Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:12 pm

Notts Forest really believe in their new manager - they have just announced plans to increase capacity to 38000 - wow and they don't even own the ground

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... 8-000.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

how can they afford we ask - here is Swiss Ramble's view on their last set of accounts - which showed a massive profit due to loan write-offs and player sales - no wonder we couldn't get Joe Worral

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 92?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All this while their neighbours County face a winding up order from HMRC

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... stoms.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:14 pm

In post 480 Rui Pinto - aka "john" of Football Leaks fame - talked about the power of the Football Mafia and how he could not have a fair trial in Portugal. I suspected he was right and for now so do Eurojust - That is the Justice service arm of the EU - they are not happy


http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 55199.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:25 pm

Chester Perry wrote:The rules on wage growth in the Premier League permit only a 7% wage growth year on year from TV income (unless a the previous year's wage bill was less than £61m - a free pass to the promoted clubs). For many like us TV income is such a vast proportion of our income that this 7% limit becomes the prime restriction. There is no limit however if a club demonstrates that it's wage increase is covered by alternative sources of income, which in general means commercial income as Matchday Income tends to have a relatively stable ceiling. This is where Commercial or Sponsorship Income begins to play a telling role for the big boys in particular. Last year Man Utd grossed £280m in commercial Income which almost covered the whole of it's wage bill.
First and foremost, if wages are below a set level (£67m in 2016-17, when Burnley's was £61m; rising to £74m in 2017-18 and £81m in 2018-19) there is no issue. That's legal.

Secondly, if a club does go over that limit, then they are still OK if they can prove that the increase has been funded out of increased revenue. Technically the rules appear to say that if you spend £70m and have £30m profit one year, and next year your income is stable and you spend £90m and make £10m profit, then the increase isn't funded by increased income. But it would be laughable and unfair if they tried to enforce that.

Link here - Premier League handbook. Document page 113 / pdf page 117.

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws ... 018-19.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:59 am

More bonkers at Charlton - it has been going on for some time - having recently turned down a £30m bid for the club the much maligned owner now wants the football league to buy them - effectively making them a franchise - oh and he values the League One outfit at around £70m because that is how much he feels he is owed - oh dear

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -club.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

aggi
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by aggi » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:55 am

One bit I wasn't aware of was that wage increases in excess of £7m can be funded by Averaged Three Year Player Trading Profit (average profit from player trading over the past three years). With the sale of Gray and Keane I imagine that would give us scope for another £10m or so (probably higher) in wages if we so desired.

Also, as pointed out by DSR, the limit for 2017/18 is £74m (not £67m as previously reported). I don't think it would happen but we could bump our wages up to £85m or so without breaking any rules.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:12 pm

aggi wrote:One bit I wasn't aware of was that wage increases in excess of £7m can be funded by Averaged Three Year Player Trading Profit (average profit from player trading over the past three years). With the sale of Gray and Keane I imagine that would give us scope for another £10m or so (probably higher) in wages if we so desired.

Also, as pointed out by DSR, the limit for 2017/18 is £74m (not £67m as previously reported). I don't think it would happen but we could bump our wages up to £85m or so without breaking any rules.
It could be done within the rules but in reality it's not going to happen.

A figure of £85m for this season accompanied by the very real prospect of Total Income reducing from £140m to something lower (based on the merit payment) will increase the ratio to way beyond any figure that will sit comfortably with the Board.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:15 pm

More dodgy practises at Man City - more revelations from Football Leaks on how they managed to flout the rules and have an adjunct to their global farming operation

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 55796.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am

In post 570 is Notts Forest plans to expand the City ground and a look at their 2016/17 accounts - today Swiss Ramble looks at their most recent accounts

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6553353216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

this year has been a return to form as they have return to being a loss making operation again (the previous2 years loan write offs of £63m and £40m respectively were only supplemented by a £5m write off this year). While it has long looked a bonkers club from the outside it s clear that the new ownership is trying to instil some financial order on the club with wages gradually coming down towards living within their means as the club looks to increase it's income opportunities that appear to have been poorly exploited in the recent past.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:43 pm

City Football Group already own 7 clubs as part of their global farming operation, it would seem the ambition has been for at least 10 for some time - next outpost is likely to be India some time later this year

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47447762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:43 pm

Swiss Ramble has been doing a lot of threads on the finances of Championship clubs lately - and today is no different - Preston North End are reasonably competitive in the Championship having never benefitted from Premier League TV monies (apart from the solidarity payments) -

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 7532266498" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trevor Hemmings, the owner, appears to give them a leeway of up to £5m on average losses (which is more generous than I would want our owners to be), though that wasn't necessary last season St David of Moyes gave them £10m for Jordan Hugill

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:11 pm

All credit to Preston in that they are able to report a Net Profit based on an Income of just £13.3m, albeit with a significant Profit on Player Sales.

We struggled to break-even in the Championship on similar levels of Turnover.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:18 pm

Everyone does Roy and with wages at 118% of turnover how could you not

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:34 pm

Speculation that Derby might be about to lose their own version of the "Magic Money Tree" and with supposed losses of around £3m a month (incredible really) it is hard to see why you wouldn't be fed up

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -exit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no financial results for last season yet but here is Swiss Rambles view on 2016/17

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 28?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:50 pm

Another point on PNE - Hemmings has put well over £70m into the club writing off almost half of it - we joke about Rovers and Bolton but that is some way away from a stable sustainable operation - and much more of a contribution than I would like our board to make (not that I think any of them could)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:48 pm

Rui Pnto - "John" of football leaks fame has lost his extradition battle in the Hungarian courts - this is going to get nasty for him

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ball-leaks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:18 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Another point on PNE - Hemmings has put well over £70m into the club writing off almost half of it - we joke about Rovers and Bolton but that is some way away from a stable sustainable operation - and much more of a contribution than I would like our board to make (not that I think any of them could)
At the last count Mike and JohnB had a combined net wealth of £80m compared to Trevor Hemmings' £850m, so just a small difference.

So, in terms of what each owner in able to input, it really is all relative. My information is that if Hemmings' racehorse Many Clouds had won the Grand National two years ago he would have unhesitatingly written off his outstanding loans to PNE. So, in total, a figure approaching £70m. I wonder if Venky's would have a similar approach.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:45 pm

following on from Wolves financial report yesterday - Aston Villa show what 2 years of trying to get out of the Championship (after a long stay in the Premier League) on Parachute money looks like - can't say they made great choices but the reading is painful


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47468115" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Swiss Ramble on the previous years results and their FFP challenges

https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 36?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 93?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 pm

In post #380 The Telegraph gave us a look into the astronomical finances of Barcelona and Real Madrid. following last nights mauling by Ajax they give a clear insight into how much the success of the previous 5 years has cost them (and how Juventus took advantage), Behind a paywall so copied in full -

Real Madrid's success papered over their spiralling costs – now the party is over it is clear for all to see
Sam Wallace - Chief Football Writer

All great teams must fall, it is the immutable law of the game, and so when Real Madrid’s three-straight Champions League winners fell to Ajax Amsterdam’s partly homegrown, entirely low-budget ensemble on Tuesday the moment felt like a thrilling rejuvenation of the elite game.
It went the same way for the great Ajax team of the early 1970s who won three in a row, overtaken by the Bayern Munich of the mid-part of that decade later dethroned themselves by the late 1970s, early 1980s, English hegemony of Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa. There will be a time for the modern Madrid to be celebrated for four titles in five years but not in the immediate aftermath of crashing in all three major competitions at the Bernabeu in the space of one week.

For the Madrid of the last decade, the European success of the last five years has always come at a price, one that was ultimately unsustainable for the club, ignored by a supine Spanish media, and unchallenged under the autocracy of the president Florentino Perez. As long as there was glory in the Champions League it never seemed to matter that the club were borrowing to pay a spiralling wage bill, selling players to stay in profit and staggering under a delayed, debt-heavy stadium redevelopment.

That Madrid have sustained the myth that they are the natural final destination for every great player is as remarkable as anything else they have achieved in the last five years. To recap what this column has long reported, their last financial reports were published on the final day of June, 24 hours before they pay their bi-annual wage bill which was, in the most recent accounts, €207 million for the half year. At a stroke that wiped out the €190 million cash reserves that had been framed in some quarters as the transfer budget for the following year.

To meet the shortfall ten days later the club sold Cristiano Ronaldo to Juventus, with an up-front payment of €50 million that meant for this year they may not have been obliged to borrow to cover their existing wage bill. With the fee booked and Ronaldo’s previous salary commitments to 2021 divested, the club avoided projecting a €87 million loss that even Perez would have struggled to explain to the membership.

Ronaldo’s direct replacement, the Dominican Republic international Mariano, who returned to the club from Lyon, has scored just one Champions League goal this season. Thibaut Courtois was signed in return for Chelsea being waived their second payment on the striker Alvaro Morata, whom Madrid had sold them in the summer of 2017 in order to claw back accounting losses in that final year. One year later, Ronaldo, the greatest goalscorer in Madrid’s history was sold to do the same, and only now is the failure to adequately replace him being felt eight months later.

When the list of players in whom Madrid would be interested is inevitably drawn up, the question is never the most fundamental: what are they to sign them with? Madrid’s public accounts reveal they simply do not have the cash for the huge up-front payment for Harry Kane or, even more implausible, Kylian Mbappe. Even Eden Hazard, whose contract situation makes him a more realistic target, would have to be a buy now, pay later. Chelsea’s director Marina Granovskaia may well ask why she would want to risk facing Madrid in the Champions League next season, with her club’s current best player on the opposing side, for little immediate financial gain.

There is the enduring belief that somehow, the Spanish state will bail out Madrid. The reality is that whatever Perez’s allies in Spain’s Popular Party might have liked, the development of the Bernabeu has been made much more difficult by the election of left-wing city councils who are not so amenable to the club’s expansionist ambitions. The outcome of local elections in May will be critical. Even the man who controls ACS, Spain’s biggest construction company, has not been able to push through a Bernabeu redevelopment first proposed in 2011.

At the club’s previous assembly in July, Perez was given the mandate to borrow €575 million to redevelop the Bernabeu, a project that will add a shopping centre but not a single extra standard seat. Still no news, eight months on, as to where the money is coming from, but strong suggestions that now banks in the United States have been approached rather than the once pliable Spanish banks.

With two Barcelona defeats in four days accounting for the club’s cup and league hopes, and then the Ajax comeback, Perez needs a distraction more than ever. Yet everything the club has done recently has been aimed at saving money, from the disastrously-timed appointment of the cut-price Spain manager Julen Lopetegui, to his hapless cut-price successor Santiago Solari. Last June, the club forecast a slight fall in its wage bill which has been bloated by Champions League win bonuses, but shortly after that gave a big new contract to Luka Modric.

There were chants calling for Perez’s resignation on Tuesday night, and there is low-level opposition to the 71-year-old but given his rewriting of club statutes that require any candidate to have a bank guarantee of almost €100 million, meaningful change is difficult. This is a great squad of players now clearly past their best with big contracts that mean they have little sell-on value. There is no cash to make changes. Any presidential successor would have all the problems and none of the trophies.

All great teams must fall, but some fall harder than others. The Madrid side of this decade could be hard to love but they were a great European team: patient, ruthless and at their best on the big occasion. While they were successful, there was an easy distraction from what they cost. Now the party is over, and the price looks extraordinary.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:54 pm

We have read (on this thread) in recent weeks Jon Nicolson's view on the money in football, So last night's result in Paris gave another Jon (Wilson) the chance to stick the proverbial boot in to those who seem more money than sport focused

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... e-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:07 pm

It has taken a fair few weeks but UEFA have finally confirmed they are investigating Man City over FFP breaches

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47490375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... league-ban" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -City.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:23 pm

The power struggle in the Football League continues t show it's impact - Championship clubs want more money and influence - The first victim was the Chair of the league now the interim chair has said I have had enough - it is getting rather messy there and looks likely to get a lot worse


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... cted-step/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:14 pm

FIFA looking at capping the fees agents can claim and limiting who pays them and who they represent - not before time in my view but will it actually happen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... d-fee-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:19 pm

Chester Perry wrote:FIFA looking at capping the fees agents can claim and limiting who pays them and who they represent - not before time in my view but will it actually happen

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... d-fee-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That seems so obviously a good thing that I can't see why it isn't in already. How can an agent work for a club and the player anyway? If United offer Smith's agent £x million if Smith moves to them, how can the agent possibly be working in utmost good faith for Smith?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:34 pm

Much has been made of Man City's farming operation yet we know little about what happens at the club itself with it's young players. Yes we have had reports on this board about all the sessions they run and inviting young teams to their training complex, This report, however, is quite disconcerting to say the least.

http://trainingground.guru/articles/man ... te-madness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:36 pm

dsr wrote:That seems so obviously a good thing that I can't see why it isn't in already. How can an agent work for a club and the player anyway? If United offer Smith's agent £x million if Smith moves to them, how can the agent possibly be working in utmost good faith for Smith?
Doesn't it just - I am sure this has been tried before, I do think it will be difficult to implement and as the article says it could lead to a very shadowy set of practices

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:22 am

Much discussion on this board about the 2017*18 financial results of Wolves last week - Swiss Ramble has now done his analysis

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6124211202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Chelsea thought appealing against their transfer ban would allow them to buy in the summer - like both Barcelona and Real Madrid have done in the past - apparently not - they are not happy chappies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47500863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:34 pm

The Premier League are now investigating Man City over FFP following yesterday's announcement from UEFA

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47501423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:04 pm

So with the Premier League joining the investigation fest into Man City - they have achieved their first quadruple of the season - parallel investigations by FIFA, UEFA, The FA and the Premier League - that is almost as remarkable achievement as the other one they are after. Naturally someone is looking to make some money out of it - Watford for the Sancho steal

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... k-premier/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:26 am

Chester Perry wrote:Chelsea thought appealing against their transfer ban would allow them to buy in the summer - like both Barcelona and Real Madrid have done in the past - apparently not - they are not happy chappies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47500863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good. They're seriously suggesting that none of the 29 boys they are convicted of illegally signing, were in any way approached by Chelsea and paid to come? All 29 sets of parents decided of their own accord to come to the UK and just happened to sign for Chelsea?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:28 am

An interesting contrast in how different countries and authorities (UEFA not using it) want to use the Football Leaks data - including the possibility that It may get destroyed before it can be used.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -City.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FIFA on the other hand have been using the documents apparently

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... clubs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 am

You escape relegation with an improbable late run of form, next season that form carries on and you win the league n what is viewed as freak circumstances (all the big clubs were in transition/turmoil), the following season you progress deep into the Champions League and post world record profits for a football club, but are mediocre in the league and fail to qualify for Europe, how do you cope with the financial adjustment. Swiss Ramble looks at Leicester's financial results for 2017/18

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 9335133184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm

Can only be described as a startling three year period in the history of any football club.

Can't remember how close they came to relegation in the first of those three seasons but the next season was simply a fairytale and fully justified the film script that followed. The £70m UEFA Income boosted their Turnover to a mindblowing £233m. Now they return to realistic financial figures and it's unlikely they will ever trouble the top six again.

Regarding the film with Vardy centre-stage, I always felt that our own story of 1910 to 1921 justified a film being produced. Manager John Haworth is appointed via tragic circumstances, makes Tommy Boyle his key signing the following year, Boyle captains the side to win the FA Cup in 1914 then goes off to fight for his country in WW1 only to suffer life threatening injuries. Incredibly he returns to league football after the War and captains Burnley to the First Division Championship in 1921 including the record 30 game unbeaten run having lost the first three games of the season. Two years later manager Haworth dies from pneumonia aged just 48 years.

You really couldn't make it up and yet it happened to our Club and fully warrants more recognition, even to this day.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Goody1975 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:19 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Can't remember how close they came to relegation in the first of those three seasons.
I'd ask Matt Taylor the answer, if he scores that penalty there is a fair chance they could have gone down. Their momentum continued and the rest is history.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:38 pm

Man City launch an abuse victim payment fund

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47532719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How does a club that can get so much wrong also get so much right (thinking of football quality and education of it's academy players as shining examples of the good)

don't want to believe that this is a cynical move with all the recent negative press

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:58 am

In all fairness City have been spot on with their behaviour throughout this issue, even before the negative press started appearing.

Crewe, in particular, could learn a lot from City and they don't necessarily have to include the financial aspect because they probably can't afford it.

Chelsea can afford it but don't appear to be interested.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:26 am

Aston Villa's battle to get back out of the Championship is in it's 3rd season (final one with parachute payments) last year they missed out on promotion in the play-off final, a result that sparked a financial crises (with a missed HMRC payment and ultimately led to new ownership. Swiss Rmble looks at their 2017/18 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6868957184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with combined losses of £130m + over the last 3 seasons it is hard to see on the surface how they have avoided FFP -

2016/17 analysis https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/ ... 36?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The price of football however seem to thnk it is straightforward

http://priceoffootball.com/aston-villa-and-ffp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:59 am

Chester Perry wrote:Aston Villa's battle to get back out of the Championship is in it's 3rd season (final one with parachute payments) last year they missed out on promotion in the play-off final, a result that sparked a financial crises (with a missed HMRC payment and ultimately led to new ownership. Swiss Rmble looks at their 2017/18 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6868957184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A seriously high Wage bill for the Championship of £73.1m.........higher than Burnley's in the Premier League.

So not difficult to understand the root cause of the problems at Villa.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:08 am

That was my initial thought Roy - their problems are long-standing though - losses every year for a decade-in the Premier League for 8 of them - absolute nuts - or as Swiss Ramble headlined their 2014/15 results "This house is a circus"

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2016/03 ... ircus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You will see I added how they have so far avoided FFP to my previous post

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:11 am

Great work from you two on this thread, always worth reading and digesting.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:16 am

A key warning to all in that 2014/15 review by Swiss Ramble is

"Much of the blame for Villa’s woes has been laid at the feet of owner Randy Lerner. Fundamentally, the American appears to be a good man, pumping vast sums of money into the club, but he seemingly has little idea how to run a football club."

how many times have we seen this in the last decade or so yet there are fans at almost every club that want to bring someone of that financial profile into their club

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by LeadBelly » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:27 am

I can't see Villa getting promotion this season. They have to overtake Forest, Bristol City and Derby to even get into the play-offs; then only a one in 4 chance (at best) of getting to the Premier.
As outlined in the SwissRamble analysis, they cease having parachute payments next season and will have to cut costs significantly/sell players to generate more income.
The analyst here suggests 2018/19 will see a loss of £39 million which would take the 3 year total losses to £64 million; £25 million over losses allowable under FFP (though they could sell players to set against that)
Scary times for them & a crunch away game at Forest tomorrow night (if they don't win that they may even end up trailing Birmingham City in the league).

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:36 am

LeadBelly indeed - and don't forget that profit making PNE are on a real charge too

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:38 am

I see their Broadcast Income (parachute payment) is £40m, down from £48m in the first year.

What is the value of their third and final parachute payment in this financial year ?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:49 am

That will be £15m Roy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_L ... y_Payments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those worried about the plight of our club we do not yet know what the payments will be in the new cycle of TV rights (if the expected growth in International TV rights fails to materialise it could be less than the current sum - things have been very quiet on that front)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:04 am

Chester Perry wrote:A key warning to all in that 2014/15 review by Swiss Ramble is

"Much of the blame for Villa’s woes has been laid at the feet of owner Randy Lerner. Fundamentally, the American appears to be a good man, pumping vast sums of money into the club, but he seemingly has little idea how to run a football club."

how many times have we seen this in the last decade or so yet there are fans at almost every club that want to bring someone of that financial profile into their club
Despite this thread there appear to be more than a few on here who don't see issues with someone pumping money into a club to artificially inflate it's league position etc.

You'd think they'd see Bolton down the road to get an understanding of why it's a bad idea, but they don't for whatever reason.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:14 am

It used to be the norm with Fixed term employment contracts (universal in football for players and managers) that you paid up the whole deal if you sacked them (a particular concern for managers), then it was you paid up until they got new employment (and if the new wage was below the current, then the difference had to be paid until the original contract ran out - Joe Hart is currently benefitting from such a deal).

Some clubs are notorious for their turnover of managers and the vast sums they subsequently have to pay out has a detrimental effect on their bottom line - particularly when most of the backroom is changed at the same time. Chelsea appear to have had enough of this in the case of Conte though.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... Court.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:19 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Despite this thread there appear to be more than a few on here who don't see issues with someone pumping money into a club to artificially inflate it's league position etc.

You'd think they'd see Bolton down the road to get an understanding of why it's a bad idea, but they don't for whatever reason.
Only a small proportion of board users read this thread - which is why you often see posts made on here have new threads started on the board several hours later which generate far more traffic than this thread does. I don't mind as it keeps the posts on point rather diverting randomly.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:29 am

Speaking of fixed term contracts - I imagine Man Utd will have to top any salary paid by a club taking Alexis Sanchez on loan - or not receive much of a loan fee - matching that would be a tough ask in most boardrooms - though there are only a few clubs he would probably want to go to

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -loan.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:36 am

Chester Perry wrote:That will be £15m Roy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_L ... y_Payments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For those worried about the plight of our club we do not yet know what the payments will be in the new cycle of TV rights (if the expected growth in International TV rights fails to materialise it could be less than the current sum - things have been very quiet on that front)
Right.........In which case the Loss for the current financial year will be considerably higher than the £39m suggested by LeadBelly higher up the thread. A drop of £25m alone in Broadcast Income coupled with a no doubt further increase in Wage bill will result in a Net Loss nearer to £60m.

A frightening figure for the new owners at Aston Villa and the only way to avoid that would be to sell their only real saleable asset......Jack Grealish.

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