Lowerhouse accuse Clitheroe

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:05 pm

Article in the Lancs telegraph suggesting Lowerhouse have made a full complaint for alleged player payments to the League.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sp ... rongdoing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Good for them.

lifelongclaret · Post by **lifelongclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:26 pm

Well done lowerhouse,
Clitheroe had a Australian playing for them last season , he was employed bye Dawson's hardware store , Who happen to be the clubs sponsor, it's very coincidental that he left Dawson's at the end of the cricket season

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:30 pm

I am sure there will be a few ex players who will have a story or 2 to tell about getting paid, but my question is, were they ( Clitheroe ) allowed to pay amateurs in their previous league? It says in the article the Rochdale league allows payment for amateurs, so if it is only the Lancashire league who don't, then Clitheroe will surely only need to answer a case for this year. ( which maybe a bit more difficult to prove )

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:33 pm

So glad this is happening. They poached two Nelson players too.
Nelson v Clitheroe was the only game to finish on Sunday. Hurricane Irma wouldn't have stopped Clitheroe playing. Much of the game played in the rain.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 pm

Elder statesman wrote:So glad this is happening. They poached two Nelson players too.
Nelson v Clitheroe was the only game to finish on Sunday. Hurricane Irma wouldn't have stopped Clitheroe playing. Much of the game played in the rain.

It's down to the umpires not the teams when to come off for rain. There is a big initative going on at the moment 'to get the game on' by the ECB.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 pm

Imagine if Clitheroe do get found guilty and chucked out. Then with all the money they have decide to have private investigators to gather evidence of every other club doing it. Lowerhouse would be awarded the league by default.

lifelongclaret · Post by **lifelongclaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:55 pm

Clitheroe pay a certain player as a groundsman he doesn't actually work, there are allegations and rumours that 2 players come from nelson for payment , the wicket keeper was porched from padiham for a fee, rumour that Clitheroe paid off his debts..
Clitheroe are awash with money, and are desperate to win at all cost, money's no object,obviously the league are looking into this, hopefully they will be stripped of any silverware and sanctioned,

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Enough been said about it for long enough and if they are breaking the rules well done to those who have exposed it

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:44 pm

lifelongclaret wrote:Clitheroe pay a certain player as a groundsman he doesn't actually work, there are allegations and rumours that 2 players come from nelson for payment , the wicket keeper was porched from padiham for a fee, rumour that Clitheroe paid off his debts..
Clitheroe are awash with money, and are desperate to win at all cost, money's no object,obviously the league are looking into this, hopefully they will be stripped of any silverware and sanctioned,

If Clitheroe have any sense, they will have the paperwork, payslips for he groundsman and so on to show that it's all above board. If thy haven't taken those basic precautions, however bogus, they deserve to get done for their stupidity.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:27 pm

This particular case is about Kurt Robinson going into a pub to meet friends from his former club Padiham I'm told, who ribbed him like 99% of dressing room banter. How much have you earned today? and the like to which he replied it didn't even cover his petrol expenses.

It was overheard by people in high places at Lowerhouse.

You would think there must be more to prompt an enquiry and advise Clitheroe not to pick him until it's settled.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:35 pm

lifelongclaret wrote:Clitheroe pay a certain player as a groundsman he doesn't actually work, there are allegations and rumours that 2 players come from nelson for payment , the wicket keeper was porched from padiham for a fee, rumour that Clitheroe paid off his debts..
Clitheroe are awash with money, and are desperate to win at all cost, money's no object,obviously the league are looking into this, hopefully they will be stripped of any silverware and sanctioned,

Clitheroe were investigated over the Nelson pair and cleared by the league. The groundsman does actually help with the ground.

There was certainly no fee paid to Padiham although any player moving clubs in any league need to pay all subs before they can move. I presume that's what you are referring to.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:54 pm

I don't understand why they have waited so long to report their suspicions.

There was suspicion about their activities before the season even started.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:59 pm

I imagine this would be impossible to prove.

Comes across as sour grapes.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:02 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I imagine this would be impossible to prove.

Comes across as sour grapes.

It is impossible to prove, that's why clubs have got away with it for years.

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:03 pm

Certainly not sour grapes. I don't mind who wins the league as long as we all play by the rules.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:14 pm

Elder statesman wrote:Certainly not sour grapes. I don't mind who wins the league as long as we all play by the rules.

The common thought is more clubs pay players than don't in the Lancs League. So the majority would be playing by the same rules.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:24 pm

This has been a rumour all season and been mainly the subject of lighthearted jokes and banter..but clearly there is more to it for it even to get to that stage. Fair play to Lowerhouse. Lowerhouse try to do things the right way and have built things up successfully for quite a few years now and i can imagine it irks to see a new club come in and bend the rules. I was at Clitheroe for the two abandoned LCB cup games and also at Liverpool Road for the home game against them earlier in the season. It really came across how seriously Clitheroe took all the games. Very in your face. Not seen it from any other team before.
It doesnt help that Lowerhouse sought permission to add ex pro Francois Haasbroek (who now lives over here, and has employment) to their squad as an amateur at the start of the season but were refused. Clitheroe one of the clubs allegedly blocking this.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:42 pm

Clitheroe didn't block it they were in favour.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:47 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Clitheroe didn't block it they were in favour.

Only so they could poach him a few weeks later.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:53 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Clitheroe didn't block it they were in favour.

Like i said it was allegedly...certainly a few teams did. Follow the rules and lose out it seems. Very petty gamesmanship when you consider the offences Clitheroe are accused of.

HuncoatClaret · Post by **HuncoatClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:58 pm

Surprised it's only Clitheroe who've been named as it's rumoured that another newcomer to the league bend the financial laws.
This has gone on in the Rib and Lancs leagues for years.
Rishton offered TYBFC money to leave on numerous occasions.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:03 pm

Somethingfishy wrote:Like i said it was allegedly...certainly a few teams did. Follow the rules and lose out it seems. Very petty gamesmanship when you consider the offences Clitheroe are accused of.

Why would you describe it as gamesmanship? Some clubs want to make league cricket as strong as possible and some think you shouldn't have overseas ex pros playing as amateurs.
Whatever rules get voted in will apply to all clubs.

Frank must love it down at Lowerhouse as he has turned down a lot of money this year in pro and sub pro jobs to play next year.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:07 pm

HuncoatClaret wrote:Surprised it's only Clitheroe who've been named as it's rumoured that another newcomer to the league bend the financial laws.
This has gone on in the Rib and Lancs leagues for years.
Rishton offered TYBFC money to leave on numerous occasions.

Hence my comment about sour grapes; singling out the new boys who are about to win the league doesn't seem like trying to tackle a problem that is widespread in the league.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:17 pm

If rumours are to be believed they aren't the only club who pay or have paid amateur players.

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:08 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Hence my comment about sour grapes; singling out the new boys who are about to win the league doesn't seem like trying to tackle a problem that is widespread in the league.

Don't think, for one minute, it's widespread. There are very strong rumours about 2 of the 3 new clubs. Not aware of any others. Rammy have got round it by employing their star player as a coach, but, as far as I know, that's perfectly acceptable and above board

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:19 pm

You snooze, you lose.

DavidFishwicksDad · Post by **DavidFishwicksDad** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 pm

This might not b good news for the lancs league a new league and a lot off clubs paying money out behide everybody's backs I think start a new league where clubs don't pay money out just three teams in it my team colne bacup and rawenstall all the rest of the can carry on paying and spoiling amateur cricket good luck the lancs league with your investigations utc

Dressinggown · Post by **Dressinggown** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:17 pm

How on earth can you monitor payments to any players ?

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:18 pm

Dressinggown wrote:How on earth can you monitor payments to any players ?

I'd imagine one way would be the books, but that might be a rabbit hole....

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:56 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:I'd imagine one way would be the books, but that might be a rabbit hole....

If they're paying players illegally, they won't put it through the books. If they're doing a bit of "nod and a wink and we'll call it coaching", they probably will put it through the books as long as other players aren't getting the same, because cash through the books has to be paid with tax deducted. No sort of tax investigation is going to discover the odd £1,000 cash in hand because it isn't life changing; if the odd £10k is going missing from the club books, it could possibly be spotted because income is lower than it should be, but the tax office is unlikely to want to bother for that amount, and the league won't have the expertise or money to do it themselves. Not in detail.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:57 pm

lifelongclaret wrote:Clitheroe pay a certain player as a groundsman he doesn't actually work, there are allegations and rumours that 2 players come from nelson for payment , the wicket keeper was porched from padiham for a fee, rumour that Clitheroe paid off his debts..
Clitheroe are awash with money, and are desperate to win at all cost, money's no object,obviously the league are looking into this, hopefully they will be stripped of any silverware and sanctioned,

Porched ? Does that mean you are shown the door ?

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:22 am

HuncoatClaret wrote:Surprised it's only Clitheroe who've been named as it's rumoured that another newcomer to the league bend the financial laws.
This has gone on in the Rib and Lancs leagues for years.
Rishton offered TYBFC money to leave on numerous occasions.

HuncoatClaret - I started at Rishton in 1978 which is probably the year that I first bowled you out.

In the next twenty years I do remember you scoring a four somewhere. Could have been a friendly at Ossy Immanuel?

I was offered immense amounts of money to stop playing but getting you into the third team at Enfield was worth the wait

Back down to this thread.

I was treasurer and secretary at Rishton CC during the late 80's and 90's and can assure people that not a single amateur was paid during my time involved there. That included the times of the high profiles pros of Viv Richards and Allan Donald.

It sickens me in a way to feel that local league teams feel that they need to cheat and pay cricketers to win a title.

Bring them up from your youth system as Lowerhouse have done.

lifelongclaret · Post by **lifelongclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:10 am

lifelongclaret wrote:Clitheroe pay a certain player as a groundsman he doesn't actually work, there are allegations and rumours that 2 players come from nelson for payment , the wicket keeper was poached from padiham for a fee, rumour that Clitheroe paid off his debts..
Clitheroe are awash with money, and are desperate to win at all cost, money's no object,obviously the league are looking into this, hopefully they will be stripped of any silverware and sanctioned,

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:59 am

There's been a lot mud flung at Clitheroe on here all season. As well as making illegal payments to players, it seems bribing umpires to complete games in the rain and being over competitive are the latest crimes.
I live round the corner from the ground, have a season ticket and my 7 year old son plays at the junior Thursday night's session every week.
My experience is of a thriving club with a great set up and a lot of dedicated volunteers putting time in, hence almost all the junior teams have also won their respective leagues this year. A couple of the players are teachers at the local primary school. Not sure a player who has genuine employment through a club sponsor can be classed as an issue.
Clitheroe is a well run club that has attracted some generous sponsors in terms of clubhouse and ground improvements. From what I have seen, that has has to be earned from a committed fund raising committee - not sure where the perception of the club being 'awash with money' comes from.
Truth is I wouldn't have a clue whether any of the players are getting paid other than the professional, but clearly some from other clubs are convinced of this and if the club are breaking league rules and the allegations are proved then that would be a disappointing end to the season for those of us casual supporters / participants in our local club set-up, who have enjoyed a great summer with our kids playing and watching cricket.
In general the bigger support attracted to the ground from other Lancs League clubs (compared with previous Ribb league seasons) has been one of the highlights and the banter on the boundary between fans always good (again in my experience).

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:21 am

skulduggery in the ribble valley?! never!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:40 am

Cubanclaret wrote:As well as making illegal payments to players, it seems bribing umpires to complete games in the rain and being over competitive are the latest crimes.

You're the first person to suggest they're bribing umpires. Have you any more details?

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:46 am

Elder statesman wrote:. Rammy have got round it by employing their star player as a coach, but, as far as I know, that's perfectly acceptable and above board

Yes it is, providing the player has the appropriate coaching qualifications and actually does coach on a regular basis throughout the season.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:57 am

dsr wrote:You're the first person to suggest they're bribing umpires. Have you any more details?

I think he's done no more than twist and put his own, totally incorrect, observation on the following post from Elder statesman and the response to that from Quickenthetempo.

Elder statesman wrote:Nelson v Clitheroe was the only game to finish on Sunday. Hurricane Irma wouldn't have stopped Clitheroe playing. Much of the game played in the rain.

Quickenthetempo wrote:It's down to the umpires not the teams when to come off for rain. There is a big initative going on at the moment 'to get the game on' by the ECB.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:59 am

Corruption in cricket. Whod have thought it

DavidFishwicksDad · Post by **DavidFishwicksDad** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:42 am

I think it's about time the lancs league investigated all clubs and try a get back to a amature league or let them pay as some clubs are doing now at least it's out on the table it might be good for cricket it might not at least everybody knows the rules why not make it free entry into grounds so they are getting less money to pay players I know they get money from behind the bar but at least the goes through books utc

longsidelewis · Post by **longsidelewis** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:12 am

Where I live it's common knowledge that Haslingden and Ramsbottom pay the so called amateurs. Good luck with the investigations, I hope the truth comes out.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:20 am

DavidFishwicksDad wrote:I think it's about time the lancs league investigated all clubs and try a get back to a amature league or let them pay as some clubs are doing now at least it's out on the table it might be good for cricket it might not at least everybody knows the rules why not make it free entry into grounds so they are getting less money to pay players I know they get money from behind the bar but at least the goes through books utc

They can come to my club whenever they want and be given 100% transparency to the club accounts and access to every single player and his registration. Over a coffee we might even show them a breakdown of our major investment and considerable work put into junior croaching and they could watch the bullet point DVD presentation of our Advanced Junior Players Programme. And then when they publish what a well run well organised club we are and how all monies are accounted for you could perhaps come on here and add us to your list of Colne Bacup and Rawtenstall who aren't paying players. We don't need too.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:21 am

longsidelewis wrote:Where I live it's common knowledge that Haslingden and Ramsbottom pay the so called amateurs. Good luck with the investigations, I hope the truth comes out.

They are being ripped off then.

longsidelewis · Post by **longsidelewis** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:29 am

RocketLawnChair wrote:They can come to my club whenever they want and be given 100% transparency to the club accounts and access to every single player and his registration. Over a coffee we might even show them a breakdown of our major investment and considerable work put into junior croaching and they could watch the bullet point DVD presentation of our Advanced Junior Players Programme. And then when they publish what a well run well organised club we are and how all monies are accounted for you could perhaps come on here and add us to your list of Colne Bacup and Rawtenstall who aren't paying players. We don't need too.

Great response but which club are you talking about?

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:34 am

longsidelewis wrote:Great response but which club are you talking about?

Lowerhouse

Hopey · Post by **Hopey** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:14 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:They can come to my club whenever they want and be given 100% transparency to the club accounts and access to every single player and his registration. Over a coffee we might even show them a breakdown of our major investment and considerable work put into junior croaching and they could watch the bullet point DVD presentation of our Advanced Junior Players Programme. And then when they publish what a well run well organised club we are and how all monies are accounted for you could perhaps come on here and add us to your list of Colne Bacup and Rawtenstall who aren't paying players. We don't need too.

Amen - and I've seen it!

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:16 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:They can come to my club whenever they want and be given 100% transparency to the club accounts and access to every single player and his registration. Over a coffee we might even show them a breakdown of our major investment and considerable work put into junior croaching and they could watch the bullet point DVD presentation of our Advanced Junior Players Programme. And then when they publish what a well run well organised club we are and how all monies are accounted for you could perhaps come on here and add us to your list of Colne Bacup and Rawtenstall who aren't paying players. We don't need too.

You can add Nelson to your mini league too.

Elder statesman · Post by **Elder statesman** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:18 pm

And if you are being paid, as a ,so called, amateur, keep it quiet. Don't go around boasting what you're on.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:36 pm

Elder statesman wrote:You can add Nelson to your mini league too.

Pleased to hear that as an exiled Seedhillite