Gay and a claret? me too!

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:45 pm

AliceDevine wrote:I almost did... but I thought I would leave the door open for someone else... I am rather partial to sausage

Leave me out of it.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:42 pm

AliceDevine wrote:I almost did... but I thought I would leave the door open for someone else... I am rather partial to sausage

If only I'd seen this comment earlier on....the fun I could have had!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:33 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:If the pubs were still open that's unacceptable behavior

I beg forgiveness!

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:23 pm

Sausage?
Has this thread been a waste of everyone's time?

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:04 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:Sausage?
Has this thread been a waste of everyone's time?

Is that aimed at me?

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:03 am

AliceDevine wrote:Is that aimed at me?

Nope.
I learned many years ago never to aim a sausage at anyone
you don't know.

From an intelligent beginning this thread descended into sausages.
I suppose by my continuing to post on that theme I am perpetuating it.
So I will stop now, despite my love of sausage too.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:50 am

Many heterosexuals find the constant sexual innuendos made by a significant number of the gay community quite tiresome. It's often doesn't help their cause when the want others to take them seriously.

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:01 am

Blackrod wrote:Many heterosexuals find the constant sexual innuendos made by a significant number of the gay community quite tiresome. It's often doesn't help their cause when the want others to take them seriously.

Cause heterosexuals never make sexual innuendo? You are having a laugh right? I've worked in an industry that means that almost all of my colleagues have always been men, most of them straight. (I'm trying to think if there has been anyone I've worked directly with, in my field, in the last 20 years that is gay) but I'll tell you something, the innuendo that is thrown about is almost constant, they can twist pretty much everything.

Do you find all sexual innuendo tiresome, or just when you know it's been said by someone who is gay?

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:08 am

Last time a woman asked me for an innuendo, I gave her one.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:10 am

I personally find it all tiresome. My post mentioned 'many heterosexuals' not me.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:11 am

AliceDevine wrote:Cause heterosexuals never make sexual innuendo? You are having a laugh right? I've worked in an industry that means that almost all of my colleagues have always been men, most of them straight. (I'm trying to think if there has been anyone I've worked directly with, in my field, in the last 20 years that is gay) but I'll tell you something, the innuendo that is thrown about is almost constant, they can twist pretty much everything.

Do you find all sexual innuendo tiresome, or just when you know it's been said by someone who is gay?

What person, regardless of gender profile, doesn't love a bit of innuendo!

I find the greatest laughs to be had are with gay people (as innuendo amongst friends who happen to be gay)

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:33 pm

I must say I think a Gay Supporters Club is a terrible idea. Supporting a football club is a completely inclusive thing, or it certainly should be. We should be able to discuss Burnley Football Club with anyone and everyone, regardless of colour, gender or sexual orientation. In my opinion having a Gay Supporters Club totally undermines all the good work being done by the Kick It Out campaign.

The point of the Kick It Out campaign is to promote inclusiveness and tackle racism / other prejudices. So where do we go after we have a Gay Supporters Club? Do we follow that up with a Supporters of Black Origin Club? Maybe a Women Only Club? Or a White Heterosexual Men Only Club? Isn't it pretty much the opposite of what we're trying to achieve as a society? I think the idea is born out of good intentions, I just think it's a little misguided.

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:44 pm

jlup1980 wrote:I must say I think a Gay Supporters Club is a terrible idea. Supporting a football club is a completely inclusive thing, or it certainly should be. We should be able to discuss Burnley Football Club with anyone and everyone, regardless of colour, gender or sexual orientation. In my opinion having a Gay Supporters Club totally undermines all the good work being done by the Kick It Out campaign.

The point of the Kick It Out campaign is to promote inclusiveness and tackle racism / other prejudices. So where do we go after we have a Gay Supporters Club? Do we follow that up with a Supporters of Black Origin Club? Maybe a Women Only Club? Or a White Heterosexual Men Only Club? Isn't it pretty much the opposite of what we're trying to achieve as a society? I think the idea is born out of good intentions, I just think it's a little misguided.

As quoted from the kickitout website

Kick It Out is also a supporter of the GFSN Fangroup Coalition (GFSN FC) which acts as an umbrella organisation for LGBT+ football supporters’ clubs throughout the United Kingdom.

Furthermore, through the Fans For Diversity campaign, Kick It Out played a leading role in helping to establish Pride in Football, another key alliance group for LGBT+ football supporters clubs.

As I have stated much further up this thread, there has been evidence that teams with an LGBTQ+ supporters club actually have less issues with homophobia, more inclusivity and a greater understanding overall.

Football SHOULD be inclusive, but at the moment it's not, If you believe I am misguided in following suggestions made by kickitout I really would welcome suggestions as to how, as a group of people with only one thing in common (our love of Burnley), we can work towards inclusivity and raise awareness of issues.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 pm

only read first and last pages so not sure if already asked, forgive me if it has.

If this club gets off the ground and has enough supports should BRFC have a separate seating area for LBGT or should it continue to be a co-mingling of all supports regardless of orientation?

Also would this club be meeting together before the game, say at the Bridge, for drinks and pie & peas?

just curious as to how you see the club forming? Am pretty sure many supporters today will be sat next to LBG without knowing, making a great leap in the T section to assuming rightly or wrongly, most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females, but they may be gay or bi.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:11 pm

KateR wrote:only read first and last pages so not sure if already asked, forgive me if it has.

If this club gets off the ground and has enough supports should BRFC have a separate seating area for LBGT or should it continue to be a co-mingling of all supports regardless of orientation?

Also would this club be meeting together before the game, say at the Bridge, for drinks and pie & peas?

just curious as to how you see the club forming? Am pretty sure many supporters today will be sat next to LBG without knowing, making a great leap in the T section to assuming rightly or wrongly, most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females, but they may be gay or bi.

KATE! BRFC? Now that really would be going over to the other side!

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:14 pm

lol
ok you got me really screwed that up but please trust me in that I have never ever been to a Blackburn match (unless Burnley were playing) and have never ever supported them.

I will add though I don't hate them

apologies to anyone I may have offended with my comments

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:17 pm

KateR wrote:only read first and last pages so not sure if already asked, forgive me if it has.

If this club gets off the ground and has enough supports should BRFC have a separate seating area for LBGT or should it continue to be a co-mingling of all supports regardless of orientation?

Also would this club be meeting together before the game, say at the Bridge, for drinks and pie & peas?

just curious as to how you see the club forming? Am pretty sure many supporters today will be sat next to LBG without knowing, making a great leap in the T section to assuming rightly or wrongly, most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females, but they may be gay or bi.

BRFC? Are you on the right forum?

Several times on the thread I've mentioned that no, I don't think there should be separate seating for those who are members, what I envisage is ability to travel together to away matches, social meets and events (not always connected to match day), working with the club to provide inclusivity and diversity training to enable stewards and staff better understanding of issues and how to deal with them when they are reported. To work with the club and other supporters clubs to make the match day experience enjoyable, safe, friendly and harassment free for all.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:23 pm

Thank you Alice

this is the only football forum I have ever been on and can see me never living that one down!!

survey completed.

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:31 pm

KateR wrote:Thank you Alice
this is the only football forum I have ever been on and can see me never living that one down!!

survey completed.

I'm sure you will, eventually

Thank you, your post actually made me think and I've added a TL;DR to the opening post. Interestingly, today stonewall lauched their new campagin and one of the first graphics they shared was this:

: Screen Shot 2017-09-07 at 13.08.21.png (467.12 KiB) Viewed 5298 times

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:44 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Football SHOULD be inclusive, but at the moment it's not, If you believe I am misguided in following suggestions made by kickitout I really would welcome suggestions as to how, as a group of people with only one thing in common (our love of Burnley), we can work towards inclusivity and raise awareness of issues.

I would suggest not labelling yourself by having your own supporters club would be a start. I'm genuinely in favour of anything that promotes inclusivity of any kind, but in my opinion this would do the opposite.

It's almost like you're accepting that certain sections of our support aren't welcoming and therefore you're going to "stick to your own". I don't mean any offence by that either. I'm firmly in the camp of not letting them win, but that's what it looks like from my angle (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Turn up and support your club. If there's a minority of idiots who can't handle the fact you're doing so as a gay man then that's their problem. Keep on turning up and doing what you're doing. I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I hope it works and creates the harmony we need as a club to build relationships between all corners of society.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:18 pm

jlup1980 wrote:I would suggest not labelling yourself by having your own supporters club would be a start. I'm genuinely in favour of anything that promotes inclusivity of any kind, but in my opinion this would do the opposite.

It's almost like you're accepting that certain sections of our support aren't welcoming and therefore you're going to "stick to your own". I don't mean any offence by that either. I'm firmly in the camp of not letting them win, but that's what it looks like from my angle (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Turn up and support your club. If there's a minority of idiots who can't handle the fact you're doing so as a gay man then that's their problem. Keep on turning up and doing what you're doing. I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I hope it works and creates the harmony we need as a club to build relationships between all corners of society.

Hi jlup1980, my understanding is that we can all join and we can all show our support for LGBTQ+ football supporters - and players, when that day finally arrives.

There've been a couple of other threads (already mentioned above) related to this subject. There was a report on BBC a few weeks back about LGBTQ+ fan groups. It said that most Premier League clubs had these groups - and implied that Burnley already had one (though, maybe Alice is right, and the BBC had forgotten Burnley are Premier League).

UTC

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:39 pm

I'm not gay but once slept with a bloke who was

.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:01 pm

I'm not gay myself, but have a friend who thinks he might be,what advice could you give me,sorry I mean him?

Seriously this is an awful idea totally divisive .Its 2017 nobody cares which way you swing,just as it would be wrong to have a "black supporters group" or Asian fans group or "chubby submissive males group" it's just not needed were all Clarets .

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:10 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:I'm not gay myself, but have a friend who thinks he might be,what advice could you give me,sorry I mean him?

Seriously this is an awful idea totally divisive .Its 2017 nobody cares which way you swing,just as it would be wrong to have a "black supporters group" or Asian fans group or "chubby submissive males group" it's just not needed were all Clarets .

I wish it was the case that no-one cares but that is far from the truth. I also point you to the overwhelming evidence that shows that LGBTQ Supporters clubs work to help promote inclusive behaviour and attitudes in stadiums!

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:26 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:I'm not gay myself, but have a friend who thinks he might be,what advice could you give me,sorry I mean him?

Seriously this is an awful idea totally divisive .Its 2017 nobody cares which way you swing,just as it would be wrong to have a "black supporters group" or Asian fans group or "chubby submissive males group" it's just not needed were all Clarets .

This.

I can understand speaking up about something but it will a actually create division. There are many more Asian supporters and the majority Ihave seen are in mixed groups. There is full integration. In recent years I can't recall any racist or homophobic abuse directed at anyone. Anyone who did this would be the odd one out and look pretty stupid. One big family supporting The Claret's. People shouldn't have to give one if you are gay ir not and you shouldn't have to broadcast it at a football match.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:28 pm

Is it an awful idea because you're heterosexual?

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:32 pm

Eh ? I'd be saying the same if it was a Catholic Supporters Group. I think you get the point.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:32 pm

Sidney
It's an awful idea because it's divisive and leaving them far more open to ridicule and sniggering .If they feel better as a group good for them it's hardly a problem but to have an official gay supporters group puts a "them and us" where there is no need imo.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:36 pm

this thread has come full circle and started again because folks are jumping straight to page 6 and not seeing they're being repetitive with the contribution...

@KateR - "most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females" Are you SURE you understand transgender?? Two people I know and speak with daily, born female but identify as male, would be mortified by your lack of understanding

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:40 pm

As an aside it would be interesting to know how many transgender supporters there are. I'd be surprised if there are 5. Certainly not enough for their own group and barely enough for a sub group. Will they get enough representation though being bundled in with the LGBT group as a whole.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:42 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Sidney
It's an awful idea because it's divisive and leaving them far more open to ridicule and sniggering .If they feel better as a group good for them it's hardly a problem but to have an official gay supporters group puts a "them and us" where there is no need imo.

Ah so because there are people in the world who aren't willing to accept people are of different sexualities then its an awful idea?

I think you're wrong, if people feel the need to ridicule and snigger then they're the ones with the issue.

As for a them and us label, its already there and it isn't the LBGTQ people who've put it there.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:48 pm

Anyone poking fun will be the odd ones out as it stands without separate groups. I think you underestimate the fan base as a whole.

scrambledclaret · Post by **scrambledclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:57 pm

I have numerous LGBT* loved ones, I've even fallen for at least two women on the spectrum. Talking to them has made me aware of how much casual homophobia can upset them, or at the very least, just wear them down. There's a bit of that on here and I know I made the odd ill thought remark back in the day. It doesn't cost us much to move to a more inclusive community.

I've done the survey and wish the OP luck. Who knows what the best way forward is but let's try to have a calm dialogue on it. Surely it's a good thing for us to recruit as many Clarets as we can get?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:01 pm

NRC wrote:this thread has come full circle and started again because folks are jumping straight to page 6 and not seeing they're being repetitive with the contribution...

@KateR - "most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females" Are you SURE you understand transgender?? Two people I know and speak with daily, born female but identify as male, would be mortified by your lack of understanding

Would your friends be mortified of KateR's lack of understanding of presumably thousands of different issues that affect tiny proportions of the world's population?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:06 pm

Blackrod wrote:Anyone poking fun will be the odd ones out as it stands without separate groups. I think you underestimate the fan base as a whole.

The fan base as a whole isn't the issue.

I'm sure a large proportion will be accepting, but there will most definitely be a good number of bell ends who will point, laugh and snigger.

Nothing would be done to stop them though because they wont be stood on their own mocking others, they will be in groups.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:13 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Would your friends be mortified of KateR's lack of understanding of presumably thousands of different issues that affect tiny proportions of the world's population?

perhaps my friends, with all their learning, would hold reserve on making comments (however unintended they may be from KateR) on issues they don't know enough about so that they don't display levels of ignorance displayed towards them

The above is not a true statement, but I made it to make the point. My "friends" are both early teens from families we're close to, and receiving hormone blockers.

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:23 pm

Blackrod wrote: In recent years I can't recall any racist or homophobic abuse directed at anyone.

Really? Cause I hear 'get up you poof' at least once a match! Homophobic language in itself is rife, let alone abuse directed at an individual.

As for transgender supporters. I'd be really interested to know if any supporters no longer attend because of fear.

BillyIngham'sShorts · Post by **BillyIngham'sShorts** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:31 pm

i am not gay. A lot of the stuff on here makes me laugh though. Why would anyone give a proverbial sh*t whether gay people want to form such a group, if it makes the participants happy. Let them , or anyone else who want to form a group, get on with it I say.

PS I am thinking forming a nose pickers supporters group - would this offend anyone or could anyone really give a rat's ass.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:00 pm

Anyone who thinks we haven't got an issue I recommend you take a look at the "Gareth Thomas: Hate in the beautiful game" thread - and, if possible the programme itself on BBC iPlayer. Take a look at what Gareth Thomas has to say about gay footballers. Also take a look at the section on Crystal Palace fans message board and their comments on fans of another football club.

It's NOT divisive to have a LGBTQ+ supporters group - it's divisive if we don't have one, it's divisive if we don't welcome LGBTQ+ supporters and join them and stand with them against, what the BBC news reported tonight are a growing number of "hate crimes" (words from BBC news report) against LGBT. It is a society issue and football fans can help in ending this issue - or we can stand by and be part of the problem.

Come on, everyone, let's support the formation of a Burnley FC LGBTQ+ supporters group.

UTC

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:09 pm

Homophobic language is not rife in the ground at all. You are creating a sh*tstorm. The last time I heard the word 'poof' in the ground was years ago. The type of language has changed considerably over the years. Not swearing I will admit. The terms 'fat' and 'bald' are used considerably still. If you are wanting an environment where you will never hear anything you don't like them we will all be dead before this happens. You will never eradicate every single comment you do not want to hear.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:13 pm

NRC wrote:this thread has come full circle and started again because folks are jumping straight to page 6 and not seeing they're being repetitive with the contribution...

@KateR - "most people would recognize a T sat next to them unless full transitioned at which state I include them to be females" Are you SURE you understand transgender?? Two people I know and speak with daily, born female but identify as male, would be mortified by your lack of understanding

This circle cannot be squared. The FA, along with most other sporting groups, has an official definition that if you are born with a penis, you are a man. Full stop, end of story, it doesn't matter what you identify with. (Apart from some extremely rare physical exceptions.) If you want football fans to identify fully with transgender issues, this attitude of the FA has to be changed.

But that means abolishing women's football. So which way to go? Are women different from men physically, or not? And how can I or anyone else fully understand it?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:15 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Really? Cause I hear 'get up you poof' at least once a match! Homophobic language in itself is rife, let alone abuse directed at an individual.

As for transgender supporters. I'd be really interested to know if any supporters no longer attend because of fear.

Only heard racist comments at football..fat comments...as well.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:16 pm

Shut that door!

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:19 am

Anything that brings more people to the Turf and makes them feel safe and included is a good thing, the sad thing is in this day and age we still have neanderthals who will make fun of people who don't quite fit their interpretation of 'normal'.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:32 pm

FulledgeClaret wrote:Anything that brings more people to the Turf and makes them feel safe and included is a good thing, the sad thing is in this day and age we still have neanderthals who will make fun of people who don't quite fit their interpretation of 'normal'.

Are you singling out Neanderthals?
Is it because these days there are less of them and they don't quite fit your interpretation of 'normal.
Hold on am i singling you out

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:06 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Are you singling out Neanderthals?
Is it because these days there are less of them and they don't quite fit your interpretation of 'normal.
Hold on am i singling you out

It would depend on my interpretation of normal. If your human and treat others with respect I would say your normal, if you label somebody and ridicule them for their sexual preference or disability then there's something wrong with you.

Don't worry I don't feel singled out.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:49 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Sidney
It's an awful idea because it's divisive and leaving them far more open to ridicule and sniggering .If they feel better as a group good for them it's hardly a problem but to have an official gay supporters group puts a "them and us" where there is no need imo.

If there is no issue and this is unnecessary then who is doing the ridicule and sniggering?

The obvious area for an LGBTQ supporters club is advocacy. I don't think anyone is expecting Accy Clarets or the like to take the lead with combating homophobia at football, that's not what they were set up for.

As for "homophobia doesn't exist in football, why is this needed", you only need to look at the threads on Brighton on this board to see that isn't the case.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:16 pm

Obviously I haven't read the whole thread. Just wanted to post my view.
Alice, congratulations on your initiative. I wish you all the best and success with setting up a supporters' club.
There seems to be a common view that gay people should just blend in, not be noticed and keep quiet. Then of course you'll be accepted. But heaven forbid you should express your sexuality! The day that 2 men can walk hand in hand down Harry Potts Way without getting slaughtered by homophobic comments is the day we can say there is no need to campaign for gay rights in football. I suspect that day has not yet arrived.