Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:17 pm

Timely piece from the 21stclub.com on transfer prices proportionate to revenue pro-rata to the expected transformative value to the team's performance

https://www.21stclub.com/2019/07/25/the ... d-defence/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@FootballLaw the author and football lawyer Daniel Geey says
"As a rule of thumb, clubs generally spend less than 5% of revenues on squad players, 5-12% on players expected to go straight into the first team and 13%+ on star players expected to have a significant impact on results."

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:41 pm

A piece from Sheridan's Sports Law on sports documentaries - why you do it (commercial opportunity obviously) and the legal practicalities - a growing media trend in recent years

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sports-d ... 43c5565e27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:28 pm

Barcelona have announced another revenue rise for the 2018/19 season though profits have fallen - that revenue is astonishing Euro 990m - yet we will comfortably make more profit than their Euro 17m I believe


https://en.as.com/en/2019/07/24/footbal ... 93247.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:33 pm

The sheer breadth of coverage of that Liverpool Trademark application (see post #1745 http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is staggering


https://twitter.com/AgainstLeague3/stat ... 5676805120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Classes and terms

Class 9
Software; downloadable software; mobile apps; podcasts; downloadable podcasts; mobile apps; software applications; software for the provision, development and editing of podcasts; all of the aforesaid goods relating to the sport of football. .

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Class 25
Clothing, footwear, headgear; tracksuits; socks; jogging trousers; scarves; hats and caps; underwear; shorts; trainers; jerseys; shirts; uniforms; boots; singlets; all of the aforesaid goods being sporting goods used for playing the sport of football, or being memorabilia in connection with a football club.

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Telecommunications; Broadcasting services; messaging services; video, audio and television streaming services; live transmissions accessible via home pages on the internet; data communication services accessible by access code; providing access to databases; providing access to internet chatrooms; online messaging; information, advisory and consultancy services relating to all of the aforesaid; all of the aforementioned relating to the sport of football.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:45 pm

Interesting thread on the Liverpool Trademark application

https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1154664769917509632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:49 pm

Article about the growth of professional roles that have developed around football as the business side has grown - la liga based but easily transposed across the game - from FC Business

http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/comment-fo ... -profiles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:29 pm

Notts County have been sold - hopefully staff will now get paid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48282230" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Following all the positive press regarding Everton's proposals for it's new ground at Bramley Dock @JonathonLiew asks can football stadiums still serve the public good? - it covers some themes I have posted on this thread before

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 22831.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:33 pm

Martin Samuel at the Mail talks to Mike Ashley - obviously PR - but there are a few of us on here that think Ashley has been inexcusably attacked for the sound financial management of that club and he pleads his case

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... owner.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and that full piece on Rafa

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... astle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:58 pm

The Times takes a look at the mess in the pyramid and the authorities who apparently do not know what to do about it


Historic clubs being driven into dirt – yet game does nothing
Travels around the country made clear the scale of unease as clubs struggle financially, writes Gregor Robertson

A week before the EFL season gets under way, Bury have four registered first-team players. For a recent pre-season friendly against Nantwich Town, the Shakers submitted a team sheet with 22 players named “Trialist”. Ryan Lowe, their former manager who led a buccaneering team to automatic promotion from League Two last season, departed for Plymouth Argyle this summer. So far five players, among a host who have cancelled their contracts because they have not been paid in months, have followed Lowe south to Home Park.

Believe it or not, Bury have bigger worries. On Thursday, the EFL threatened the club with expulsion in 14 days if Steve Dale, their owner, fails to provide evidence of how he intends to pay creditors under the terms of their company voluntary arrangement.

Seven days before Notts County’s first season in non-League football gets under way, the club still do not have any strips. It appears, at the time of writing, that their interminable takeover saga is reaching a conclusion, so the famous black and white strips will hopefully now be paid for and delivered from the supplier’s warehouse. Lilian Greenwood, the local MP, had approached Juventus, whom the Magpies furnished with a kit in 1903, to ask if they would return the favour. How times change. At least a fourth visit to the High Court on Wednesday over an unpaid £250,000 tax bill, and the very real prospect of liquidation, should now be averted.

Bolton Wanderers, like Bury, will begin life in League One with a 12-point deduction, the result of becoming the first professional club to enter administration since Aldershot Town in 2013. Bolton’s fall from grace has been lengthy and well documented. They, too, have a shell of a team. Players have not been paid in more than 20 weeks. A series of pre-season friendlies have been cancelled. Meanwhile, the sale of the club to the Football Ventures consortium, their prospective new owners, has been “imminent” for too long and faith in their levels of funding, and the club’s administrator, is gradually eroding.

Faith in the game’s governing bodies has been eroding for some time now too. Catastrophic mismanagement by owners with dubious motives and business histories, unsustainable levels of debt and a regulatory framework that looks increasingly unfit for purpose does not paint a pretty picture.

To travel around the country last season left no doubt about the scale of unease. Oldham Athletic, Morecambe and Macclesfield Town’s players were all paid late last season. The same is true of players of Oxford United, Reading and Southend United. Add to that the long-running disputes between maligned owners and embattled supporters of Charlton Athletic, Port Vale, Hull City, Blackpool and Coventry City, who must watch their team play their home games in Birmingham next season, and the picture is even bleaker.

Financial distress? Dodgy owners? Nothing new there, of course. More than 40 professional football clubs have faced administration in the past 25 years, some on more than one occasion. Insolvencies spiked at the turn of the century, catalysed by the collapse of ITV Digital in 2002-03 — around which time ten clubs entered administration, but since then the number in professional football has largely been in decline. Yet players, staff and bills are being paid late more regularly than ever before, winding-up petitions are being issued with increasing regularity, in part as a result of a more aggressive approach to collecting tax from HMRC. Seventeen clubs were issued with winding-up petitions in the five seasons between 2012-13 and 2016-17, eight were issued with winding-up petitions last season alone.

In the Championship, an increasingly cosmopolitan race for the riches of the Premier League meant all but five of 24 clubs ended 2017-18 in the red (in League One six clubs were in profit and in League Two eight). According to Kieran Maguire, a football finance lecturer at the University of Liverpool, in the five seasons up to 2017-18, while Championship clubs’ income and wage spend increased by more than 50 per cent, operating losses more than doubled and net losses totalled more than £1.1 billion.

A “new breed’ of owners, Maguire says, who are “prepared to underwrite losses in the short term to reach the Premier League”, and for whom “losing £50 million a year is not an issue”, has led to “creative accountants circumnavigating FFP [financial fair play] rules” — as we have seen with Aston Villa, Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday selling their stadiums and leasing them back from the club’s owners.

The nine-point deduction for Birmingham City in March for exceeding permitted profitability and sustainability losses of £39 million over three seasons may convince some Championship clubs to rein in spending. With less than two weeks of the transfer window remaining, the division’s 24 clubs have parted with about a third of the £200 million that they spent last summer. After the success of Sheffield United and Norwich City last season, who prospered through intelligent recruitment, coaching and leadership, there are hopes that more clubs may adopt a more long-term ethos.

Luton Town’s unprecedented 30-point deduction for failing to adhere to insolvency rules led to them plummeting from the Championship to the Conference a decade ago. David Wilkinson, the Luton chairman and an original member of the 2020 consortium that bought Luton from administrators, has seen first-hand the “trickle-down” effect of inflated spending as clubs stretch themselves to compete. After securing back-to-back promotions, Luton are preparing for a return to a very different second tier, where the average wage bill now stands at £28 million.

“We can’t compete with big transfer fees and we can’t compete with big salaries — if we do, we’ll end up where we did as a club before,” Wilkinson says. “We’d rather be relegated than go back to that. The club is more important than the league we’re in. So what we’ve done, at least for now, is spend a lot more on scouting and coaching, because we think that’s the only way we can compete — to be better, sign cheaper.”
In 2017-18 player sales meant that the club turned a small profit for the first time and this summer the full backs Jack Stacey and James Justin have been sold to Bournemouth and Leicester City for a combined sum of about £14 million.

In a bid to improve regulation, supporters’ groups’ have proposed a new owners’ and directors’ test that would include assessment of a business plan, relevant skills and capabilities. A code of practice on stewardship, the adherence to which would be monitored, has also been mooted.

Tightened restrictions surrounding the way in which the purchase of football clubs is funded, greater protection of their assets and a bond delivery from proposed owners, which would be forfeited in the event of any default in payment of wages or taxes, have been consulted upon too. The most ambitious proposal, championed by Andy Holt, the Accrington Stanley owner, and supporters groups, is the introduction of an independent
regulator, which some believe should come under the auspices of the FA, which would almost certainly require government legislation. But it is easy to be persuaded by such an idea when, as things stand, the EFL (and Premier League and National League) — which are members’ clubs, with hugely varying priorities, ambitions and agendas — are in effect self-regulatory.

Holt, Wilkinson and others admit, in private discussions with their fellow EFL owners and directors, that there is an acknowledgment that the status quo is unsustainable.

“Turkeys won’t vote for Christmas,” Holt says. “They won’t vote for something that might restrict them from having a gamble, or getting their money back. They’re of a mindset: it’s their money, they’ll do what they want. But in doing what they want, they jack up costs for everybody, including Accrington. Players, wages, gradually pumping up the bubble.”

Clubs can never be completely safeguarded. But doesn’t the game owe it to Bury, Bolton, Notts County, and the next club, to try?

Clubs in trouble
Late wage payments
Bolton Wanderers, Reading, Bury, Oldham Athletic, Oxford United, Southend United, Macclesfield Town, Morecambe, Notts County

Winding-up petitions served
Oxford, Macclesfield, Bury, Bolton, Notts County, Southend, Ipswich Town, Morecambe

Fan protests/boycotts
(last season) Charlton Athletic, Hull City, Blackpool, Coventry City, Bolton, Port Vale

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Meanwhile Nottingham Forest appear to have taken a punt on the coming season - fans can be thankful that it is via a share issue rather than a loan

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9411898368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:54 pm

(Sir) Les Ferdinand Director of Football at QPR on the "joke" that is the loophole of ground sale and leaseback to avoid FFP - try to ignore the fact that QPR's owners stuck 2 fingers up to FFP not that long ago

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/n ... ole/169460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:03 pm

A detailed repost to that Mike Ashley Interview (see post #1759 http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1758" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) from Guardian reporter @KevinJRawlinson (I suspect he is a Geordie)

https://twitter.com/KevinJRawlinson/sta ... 5772958720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:13 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Martin Samuel at the Mail talks to Mike Ashley - obviously PR - but there are a few of us on here that think Ashley has been inexcusably attacked for the sound financial management of that club and he pleads his case

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... owner.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and that full piece on Rafa

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... astle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's difficult enough to keep pace with all the behind the scenes activity at your own Club, but reading that interview with Mike Ashley he appears to be a genuine enough bloke who is prepared to allow any Newcastle fan access to the Club's accounts. The problem is they are somewhere in the middle between us and the top six, and as such their expectations are higher than ours.

Maybe Benitez was always going for the money in China, no matter what he was offered at Newcastle.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:44 pm

If perchance you want to buy a full replica kit of your favourite team - just be glad you support Burnley

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... t-161.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:51 pm

Interesting take on Gareth Bale's potential transfer to China - owners of the team want to own a stake in Bale's agent's and they also own Inter Milan - seems similar to Fosun - Wolves - Gestifute by Simon Chadwick


https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 3321228288" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:54 am

I have argued the case many times and it is the reason I don't like debt in football (or my own life for that matter) - @AndyhHolt on why football is a business unlike any other

https://twitter.com/OhNoItsSteve/status ... 8110178304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:20 pm

Notts county are the 3rd football club that I am aware of that are owned by a specialist in Football Analystics for betting purposes - Others being Brighton and Brentford.

https://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/news/20 ... nt-260719/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange given the FA's own rules on betting, which we know are themselves strange and a little inconsistent - a club or a group of players representing a club can promote a betting operation but not a single player for instance.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Notts county are the 3rd football club that I am aware of that are owned by a specialist in Football Analystics for betting purposes - Others being Brighton and Brentford.

https://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/news/20 ... nt-260719/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange given the FA's own rules on betting, which we know are themselves strange and a little inconsistent - a club or a group of players representing a club can promote a betting operation but not a single player for instance.
Stoke City ?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:I have argued the case many times and it is the reason I don't like debt in football (or my own life for that matter) - @AndyhHolt on why football is a business unlike any other

https://twitter.com/OhNoItsSteve/status ... 8110178304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
".........That's why good owners engage with the fans more intensely than those who don't see a football club as anything other than a business.........."

Quite a poignant statement there at the link and one which fans of our own Club might want to consider. When was the last time we actually heard anything from Mike G or John B ?...........We had an AGM at Burnley for over 100 years until the current Board decided it was surplus to requirements in 2012. That decision severed the last direct link of communication that supporters had with the Club and it was unsurprising the reaction from many questioning the real motives behind that decision.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:04 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Stoke City ?


that is 4 but a little different to the other 3 - still a mockery of the rules

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:38 pm

Apparently Arsenal are beating Napoli to the signing of Pepe because they are willing to pay his agent more than Napoli are - this tweet also includes totals for the last 10 years spent on agents by the top 6 - some crazy numbers there

https://twitter.com/Matt5cott/status/11 ... 7478523904" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Apparently Arsenal are beating Napoli to the signing of Pepe because they are willing to pay his agent more than Napoli are - this tweet also includes totals for the last 10 years spent on agents by the top 6 - some crazy numbers there

https://twitter.com/Matt5cott/status/11 ... 7478523904" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Between 2010 and 2019 ?........I wonder if he has a figure for our Club ?......I'd guess at £5m tops.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:48 pm

Paul Pogba’s agent will earn £41 million from the player’s move to Manchester United, according to a book published in Germany this week.

The book Football Leaks: The Dirty Business of Football claims that Mino Raiola was entitled to £22.8 million of the £89 million fee paid by United to Juventus to sign Pogba last summer. It alleges that the agent is also due more than £16 million in further payments and an additional £2.2 million from the player, taking his total earnings from the deal to £41 million.
This highlights all that is wrong with Agents and the fees they take in for themselves.

I'm guessing he got paid the £22.8 million by Juventus?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:57 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:This highlights all that is wrong with Agents and the fees they take in for themselves.

I'm guessing he got paid the £22.8 million by Juventus?
Absolute madness, although to be fair (and to our credit), it's not something we are heavily involved in.

Probably our outlay was the least of the PL clubs over that period.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by levraiclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:46 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Absolute madness, although to be fair (and to our credit), it's not something we are heavily involved in.

Probably our outlay was the least of the PL clubs over that period.
I wonder if this has any bearing on our difficulties in the transfer market?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:54 pm

levraiclaret wrote:I wonder if this has any bearing on our difficulties in the transfer market?
That will be the only downside to the policy we adopt. And perhaps we're about to see the results of that over the next couple of days.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:13 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Between 2010 and 2019 ?........I wonder if he has a figure for our Club ?......I'd guess at £5m tops.
I suspect well over to double that Roy - last published 12month figure was alsmost double that - https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/bur ... -1-9692347" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and previous 2 seasons were £2.6m and £3.3m

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43632830" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:I suspect well over to double that Roy - last published 12month figure was alsmost double that - https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/bur ... -1-9692347" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and previous 2 seasons were £2.7m and £3.3m
Certainly higher than I thought, but still low in comparison to all other PL clubs.

Maybe, just maybe, we were as keen to bring in Philip Billing as both Bournemouth and Brighton, and maybe, just maybe we were prepared to almost match their bids of £15m. The fact remains Billing is having a medical at Bournemouth tomorrow.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:28 pm

To my mind Billing is too far away in his development for us to commit that amount of money for him - we want more than his still quite raw potential and inconsistent performances to match a record transfer price - Bournemouth have shown themselves very happy to do that in the prem and pay substantially more to agents and players

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:24 am

Apparently Juventus have not forgotten their roots

https://twitter.com/TheSportsman/status ... 7114753024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

of course they played them in the opening match of their new club owned stadium

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... tts-county" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but they seem willing to ditch the historic stripes so that Americans do not confuse the shirt with that traditionally worn by match officials in their sports

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/juventu ... ons-league" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the relevant paragraph in that report being
"Though not universally popular, the club's new home shirt is similarly outward-looking, with Juve ditching their traditional black and white stripes for a half-black, half-white ensemble reportedly designed to appeal to fans in the United States who more readily associate monochrome stripes with sports umpires."

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:07 pm

In a move that I suspect has much more to do with FFP than magnanimity Fulham have converted £43m of loans into shares

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 4602314752" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you will probably find enough reasons for that in their last set of accounts - see post #733 (http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... &start=732" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:In a move that I suspect has much more to do with FFP than magnanimity Fulham have converted £43m of loans into shares

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 4602314752" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you will probably find enough reasons for that in their last set of accounts - see post #733 (http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... &start=732" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Only if they attempt the "QPR failed tactic" of a double entry to Income in an attempt to artificially increase Turnover thereby reducing any Net Loss. Other than that FFP will remain unaffected. Still, best we keep a close eye on this one in the coming months.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:00 pm

Mental health in sport is something that we at Burnley are becoming more familiar with - think of Clarke Carlisle, Aaron Lennon and the very recent decision of Marvin Sordell. Yet many fans feel it is their right to abuse players (either at the match or on social media) who they feel are not good enough, Jeff Hendrick and Charlie Taylor being recent examples - even though they give their all. Then you have the players whose contribution is curtailed through injury, and who you know are desperate to play and contribute, they are often called a waste of money or even accused of stealing a wage - I refuse to believe that of Defour or Walters (2 players that have been given these tags at our club) want/wanted anything other than to play for us, yet have had to face this type of abuse.

The Independent are doing a feature week of Mental Health in sport - it is likely to be disturbing at times - the introductory article

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/the ... 41816.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The holding page for the series

https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/the-sporting-mind" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:32 pm

We have read articles from Daniel Geey on the football transfer process and activities that go on behind the scenes - here he is on the This is moneyball podcast talking about the approaching close of the transfer window - I have not listened yet - but should be informative as he is conscious of his reputation

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mon ... yball.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Many on this board don't think the debt and billion plus in repayments so far is an issue for Manchester United - some Utd fans have worked out that at the current rate of decrease it will take 158 years to clear the debt landed on the club by the Glazer family to fund it's purchase - from the Telegraph


Manchester United fans' group open letter claims club will not be free of Glazer family takeover debt 'for 158 years' - by Jim White

According to an open letter delivered to Old Trafford today, at the current rate of paying off the financial liability incurred when the Glazer family bought the club in 2005, it will be 158 years before Manchester United is entirely debt free.

In their letter to the family, a group of dissident supporters – which signs itself “Millions of Concerned Manchester United fans” – points out that just £44million of the more than £660m initially taken out to buy the club has been paid back.

Meaning that, in the fourteen years since the American owners took control at Old Trafford, some £750million has left the club’s bank account simply to service the debt.

In a series of five key questions, the group are demanding more transparency about the governance of United. One of the questions concerns the remuneration of the Executive Vice President Ed Woodward. It suggests that Woodward has recently received a 60 per cent pay increase on his £2.604m annual salary, taking him to £4.182m.

“Given the obvious failure on the football side during his six year tenure as EVC on what basis was that raise given?” the group demand.
It follows this up by inquiring about the glacial progress in appointing a Director of Football.

“What will be their role?” the letter goes on to ask about any putative DoF. “And will they have any power to make decisions?”

Another question centres on the flotation of some shares in the club on the New York Stock Exchange in 2012. It claims that the rise in share price has delivered a dividend of some £452million in the seven years since.

“It is unclear to fans where that money has gone. Could you detail how much (if any) has been reinvested back into the club?”

At the time of writing, the club was not delivering any comment on the letter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the letter https://twitter.com/VoiceOfMUFC/status/ ... 9289895936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the Mail with their take on it
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... egime.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:28 pm

Race to the Bottom podcast on Man City , Abu Dhabi and sportswashing - covers much of what has been posted previously - useful introduction for those who haven't read that detail - essentially an interview of Nic McGeehan who authored this http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on the use of City fans as a virtual troll army

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/r ... 1396129724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:59 pm

You can imagine Salford City's owners looking at this (they know Pique well) and then at the Bolton/Bury situation and thinking - if only

The Spanish FA grant FC Andorra 'double promotion' to Spanish third tier after their owner - #FCBarcelona defender Gerard Pique - deposited €452k fee to replace crisis-stricken Reus

https://www.football-espana.net/79500/g ... da-b-place" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


@Millar_Colin neatly bundles this story
"Multiple clubs across Spanish football are steeped in long-standing debt. For the game's governing body to grant a club a 'double promotion' on the basis that they have a rich owner does not sit well. (also a Barcelona player now owns a club in the same league as Barcelona B)."

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:19 am

@TariqPanja gives an insight into the murky world of financing in football

"Though reports suggest Arsenal will get 5 years to pay Lille €80m fee for Pepe, chances are Lille would have sold that on to a third party financing company in return for about €70/75m. It will be that company that will be paid over 5 years."

Explains the higher fee - Lille get what they want and now and some bankers get to make money out of football again!!

The full thread on that tweet gives more detail - https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1 ... 3710715906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:36 am

following the above post I have started looking at factoring in football

apparently Leicester did it for the Mahrez transfer - https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/11/12/ ... ad-Mahrez/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This article from 2017 talks about factoring for buying clubs and using future tv revenues

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 23016.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- which would explain all those PL clubs posting credit facilities against future TV revenues. Burnley are possibly the only club in the Premier League that do not do this currently (I am sure they have in the recent past) preferring to use their own cash reserves

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:17 pm

Blackpool's new owners do what the previous didn't - publish their 2017/18 accounts - @KieranMaguirre takes a peek

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0583150592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Add them to the list of clubs that do not own their own ground

There is more input from Kieran in this piece with the local rag

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/spor ... -1-9905590" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:54 pm

Part 2 of the Independent's Sporting Mind series - looking at mental Health in sport - today the pain and mental trauma that comes with serious injury - it is pretty obvious that there is a reluctance/budget constraint on medical bills here, together as a complete lack of awareness of the psychological impact on the player,

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/the ... 99096.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT - This story on an Ipswich Academy player referred to in the above link is horrendous

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 42116.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

introduction and part 1 of the series can be found here in post 1784 (http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:02 pm

The now annual list of football academy's product playing in the Premier League has been released - we are bottom naturally but that could change this season with Dwight playing even more, the addition of Jay and possibly Benson, Dunne and Koiki getting some game time.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 26536.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:24 pm

Remember that question from @RobHarris to Pep immediately after the cup final about other earnings from AbuDhabi - it opens the podcast I linked yesterday in post #1787 (http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1786" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) - I find it intriguing that new City kit manufacturer Puma have entered into a separate deal with him - why not include him in the club deal.

https://sponsorship.sportbusiness.com/n ... guardiola/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

of course it could be in his contract that he can make his own deals, but at who's suggestion? - up to now at City he wore stone island before that grey Diesel cardigan (a personal deal for that) when city also signed a deal with Diesel for player clothing. This just smacks of City paying Pep more indirectly via their commercial partners, - There is also a Nissan deal signed a few weeks ago with club and Pep - separate deals, same sponsor

https://sponsorship.sportbusiness.com/n ... mbassador/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:35 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Blackpool's new owners do what the previous didn't - publish their 2017/18 accounts - @KieranMaguirre takes a peek

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0583150592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Add them to the list of clubs that do not own their own ground

There is more input from Kieran in this piece with the local rag

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/spor ... -1-9905590" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some eye-watering figures there in the eagerly awaited Blackpool accounts to Jun'18. Income of just £3.3m and that with a financial year comprising 13 months!........and a Wage bill that is still far too high at 128% of Turnover.

It's interesting to compare the different direction that Blackpool and Burnley have taken in recent seasons. We were promoted in 2009 and they came up I think the following year. Both clubs initially had one year in the Prem but whereas we came back in 2014 (just as our parachute payments ran out) Blackpool never looked like regaining a place at the top table.

This is where a difference in approach from the respective owners was crucial, we made the sensible decision to prioritise repayment of all debts whilst Karl Oyston considered it a good idea to pay himself a dividend of a mere £11million.

First impressions of the new guy at Blackpool are favourable but he starts from a very poor financial position whereas we at Burnley move from strength to strength. I can be critical of our Burnley Board at times, mainly due to lack of communication with shareholders and supporters, but there are lots of reasons to be grateful for the direction in which they've taken the Club.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:07 pm

just got round to listening to the podcast I linked yesterday in post #1785 (http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) with Daniel Geey @FootballLaw on transfers - he is really good and gives a really deep level of detail on everything we normally don't consider as fans well worth the 50 mins or so of time. The interviewers are annoying though.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:24 pm

We know top footballers get endorsements on top of their salaries from partners and we are becoming much more acquainted with the notion of influencers who get paid for social media posts - but just how much can a player earn for the same thing - the numbers are remarkable

https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 7536747520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Following yesterdays posts on "factoring" (#1789 #1790 http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=1788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) more finance gymnastics - this time in Italy

https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articl ... bond-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is perhaps a more established approach to financing - once used as a means of financing new stadia but now just for restructuring debt - however sensible the move is (if it reduces interest and management costs) it just re-affirms my no debt in football desire

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by tiger76 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:27 pm

Notts County settle their debts and can hopefully build towards a FL return.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49165776

Credit to the new owners having their priorities correct,and not going down the Bolton route.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:23 pm

Amazon are arranging for their matches to be offered to pubs and clubs via BT's offering - from the Telegraph

Amazon Prime Video join forces with BT Sport to allow their Premier League games to be shown in pubs - Sam Wallace, Chief Football Writer
30 July 2019 • 3:49pm

Amazon Prime Video will announce an alliance with BT Sport this week that will allow the US internet streaming giant, a newcomer to Premier League rights in the United Kingdom, to offer a package to pubs to show the 20 games it has acquired.

The “Amazon Premier League Pass” will be marketed by BT Sport and pubs and clubs will use existing set-top equipment to access it, suggesting a level of cooperation between the two smaller stake rights holder against Sky Sports, which still dominates live coverage in the UK.

Pubs and clubs spent between £10,000 and £30,000 per year depending on their size for the rights to broadcast live Premier League football in the UK in the previous three-year rights cycle when Sky Sports and BT Sport divided the live games between them. Pubs will now pay a further fee to broadcast the two rounds of ten Amazon Prime games – the first December midweek fixtures and the Boxing Day programme. There will be no requirement to be an existing BT Sport customer.

The fee for an Amazon Premier League Pass is expected to be between £100 to £600 depending on the size of the licensed premises and will be marketed by BT Sport. The earnings from commercial premises are a crucial part of the business plan for the three broadcasters who have spent more than £5 billion between them on live Premier League UK rights for the next three seasons. That was a fall in value of around £400m from the 2016-2019 cycle of domestic rights.

For the next three seasons, starting next month, Sky has the rights to 128 games and BT Sport a further 52. Amazon Prime are the new force and there will be considerable interest in the industry as to how they handle their two full fixture programmes which will offer subscribers access to any of the ten games being played. As things stand, the growth market for the Premier League is in overseas rights which saw a rise of more than 30 per cent in the auction for the 2019-2022 cycle to £4.2 billion.

However, Amazon Prime are the biggest company ever to own UK Premier League rights. Although they have acquired just a fraction of the market so far it will be the internet company’s intentions for the next cycle of rights, from 2022 to 2025 which will be crucial to the future of the Premier League’s domestic value.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

given that one of these is Boxing day (though likely to be spread over 3 days at multiple times - these could be quite a good commercial offering

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