane and that Dyche has foreseen Mee playing to the standard he has, why on earth is anyone questioning his judgement on trusting Long.

Why on earth do some people on this board not see the need for the same forward planning now?

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:48 pm

I'm still waiting for us to replace John Deary.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:48 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Some people run out of tea, coffee, milk or sugar because they don't have any money.

It's a bit daft of someone who runs out of tea, coffee, milk or sugar when they have plenty of money.

That doesn't mean they are poor planners.

If you amongst others believe in a system that dictates one out, one in then fine but the Club obviously conducts it's business differently.

The Club will have bought Tarkowski as part of a long term plan with an eye on Keane leaving. Kevin Long had been injured so we only had 3 CB's before anyway.
Without trawling back through endless threads, from memory most people said this when he arrived as well.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:50 pm

James Tarkowski has started the first 3 PL games and also started and captained the side in the LC win at Blackburn.

So he has replaced Michael Keane. It is not difficult to understand.

Anyone thinking we were going to sign a starting CB were stupid. Yes you. You're stupid!

He captained the side that won at Ewood that I've already mentioned! Would Sean have give him the armband if he was looking to replace him? Nah.
Would James himself be happy at waiting his turn, starting the season in fine form them dropped to the bench again? Nah.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:51 pm

It depends how you look at it. If Wood comes into the side and Vokes is left out, you could argue that Wood has replaced Vokes; or you could argue that (since Vokes is still here) he hasn't replaced Vokes, he's replaced Agyei who left at about the same time as Wood arrived.

KippaxFifaHD · Post by **KippaxFifaHD** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:52 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Tarkowski was signed to play alongside Keane I think when it became obvious Duff was no longer up to playing every week. The emergence of Ben Mee as a regular at centre half meant Tarkowski had to be content with a place on the bench.

You're forgetting that we signed Tarkowski when we were ALREADY playing Keane and Mee as a centre back pairing with Ward at left back. This is only his second full season with us.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:55 pm

Surely Tarky replaced Duff

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:56 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Surely Tarky replaced Duff

Some of them won't have it my man.

Slurpy · Post by **Slurpy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:56 pm

Rumour is Sean Dyche plans to register himself as our 4th choice centre half

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:57 pm

dsr wrote:It depends how you look at it. If Wood comes into the side and Vokes is left out, you could argue that Wood has replaced Vokes; or you could argue that (since Vokes is still here) he hasn't replaced Vokes, he's replaced Agyei who left at about the same time as Wood arrived.

And we never replaced Austin as Ings was already here but when he left Gray came so did he replaced Austin and Woods replaced Gray. Or did Woods replace Juke who came in but Sordell went and Vokes was still here.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Surely Tarky replaced Duff

Who did Duff replace.. do you reckon we could trace this right back to 1882. And still remember what the point was by the time we did.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:02 pm

I think the big thing with this is that people are mixing up that Tark has become Keanes replacement in his time here ...... But not SIGNED as his replacement.

We signed Tark - and at the time he couldnt break through to the first team regularly.

Down the line a little and with coaching and being schooled into our framework - Tark has now become good enough to earn his 1st team spot.

Just remember - Tark was signed as a back up and has then earnt a spot in the first team ....... So now we have a starting CB who started out as a back up - So we can either look now for somebody to become a starting CB and sign them and have 3 CBs in a system that needs 2.

Or we can look to sign another player of the Tark mould where he will come in as back up and learn and improve and then earn his starting spot.

There aren't many CBs that will come in and be happy to sit on the bench and learn unless theyre young and hungry - and they few that are out there will cost more than we'd want to pay. .....then players such as Dawson etc wont be bothered about "oh but you get to play in the Prem" as they have already done it and won't have any prospects of playing international football etc... They'll be happy earning same wages we pay and seeing their career out where they are rather than relocating or changing their/their fanilies routines again.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:02 pm

dsr wrote:It depends how you look at it. If Wood comes into the side and Vokes is left out, you could argue that Wood has replaced Vokes; or you could argue that (since Vokes is still here) he hasn't replaced Vokes, he's replaced Agyei who left at about the same time as Wood arrived.

And what does that have to do with anything on this thread?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:03 pm

Duff replaced, er, West?

Possibly

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:03 pm

tarkowski was signed to play in the first team..

keane left and created a space.

ideally we'd have signed another tarkowski.

Zesty · Post by **Zesty** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:10 pm

Who's replaced Tarky then?

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:10 pm

I am really looking forward to the Palace game when the multitudes of disgruntled fans express their displeasure at the failure of the Board and the Manager to satisfy their expectations during the transfer window.

I can just visualise 'Garlick and Dyche Out' banners and placards spoiling my view.

Or can I....

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:11 pm

Zesty wrote:Who's replaced Tarky then?

Tark doesn't need a replacement - he is well hard.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:12 pm

Zesty wrote:Who's replaced Tarky then?

It looks like Taylor has.

A genuine left back who's yet to play in the Premier League even at left back.

Zesty · Post by **Zesty** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It looks like Taylor has.

A genuine left back who's yet to play in the Premier League even at left back.

Exactly, ridiculous.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:15 pm

Mitchell Thomas was Keanes replacement.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:19 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It looks like Taylor has.

A genuine left back who's yet to play in the Premier League even at left back.

Maybe Taylor is our original LBs replacement and Mee will be off soon?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:20 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Maybe Taylor is our originL LBs replacement and Mee will be off soon?

You've just frazzled my brain.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:22 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:I thought that was obvious to everyone, but clearly it isn't.

Thats right. It isn't.

Cos its quite clearly not the case. We planned ahead, we knew Keane was likely to move onto bigger and better things, so we made a plan. That plan has now been executed. We will see how Tarka adapts and progresses in this league, and we will either get in back up for him come January, or we will buy a first team CB if Tarka isn't quite up to the demands of this league.

You don't get that Tarky is Keanes replacement. You not getting it doesn't mean its not a fact. It just means it's YOU that doesn't get it.

We won't be relegated by January. Tarka has earned his crack at it, SD has earned our trust in letting him (and Tarka) get on with it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:22 pm

Are you all stupid?

Tarky was signed to play the centre midfield holding role, remember we have never really replaced Grezza!
Fortunately we stumbled on Jack Cork, and by a bit of luck we've discovered he's OK in that role,by the same bit of good fortune we've been able to use Tarky as a makeshift centre-back.
Don't you just love a happy accident?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:23 pm

You could look at this way: Frank Sinclair left and Steven Caldwell came in but then Frank wasn't playing at that point but Steven Caldwell did play so did he replace Sinclair or did he replace, say, Wayne Thomas? If so, did Clarke Carlisle replace Wayne Thomas or did he replace John McGreal?

Shall I go on, or is all this a load of nonsense that dances around the issue of us being short at CB?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:26 pm

ksrclaret wrote:You could look at this way: Frank Sinclair left and Steven Caldwell came in but then Frank wasn't playing at that point but Steven Caldwell did play so did he replace Sinclair or did he replace, say, Wayne Thomas? If so, did Clarke Carlisle replace Wayne Thomas or did he replace John McGreal?

Shall I go on, or is all this a load of nonsense that dances around the issue of us being short at CB?

We currently have too many CBs I think. We only need 2 so Dyche could have helped the club more by getting rid of another CB and saving/making us some money.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:27 pm

bobinho wrote:Thats right. It isn't.

Cos its quite clearly not the case. We planned ahead, we knew Keane was likely to move onto bigger and better things, so we made a plan.

Nice try.

Today's word of the day is - hindsight

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:31 pm

bobinho wrote:Thats right. It isn't.

Cos its quite clearly not the case. We planned ahead, we knew Keane was likely to move onto bigger and better things, so we made a plan. That plan has now been executed. We will see how Tarka adapts and progresses in this league, and we will either get in back up for him come January, or we will buy a first team CB if Tarka isn't quite up to the demands of this league.

You don't get that Tarky is Keanes replacement. You not getting it doesn't mean its not a fact. It just means it's YOU that doesn't get it.

We won't be relegated by January. Tarka has earned his crack at it, SD has earned our trust in letting him (and Tarka) get on with it.

Can you explain the master plan that has left us with 3 CBs and 2 of them were awful when played together last season.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:34 pm

Tarks was signed when we were floating around the play off places in the Chanpionship so if there was forward planning involved it is more logical he was signed to replace Duff to help push for promotion and if we failed to go up he would be a good proven Championship replacement for Keane who would have always been likely to leave had we not got promoted.

If you look at things objectively Tarks is unproven at this level and there is as much chance of him struggling as there is as him doing well and Long is unproven at any level from a first team perspective.

As for Taylor posters get laughed at for suggestions such as Darwikwa at Right Wing, Tarks in Midfield and even playng Taylor as a Left winger but all of a sudden Taylor is accepted as an adequate CB cover just because we are woefully short in that area

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:41 pm

I must admit I thought Tarkowski was signed to take the place of Keane when he was to leave, unless he could get in the team ahead of Keane or Mee beforehand. Just in the same way Ings was signed to eventually take the place of Jay-Rod or Austin.

Assumed it was the way we operated and didn't mind it.
Hopefully nothing backfires this season, we don't get any injuries and the players we have are capable.
I still don't know on Long, but in January I'd hope we do sign 'the next' and if we can get an experienced player in as well then brilliant.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:42 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Who's the clairvoyant at Burnley FC then?

Tarky signs for Burnley - January 16
Keane leaves Burnley - July 17

I presume there was some sort of thought for the future with the signing of Tarky, but there isn't any now that we're in the Premier League?

For what its worth, I read the situation differently, I have always assumed that Tarkowski was signed in mid January 2016 as a replacement for Keane leaving in the summer of 2016 if we failed to gain promotion.

We were still some way off the promotion places when we went in for him and he downed tools at Brentford, Mee had only just replaced Duff at CB.

Then we went on a great run and won the league and Tarkowski had to spend 18 months as back up and not six..

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:48 pm

levraiclaret wrote:For what its worth, I read the situation differently, I have always assumed that Tarkowski was signed in mid January 2016 as a replacement for Keane leaving in the summer of 2016 if we failed to gain promotion. .

That's about right, I think.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:51 pm

levraiclaret wrote:For what its worth, I read the situation differently, I have always assumed that Tarkowski was signed in mid January 2016 as a replacement for Keane leaving in the summer of 2016 if we failed to gain promotion.

Even though I still think Tarky was brought in because Duff was ready for the knackers yard and we only had Keane and Mee (fit), it's actually fairly sensible and plausible what you have posted.

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:02 pm

Whilst we are blowing minds, how come Ben Mee played god knows how long at left back when we signed him from City he was a CB and then we play him at Left Back for ages and ages and then one day he remorfed into a CB truly amazing stuff happens at Gawthorpe....

BabylonClaret · Post by **BabylonClaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:11 pm

Its not hard. Tarks was brought in to back up and challenge fir a starting role. Now Keane has left he steps up.

The issue is whether we have enough back up. Arguabky we dont but we would have to be really unlucky to have to fit Bardsley or Taylor into the centre for more than 1 or 2 odd occasions across rhe season.

Its not the same as the cm fiasco when we only had 2 specialist cm at the club. If we didnt have Long it would be the same.

Its still a risk because we are assuming that Long is caoable of stepping up for a series of games if required but i guess Dyche thinks he can. I expect the Long-Tarks games helped him assess that. We just have to trust his judgement here. Our back line is nonworse really than when Keane first started plating regularly because Duff was clearly strugglimg at prem level so really.

Our failurr to agree on Lennon is more disappointing as we have no cover for Arfield as a rm (unless Hendrick or Defour can slot in there) - i know we have Brady amd jbg but they are both lefties