An fascinating report - The cost of injury - looking at the Premier League in the 2018/19 season
https://www.catapultsports.com/the-cost ... -754710770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Football's Magic Money Tree
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Chester Perry
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Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Commendable stuff from Partick Thistle, a set of accounts an English League One club would be proud of. A perfect Wages/Income ratio of 64% and they've even eliminated any director's pay during the last financial year.Chester Perry wrote:How normal professional (traditional?) football survives - Partick Thistle publishes detailed accounts for 2018/19, a season that saw them drop to the 3rd tier of Scottish football - these financials are similar to a lower league 2 team in England that would not produce anything so transparent
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8588535809" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Clearly no player additions or disposals for several years, therefore really strange to see no player amortisation.
A superbly run club, at least off the pitch. Almost a carbon copy of ours, albeit on a much smaller scale.
Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
You obviously haven't been keeping up with them over the last few months. Partick have turned into a joke and are at serious risk of it getting even worse if they're taken over by the clowns who run Barnsley.
The best case is that Euromillions winner Colin Weir funds a fan-led group to take over.
The best case is that Euromillions winner Colin Weir funds a fan-led group to take over.
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Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Well those accounts are to Jun'19 so if there are any financial problems they must be very recent. Absolutely nothing wrong with those figures, although clearly a different situation on the pitch. They even boast a healthy bank balance, something rarely seen in our lower leagues.Walton wrote:You obviously haven't been keeping up with them over the last few months. Partick have turned into a joke and are at serious risk of it getting even worse if they're taken over by the clowns who run Barnsley.
The best case is that Euromillions winner Colin Weir funds a fan-led group to take over.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The Telegraph with a look back at what has occurred as a result of FFP following the 10th Anniversay of UEFA's implementation of it
10 years of Financial Fair Play: How football has changed over the past decade
Tim Wigmore 11 October 2019 • 9:00am
Ten years ago Financial Fair Play was introduced. Tim Wigmore looks at the four key ways it has changed the sport.
1. Clubs are now profitable - and foreign owners have taken advantage
Owning a football club, Alan Sugar lamented when he was Tottenham Hotspur chairman, is “like drinking prune juice while eating figs.” Whenever more money came in, Sugar complained, it would simply be frittered away on transfer fees and salaries, leaving owners out of pocket.
In the first 17 years of the Premier League, the total annual value of the league’s broadcasting rights soared from £50 million to £800 million. Yet, remarkably, the 20 clubs actually made smaller operating profits in 2008-09 than in 1996-97. The more money they received, the more cash they had to spend to retain their positions.
When a Uefa review showed more than half of all European clubs were losing money - with 20 per cent in financial peril - the governing body decided to take a stand. In the summer of 2009 they introduced Financial Fair Play, a policy that would punish clubs if they failed to post a profit.
The impact has been profound: from a collective profit of £79 million in 2008-09, the last year before FFP, the 20 Premier League sides shared a profit of £867m in 2017-18, according to Deloitte.
The surge in TV rights the Premier League has enjoyed is a continuation of what had come before. But, by tying a club’s spending to their income, FFP has reduced the proportion of revenue clubs spent on wages, which has decreased as a result - from 71 per cent in 2012/13 to 59 per cent. Club owners know rivals cannot spend beyond their means to try and overtake them on the pitch, which in turn means they get to enjoy more of the extra cash from the rise in broadcasting rights.
“Without the regulations, I'm sure we'd still be seeing overspending consistently,” says Rob Wilson, a football finance expert from Sheffield Hallam University.
Nineteen of the 20 clubs made an operating profit in 2017-18, compared with just 11 in 2011-12. As profits have soared, so fears about debt levels have plummeted: net debt levels of clubs, as a proportion of total Premier League revenues, have fallen from 167 per cent to 61 per cent since 2009, Deloitte have found.
This all explains why Premier League and Championship clubs have never been so attractive to owners who want to use teams to make cash, as has long been the norm in US sports. Indeed, three of the big six now have US owners, who run the club alongside US sports teams, and are mimicking the same methods to great effect: Liverpool, who are owned by Fenway Sports Group, generated £125m profit pre-tax in the 2017-18 financial year. Many foreign owners are known to be supportive of FFP: it makes it easier to make a profit from owning a team, with even Roman Abramovich reining in Chelsea’s spending.
Similar dynamics are at work throughout Europe. The clubs in the top divisions of the 54 countries in Uefa made combined losses of €1.7bn in 2011, according to Uefa . In 2017, these same European clubs made a net profit of €615m. Stabilising the finances of European football can be considered the great achievement of FFP.
2. Competitive balance has been obliterated
For the biggest clubs, the genius of Financial Fair Play lies in the name: who, after all, could oppose such a benign-sounding concept?
But ‘fair play’ has meant a playing field skewed ever more in favour of the richest clubs. By tying a club’s spending to their revenue, FFP has been a tool of entrenching the elite. With insurgents barred from receiving an influx of cash enabling them to outspend, the biggest teams can reliably outperform the competition.
That is because money is the biggest single determinant of who wins in football, as the book Soccernomics explains: over a 10-year period, salaries explain about 90 per cent of the variation in league position.
Since FFP was created, only six times in a decade have insurgents finished in the top six of the Premier League, and none at all since 2016. Most revealing is that there been no teams moving out of the reliable big six, as Leeds United, and then Newcastle did in the decade from 1999-2009, with Everton and Aston Villa both enjoying four years in the top six in that decade.
Now, outsiders can occasionally creep into the top six for a season, if an establishment side underperforms - and given how Manchester United have started the season, that scenario appears plausible this year. But it is only a ephemeral
phenomenon. Of the pretenders, only Everton, in 2013 and 2014, have managed consecutive seasons in the top six since FFP was introduced.
This is a microcosm of what is happening throughout Europe. FFP has “reinforced the status quo - it's essentially impossible for anyone outside the main group in England, Germany, Italy, Spain and France to break into the Champions League,” says Wilson.
Since FFP was introduced Juventus have won eight straight Serie A titles, Bayern Munch seven consecutive Bundesligas, and PSG have won Ligue 1 six seasons out of seven. Only one team - Atletico Madrid in 2014 - had broken the Barcelona-Real Madrid duopoly in Spain since FFP was created.
3. The rich have seemed above the law - until now?
“We don't pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes,” the New York real estate heiress and hotelier Leona Helmsley is once reputed to have said. And, with FFP, it has sometimes seemed that, while the rules often help the rich, they do not always have to abide by them.
Both Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain have previously been sanctioned by Uefa for breaching FFP rules but neither have ever been banned from European competitions.
In the case of City, who have an ongoing FFP case with Uefa and who deny any financial wrongdoing, this could soon change and many view the case as a litmus test for the credibility of FFP.
The difficulties with imposing FFP sanctions over the last decade reflect that “European law has failed to recognise the specificity of sport and football in particular,” says Darren Bailey, a consultant to Charles Russell Speechlys’ sports group.
“This has severely limited the scope of the regulators to introduce a more a robust financial control framework. The trend has often been towards defensive regulation and enforcement due to the uncertain legal framework that still exists.”
Across Europe, Bailey believes, “Enforcement challenges also remain due to complexity and differences of interpretation from territory to territory.”
Whether these can be resolved - starting with the City case - will go a long way towards determining whether FFP is perceived as genuinely credible.
4. It has made a European Super League more likely
The age of FFP has contributed to the Champions League becoming far more predictable. The growing financial chasm between the richest clubs and the rest - which can no longer be bridged by sugar daddies - has eroded jeopardy in the group stages, and made the identities of the teams in the last eight more predictable, notwithstanding Ajax’s adventure last season.
Even some of the continent’s traditional superpowers can no longer keep up. AC Milan have just been banned from European football for a year after contravening FFP rules.
In the Champions League, the decade of FFP has been dominated by Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich - along with Manchester United, three of the four richest clubs in the world. But, after providing all four finalists across the Champions and Europa Leagues last season and despite the early-campaign struggles of Chelsea and Tottenham, it seems the Premier League may finally be allying results to financial muscle: the big six make up six of the world’s 10 wealthiest clubs.
Advocates of a European Super League suggest that it is needed as a response to domestic leagues becoming too predictable, and the gap between those at the top and their would-be challengers morphing into a chasm.
By entrenching the elite and eroding competitive balance, FFP has given the richest clubs greater power. The upshot is that either a breakaway league or, more probably, modifications to the Champions League to give the biggest teams more fixtures and cash, is becoming more likely.
10 years of Financial Fair Play: How football has changed over the past decade
Tim Wigmore 11 October 2019 • 9:00am
Ten years ago Financial Fair Play was introduced. Tim Wigmore looks at the four key ways it has changed the sport.
1. Clubs are now profitable - and foreign owners have taken advantage
Owning a football club, Alan Sugar lamented when he was Tottenham Hotspur chairman, is “like drinking prune juice while eating figs.” Whenever more money came in, Sugar complained, it would simply be frittered away on transfer fees and salaries, leaving owners out of pocket.
In the first 17 years of the Premier League, the total annual value of the league’s broadcasting rights soared from £50 million to £800 million. Yet, remarkably, the 20 clubs actually made smaller operating profits in 2008-09 than in 1996-97. The more money they received, the more cash they had to spend to retain their positions.
When a Uefa review showed more than half of all European clubs were losing money - with 20 per cent in financial peril - the governing body decided to take a stand. In the summer of 2009 they introduced Financial Fair Play, a policy that would punish clubs if they failed to post a profit.
The impact has been profound: from a collective profit of £79 million in 2008-09, the last year before FFP, the 20 Premier League sides shared a profit of £867m in 2017-18, according to Deloitte.
The surge in TV rights the Premier League has enjoyed is a continuation of what had come before. But, by tying a club’s spending to their income, FFP has reduced the proportion of revenue clubs spent on wages, which has decreased as a result - from 71 per cent in 2012/13 to 59 per cent. Club owners know rivals cannot spend beyond their means to try and overtake them on the pitch, which in turn means they get to enjoy more of the extra cash from the rise in broadcasting rights.
“Without the regulations, I'm sure we'd still be seeing overspending consistently,” says Rob Wilson, a football finance expert from Sheffield Hallam University.
Nineteen of the 20 clubs made an operating profit in 2017-18, compared with just 11 in 2011-12. As profits have soared, so fears about debt levels have plummeted: net debt levels of clubs, as a proportion of total Premier League revenues, have fallen from 167 per cent to 61 per cent since 2009, Deloitte have found.
This all explains why Premier League and Championship clubs have never been so attractive to owners who want to use teams to make cash, as has long been the norm in US sports. Indeed, three of the big six now have US owners, who run the club alongside US sports teams, and are mimicking the same methods to great effect: Liverpool, who are owned by Fenway Sports Group, generated £125m profit pre-tax in the 2017-18 financial year. Many foreign owners are known to be supportive of FFP: it makes it easier to make a profit from owning a team, with even Roman Abramovich reining in Chelsea’s spending.
Similar dynamics are at work throughout Europe. The clubs in the top divisions of the 54 countries in Uefa made combined losses of €1.7bn in 2011, according to Uefa . In 2017, these same European clubs made a net profit of €615m. Stabilising the finances of European football can be considered the great achievement of FFP.
2. Competitive balance has been obliterated
For the biggest clubs, the genius of Financial Fair Play lies in the name: who, after all, could oppose such a benign-sounding concept?
But ‘fair play’ has meant a playing field skewed ever more in favour of the richest clubs. By tying a club’s spending to their revenue, FFP has been a tool of entrenching the elite. With insurgents barred from receiving an influx of cash enabling them to outspend, the biggest teams can reliably outperform the competition.
That is because money is the biggest single determinant of who wins in football, as the book Soccernomics explains: over a 10-year period, salaries explain about 90 per cent of the variation in league position.
Since FFP was created, only six times in a decade have insurgents finished in the top six of the Premier League, and none at all since 2016. Most revealing is that there been no teams moving out of the reliable big six, as Leeds United, and then Newcastle did in the decade from 1999-2009, with Everton and Aston Villa both enjoying four years in the top six in that decade.
Now, outsiders can occasionally creep into the top six for a season, if an establishment side underperforms - and given how Manchester United have started the season, that scenario appears plausible this year. But it is only a ephemeral
phenomenon. Of the pretenders, only Everton, in 2013 and 2014, have managed consecutive seasons in the top six since FFP was introduced.
This is a microcosm of what is happening throughout Europe. FFP has “reinforced the status quo - it's essentially impossible for anyone outside the main group in England, Germany, Italy, Spain and France to break into the Champions League,” says Wilson.
Since FFP was introduced Juventus have won eight straight Serie A titles, Bayern Munch seven consecutive Bundesligas, and PSG have won Ligue 1 six seasons out of seven. Only one team - Atletico Madrid in 2014 - had broken the Barcelona-Real Madrid duopoly in Spain since FFP was created.
3. The rich have seemed above the law - until now?
“We don't pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes,” the New York real estate heiress and hotelier Leona Helmsley is once reputed to have said. And, with FFP, it has sometimes seemed that, while the rules often help the rich, they do not always have to abide by them.
Both Manchester City and Paris Saint-Germain have previously been sanctioned by Uefa for breaching FFP rules but neither have ever been banned from European competitions.
In the case of City, who have an ongoing FFP case with Uefa and who deny any financial wrongdoing, this could soon change and many view the case as a litmus test for the credibility of FFP.
The difficulties with imposing FFP sanctions over the last decade reflect that “European law has failed to recognise the specificity of sport and football in particular,” says Darren Bailey, a consultant to Charles Russell Speechlys’ sports group.
“This has severely limited the scope of the regulators to introduce a more a robust financial control framework. The trend has often been towards defensive regulation and enforcement due to the uncertain legal framework that still exists.”
Across Europe, Bailey believes, “Enforcement challenges also remain due to complexity and differences of interpretation from territory to territory.”
Whether these can be resolved - starting with the City case - will go a long way towards determining whether FFP is perceived as genuinely credible.
4. It has made a European Super League more likely
The age of FFP has contributed to the Champions League becoming far more predictable. The growing financial chasm between the richest clubs and the rest - which can no longer be bridged by sugar daddies - has eroded jeopardy in the group stages, and made the identities of the teams in the last eight more predictable, notwithstanding Ajax’s adventure last season.
Even some of the continent’s traditional superpowers can no longer keep up. AC Milan have just been banned from European football for a year after contravening FFP rules.
In the Champions League, the decade of FFP has been dominated by Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich - along with Manchester United, three of the four richest clubs in the world. But, after providing all four finalists across the Champions and Europa Leagues last season and despite the early-campaign struggles of Chelsea and Tottenham, it seems the Premier League may finally be allying results to financial muscle: the big six make up six of the world’s 10 wealthiest clubs.
Advocates of a European Super League suggest that it is needed as a response to domestic leagues becoming too predictable, and the gap between those at the top and their would-be challengers morphing into a chasm.
By entrenching the elite and eroding competitive balance, FFP has given the richest clubs greater power. The upshot is that either a breakaway league or, more probably, modifications to the Champions League to give the biggest teams more fixtures and cash, is becoming more likely.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@KieranMaguire has a peep at Barcelona's 2018/19 Accounts
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9290558464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The full official report is here
https://fcbarcelona-static-files.s3.ama ... 19_ENG.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9290558464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The full official report is here
https://fcbarcelona-static-files.s3.ama ... 19_ENG.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Swizzlestick
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Maybe if they’d spent some of that healthy bank balance on a couple of players they may have stayed up.Royboyclaret wrote:Well those accounts are to Jun'19 so if there are any financial problems they must be very recent. Absolutely nothing wrong with those figures, although clearly a different situation on the pitch. They even boast a healthy bank balance, something rarely seen in our lower leagues.
Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Can I just say, this thread is absolutely excellent...some fantastic input...really enjoy catching up on it.
This user liked this post: frankinwales
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Seems like everybody has had their say on Manchester United's results, along with the state of the club's structure, it's playing squad and even Old Trafford itself - there are even very contradictory reports as to how they are faring at finding a shirt sponsor for the 2021/22 season, Here Vysyble *who we have not heard from in a while giver their distinctive take on the latest financial results
https://vysyble.com/blog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://vysyble.com/blog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
An Intriguing variation on Third Party Investment/ownership that is still legal under FIFA statutes even though they hace tried to stop/ban third party investment in players
https://www.danielgeey.com/post/third-p ... er-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.danielgeey.com/post/third-p ... er-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@SwissRamble does his imperious thing with Barcelona's accounts
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 8066583552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 8066583552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The EFL are moving forward with their "Stadium Sales" circumvention of FFP investigation - From the Telegraph
EFL step up investigation into Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Reading stadium sales
John Percy 16 October 2019 • 10:30pm
Blackstone Chambers as they step up their investigation into the stadium sales of three Championship clubs.
Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Reading are under scrutiny from the EFL over the valuations of their stadiums, with an unscheduled board meeting held in London on Wednesday to discuss the situation.
It has been alleged by a number of Championship clubs, including Middlesbrough, that the three clubs breached profitability and sustainability rules by selling their stadiums and then leasing them back.
An EFL Spokesman said: “Further investigation is still required on a number of issues in respect of the Profitability and Sustainability (P&S) submissions of some Championship Clubs. The EFL, however, does not discuss or disclose any of the details regarding individual P&S cases of its members.”
Derby have defended the £80 million valuation of their Pride Park home and insist they were fully compliant with the rules when they filed their accounts for the 2017/18 season.
In a statement released last month, Derby said: “Derby County Football Club has adhered to the EFL’s Profit and Sustainability Rules with respect to the sale of its stadium.
“The stadium was subject to an independent professional valuation before sale, nearly 18 months ago, and the EFL indicated in writing that the arrangement was in accordance with its rules and regulations.
“The EFL cannot now, long after approving the arrangements, suggest Derby County breached the rules." Wednesday and Reading have always defended their positions.
Yet the EFL are understood to be closely examining the valuations and have enlisted QC's from Blackstone Chambers - the central London firm who advised government on Brexit in the Supreme Court - to assist their independent investigation.
The threat of possible future legal action against the three Championship clubs cannot be discounted at this stage.
Last season Middlesbrough owner Steve Gibson announced his intention to sue Derby, days before the Championship play-off final for what he believes were clear breaches of rules.
Derby's owner Mel Morris hit back in an interview with The Daily Telegraph by accusing Gibson of "hypocrisy" and has always maintained that the club have not broken any regulations.
Boro have since threatened the EFL with legal action and a messy legal battle appears increasingly likely later this year.
EFL step up investigation into Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Reading stadium sales
John Percy 16 October 2019 • 10:30pm
Blackstone Chambers as they step up their investigation into the stadium sales of three Championship clubs.
Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Reading are under scrutiny from the EFL over the valuations of their stadiums, with an unscheduled board meeting held in London on Wednesday to discuss the situation.
It has been alleged by a number of Championship clubs, including Middlesbrough, that the three clubs breached profitability and sustainability rules by selling their stadiums and then leasing them back.
An EFL Spokesman said: “Further investigation is still required on a number of issues in respect of the Profitability and Sustainability (P&S) submissions of some Championship Clubs. The EFL, however, does not discuss or disclose any of the details regarding individual P&S cases of its members.”
Derby have defended the £80 million valuation of their Pride Park home and insist they were fully compliant with the rules when they filed their accounts for the 2017/18 season.
In a statement released last month, Derby said: “Derby County Football Club has adhered to the EFL’s Profit and Sustainability Rules with respect to the sale of its stadium.
“The stadium was subject to an independent professional valuation before sale, nearly 18 months ago, and the EFL indicated in writing that the arrangement was in accordance with its rules and regulations.
“The EFL cannot now, long after approving the arrangements, suggest Derby County breached the rules." Wednesday and Reading have always defended their positions.
Yet the EFL are understood to be closely examining the valuations and have enlisted QC's from Blackstone Chambers - the central London firm who advised government on Brexit in the Supreme Court - to assist their independent investigation.
The threat of possible future legal action against the three Championship clubs cannot be discounted at this stage.
Last season Middlesbrough owner Steve Gibson announced his intention to sue Derby, days before the Championship play-off final for what he believes were clear breaches of rules.
Derby's owner Mel Morris hit back in an interview with The Daily Telegraph by accusing Gibson of "hypocrisy" and has always maintained that the club have not broken any regulations.
Boro have since threatened the EFL with legal action and a messy legal battle appears increasingly likely later this year.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Meanwhile the Premier League are getting twitchy about The European Leagues Association's plans to reduce the maximum number Champions League places to 3 for the major leagues - again from the Telegraph
Premier League will oppose plans to reduce automatic Champions League spots
Tom Morgan, Sports News Correspondent 16 October 2019 • 3:03pm
he Premier League will oppose efforts to reduce automatic spots for the Champions League in a meeting this week with more than 150 clubs across Europe.
Proposals to return to the fourth-placed club having to qualify via the play-offs had been discussed by the president of the European Leagues organisation.
However, England's top tier is understood to have been reassured that the idea was far from set in stone ahead of a meeting on Thursday and Friday.
The Premier League is hosting the meeting and there will also be presentations from the players’ union Fifpro and the Football Supporters’ Federation.
Tougher qualification criteria affecting England's top tier as well as La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga will be proposed, but would need almost unanimous agreement to be in place within two seasons.
Lars-Christer Olsson, head of European Leagues, suggested last week that he had expected the leagues to be "fine" with a blanket reduction.
“I think some of the big leagues would be fine if they are all treated in the same way," said Olsson. "If you are giving four positions to the Premier League and taking one away from the Bundesliga then you have a problem. The big leagues are prepared to participate in this discussion for something new if they are treated the same.”
Under the changes, the fourth-placed side - which was Tottenham Hotspur last season - would most likely revert to the previous criteria of pre-season qualification.
Olsson said the current allocation of 13 Champions League proper matches en route to the final is the ideal amount, and he is vehemently opposed to talks of a new elite European League competition spearheaded by Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli, head of the European Clubs Association.
Premier League will oppose plans to reduce automatic Champions League spots
Tom Morgan, Sports News Correspondent 16 October 2019 • 3:03pm
he Premier League will oppose efforts to reduce automatic spots for the Champions League in a meeting this week with more than 150 clubs across Europe.
Proposals to return to the fourth-placed club having to qualify via the play-offs had been discussed by the president of the European Leagues organisation.
However, England's top tier is understood to have been reassured that the idea was far from set in stone ahead of a meeting on Thursday and Friday.
The Premier League is hosting the meeting and there will also be presentations from the players’ union Fifpro and the Football Supporters’ Federation.
Tougher qualification criteria affecting England's top tier as well as La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga will be proposed, but would need almost unanimous agreement to be in place within two seasons.
Lars-Christer Olsson, head of European Leagues, suggested last week that he had expected the leagues to be "fine" with a blanket reduction.
“I think some of the big leagues would be fine if they are all treated in the same way," said Olsson. "If you are giving four positions to the Premier League and taking one away from the Bundesliga then you have a problem. The big leagues are prepared to participate in this discussion for something new if they are treated the same.”
Under the changes, the fourth-placed side - which was Tottenham Hotspur last season - would most likely revert to the previous criteria of pre-season qualification.
Olsson said the current allocation of 13 Champions League proper matches en route to the final is the ideal amount, and he is vehemently opposed to talks of a new elite European League competition spearheaded by Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli, head of the European Clubs Association.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Radio 5 had a Lower League Football special last night focussing how you should/shouldn't run a club and how the EFL could look in 10 years - Amongst others @KieranMaguire and Mark Palios Tranmere Owner/Chair and former FA Chief Exec
you can play it back from here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009brl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT the show is 2 hours but actually highly informative and detailed in it's focus encompassing a number of clubs beyond the usual/obvious candidates
you can play it back from here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0009brl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT the show is 2 hours but actually highly informative and detailed in it's focus encompassing a number of clubs beyond the usual/obvious candidates
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Crewe have new ownership with no individual person owning more than 12.5% of the club
https://www.crewealex.net/news/2019/oct ... -holdings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It may have been the factor that saw Dario finally leave the club (however poor that leaving statement was)
https://www.crewealex.net/news/2019/oct ... -holdings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It may have been the factor that saw Dario finally leave the club (however poor that leaving statement was)
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
I have posted about clubs need to properly insure their assets previously (and the costs of injuries - see the first post on this page) - this is an example of what losses can be had - Hull get a £1m payout for the £13m signing of Ryan Mason who had to retire following his awful injury
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/f ... ce-3430639" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/f ... ce-3430639" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
I have previously suggested that the Amazon deal would not see concurrent games, rather consecutive games over more than one day as they make the most out of their two rounds of game in December (I expect BT to do the same at Easter) - it appears this is what will happen
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... tball.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... tball.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The volume of illegal streaming in this county may surprise (equally some will this it is low) 9 % admit they streamed at least 1 game last season
https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articl ... says-study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Certainly clubs will look at it as lost revenue
https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articl ... says-study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Certainly clubs will look at it as lost revenue
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
posted about the troubles at Northampton a number of times - the case over the missing is likely to take a lot more time as it has become apparent Investigators are having to sift through 4 million items of evidence
https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articl ... says-study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articl ... says-study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@AndyhHolt with his best post for a while - on the difficulties of meeting the ever increasing stadium requirements of the different leagues (TV money led), not being able to borrow from reputable financial institutions so spreading the cost over the likely income generation period, thus the inevitability of grounds being separated from clubs as owners who lend look to secure a ROI when they sell, and clubs failing as they inevitably cannot meet their fixed costs
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 6874215424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is all too familiar and depressing
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 6874215424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is all too familiar and depressing
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The 2nd Price of Football Podcast - Mike Ashley special
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/p ... 1482886394" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/p ... 1482886394" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
TIFO Football looks inside The Football Transfer Market (based on yet another article in the Athletic - do they own TIFO Football now)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5CKQcQavbk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5CKQcQavbk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
La Liga tries again - it wants to play a league game in Miami in December - I suspect FIFA will say no even if the Spanish Fa and MLS can be persuaded
https://apnews.com/68b881aa8ae54fa5bb716cc5d786b87f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://apnews.com/68b881aa8ae54fa5bb716cc5d786b87f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Never cease to be amazed by Barcelona's accounts and, as I've stated previously on here, they exist on a different financial level to any other European club including Manchester United. The latest Wage bill of £501million is quite remarkable even allowing for their increased Income levels.Chester Perry wrote:@SwissRamble does his imperious thing with Barcelona's accounts
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 8066583552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another figure that stands out is the fact they still owe Liverpool £95million in stage payments from the original fee of £142million they agreed for Philippe Coutinho at the beginning of last year. That's not quite the end of the story from Liverpool's perspective in that Barcelona claim that Liverpool have already "collected" the outstanding amount. It appears they have entered into a discount factoring arrangement whereby Liverpool have effectively sold the IOU for Coutinho to a third party.
Kieran Maguire suggests that figure to be as high as £90million, so Liverpool losing out on a mere £5million, but my information is that Liverpool received somewhat less than £90million. Nonetheless the matter is now financially closed from Liverpool's side and the third party will continue to receive the stage payments from Barcelona. My guess would be that taking a few million hit on the initial fee of £142million is more than acceptable to Liverpool in that the fee was far too high in the first place even considering the levels of the transfer market currently.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Factoring was used by Liverpool on the Coutinho deal, Maguire has suggested it cost Liverpool £4-5m
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
One of those mesmorising animated graph videos on Premier League wages from the beginning until the end of 2017/18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... RIQO-Y-RSU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... RIQO-Y-RSU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
With Sunday's game looming David Conn looks at the different tacks taken by United and Liverpool's American owners and then lays the boot in on the Glazer family - it is a pretty comprehensive summary of the situation
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
You may not be aware that the European Leagues association gathered in London yesterday with 201 clubs to discuss the future of European club competition (the ECA stayed away in the main) - there are now a couple of themes from the day that are emerging
1. Clubs are unconvinced about the likely success of the Europa Conference (or Europa League 2)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gue-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2. Leagues and a number of clubs do not want extra European games at the expense of domestic competition
https://apnews.com/578c293cd706437897e3cd94d1ffdc83" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The official Media statement
https://europeanleagues.com/european-le ... petitions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1. Clubs are unconvinced about the likely success of the Europa Conference (or Europa League 2)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gue-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2. Leagues and a number of clubs do not want extra European games at the expense of domestic competition
https://apnews.com/578c293cd706437897e3cd94d1ffdc83" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The official Media statement
https://europeanleagues.com/european-le ... petitions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
KPMG's Football Benchmark does some Social Media Analytics
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... f_football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
players are monetising their popularity by being "influencers" - some like CR7 make more money as an influencer than they do from playing for their club - which seems bonkers but kind of makes sense. It may also explain why he left Real Madrid - there his image rights were owned by the club who took their "share" of earnings.
https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 3614737408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... f_football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
players are monetising their popularity by being "influencers" - some like CR7 make more money as an influencer than they do from playing for their club - which seems bonkers but kind of makes sense. It may also explain why he left Real Madrid - there his image rights were owned by the club who took their "share" of earnings.
https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 3614737408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
We have heard a lot of clubs not paying their players in English leagues in the last year, they just seem to get on with the job and Bury even won promotion despite not being paid for months. We saw what happened in Holland when one owner was forcefully ejected from the ground by fans for the same issue, the video going viral. Vera Cruz in the Mexican League have taken a different approach
https://twitter.com/MLS_Buzz/status/1185381151747313664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/MLS_Buzz/status/1185381151747313664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
FIFA push on with it's revised Club World Cup format
- Looks like being in China
- Fifa wanted 12 European clubs (Infantino thinking of the rights sales no doubt), Uefa say no more than 8
from the New York Times
FIFA Set to Reward China With World Cup for Clubs
Overcoming European opposition, world soccer’s governing body plans to send the first edition of its expanded world club championship to China in 2021.
By Tariq Panja - Oct. 20, 2019 - Updated 12:33 p.m. ET
FIFA plans to grant China the rights to host the inaugural version of its expanded Club World Cup, a 24-team tournament scheduled for 2021 that will feature some of the world’s biggest club teams and provide a significant cash infusion for world soccer’s governing body.
The decision to award the hosting rights to China will be announced on Friday in Shanghai after it is confirmed in a vote of FIFA’s governing council at its quarterly meeting, according to several soccer officials with knowledge of the council’s intentions. European soccer officials, who had strongly opposed an expanded tournament for clubs when the plans were raised, now appear set to go along, and to provide a third of the teams in the expanded tournament.
The new quadrennial event, announced in March, will replace the unpopular Confederations Cup, an eight-team national tournament that in recent versions had acted as a tuneup for World Cup hosts. It also will mean the demise of the Club World Cup as an annual event; under its current format, seven teams will play in Qatar, the 2022 World Cup host, both this year and next year.
In choosing China as the first host of the expanded Club World Cup, FIFA will be rewarding a country that, since a 2015 government edict made soccer a national priority, has spent billions of dollars on coaching programs, sponsorship agreements and investments in a big spending domestic league that has lured top players with some of the biggest salaries in world soccer. Hosting the new club championship also could be a boost for a Chinese bid to host the 2030 World Cup, but it also will force FIFA to navigate the same tricky political ground that recently caused serious damage to the N.B.A.’s commercial relationship with China.
FIFA declined to comment on Friday’s vote, with a spokesman saying only that the agenda for the meeting in Shanghai would be released on Monday
.
As it does for the World Cup, Europe will provide more competitors for the event than FIFA’s other five regional confederations. Under FIFA’s plan, Europe would have eight places in the 24-team field. South America would have the next largest allotment, with six, and the remainder would qualify from the other regional confederations, including three from CONCACAF, the representative body for North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
The new event is likely to produce a significant increase in revenue for FIFA, which has traditionally relied on the men’s World Cup for almost all of its income. FIFA’s president, Gianni Infantino, was forced to back out of a deal to include the tournament in a wide-ranging (and initially secret) deal worth as much as $25 billion with a consortium led by the Japanese conglomerate SoftBank. Those secret talks led to a bitter and public breakdown in relations between Infantino and Aleksander Ceferin, president of UEFA, European soccer’s governing body. Infantino and Ceferin did not speak for a year after Infantino, at a meeting in March 2018, asked FIFA’s board to let him conclude a deal within 60 days with a group he refused to identify.
Infantino had wanted to include 12 European teams in the inaugural event but eventually backed down amid continued opposition from UEFA, which has grudgingly dropped its objections to the concept of the expanded tournament.
Deciding the identity of the participants will be the next step. And with the confederations wanting to take charge of that process, it will likely prove just as controversial as the decision to expand the event itself. Europe’s eight places are expected to go to the winners of its two top club competitions — the Champions League and the Europa League — over each four-year period. Under that proposal, the participating teams from Europe would include the likes of Liverpool, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Atlético Madrid.
Other confederations are expected to send the winners of their own continental club championships, though the details of how the slots would be awarded could be contentious.
Infantino hopes to use the expanded Club World Cup as a springboard to raise the profile of teams outside Europe, notably in Asia and the United States, which will host the 2026 World Cup and is the likely site of the second expanded club championship in 2025.
- Looks like being in China
- Fifa wanted 12 European clubs (Infantino thinking of the rights sales no doubt), Uefa say no more than 8
from the New York Times
FIFA Set to Reward China With World Cup for Clubs
Overcoming European opposition, world soccer’s governing body plans to send the first edition of its expanded world club championship to China in 2021.
By Tariq Panja - Oct. 20, 2019 - Updated 12:33 p.m. ET
FIFA plans to grant China the rights to host the inaugural version of its expanded Club World Cup, a 24-team tournament scheduled for 2021 that will feature some of the world’s biggest club teams and provide a significant cash infusion for world soccer’s governing body.
The decision to award the hosting rights to China will be announced on Friday in Shanghai after it is confirmed in a vote of FIFA’s governing council at its quarterly meeting, according to several soccer officials with knowledge of the council’s intentions. European soccer officials, who had strongly opposed an expanded tournament for clubs when the plans were raised, now appear set to go along, and to provide a third of the teams in the expanded tournament.
The new quadrennial event, announced in March, will replace the unpopular Confederations Cup, an eight-team national tournament that in recent versions had acted as a tuneup for World Cup hosts. It also will mean the demise of the Club World Cup as an annual event; under its current format, seven teams will play in Qatar, the 2022 World Cup host, both this year and next year.
In choosing China as the first host of the expanded Club World Cup, FIFA will be rewarding a country that, since a 2015 government edict made soccer a national priority, has spent billions of dollars on coaching programs, sponsorship agreements and investments in a big spending domestic league that has lured top players with some of the biggest salaries in world soccer. Hosting the new club championship also could be a boost for a Chinese bid to host the 2030 World Cup, but it also will force FIFA to navigate the same tricky political ground that recently caused serious damage to the N.B.A.’s commercial relationship with China.
FIFA declined to comment on Friday’s vote, with a spokesman saying only that the agenda for the meeting in Shanghai would be released on Monday
.
As it does for the World Cup, Europe will provide more competitors for the event than FIFA’s other five regional confederations. Under FIFA’s plan, Europe would have eight places in the 24-team field. South America would have the next largest allotment, with six, and the remainder would qualify from the other regional confederations, including three from CONCACAF, the representative body for North America, Central America and the Caribbean.
The new event is likely to produce a significant increase in revenue for FIFA, which has traditionally relied on the men’s World Cup for almost all of its income. FIFA’s president, Gianni Infantino, was forced to back out of a deal to include the tournament in a wide-ranging (and initially secret) deal worth as much as $25 billion with a consortium led by the Japanese conglomerate SoftBank. Those secret talks led to a bitter and public breakdown in relations between Infantino and Aleksander Ceferin, president of UEFA, European soccer’s governing body. Infantino and Ceferin did not speak for a year after Infantino, at a meeting in March 2018, asked FIFA’s board to let him conclude a deal within 60 days with a group he refused to identify.
Infantino had wanted to include 12 European teams in the inaugural event but eventually backed down amid continued opposition from UEFA, which has grudgingly dropped its objections to the concept of the expanded tournament.
Deciding the identity of the participants will be the next step. And with the confederations wanting to take charge of that process, it will likely prove just as controversial as the decision to expand the event itself. Europe’s eight places are expected to go to the winners of its two top club competitions — the Champions League and the Europa League — over each four-year period. Under that proposal, the participating teams from Europe would include the likes of Liverpool, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Atlético Madrid.
Other confederations are expected to send the winners of their own continental club championships, though the details of how the slots would be awarded could be contentious.
Infantino hopes to use the expanded Club World Cup as a springboard to raise the profile of teams outside Europe, notably in Asia and the United States, which will host the 2026 World Cup and is the likely site of the second expanded club championship in 2025.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The lawyers are going to be all over this (and heading likely to be banned from kids football I reckon) - Dementia much more likely for ex footballers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50124102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the Telegraph's version talks of a greater likelihood than that of the BBC
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -landmark/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can register to read the full report for free here https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... lE.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50124102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the Telegraph's version talks of a greater likelihood than that of the BBC
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -landmark/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can register to read the full report for free here https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N ... lE.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The DCMS committee looking at the mess of Football Administration has been running since just after 2:30pm it is still on if you want to watch -
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 3ef941bac9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Debbie Jevans is lacking the conviction of the others being questioned
That link should allow playback - please note that the meeting starts at 2:36:41 pm - it runs for 3 hours - but is well worth a watch - each segment lasts roughly 90 mins especially just how poor Debbie Jevans is in the 2nd part
the invited subjects for questions https://twitter.com/CommonsCMS/status/1 ... 6739849216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 3ef941bac9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Debbie Jevans is lacking the conviction of the others being questioned
That link should allow playback - please note that the meeting starts at 2:36:41 pm - it runs for 3 hours - but is well worth a watch - each segment lasts roughly 90 mins especially just how poor Debbie Jevans is in the 2nd part
the invited subjects for questions https://twitter.com/CommonsCMS/status/1 ... 6739849216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Barcelona have negotiated a tie up which will make pitch side advertising different to different viewing locations - in an effeort to raise greater advertising revenue naturally - it is quite clever actually,
http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/supponor-s ... barcelona/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/supponor-s ... barcelona/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@AndyhHolt withhis take on yesterday's DCMS inquiry
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 3280976896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 3280976896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@SwissRamble does his thing with Ajax's financial results for 2018/19 season - got to say I am enjoying his sojourn into Europe and hoping he will examine the catastrophic AC Milan accounts - they are the only grand old club in Europe who make Man United's fall from grace look like a minor inconvenience
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 4286690304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 4286690304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
This will wind up a few on here - Watford plan to expand Vicarage Rd by 11000 seats for a reported £40m - that would be really cheap
http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/watf ... B8.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/watf ... B8.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
TwoHundredPercent with their view on yesterday's DCMS proceedings
http://twohundredpercent.net/fa-efls-da ... arliament/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://twohundredpercent.net/fa-efls-da ... arliament/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
A piece from LawinSport.com on
How do football lawyers differ to football agents? An interview with Daniel Geey
Published 17 October 2019 By: Manan Agrawal
Recently, football lawyer Daniel Geey and football agent Erkut Sögüt attended Mumbai to help teach The Football Business Certificate, educating current and future leaders about best practices of the global football industry. While there, Daniel and Erkut kindly agreed to answer some questions for me on topical issues in football. In this interview, I asked Daniel for his opinions on the following questions:
- What is the role of a football lawyer?
- What exactly is football law?
- Should football adopt an NBA style transfer system?
- What are some of the most memorable deals that you have been part of?
- Is there a need for stricter regulation of who can own a football club?
- How can football be promoted India?
What is the role of a football lawyer? How are football lawyers and agents different?
As a football lawyer, my role is complimentary to that of an agent. Most of my work is in conjunction with the agent, for example, with transfers, contract renegotiations, brand endorsements and image right deals. It can also involve any kind of dispute that the player or an agent might have with the club, other agents, brands and other contractual issues or even reputation management issues. The role of a football lawyer is very different to that of an agent because an agent deals more with the commercial aspects. Ideally, my role is to offer complimentary service to the service offered by the agent.
What exactly is football law? Is it any different to sports law? What role does law have to play in football?
I am not sure that there is something called football law or even sports law to tell the truth. I think it’s just a collection of lots of different areas of law, whether it is property, intellectual property, contract, dispute resolution. If I need to be a football lawyer, ideally I need to be a relative expert in different spheres of law. I started out as a regulations lawyer, and then ultimately converted that into being a disputes lawyer and then into a commercial and intellectual property lawyer. Ultimately, the law touches football in all its aspects: if its broadcasting rights, then it’s a tender process; if it is free movement rights, then its EU law or UK law; if its contractual issues, then it’s the law of England and Wales and on and on. Football touches lots of different industries and it’s just a matter of figuring out what law applies.
With the revenue gap between the rich clubs and the smaller clubs constantly growing, do you think that football would benefit from certain radical changes in the system like a salary cap or NBA style draft replacing the transfer window?
The NBA style draft is the easiest one to answer, since the draft relies upon the college system and the university system in the UK is not set up for that approach at the moment. So, I don’t think that an NBA style draft is going to come into place any time soon, but you never know, maybe big systemic changes can be made. Coming to the salary cap, there already is an indirect salary cap in place in essence. I think that the UEFA and Premier League, indirectly, prohibit major spending on wages. The clubs are not allowed to spend under UEFA’s Financial Fair Play regulations and under the cost control and sustainability regulations which are, in a way, essentially a soft cap on salaries. There was a slightly stronger cap with the Premier League regulations limiting the increase in wages to£7 million year-on-year which has now been removed. Ultimately, there are provisions which essentially perform the function of a salary cap, however, there are no regulations which can be considered to be a hard cap on salaries.
What are some of the most memorable deals that you have been part of? They could be memorable for the right or wrong reasons.
Most of the deals that I am involved in are not really nice experiences since the situation around the deals is extremely pressurized and there are lots of people who have different ideas and are pulling you in different directions. Usually, I have to be the person who says no to things or ask for a change in things and most of the times, some parties (including your own client) will not see the value in you making particular arguments and they just want the deal to be done. But my job, most of the time is to point out the risk and possible outcomes of taking the risk. With one deal that we had, around 2 summers ago, I was the one who was holding up the announcement of the deal because the selling club had not provided an indemnity which stopped my client, the agent, from being sued in the future. I held up the signing of the player until we had the indemnity in writing from the selling club. We waited for two and a half hours for that indemnity to come through whilst the buying club was going crazy with us to get the deal finalized, but I did not let the player or the agent sign the deal until we received it.
In light of the current situation surrounding Bury FC, do you feel there is a need for stricter regulation of who can own a football club? Or are you of the opinion that a club belongs to the fans and thus should be owned by the fans?
The answer to the second part is that I think it’s difficult now for fans to own a club for different reasons. For example, the top clubs are just too expensive now. Could things change if the new government decides to nationalise clubs by law? Maybe they could. For Bury FC specifically, I think it’s fair to say that the regulations for the lower fringes of the EFL are not as stringent as for the upper echelons of the UEFA Champions League or Premier League.
Do you think that the regulations on the upper leagues are stringent enough then?
It depends actually on what you are looking to safeguard. If you are looking to ensure that clubs are living within their means so that there is not a lot of financial instability, then the regulations at the top level have done well because most clubs are close to being profitable or breaking even at the very least. If it is because you want to stop people of a certain character because they have been involved in other difficult scenarios like insolvencies, criminal records etc., then there are provisions already in place but there might be scope to tighten them. The problem at present, throughout all the leagues, is what is called the owners and directors test which is a declaration that is to be signed with statements like ‘You have not been declared bankrupt or insolvent’ or ‘You do not have an interest in another club’ or ‘You do not have any convictions’. But all of that is an objective test. It is not based usually on somebody’s opinion. For example, to be a solicitor, I have to pass a suitability test which is a test to see if people think my actions or activities are becoming of a solicitor. In case of football, there is no subjective test and only an objective test. The question that arises is that whether certain elements become more subjective and whether then as a result you make subjective value judgements.
Football is gaining traction in India and is currently India’s second most popular sport especially with the advent of the Indian Super League.
However, the ISL is yet to attain the kind of success that the IPL, for example, has achieved. How do you feel that the game can be promoted in a country like India?
That is the billion rupee question. I am trying to compare this to the situation before the Premier League went behind the paywall. I think the Premier League has a problem in the future because not enough people have been watching it now for a number of generations. I think, for the ISL to be as successful as it can be, it needs to provide tickets at cost pricing or just above cost pricing, which I think it is already doing. I also think that it needs to provide broadcasting for free on the internet to everyone so that, over a long period of time, it will become a set fixture in the Indian consciousness for the television and internet watching public where you align an easy ability to watch an investment for over 5-10 years. This would eventually lead to the next generations, and it might not happen even for the next 10-15 years, to start watching games. Most of Premier League’s monies come from broadcasting rights. But the only way to sell broadcasting rights is by creating demand. Football in England has evolved for 150 years. Technology is India’s real advantage. Look at how easy it is to make content accessible. To me it is very simple. How you convince people that they want to be entertained is with an interesting data product that is accessible to everyone. That is what is happening in the UK at the moment with women’s football. They have decided to put the WSL live on OTT free for everyone.
Copyright notice
This work was written for and first published on LawInSport.com (unless otherwise stated) and the copyright is owned by LawInSport Ltd. Permission is granted to make digital or hard copies of this work (or part, or abstracts, of it) for personal use provided copies are not made or distributed for profit or commercial advantage, and provided that all copies bear this notice and full citation on the first page (which should include the URL, company name (LawInSport), article title, author name, date of the publication and date of use) of any copies made. Copyright for components of this work owned by parties other than LawInSport must be honoured.
How do football lawyers differ to football agents? An interview with Daniel Geey
Published 17 October 2019 By: Manan Agrawal
Recently, football lawyer Daniel Geey and football agent Erkut Sögüt attended Mumbai to help teach The Football Business Certificate, educating current and future leaders about best practices of the global football industry. While there, Daniel and Erkut kindly agreed to answer some questions for me on topical issues in football. In this interview, I asked Daniel for his opinions on the following questions:
- What is the role of a football lawyer?
- What exactly is football law?
- Should football adopt an NBA style transfer system?
- What are some of the most memorable deals that you have been part of?
- Is there a need for stricter regulation of who can own a football club?
- How can football be promoted India?
What is the role of a football lawyer? How are football lawyers and agents different?
As a football lawyer, my role is complimentary to that of an agent. Most of my work is in conjunction with the agent, for example, with transfers, contract renegotiations, brand endorsements and image right deals. It can also involve any kind of dispute that the player or an agent might have with the club, other agents, brands and other contractual issues or even reputation management issues. The role of a football lawyer is very different to that of an agent because an agent deals more with the commercial aspects. Ideally, my role is to offer complimentary service to the service offered by the agent.
What exactly is football law? Is it any different to sports law? What role does law have to play in football?
I am not sure that there is something called football law or even sports law to tell the truth. I think it’s just a collection of lots of different areas of law, whether it is property, intellectual property, contract, dispute resolution. If I need to be a football lawyer, ideally I need to be a relative expert in different spheres of law. I started out as a regulations lawyer, and then ultimately converted that into being a disputes lawyer and then into a commercial and intellectual property lawyer. Ultimately, the law touches football in all its aspects: if its broadcasting rights, then it’s a tender process; if it is free movement rights, then its EU law or UK law; if its contractual issues, then it’s the law of England and Wales and on and on. Football touches lots of different industries and it’s just a matter of figuring out what law applies.
With the revenue gap between the rich clubs and the smaller clubs constantly growing, do you think that football would benefit from certain radical changes in the system like a salary cap or NBA style draft replacing the transfer window?
The NBA style draft is the easiest one to answer, since the draft relies upon the college system and the university system in the UK is not set up for that approach at the moment. So, I don’t think that an NBA style draft is going to come into place any time soon, but you never know, maybe big systemic changes can be made. Coming to the salary cap, there already is an indirect salary cap in place in essence. I think that the UEFA and Premier League, indirectly, prohibit major spending on wages. The clubs are not allowed to spend under UEFA’s Financial Fair Play regulations and under the cost control and sustainability regulations which are, in a way, essentially a soft cap on salaries. There was a slightly stronger cap with the Premier League regulations limiting the increase in wages to£7 million year-on-year which has now been removed. Ultimately, there are provisions which essentially perform the function of a salary cap, however, there are no regulations which can be considered to be a hard cap on salaries.
What are some of the most memorable deals that you have been part of? They could be memorable for the right or wrong reasons.
Most of the deals that I am involved in are not really nice experiences since the situation around the deals is extremely pressurized and there are lots of people who have different ideas and are pulling you in different directions. Usually, I have to be the person who says no to things or ask for a change in things and most of the times, some parties (including your own client) will not see the value in you making particular arguments and they just want the deal to be done. But my job, most of the time is to point out the risk and possible outcomes of taking the risk. With one deal that we had, around 2 summers ago, I was the one who was holding up the announcement of the deal because the selling club had not provided an indemnity which stopped my client, the agent, from being sued in the future. I held up the signing of the player until we had the indemnity in writing from the selling club. We waited for two and a half hours for that indemnity to come through whilst the buying club was going crazy with us to get the deal finalized, but I did not let the player or the agent sign the deal until we received it.
In light of the current situation surrounding Bury FC, do you feel there is a need for stricter regulation of who can own a football club? Or are you of the opinion that a club belongs to the fans and thus should be owned by the fans?
The answer to the second part is that I think it’s difficult now for fans to own a club for different reasons. For example, the top clubs are just too expensive now. Could things change if the new government decides to nationalise clubs by law? Maybe they could. For Bury FC specifically, I think it’s fair to say that the regulations for the lower fringes of the EFL are not as stringent as for the upper echelons of the UEFA Champions League or Premier League.
Do you think that the regulations on the upper leagues are stringent enough then?
It depends actually on what you are looking to safeguard. If you are looking to ensure that clubs are living within their means so that there is not a lot of financial instability, then the regulations at the top level have done well because most clubs are close to being profitable or breaking even at the very least. If it is because you want to stop people of a certain character because they have been involved in other difficult scenarios like insolvencies, criminal records etc., then there are provisions already in place but there might be scope to tighten them. The problem at present, throughout all the leagues, is what is called the owners and directors test which is a declaration that is to be signed with statements like ‘You have not been declared bankrupt or insolvent’ or ‘You do not have an interest in another club’ or ‘You do not have any convictions’. But all of that is an objective test. It is not based usually on somebody’s opinion. For example, to be a solicitor, I have to pass a suitability test which is a test to see if people think my actions or activities are becoming of a solicitor. In case of football, there is no subjective test and only an objective test. The question that arises is that whether certain elements become more subjective and whether then as a result you make subjective value judgements.
Football is gaining traction in India and is currently India’s second most popular sport especially with the advent of the Indian Super League.
However, the ISL is yet to attain the kind of success that the IPL, for example, has achieved. How do you feel that the game can be promoted in a country like India?
That is the billion rupee question. I am trying to compare this to the situation before the Premier League went behind the paywall. I think the Premier League has a problem in the future because not enough people have been watching it now for a number of generations. I think, for the ISL to be as successful as it can be, it needs to provide tickets at cost pricing or just above cost pricing, which I think it is already doing. I also think that it needs to provide broadcasting for free on the internet to everyone so that, over a long period of time, it will become a set fixture in the Indian consciousness for the television and internet watching public where you align an easy ability to watch an investment for over 5-10 years. This would eventually lead to the next generations, and it might not happen even for the next 10-15 years, to start watching games. Most of Premier League’s monies come from broadcasting rights. But the only way to sell broadcasting rights is by creating demand. Football in England has evolved for 150 years. Technology is India’s real advantage. Look at how easy it is to make content accessible. To me it is very simple. How you convince people that they want to be entertained is with an interesting data product that is accessible to everyone. That is what is happening in the UK at the moment with women’s football. They have decided to put the WSL live on OTT free for everyone.
Copyright notice
This work was written for and first published on LawInSport.com (unless otherwise stated) and the copyright is owned by LawInSport Ltd. Permission is granted to make digital or hard copies of this work (or part, or abstracts, of it) for personal use provided copies are not made or distributed for profit or commercial advantage, and provided that all copies bear this notice and full citation on the first page (which should include the URL, company name (LawInSport), article title, author name, date of the publication and date of use) of any copies made. Copyright for components of this work owned by parties other than LawInSport must be honoured.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Well that didn't take long - the touting for compensation claims has begun following the publishing of yesterday's report on Neurodegenerative Disease Mortality among Former Professional Soccer Players
From the Telegraph
Legal View: Brain injury findings could be landmark in battle to win compensation for stricken ex-players
Ipek Tugcu - 22 October 2019 • 8:45pm
The University of Glasgow’s study is of huge significance in football’s long-running history with brain injury. The fact that neurodegenerative disease was listed as the primary or contributory cause of death among so many former players is staggering. The links are known and football’s governing bodies have a responsibility to the players. If they do not now act, they will leave themselves vulnerable to legal claims.
The law is clear and football is no different to any other employer-employee relationship. If your employer knows of a risk that can be mitigated and takes no reasonable action to remedy it, you are looking at legal redress.
Compensation is calculated on the extent of injury and financial loss caused by the negligence. If it is someone in the middle of their career, injured because of failings that should have been prevented, you could be looking at compensation to cover loss of earnings, treatment, private care and adapted accommodation.
It is this knowledge of the risk which is critical. Football’s governing bodies cannot say, “We did not know, there were no statistics or research” and that is why this is a turning point. There are time limits on when you can sue someone. It would be important to consider what information was known, or ought to have been known, at the time. This would include evidence such as warnings from doctors.
On the basis of the overwhelming evidence, I do not think we are far off the situation in the United States where significant legal claims have been settled by the National Football League.
Nobody is saying any incidence of head injury is a legal claim. We accept there will be injuries – however, more needs to be done. Football can make further reasonable adjustments which would protect the authenticity of the sport. This could include reducing practising headers, and improving concussion protocols.
For this to work, any changes must be applied globally. For footballers, this is their job and they should be safeguarded.
Ipek Tugcu is an associate solicitor at the brain injury team at Bolt Burdon Kemp
Concussion in football | What could change?
Temporary substitutes for head injuries: The difficulty of quickly assessing head injuries was startlingly evident in the Champions League last season when Jan Vertonghen came back on but was then removed from play.
Independent doctors: FIFpro, the global players’ union, is lobbying for doctors independent of either team to have a final decision over whether a player stays on the pitch.
Concussion awareness: Scotland have won praise for a unified ‘If In Doubt, Sit Them Out’ campaign across sports but similar coordination is needed across the UK.
Limit children's heading: The FA have emphasised a move away from repetitive heading practice and some medics also want a ban on heading among younger age groups.
Punish teams who flout guidelines: There was dismay last year when Morocco were not sanctioned by Fifa for allowing Nordin Amrabat to play only five days after being concussed.
From the Telegraph
Legal View: Brain injury findings could be landmark in battle to win compensation for stricken ex-players
Ipek Tugcu - 22 October 2019 • 8:45pm
The University of Glasgow’s study is of huge significance in football’s long-running history with brain injury. The fact that neurodegenerative disease was listed as the primary or contributory cause of death among so many former players is staggering. The links are known and football’s governing bodies have a responsibility to the players. If they do not now act, they will leave themselves vulnerable to legal claims.
The law is clear and football is no different to any other employer-employee relationship. If your employer knows of a risk that can be mitigated and takes no reasonable action to remedy it, you are looking at legal redress.
Compensation is calculated on the extent of injury and financial loss caused by the negligence. If it is someone in the middle of their career, injured because of failings that should have been prevented, you could be looking at compensation to cover loss of earnings, treatment, private care and adapted accommodation.
It is this knowledge of the risk which is critical. Football’s governing bodies cannot say, “We did not know, there were no statistics or research” and that is why this is a turning point. There are time limits on when you can sue someone. It would be important to consider what information was known, or ought to have been known, at the time. This would include evidence such as warnings from doctors.
On the basis of the overwhelming evidence, I do not think we are far off the situation in the United States where significant legal claims have been settled by the National Football League.
Nobody is saying any incidence of head injury is a legal claim. We accept there will be injuries – however, more needs to be done. Football can make further reasonable adjustments which would protect the authenticity of the sport. This could include reducing practising headers, and improving concussion protocols.
For this to work, any changes must be applied globally. For footballers, this is their job and they should be safeguarded.
Ipek Tugcu is an associate solicitor at the brain injury team at Bolt Burdon Kemp
Concussion in football | What could change?
Temporary substitutes for head injuries: The difficulty of quickly assessing head injuries was startlingly evident in the Champions League last season when Jan Vertonghen came back on but was then removed from play.
Independent doctors: FIFpro, the global players’ union, is lobbying for doctors independent of either team to have a final decision over whether a player stays on the pitch.
Concussion awareness: Scotland have won praise for a unified ‘If In Doubt, Sit Them Out’ campaign across sports but similar coordination is needed across the UK.
Limit children's heading: The FA have emphasised a move away from repetitive heading practice and some medics also want a ban on heading among younger age groups.
Punish teams who flout guidelines: There was dismay last year when Morocco were not sanctioned by Fifa for allowing Nordin Amrabat to play only five days after being concussed.
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Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
A remarkable set of financial results from Ajax, the like of which will most defintely not be replicated by any club across Europe in the next round of financial figures. They increased their Income from £93million to £200million and still managed an operating loss of £4.4million. Only half of the story though in that they sold three players for a combined profit on sale of over £72million.Chester Perry wrote:@SwissRamble does his thing with Ajax's financial results for 2018/19 season - got to say I am enjoying his sojourn into Europe and hoping he will examine the catastrophic AC Milan accounts - they are the only grand old club in Europe who make Man United's fall from grace look like a minor inconvenience
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 4286690304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After a season of winning the domestic double and reaching the semi-final of the Champions League it will be interesting to see later this evening how they have further progressed on the pitch when they take on Chelsea in Amsterdam.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The Price of Football Podcast Episode 3 - Manchester United special
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/p ... ad0019e102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/p ... ad0019e102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The cost of policing still remains a significant issue in the lower leagues - @AndyhHolt recently had a goat bottle throwing Blackpool fans about it - this is an welcome initiative from the EFL
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ect-enable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ect-enable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@SwissRamble takes a look at Real Madrid's 2018/19 financial Results
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0973814784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Selling Ronaldo for 100m at 33 seemed like good business but it definitely hit their other revenue streams - meanwhile Juventus continue to ride a commercial revenue tidal wave since the signing
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0973814784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Selling Ronaldo for 100m at 33 seemed like good business but it definitely hit their other revenue streams - meanwhile Juventus continue to ride a commercial revenue tidal wave since the signing
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Royboyclaret
- Posts: 3879
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Nothing too unexpected there from Real Madrid as they continue to report astronomical numbers. Things about to change though as they embark on stadium redevelopment which will set them back some 595million euros, although that cost will be spread over their accounts until 2049. They remain third in Europe in terms of Wages paid behind Barcelona and Man United.Chester Perry wrote:@SwissRamble takes a look at Real Madrid's 2018/19 financial Results
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0973814784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Selling Ronaldo for 100m at 33 seemed like good business but it definitely hit their other revenue streams - meanwhile Juventus continue to ride a commercial revenue tidal wave since the signing
One fascination for me though is their Matchday Income which is 143million euros within a Total Turnover of 751million euros. Based on their average attendance last season of 60,568 the calculation is circa 2,383 euros per supporter, or just over £2,000 in our currency. To put that in context Burnley's average matchday revenue per fan was a mere £273 (£5.6million matchday income over 20,500 average attendance).......Certainly not cheap being a fan of the Spanish giants, or is it that we as Burnley fans don't know how lucky we are. Perhaps a bit of both.
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Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Just a little bit more on that. Our matchday Income for season 2017/18 of £5.6million represented just 4% of our Total Income of £139million.
The equivalent figure at Real Madrid was 19%, 143million euros within a Total Income of 751million euros.
The equivalent figure at Real Madrid was 19%, 143million euros within a Total Income of 751million euros.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Bristol City join Hull to become the 2nd Championship club to post it's financial results for 2018/19 - @KieranMaguire looks them over
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9081419777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5 year financial summary
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6840432640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 9081419777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
5 year financial summary
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6840432640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Wolves owners Fosun confirm that they are still looking for an external investor, though they are being picky about it and are even considering a combined public listing of all their sports assets including agency Gestifute
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/wolv ... er-vision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/wolv ... er-vision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
This is Moneyball podcast on Match Fixing - with a player who succumb to the offer
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mon ... dcast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mon ... dcast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Reading release aerial footage of their new £50m training complex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... MqNR9_YymA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is it me or does Gawthorpe look better value at 23% of the cost - or did the land cost around £40m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... MqNR9_YymA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
is it me or does Gawthorpe look better value at 23% of the cost - or did the land cost around £40m