Gay and a claret? me too!

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:53 pm

Personally I'm bi-sexual and I can't be the only gay in the village!

After a couple of comments that were made on a different thread I'm going to conduct some market research about the viability of setting up an LGBTQ+ supporters club. It's just research at the moment and as much as I'd love there to be one right now, this moment, I'm not sure a supporters club of just one would be much fun.

I have set up a very short simple survey, please take time to fill it in.

Please remember I'm an actual human, with feelings, be nice and don't fill it in with anything horrible or homophobic.

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/HVS5P2P" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TL;DR
There is evidence from kickitout, prideinfootball and stonewall that an LGBTQ+ supporters club is a good thing for a club and leads to increased inclusivity.

Personally I'd envisage the club being a group of understanding people, of all genders and sexualities, providing:

an ability to travel together to away matches, social meets and events (not always connected to match day)
working with the club to provide inclusivity and diversity training to enable stewards and staff better understanding of issues and how to deal with them when they are reported
To work with the club and other supporters clubs to make the match day experience enjoyable, safe, friendly and harassment free for all.

But a supporters club aims and objectives are a collective thing and never just one persons so would be likely to change.

I wouldn't want segregated seating within the turf for those who are members of the supporters club.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:00 pm

just wondering why you feel the need to set up a separate supporters club ? It's 2017, you should be welcomed by everyone in any club, those that don't welcome you aren't worth knowing.

sox8595 · Post by **sox8595** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:just wondering why you feel the need to set up a separate supporters club ? It's 2017, you should be welcomed by everyone in any club, those that don't welcome you aren't worth knowing.

Agreed.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:02 pm

I kind of agree Alice - why don't you just join the rest of us?

SurreyClaret99 · Post by **SurreyClaret99** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:03 pm

You are not the only gay in the village

I have completed the survey so hope that helps.

My main thoughts would be that although it would be a LGBTQ+ supporters club, it would have to aim to ensure that other supporters just related to us as other BFC supporters. We are no different to them in the support of the mighty Clarets! And any non-gay supporters should also be welcome to join to ensure full inclusion.

Bfcis4me · Post by **Bfcis4me** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:04 pm

I am not one of the gays but there's no harm in this. I think my uncle Richard was gay but never admitted it. I think each to their own and get that club sorted. Fair play to you!

People think I am.gay as I've never had a girlfriend but I've loved some one more Ethan imagine. She didn't love me though. It hurt so much and I still think of her now.

SurreyClaret99 · Post by **SurreyClaret99** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:just wondering why you feel the need to set up a separate supporters club ? It's 2017, you should be welcomed by everyone in any club, those that don't welcome you aren't worth knowing.

Vegas Claret - I agree and hope that my post came across as thinking the same as you and others.

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:06 pm

Oh I wish that was the case, there have been some recent threads that show that homophobia is very much alive and well, not just in Burnley but elsewhere too!

Plenty of clubs now have an LGBTQ+ supporters club and they have found it's lead to greater inclusion. While the 'those that don't welcome you aren't worth knowing' view is very true, when there are people, technically strangers, sat in seats around you who are at the very least using homophbic slurs it's not as easy as that, why should I have to move my seat, change my season ticket because of their views, maybe if there was a more visible presence and acceptance then attitudes may just change!

Leightonslaces · Post by **Leightonslaces** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:08 pm

I like a bit off both tbh but are we all gods children and should live as one

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:08 pm

For god sake not this again.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:09 pm

An interesting thread. I've done the survey and wish you well.
Can't wait for some of the responses.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Yeah but you're OUR gays / lesbians / whatever, we all stand together on the Turf regardless of what your preference is!

We all jump around the same when we score, we all sit head in hands at the last gasp equaliser.

We're all the same come 3pm on a Saturday (or whatever time Sky decide!)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:For god sake not this again.

Gay people upsetting you again? Bless.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Good luck with your survey but, I'm with Vegas on this.

WHY feel the need to openly express your sexuality? I'm straight but I don't feel the need to spout about it or start a sub-group of the Clarets Supporters Club.

There are lots of LGBT groups out there. Why form another?

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Guich wrote:I kind of agree Alice - why don't you just join the rest of us?

Did you ask the disabled supporters club why they have one? or Accy clarets why they have one?

SurreyClaret99 wrote: My main thoughts would be that although it would be a LGBTQ+ supporters club, it would have to aim to ensure that other supporters just related to us as other BFC supporters. We are no different to them in the support of the mighty Clarets! And any non-gay supporters should also be welcome to join to ensure full inclusion.

In my mind an LGBTQ+ supporters club would be open to anyone who felt a connection to, or support for the aims of the supporters club,

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:11 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:For god sake not this again.

Gandhi that is not the attitude we have come to expect from a great teacher.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:12 pm

SurreyClaret99 wrote:Vegas Claret - I agree and hope that my post came across as thinking the same as you and others.

That's the exact point I have made in the survey. The proposal will only serve to alienate yourselves.

If you don't want to blend in with the rest of society, go ahead with your proposal, but don't be surprised
at the possible consequences from our less enlightened/tolerant members of society.

Venkys4eva · Post by **Venkys4eva** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:16 pm

Leightonslaces wrote:I like a bit off both tbh but are we all gods children and should live as one

Speak for yourself Im an athiest and choose not to believe in sky faries...

As for being gay, who cares? Its 2017 so if you feel the need to set up a seperate supporters group go for it.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:17 pm

I say it because it will just turn into a 5 page thread with the usual suspects arguing with one another (it took the prime one all of 12 posts to get his post in. Some sort of record surely). It's been discussed before and I'm in the opinion of setting up such clubs does not promote equality. It shouldn't matter whether your gay or not to support your club. And before i get called a homophobe I shared In the previous topic about this subject a story which proves my beliefs. I just can't remember the title of the said thread.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:19 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:I say it because it will just turn into a 5 page thread with the usual suspects arguing with one another (it took the prime one all of 12 posts to get his post in. Some sort of record surely). It's been discussed before and I'm in the opinion of setting up such clubs does not promote equality. It shouldn't matter whether your gay or not to support your club. And before i get called a homophobe I shared In the previous topic about this subject a story which proves my beliefs. I just can't remember the title of the said thread.

Has anyone disagreed with you so far? Who's arguing? You're the only one arguing and you're doing it without an opponent, which is impressive.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:20 pm

[quote="AliceDevine"]Did you ask the disabled supporters club why they have one? or Accy clarets why they have one?

Alice, I think you'll have plenty of support for this but you can't really compare with Accy Clarets - LBGTQs don't all live in one town; nor do they have the physical problems of disabled supporters to overcome, both cases have logistics and transport as a common issue.

Like Engineer says we're all Clarets and only a small minority would see you as different. I'd say that's a good thing. Try not to make it a campaign otherwise we'll all accuse you of being from London!

Leightonslaces · Post by **Leightonslaces** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:22 pm

Venkys4eva wrote:Speak for yourself Im an athiest and choose not to believe in sky faries...

As for being gay, who cares? Its 2017 so if you feel the need to set up a seperate supporters group go for it.

Be a boring world if we was all the same

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:23 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Oh I wish that was the case, there have been some recent threads that show that homophobia is very much alive and well, not just in Burnley but elsewhere too!

Plenty of clubs now have an LGBTQ+ supporters club and they have found it's lead to greater inclusion. While the 'those that don't welcome you aren't worth knowing' view is very true, when there are people, technically strangers, sat in seats around you who are at the very least using homophbic slurs it's not as easy as that, why should I have to move my seat, change my season ticket because of their views, maybe if there was a more visible presence and acceptance then attitudes may just change!

It is very unfortunate you feel the need to start this group IMO. And No you shouldn't have to move seats because of the behaviour of others.

The sad thing is obscene slurs in a football crowd are all encompassing be it aimed at gay people, different race, fat ,bald, ginger, disabled it seems nobody is spared but we cannot set up supporters clubs for all of them. And the people who shout the obscenities aren't generally nasty people they are just pig ignorant and appear to have had a lobotomy at the turnstile and recover again once on Brunshaw Road, they think they are being funny and even look around to see if they have an audience.

We should all sit ,stand sing and celebrate together in and around Turf Moor.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:23 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Has anyone disagreed with you so far? Who's arguing? You're the only one arguing and you're doing it without an opponent, which is impressive.

Because we all know what you're like IT. You live for these moments.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:25 pm

Good luck.

Some people just may not want to stand out though for their own reasons and not necessarily because they're sat next to a raging bigot.

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:26 pm

I'd like to wish you well with all of this. However, as leader of the West Yorkshire Clarets, I'd like to put it on record that any person of any gender, religion, colour, special-needs or sexual orientation, would always be made to feel welcome at any of our meetings. We are just people, all sharing the same love, Burnley FC.

Very best wishes.

John

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:28 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Because we all know what you're like IT. You live for these moments.

What do you expect my argument to be? You seem so sure of it so i'm sure you can explain it to the rest of us.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:30 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I'd like to wish you well with all of this. However, as leader of the West Yorkshire Clarets, I'd like to put it on record that any person of any gender, religion, colour, special-needs or sexual orientation, would always be made to feel welcome at any of our meetings. We are just people, all sharing the same love, Burnley FC.

You should be disowned for the West Yorks link..........

AliceDevine · Post by **AliceDevine** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:30 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Good luck.

Some people just may not want to stand out though for their own reasons and not necessarily because they're sat next to a raging bigot.

Totally, personally I only recently came out to my family. Mainly because I was thinking about the possibility of this! But if it was a group of people who could be there, support someone through that, with the love of the Clarets as another thing connecting them, then great.

ClaretCliff · Post by **ClaretCliff** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:34 pm

I think the reason people are not 100% behind this is that it is not obvious what the purpose is, apart from gays trying to promote their sexual preferences. (sincerely hope I've worded that correctly, I have absolutely no intention of upsetting anyone - just trying to add to the debate).

You reference Accy Clarets supporters club and disabilities supporters club and appear to be grouping an LGBT supporters group. But there is a big difference. Accy Clarets exists to organise tickets & travel to away games. I am sure they offer the same benefits to the LGBT community, whether knowingly or not. The disabilities supporters group does, I guess, work with the club to provide better facilities for disabled supporters who struggle with the non-disabled facilities. again, I would not think there is any discrimination in the group between LGBT and others.

I think supporters can see the point of these clubs and hence the lack of resistance. If you could come up with a good reason to have a LGBT supporters club, then I think others will see a benefit - if not then you are struggling to get the idea across.

Just for the record, I am not LGBT, I am not disabled and I do not use the services of Accy Clarets.

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:36 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I'd like to wish you well with all of this. However, as leader of the West Yorkshire Clarets, I'd like to put it on record that any person of any gender, religion, colour, special-needs or sexual orientation, would always be made to feel welcome at any of our meetings. We are just people, all sharing the same love, Burnley FC.

Very best wishes.

John

You deliberately left people from Accy out of your statement.

Accyphobe!

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:36 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What do you expect my argument to be? You seem so sure of it so i'm sure you can explain it to the rest of us.

What do you expect my retort to be to your initial reply in post 13? You appear on every thread provoking arguments. Anyway I'm leaving this there now because there will be others actually wanting to see posts about the thread title rather than bickering.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:38 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:What do you expect my retort to be to your initial reply in post 13? You appear on every thread provoking arguments. Anyway I'm leaving this there now because there will be others actually wanting to see posts about the thread title rather than bickering.

Woah woah woah, the only person coming on here to cause an argument was you!

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:38 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Totally, personally I only recently came out to my family. Mainly because I was thinking about the possibility of this! But if it was a group of people who could be there, support someone through that, with the love of the Clarets as another thing connecting them, then great.

I just want to say that it must have taken great courage to come out as it would anyone which is unfortunate and for that you have my respect.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:39 pm

grapidianclaret wrote:You deliberately left people from Accy out of your statement.

Accyphobe!

That's because no one has been able to label them yet with anything.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:39 pm

Having a quick shag followed by a beer whilst watching the rest of Match of the Day does have an appeal to it .......

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Sidney1st wrote:That's because no one has been able to label them yet with anything.

I thought they had been labelled "coach burners"?

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Woah woah woah, the only person coming on here to cause an argument was you!

No intentions to cause any arguments. But if you can't see what I am trying to say (about the board as a whole) then I may as well give up. I do expect my first post to generate a reply, to which I would openly and politely engage. However IT's childish reply was typical of the poster.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:42 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I'd like to wish you well with all of this. However, as leader of the West Yorkshire Clarets, I'd like to put it on record that any person of any gender, religion, colour, special-needs or sexual orientation, would always be made to feel welcome at any of our meetings. We are just people, all sharing the same love, Burnley FC.

Very best wishes.

John

Except Methodists, of course. We WYCs hate Methodists!

DavidFishwicksDad · Post by **DavidFishwicksDad** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:44 pm

I don't think any gay people live in accy utc

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm appalled at the pushback on this in that an LGBTQ group somehow has less of a purpose than others...... so long as it is open to others and not a card-holding club.

Alice's reference to why treat Accy Clarets or Disabled Clarets with some level of tacit approval is spot on. They each, as has been subsequently pointed out, serve a purpose, and so would an LGBTQ - a self-identity, a camaraderie, an ability to not feel alone, and be able to discuss issues beyond the Clarets, knowing the commonality in the Claret Clan is in place.

I, as do others, belong to USA Clarets. We never meet, we don't get together to buy tickets or travel, we don't collectively sit in the rain in wheelchairs, but we have a common identity. Why should LGBTQ be any different?

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:46 pm

DavidFishwicksDad wrote:I don't think any gay people live in accy utc

Please let this be a joke.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:47 pm

Here we go again. The good thing about going to a match IMO is that it is a great leveller. It does not matter where anyone is from, what they have, their background or what they believe in. There is one objective for everyone in the Burnley end and that is to see Burnley win and hopefully with some entertainment thrown in. Nobody should feel the need to segment themselves and I can't help but feel this is counter productive IMO.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:47 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:What do you expect my retort to be to your initial reply in post 13? You appear on every thread provoking arguments. Anyway I'm leaving this there now because there will be others actually wanting to see posts about the thread title rather than bickering.

Yes, this is the kind of post people want to see

gandhisflipflop wrote:For god sake not this again.

I'm so glad you were here to prevent any kind of argument with "For god sake not this again". Where would we be without you?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:48 pm

AliceDevine wrote:Did you ask the disabled supporters club why they have one? or Accy clarets why they have one?

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous comment and does you no favours at all. Accy Clarets run coach travel so that one's pretty obvious and the disabled group, who have special needs, have been set up and are helping the club in determining what's needed at the ground.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:50 pm

in your opinion it's ridiculous. I guess we should disband USA clarets forthwith

(Edited before CT's initial reply)

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:52 pm

NRC wrote:in your opinion it's ridiculous

It's ridiculous because there are clear reasons why they exist

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:56 pm

NRC wrote:in your opinion it's ridiculous. I guess we should disband USA clarets forthwith

(Edited after CT's initial reply)

Disabled clarets have particular needs which are easier for them to have Burnley FC meet if they form a club (like disabled access). Accy Clarets have particular needs as a result of their geography (like transport). LGBTQ+ supporters have no particular needs (that i'm aware of) that can better be met if they form a club.

Perhaps the OP could help us understand what she hopes such a supporters' club would acheive. Then we could better understand the need for one.

IAmAClaret · Post by **IAmAClaret** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:57 pm

Something I've never really understood....

Why do you want to form a group that separates you from everyone else, with the aim of ensuring you are treated the same as everyone else who doesn't join your group? If you just joined everyone else, you'd be treated the same anyway?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:59 pm

NRC wrote:in your opinion it's ridiculous. I guess we should disband USA clarets forthwith

(Edited before CT's initial reply)

No - edited AFTER my reply, I quoted your full post.