how long before investors....?

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:09 pm

Being reported that the Chinese investors behind WBA have rejected an approach from a US group. Investing in PL clubs can be a risky business due to the potential to drop out of it, so it makes sense that a team is considered to be relatively stable there before becoming a target.

If we stay up again, would we then potentially become attractive? I know we often speculate on this, and it's not a question of how well our Board is/isn't doing, and them being local for locals - it's more directly aimed at "does it make us a potential target" that puts our Board in the position of having to make a decision?

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Never I hope - I want custodian's not investors - preferably with deep local connections

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Garlick intimated we get enquiries on a regular basis. Whether they fit into the 'Burnley way' is another thing. I get the impression they won't just sell to just any Tom, Dick or Harry and have the long term interests of the club at heart. That said. Our stock must be rising and potential suitors with serious financial clout must be at least having a look, especially with our healthy finances.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:13 pm

Burnley....attractive.
I think that answers it.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:28 pm

you think we're established enough, Ian? EW makes a sound point re the balance sheet though....

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:50 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Never I hope - I want custodian's not investors - preferably with deep local connections

this.

Bop · Post by **Bop** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:51 pm

We will have Chinese investment.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:58 pm

We spoke about this on the way back yesterday.

My fear is that our stability, the new income stream, and growing player value would see an offer close to £0.5bn at some point, and logically, who can see the board turning that down? A comment I made is that if we are owned in the way Birmingham were and got rid of managers like Redknapp so quickly, it wouldn't be long before I would stop attending. The long journey each week is only worth it if we are all, in a way, in it together.

Enjoy it while we can because at some point, all good things come to an end.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:03 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:We spoke about this on the way back yesterday.

My fear is that our stability, the new income stream, and growing player value would see an offer close to £0.5bn at some point, and logically, who can see the board turning that down? A comment I made is that if we are owned in the way Birmingham were and got rid of managers like Redknapp so quickly, it wouldn't be long before I would stop attending. The long journey each week is only worth it if we are all, in a way, in it together.

Enjoy it while we can because at some point, all good things come to an end.

I can see your point. I'd hate to become a plastic club with a soulless bowl, but if the right bid came in and the club and fans were predominantly involved in the future of the club in a positive way, I'd not be unhappy. Not at the expense of our identity though. Ever!

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:09 pm

so IF our Board do have to deal with enquirers relatively frequently, one would imagine future husbandry would be very high on the list. One way to assure the future of the club as a clear community identifier is to do what Swansea did, and make that conditional on investors...... that way the fans/community have a direct stake.

The balance becomes ROI for the Board, which SHOULD satisfy them. the alternate view on that is if the Board do not apply that kind of husbandry, then it's all been rhetoric...

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:14 pm

NRC wrote:so IF our Board do have to deal with enquirers relatively frequently, one would imagine future husbandry would be very high on the list. One way to assure the future of the club as a clear community identifier is to do what Swansea did, and make that conditional on investors...... that way the fans/community have a direct stake.

The balance becomes ROI for the Board, which SHOULD satisfy them. the alternate view on that is if the Board do not apply that kind of husbandry, then it's all been rhetoric...

I don't doubt the sincerity of Garlick. I'd only be happy if it was in the best interests of the tradition and history of our club mind. I.E. We don't up and move to somewhere out in the sticks and rip the identity out of the club. It would need some sort of fan involvement. IMO

pushpinpussy · Post by **pushpinpussy** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:24 pm

We spoke about this on the way back yesterday.

must have been an interesting journey in your car back to Burnley

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:25 pm

If the club is self sustaining in the PL then there isn't a real need to sell.
Of course that self sustainability is frowned upon by some and there are some fans who want the club to spend x amount of money without thinking about the long term consequences.
Yes other clubs around us, and in the league below, spend more but they probably aren't getting the same value for money that Burnley are getting generally.

Investment would have to be carefully considered because it can lead to instability because expectations would be raised.

Bop · Post by **Bop** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:27 pm

I don't want to see it unless we retain our identity, ground name, and a sound decision making board of Burnley fans. But it's on the cards.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:33 pm

Look at City and Chelsea since new owners, I love the way we do it now but football is the top is all about finance and we don't have the finance to ever really push on past midtable. Id love to see us in Europe before I pop my clogs.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:39 pm

KRBFC wrote:Look at City and Chelsea since new owners, I love the way we do it now but football is the top is all about finance and we don't have the finance to ever really push on past midtable. Id love to see us in Europe before I pop my clogs.

City and Chelsea have been lucky enough to drop on owners with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Many, many others including two of our nearest neighbours have been less fortunate.

Obviously I'd like us to increase our income and become more competitive but not at the risk of throwing everything away.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:43 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:City and Chelsea have been lucky enough to drop on owners with seemingly bottomless pits of money. Many, many others including two of our nearest neighbours have been less fortunate.

Obviously I'd like us to increase our income and become more competitive but not at the risk of throwing everything away.

Two of our neighbours haven't thrown everything away though, Bolton are still in the Championship not League Two.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:50 pm

When their man was pumping the cash in Bolton were comfortably mid-table in the Premier League.

They are now back in the Championship and struggling. They seem to have a new winding up order every week.

I reckon they've thrown a fair bit away.

Not sure why you're trying to make an urgument out of this.

Somebody chucking money at the club does not guarantee success.

Unless you're happy for your season in Europe and don't care what happens longer term.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:54 pm

Bolton will not be in the Championship next season.
The club is in massive debt and will struggle to get promoted from League 1 in a hurry

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:04 pm

I can't believe this is being debated

There is an example of what lies ahead if we go down this route just down the road

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:10 pm

We are in a great place. Let's just enjoy it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:14 pm

Bolton are just about holding on to the championship.
Enforced wage cap, finances closely monitored by the League etc and pretty much a laughing stock.

Eddie Davies has ultimately done more damage then anyone realised by the time he'd jumped ship when the TV parachute payments stopped.

You're only in your 20's aren't you KRBFC?
Plenty of time left yet.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:14 pm

We don't need any money. We can't spend what we have already on a desperately needed centre back.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:15 pm

Same with Portsmouth dossing down the lower leagues.

Stockbrokerbelt · Post by **Stockbrokerbelt** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:31 pm

End of the day it won't matter what we think, it will be all about the deal, as with players everyone has their price & once that's been hit we will be sold. Garlick talks about investment but I can't see anyone investing without taking charge unless we're used as an advertising platform or a club similar to Watford who push players around their group of clubs. I have an American friend who thinks we would be a good fit with with some of there sports owners who have several different sports clubs & not always well known but do well financially & are used as an investment especially with the MSL growing.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:41 pm

"Investors"

Pffft.

They can politely be told where to go and in what manner.

Anyone who wants to "invest" in football is either a liar or an utter idiot.

If, on the other hand, people who care deeply about Burnley Football Club have the necessary financial power to become custodians or wish to spend their money supporting us then that's a different matter.

But "investors"? No. Please, no.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:56 pm

Bop wrote:I don't want to see it unless we retain our identity, ground name, and a sound decision making board of Burnley fans. But it's on the cards.

Is this just your opinion or are you suggesting you know something we don't?

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:00 pm

Seriously wealthy investors ( in football terms) are rarely fans. If we are seen just as a business or a plaything we would be in trouble long term.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:16 pm

Investors look for income and capital appreciation. No thanks.

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:18 pm

Someone had mentioned to me the possibility of foreign investors the night before the Palace game

Mentioned it to a friend who has a seat in the Bob Lord and he said that on the day of the match he had seen 2 far east guys sat with Kilby and Flood in the directors box

Don't know if Mike Garlick was at that match as you would have thought he would be entertaining them if indeed he was there

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:33 pm

KRBFC wrote:Look at City and Chelsea since new owners, I love the way we do it now but football is the top is all about finance and we don't have the finance to ever really push on past midtable. Id love to see us in Europe before I pop my clogs.

We have been in Europe, it was just before you were born.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:40 pm

Investors, speculators or people just here to make a quick buck. No thanks. There'll come a time when some of the board sell their shares, lets hope its to someone trustworthy, who cares about the club and is in for the long term.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:01 pm

Bop wrote:We will have Chinese investment.

Who flung dung?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:12 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:Bolton will not be in the Championship next season.
The club is in massive debt and will struggle to get promoted from League 1 in a hurry

The same can happen without an investor, look at us before Flood came in. The negative example is always brought up when investment is discussed and people ignore the Chelsea, Man City etc

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:19 pm

So with a billionaire Chinese investor we might finish 15th rather than 16th.

Can't wait.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:22 pm

There are more bad investor's than good in English football.

You can keep pointing to the two major good ones but we can all point to a dozen bad ones.
Utd ended up in ridiculous debt, which whilst its been serviceable and they've stayed around the top, should never have been allowed to happen.

Liverpool were hours away from financial disaster by all accounts.
Portsmouth, Brum, Bolton, Leeds, Reading...

Then you'd need to look at the number of managers some of these clubs go through in their desperate efforts to reach the top.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:24 pm

I'll see your City, Chelsea and Leicester and raise you Birmingham, Sunderland, Forest, Rovers, Arsenal, Coventry, QPR, Palace, Liverpool, Everton, Leeds, West Bromwich Albion, Watford, Bournemouth, Hull City, Wolves and Villa.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Let's just carry on doing it the Burnley way.

It's part of all of us.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:27 pm

You could even look at Boro.

He wrote off £80 million a few years ago, same with Brighton owing Bloom £150-180 million ..

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:28 pm

What about venkys ?

john'sroseyspecs · Post by **john'sroseyspecs** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:30 pm

levraiclaret wrote:I'll see your City, Chelsea and Leicester and raise you Birmingham, Sunderland, Forest, Rovers, Arsenal, Coventry, QPR, Palace, Liverpool, Everton, Leeds, West Bromwich Albion, Watford, Bournemouth, Hull City, Wolves and Villa.

Exactly. It would sooner or later turn to shite. Do you want outside investors = do you want 3 managers in a year and/or the soul ripped out of the club ? We would just be a cash cow to be milked.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:The same can happen without an investor, look at us before Flood came in. The negative example is always brought up when investment is discussed and people ignore the Chelsea, Man City etc

we got away with the Flood gamble by the skin of our teeth - if we had lost that play-off we would have had massive debt and he would not have been able to bail us out as he got into big trouble with the Irish banks. Some of decision making (Academy Staffing in particular) has only recently started to be put right.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:33 pm

KRBFC wrote:Look at City and Chelsea since new owners, I love the way we do it now but football is the top is all about finance and we don't have the finance to ever really push on past midtable. Id love to see us in Europe before I pop my clogs.

And would you be happy if we sack a manager if he loses four games in a row?

We could easily end up with 2-3 managers per season.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:41 pm

Spijed wrote:And would you be happy if we sack a manager if he loses four games in a row?

We could easily end up with 2-3 managers per season.

And our Sean gets that..that's why he's staying put!

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:48 pm

To be honest, we don't need them. We've dragged ourselves up from the very bottom of the fourth tier to the top half of the top tier, we don't spend more than we get so our finances will continue to become more robust and the future of the club more secure. Anyone willing to 'invest' will want to get out more than they put in so that may imperil our financial future. Bolloxs to them, if they wanted to help us they should have come in when we needed them, not when we don't.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:50 pm

Plus there's always the risk something as cringe worthy as this happens to Burnley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rp3toJ9cAQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still laugh at Reading fans about this video their Thai owners released.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:57 pm

At present everything is pretty rosy, we're making money, we're sitting on loads of cash, we're holding our own in the best league in the world, we've got a sensible, realistic and stable board who genuinely love the club, we've got a brilliant and loyal manager who fits our club and our circumstances perfectly, we've got players who want to play for us and for each other with no overpayed, overhyped prima donas, we've got the whole town (and wider claret family) behind what we're doing and all that means we've absolutely no need to fix what isn't broken by seeking to change things and allow "investors" into the board room, even though I'm sure plenty MUST be looking and thinking we're a very tasty proposition. Ironically however, when/if things change and we slip out of the PL and our revenue stream starts to dry up and all or some of those things listed above stop lining up, then we would be desperate for ANY major investment, only by then they simply wouldn't be interested.
For now, keep things as they are. It's working fine and we stand apart as such a "different" club from virtually any other with our profitability, our stability, our local ownership and the "investment" (not strictly just financial) of the fans in the club.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Try to see it as attempting to hold back the tide........Make no mistake we are fast becoming a very desirable commodity within a global market. Now 7th in the biggest league in the world and about to report a potential £40 million profit in the financial year just ended on the back of a £35 million profit last time in the Prem.

All adds up to a very attractive proposition and with great respect to the seven current members of the Board I suspect several of them would never have envisaged being custodians of a business with an annual Income in excess of £120 million. One of those is about to complete 30 years of stalwart service but I doubt he, or any of the other six, would resist an offer of enormous proportions so long as the deal ensured everything that we hold dear at the club remains intact.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:05 pm

so long as the deal ensured everything that we hold dear at the club remains intact.

Impossible to guarantee that though.

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:07 pm

As I have posted elsewhere, BFC is becoming an exemplar of a well run club.

Lets keep on keeping on.