Gay and a claret? me too!

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claretburns
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by claretburns » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:00 pm

I support for the LBGTQ community but one question, if someone was to start a straight supporters club, what would your view be?

2 Bee Holed
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:00 pm

As per some other posters, why a different supporters club?
It's 2017.
I wonder what the response would be if I were to enquire about
setting up a male only supporters club?

Blackrod
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Blackrod » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:01 pm

Disabled supporters groups have to exist as they have quite clear needs. I agree that is a ridiculous comparison. Any groups formed on the basis of religion, sexual orientation or race as far as I am aware have to be all inclusive so that everyone is welcome which then defeats the objective of having a separate identity. A female Jewish supporters group would need to welcome male Christians and Muslims. A white heterosexual male supporters group would need to invite females, gays and other non white races and so on.

RocketLawnChair
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by RocketLawnChair » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:02 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:As per some other posters, why a different supporters club?
It's 2017.
I wonder what the response would be if I were to enquire about
setting up a male only supporters club?
You could meet by the small snooker table in the Miners !

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:02 pm

claretburns wrote:I support for the LBGTQ community but one question, if someone was to start a straight supporters club, what would your view be?
That'd be even more stupid. Has anyone in history ever been oppressed for their heterosexuality? Has anyone ever truely felt the need to come out as straight?

RalphCoatesComb
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:03 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:I wonder what the response would be if I were to enquire about
setting up a male only supporters club?
You'd soon be drummed out the Women's toilets for that one !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by RocketLawnChair » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:04 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:That'd be even more stupid. Has anyone in history ever been oppressed for their heterosexuality? Has anyone ever truely felt the need to come out as straight?
Cliff Richard
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dsr
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:04 pm

How about an adulterers' supporters club? People have been oppressed for that! :twisted:

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Wile E Coyote » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:05 pm

seems wholly unecessary to set yourselves apart as a seperate entity within a football club, why should this be an issue that requires a "group"
Its just about going on the Turf to support Burnley for all of us.
There could be a myriad of things and individual preferences we all have, that doesn't mean we need to organise collectively.
I wouldnt have anything in common with a lot of posters on here, but I dont feel a need to set up a private club to ensure only people who agree with me can sit together, if i did that I would be sat on my own on matchdays.
Its almost akin to politicising being a fan, I dont think its a valid reason.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Blackrod » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:06 pm

Sue Barker
Jordan Henderson

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:06 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Sorry, but that's a ridiculous comment and does you no favours at all. Accy Clarets run coach travel so that one's pretty obvious and the disabled group, who have special needs, have been set up and are helping the club in determining what's needed at the ground.
Badly worded and explained I'll take... ridiculous, I'd disagree with. The explanation actually links in to another question I was asked.
ClaretCliff wrote:I think the reason people are not 100% behind this is that it is not obvious what the purpose is, apart from gays trying to promote their sexual preferences. (sincerely hope I've worded that correctly, I have absolutely no intention of upsetting anyone - just trying to add to the debate).

You reference Accy Clarets supporters club and disabilities supporters club and appear to be grouping an LGBT supporters group. But there is a big difference. Accy Clarets exists to organise tickets & travel to away games. I am sure they offer the same benefits to the LGBT community, whether knowingly or not. The disabilities supporters group does, I guess, work with the club to provide better facilities for disabled supporters who struggle with the non-disabled facilities. again, I would not think there is any discrimination in the group between LGBT and others.

I think supporters can see the point of these clubs and hence the lack of resistance. If you could come up with a good reason to have a LGBT supporters club, then I think others will see a benefit - if not then you are struggling to get the idea across.

Just for the record, I am not LGBT, I am not disabled and I do not use the services of Accy Clarets.
I've been reluctant to explain what I would want from an LGBTQ+ supporters club because when setting up anything like this the aims and objectives are set collectively, so while I have things I would like to see I can't ensure that they would end up being the official aims or standpoint of such a club (if one even ever starts)

Personally I would love to see a supporters club that does arrange travel to away games, if you believe that every single member of any supporters club would be a'ok with two gay male clarets holding hands, maybe even sharing a kiss in a moment of celebration, well not only are you more positive about the general populous then I am but you have obviously never been witness or subjected to homophobia. (for me it's the less intrusive but still unsettling 'woah love, you gonna let us watch.'

If you've never cringed but felt that you can't speak up and say something about someone being called a faggot for *plucks example out of the air* wanting wine, or diet coke instead of a beer, then great, you are in a better place then I am.

Varying LGBTQ+ supporters clubs across the country have worked towards providing equality training for match staff, helping to create a safe and understanding environment for people to report homophobic abuse, I would hope, if anything like this gets of the ground, that would be one of the aims too.

boatshed bill
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:12 pm

Alice, can't you and your fellow LGTB (whatever) fellow fans just go and enjoy the game for what it is, no agendas, no minority groups?

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Sausage » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:13 pm

Surely the point of a LBGTQ Clarets club is to encourage those people who have had bad experiences at Turf Moor (or wherever) not to give up watching but to seek solace in the fact they’re not on their own. It doesn’t need to have an agenda to promote; if its sole purpose is to allow like-minded Burnley fans to socialise without fear of being judged, laughed at, provoked or whispered about, then it’s fine by me.

Alice - go for it!
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:13 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Badly worded and explained I'll take... ridiculous, I'd disagree with. The explanation actually links in to another question I was asked.



I've been reluctant to explain what I would want from an LGBTQ+ supporters club because when setting up anything like this the aims and objectives are set collectively, so while I have things I would like to see I can't ensure that they would end up being the official aims or standpoint of such a club (if one even ever starts)

Personally I would love to see a supporters club that does arrange travel to away games, if you believe that every single member of any supporters club would be a'ok with two gay male clarets holding hands, maybe even sharing a kiss in a moment of celebration, well not only are you more positive about the general populous then I am but you have obviously never been witness or subjected to homophobia. (for me it's the less intrusive but still unsettling 'woah love, you gonna let us watch.'

If you've never cringed but felt that you can't speak up and say something about someone being called a faggot for *plucks example out of the air* wanting wine, or diet coke instead of a beer, then great, you are in a better place then I am.

Varying LGBTQ+ supporters clubs across the country have worked towards providing equality training for match staff, helping to create a safe and understanding environment for people to report homophobic abuse, I would hope, if anything like this gets of the ground, that would be one of the aims too.

You need to at least explain why such a club needs to exist if you expect people to support it. We all know why a supporters club for the disabled exist, it's because collectively advocating for better disabled access and consessions is easier. We all know why Accy Clarets needs to exist, it's because they can't be trusted to make their own way to a football ground. You need to set out your rationale for thinking that an LGBTQ+ supporters' club needs to exist. And you also can't expect other people to explain what they would expect such a club to acheive if you can't or won't offer your own ideas

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by NRC » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:14 pm

Tony, I added the extension about the USA Clarets before I saw your response. That you had responded doesn't mean I had seen it.

Anyway it doesn't matter.........

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We all know why Accy Clarets needs to exist, it's because they can't be trusted to make their own way to a football ground
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You need to at least explain why such a club needs to exist if you expect people to support it. We all know why a supporters club for the disabled exist, it's because collectively advocating for better disabled access and consessions is easier. We all know why Accy Clarets needs to exist, it's because they can't be trusted to make their own way to a football ground. You need to set out your rationale for thinking that an LGBTQ+ supporters' club needs to exist. And you also can't expect other people to explain what they would expect such a club to acheive if you can't or won't offer your own ideas
But at that point I had... In the long reply that you quoted...

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:18 pm

Straight and a claret? Me too!

Not really relevant I know but thought I would put it out there.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:23 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We all know why Accy Clarets needs to exist, it's because they can't be trusted to make their own way to a football ground.
No, it's because they're saving the planet by vehicle-sharing. (What a shame buses run off diesel.)

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by DCWat » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:25 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Badly worded and explained I'll take... ridiculous, I'd disagree with. The explanation actually links in to another question I was asked.



I've been reluctant to explain what I would want from an LGBTQ+ supporters club because when setting up anything like this the aims and objectives are set collectively, so while I have things I would like to see I can't ensure that they would end up being the official aims or standpoint of such a club (if one even ever starts)

Personally I would love to see a supporters club that does arrange travel to away games, if you believe that every single member of any supporters club would be a'ok with two gay male clarets holding hands, maybe even sharing a kiss in a moment of celebration, well not only are you more positive about the general populous then I am but you have obviously never been witness or subjected to homophobia. (for me it's the less intrusive but still unsettling 'woah love, you gonna let us watch.'

If you've never cringed but felt that you can't speak up and say something about someone being called a faggot for *plucks example out of the air* wanting wine, or diet coke instead of a beer, then great, you are in a better place then I am.

Varying LGBTQ+ supporters clubs across the country have worked towards providing equality training for match staff, helping to create a safe and understanding environment for people to report homophobic abuse, I would hope, if anything like this gets of the ground, that would be one of the aims too.
Inclusion isn't created by creating exclusive clubs.

Plenty won't mind such a group and will appreciate the need for it. I suspect though that it will only serve to further alienate those that might hold less tolerant views and unfortunately, it's these people that you really need to change, not the more forward thinking.

A group that is tolerant of two men kissing in a moment of celebration is an odd suggestion. Gay, straight or whatever that's not the way to celebrate a bloody goal :)
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diamondpocket
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by diamondpocket » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:26 pm

sounds like you wanna set up a coach for the homosexuals to have a safe and non derogatory place to get it on; go for it if you feel more comfortable in society but one question, can heterosexuals be part of the group?

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Sidney1st » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:26 pm

RalphCoatesComb wrote:You'd soon be drummed out the Women's toilets for that one !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Again?

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:26 pm

AliceDevine wrote:
I've been reluctant to explain what I would want from an LGBTQ+ supporters club because when setting up anything like this the aims and objectives are set collectively, so while I have things I would like to see I can't ensure that they would end up being the official aims or standpoint of such a club (if one even ever starts)

Personally I would love to see a supporters club that does arrange travel to away games, if you believe that every single member of any supporters club would be a'ok with two gay male clarets holding hands, maybe even sharing a kiss in a moment of celebration, well not only are you more positive about the general populous then I am but you have obviously never been witness or subjected to homophobia. (for me it's the less intrusive but still unsettling 'woah love, you gonna let us watch.'

If you've never cringed but felt that you can't speak up and say something about someone being called a faggot for *plucks example out of the air* wanting wine, or diet coke instead of a beer, then great, you are in a better place then I am.

Varying LGBTQ+ supporters clubs across the country have worked towards providing equality training for match staff, helping to create a safe and understanding environment for people to report homophobic abuse, I would hope, if anything like this gets of the ground, that would be one of the aims too.


This is the reason you should do it. You are right, if two gay men held hands there is a fair chance a ****** up kn0bhead would take the pi55 and make them feel uncomfortable.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:27 pm

AliceDevine wrote:But at that point I had... In the long reply that you quoted...
I should have added "that isn't better provided for in other supporters clubs". And if people are being homophobic or harassing you as members of a supporters club then i would expect that behaviour to be in breach of whatever set of rules they have. If it's not then fair enough. If you complain and nothing is done then fair enough. But if you haven't complained then you need to. But i'm not sure having yourselves segregated from the rest of us is the best way towards having more people stop caring that you're LGBTQ.

If you want to set up a supporters club then please do it. The more the better and good luck.
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by halfmanhalfbiscuit » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:29 pm

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40846848" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:32 pm

NRC wrote:I'm appalled at the pushback on this in that an LGBTQ group somehow has less of a purpose than others...... so long as it is open to others and not a card-holding club.

Alice's reference to why treat Accy Clarets or Disabled Clarets with some level of tacit approval is spot on. They each, as has been subsequently pointed out, serve a purpose, and so would an LGBTQ - a self-identity, a camaraderie, an ability to not feel alone, and be able to discuss issues beyond the Clarets, knowing the commonality in the Claret Clan is in place.

I, as do others, belong to USA Clarets. We never meet, we don't get together to buy tickets or travel, we don't collectively sit in the rain in wheelchairs, but we have a common identity. Why should LGBTQ be any different?
I'll answer the question the same way. I'm not a member of the North American Clarets, I don't see the point. I want everyone to be inclusive, the world is divisive enough as it is. We don't need 100 supporters groups because you'll end up with the "ours is better than yours mentality" as already happens, BUT if you or anyone feels the need to set one up then good luck to you.

Alice, I know and have worked closely with dozens of gay people in the music industry and I don't know a single one of them that belongs to a specific LGBT club. Sure, they post stuff on facebook because they are proud of what they are and I've asked many of them why they feel the need to do that and not one has given me a sensible answer. If you sit at a football match and somebody says something that offends you then report it. It's 2017, if I sat next to someone who was a racist or bigot I would report them to the senior stewards, there is no place for it. Creating a group isn't in any way shape or form going to change the opinion of the idiots who can't pronounce their own name and it won't change the opinion of those who already accept people regardless of race, religion or sexual preference.

I genuinely wish you good luck with your group though

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Lord Beamish » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:36 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Straight and a claret? Me too!

Not really relevant I know but thought I would put it out there.
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much!
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:39 pm

The reason I can see this being worth while is because they can act themselves when going to away games. If a gay man is camp he may feel the need to hide this when travelling with other non-gay Burnley fans who might turn into a bigot after a few pints. I have been with accy clarets and Rossendale clarets. I know what its like after a few beers. It gets rowdy. It only takes one idiot to spoil the day

Before away games many supporters groups stop off at a working mens club somewhere outside the town/city we are playing. I would imagine that some gay men may feel uncomfortable holding hands in a working men's club because some pi55ed up bigot might say something.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:43 pm

This article was one of my reasons for contemplating the idea.

Although apparently we already have an LGBTQ Supporters Club (or the beeb don't think we are in the Premier League)

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Leisure » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote: We all know why Accy Clarets needs to exist, it's because they can't be trusted to make their own way to a football ground.
So true in most cases! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:49 pm

Inchy wrote:The reason I can see this being worth while is because they can act themselves when going to away games. If a gay man is camp he may feel the need to hide this when travelling with other non-gay Burnley fans who might turn into a bigot after a few pints. I have been with accy clarets and Rossendale clarets. I know what its like after a few beers. It gets rowdy. It only takes one idiot to spoil the day

Before away games many supporters groups stop off at a working mens club somewhere outside the town/city we are playing. I would imagine that some gay men may feel uncomfortable holding hands in a working men's club because some pi55ed up bigot might say something.
Inchy, I understand your sentiment, but unless it becomes the norm (as it is the norm) then sexuality/race/religion will always be a divisive thing. I genuinely cannot get to grips with a mentality that is offended by a couple of people and values there opinion more than that of the thousands of others who have got their back and support them. The thought process is all backwards.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by LawsCanalJump » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:53 pm

I agree with Inchy
Only takes one P1sshead to make some stupid comments and cause a problem
A coach where you know you will be comfortable whatever your sexuality may appeal to more people

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Inchy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:54 pm

Yes but it is a thought process that does exist.

No matter what some morons will always have a problem with homosexuality. If this club allows gay people to feel more comfortable then they should do it. I might join I bet they would go to more interesting pubs beforehand than the other supporters groups

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:58 pm

yeah but that's the point Inchy, if the thousand all pointed the finger at the knobheads then it would be them that would be made to leave not others - the thought process in dealing with the issue is backwards. It's up to us sensible and compassionate ones to start pointing fingers and get the idiots kicked out and banned.

Also, if we had more gay people we might have better songs at the Turf and people who appreciate the importance of not speed singing :lol: :D

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by halfmanhalfbiscuit » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:02 pm

A couple of the questions that have come up.

Why can’t we all just stand together and support Burnley ?

We can, but it’s better to stand with your mates...yeah!

Why do they need a seperate group ?

It’s not a seperate group, it’s just another group.
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Lord Beamish
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Lord Beamish » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Also, if we had more gay people we might have better songs at the Turf and people who appreciate the importance of not speed singing :lol: :D
Aye. Everyone knows that the Gays have more natural rhythm.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by DCWat » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:04 pm

LawsCanalJump wrote:I agree with Inchy
Only takes one P1sshead to make some stupid comments and cause a problem
A coach where you know you will be comfortable whatever your sexuality may appeal to more people
Do we have a women's supporters club, out of interest?

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:06 pm

Why segregate yourself into a label?

You are a claret, just like the rest of us. You or anyone else being gay should not matter here nor there.

Unless of course you are just cleverly trying to meet a few like minded lads/lasses (as appropriate for OP) ;) In which case, cunning move sir.
Last edited by ClaretMoffitt on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Damo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Perhaps the OP could help us understand what she hopes such a supporters' club would acheive.
Please tell me you didn't just assume the OP's gender?

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:10 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:yeah but that's the point Inchy, if the thousand all pointed the finger at the knobheads then it would be them that would be made to leave not others - the thought process in dealing with the issue is backwards. It's up to us sensible and compassionate ones to start pointing fingers and get the idiots kicked out and banned.

Also, if we had more gay people we might have better songs at the Turf and people who appreciate the importance of not speed singing :lol: :D
Ah but then we get the bystander effect. None of those thousands of people do anything because they all assume someone else will do it. I hope, if nothing else this thread has made you think about speaking up next time you hear someone use a slur such as 'dyke, faggot, queer' or refer to something that they don't like as 'gay'. As someone from the Tottenham LGBT supporters club says, I'd like to see a day where they don't have to or need to exist, because there aren't issues to be addressed.

Just hearing one straight man, stand up to another and object to their language would lighten my heart more then you can imagine.

As for better songs, I'll totally conform to stereotypes and sing some musical theatre numbers!
Last edited by AliceDevine on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by NRC » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:13 pm

The travelling bus notion from inchy (I think) is one instance of a benefit. Another is that as a group it's more able to lobby for the application of rights/charter per the club (non-discriminatory) as a group than it is as an individual - it's called lobbying, and is best illustrated by the disabled group - it helps with progression. Multiple voices better than one.

I still don't get the agnostic positioning aimed at this community. How about Asian Supporters? I'd support that. Would y'all equally say to Mohammed "don't see why you feel the need, mate" - if it makes the participants have a better sense of belonging, then why not. It's ok to subscribe to sub-groups as well as the generic clan. And if other clubs have such groups and they're successful, why do we feel the need to somehow deny that by saying it will alienate

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:16 pm

Damo wrote:Please tell me you didn't just assume the OP's gender?
Could have. But benefit of the doubt could have also seen that I've said I'm a bi woman elsewhere.

But thanks, you're correct, gender neutral would have been a better option.
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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Hipper » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:18 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Plenty of clubs now have an LGBTQ+ supporters club and they have found it's lead to greater inclusion.
What do you mean by 'greater inclusion' in relation to supporting a football club and how did they achieve this?

Edit - you may have answered this above!
Last edited by Hipper on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:20 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Ah but then we get the bystander effect. None of those thousands of people do anything because they all assume someone else will do it. I hope, if nothing else this thread has made you think about speaking up next time you hear someone use a slur such as 'dyke, faggot, queer' or refer to something that they don't like as 'gay'. As someone from the Tottenham LGBT supporters club says, I'd like to see a day where they don't have to or need to exist, because there aren't issues to be addressed.

Just hearing one straight man, stand up to another and object to their language would lighten my heart more then you can imagine.

As for better songs, I'll totally conform to stereotypes and sing some musical theatre numbers!
I have done and always would do. I've had people kicked out for being racist too as it happens. I cannot be doing with it, the world has enough issues without fucktards being worried about the colour of skin or if a man kisses a man

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by BurnleyPaul » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:21 pm

Alice- go for it.

Nothing wrong with having another supporters group and your ideas have, as you, I and those at the club in positions of authority know, validity and are a necessary and legitimate part of the way forward for the club in its attempts to be inclusive to all our fans.

To those who're against this can I just ask you a question- if this was a BAME (black and minority ethnic) supporters club which was being proposed as a group for those who self identify with such a 'label' would you still be against it? Would you still be saying that there's no need for a "safe space" for those who wish it and that they should be forced to join in with the official supporters club or one of the clubs based around locality? Probably not because of the risk of being accused of being racist and discriminatory towards a group of people who regularly face discrimination and harassment. Well in the eyes of the law sexual discrimination has as much weight, and is as much of a crime, as racial discrimination so if you wouldn't refuse something for race then you shouldn't refuse it based on somebody's sexual preference.

If LGBTQ+ fans want this club then it should happen and the football club should do whatever it can to help support it.

Just my thoughts anyway.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Good luck Alice

I wondered why there was such a hoohaa over John Lewis's recently announced plans. Reading some replies answers that one for me.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by AliceDevine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:26 pm

Hipper wrote:What do you mean by 'greater inclusion' in relation to supporting a football club and how did they achieve this?
There is the article by the BBC that was mentioned earlier. Research and studies on both PrideInFootball and KickItOut

Articles like this from sky sports touches on the differences made.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... is-weekend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Good luck Alice

I wondered why there was such a hoohaa over John Lewis's recently announced plans. Reading some replies answers that one for me.

It's funny you should mention that because i've literally just finished listening to this.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/j ... rrectness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by HatfieldClaret » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:28 pm

In all seriousness, I just don't see why it would be a problem for some.

Good luck to you all in the LGBTQ, I hope the club supports the idea.

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Re: Gay and a claret? me too!

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:29 pm

BurnleyPaul wrote:Alice- go for it.

Nothing wrong with having another supporters group and your ideas have, as you, I and those at the club in positions of authority know, validity and are a necessary and legitimate part of the way forward for the club in its attempts to be inclusive to all our fans.

To those who're against this can I just ask you a question- if this was a BAME (black and minority ethnic) supporters club which was being proposed as a group for those who self identify with such a 'label' would you still be against it? Would you still be saying that there's no need for a "safe space" for those who wish it and that they should be forced to join in with the official supporters club or one of the clubs based around locality? Probably not because of the risk of being accused of being racist and discriminatory towards a group of people who regularly face discrimination and harassment. Well in the eyes of the law sexual discrimination has as much weight, and is as much of a crime, as racial discrimination so if you wouldn't refuse something for race then you shouldn't refuse it based on somebody's sexual preference.

If LGBTQ+ fans want this club then it should happen and the football club should do whatever it can to help support it.

Just my thoughts anyway.
Or indeed a "whites only" group. One of the problems with clubs restricted to certain groups is that it's very hard to prevent other, more offensively minded, groups springing up. If the existing supporters' clubs are full of anti-gay, bi, trans, queer, les, and plus people, then there's a bigger problem than can be solved by forming a new club. Wouldn't it be more use for Alice and a few of her friends (I would always tend to assume people called Alice are female, which in this case is apparently correct) to join an existing club, not to proselytize, but just to be there as people?
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