Football's Magic Money Tree

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Article from FCBusiness about whether a club can force pay reductions on players - much of this has been covered in recent posts

https://fcbusiness.co.uk/news/covid-19- ... l-players/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm

Aberdeen is a sensibly run club, they have insurance that covers a wide range of issues (including the pandemic) now they are being told that that insurance will only pay out until the end of April (the renewal date for the policy) going forward the insurance will not cover the pandemic as the insurer has removed the wording and will not bring it back.

https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/03/26/aberde ... ght-thing/
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:45 pm

Interesting thread from John Mehrzad QC on re those Premier League clubs wanting to prevent City getting a "Stay" on their ban from CAS if their ban appeal ban is not heard before the beginning of next seasons European competitions (I posted about it and Burnley's involvement a couple of days agao)

https://twitter.com/JohnMehrzadQC/statu ... 6207301632

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:52 pm

The Mail with an overdramatic headline but some good content talking about the latest understand of the financial issues facing the English pyramid

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... tball.html

more on that EFL sabbatical plan for players

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... wages.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:47 pm

@KieranMaguire talks about his book the Price of Football

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

If that persuades you to buy, it is now available direct from the publishers for £9.99 (release price was £40) https://www.agendapub.com/books/33/the- ... f-football

if you want more persuasion all Kieran's royalties are going to @TrussellTrust the organisation behind the initial setting up of foodbanks around the country

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:27 pm

@Vysyble have announced that this years "We're so rich it's unbelievable" annual report on the financial state of the game will be made free to all (yeay!!) it will be the 5th edition and has been provocatively titled "The illusion of wealth within football" - now we just have to wait until June (lot of that about at the moment - waiting)

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1243166726151376898

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:44 pm

Barcelona announce a series of actions relating to the impact of Coronavirus - part of it announces wage cuts across the board, that they say will be proportional to contracts - though it doesn't sound like anything has yet been formally agreed

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/new ... -barcelona

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:57 pm

Wage cuts/deferrals It is an issue that is being played out across Europe - and it is rife with difficulty as this article in the Guardian shows

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -wage-cuts

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:21 am

In the Premier League, however, there is talk of a uniform approach

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... oronavirus

the uniform approach appears more about politics rather than the needs/circumstances of either the players or the individual clubs.

I posted earlier today about risk and responsibility being passed to players in regard to short extensions to contracts for the elongated season - this is another one where players may feel that they are being coerced into doing something they do not want/be able to do. People look at the their earnings and:
- forget that those 10-12 years have to pay for the rest of their life;
- forget that those players have probably just watched their investments fall through the floor as the economy and stock market tanks;
- forget that they may have their own financial commitments that may take a high proportion of their income;
- forget that their career can end in a moment with injury

EDIT the clubs of course have already resisted the coercion that Brighton instigated with offering a 1000 seats to NHS workers and hospital passing it on to Bournemouth - who matched it but did not pass it on
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:41 am

John Mehrzad QC rips up that FIFA plan to enforce player registration to the end of the current season whenever that may be

https://twitter.com/JohnMehrzadQC/statu ... 8963236864

I suspect that courts (especially European courts) would also have plenty to chew on if FIFA/UEFA/Leagues prevented a player from transferring to a new club when a pre-contract agreement is in place

So far the Coronavirus has seen a business boom for Accountants and Lawyers - you can bet they are taking pay cuts at the moment

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:46 am

And just to emphasize that point about lawyers - Football League clubs ready to seek millions in compensation from Premier League and EFL if the season is called off due to coronavirus outbreak - from the Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... d-off.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:53 am

The cancelling of the season for leagues in the lower reaches of the pyramid to help them survive appears counter-intuitive given the desperation in the Premier League and the EFL to see the season completed so they can survive. The Independent investigates why

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 25981.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:59 am

Bristol Rovers reveal their 2018/19 financial results - a clear example of how nuts the game can be down there - they made an operating loss of £4m which is roughly the same as Accy's revenue - Accy made a small profit finished 1 point and 1 place above them

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 2582630402

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:16 am

This story is being repeated across the media - Premier League clubs now 'want the season CANCELLED' even if it means Liverpool DON'T win the title with 'embarrassed' bosses fearing they look like 'petulant children' with the nation in turmoil - we will see, I suspect they are hoping FIFA/UEFA step in to help with the legal ramifications - though as we have seen in other discussions that will be difficult

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ELLED.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:04 am

It has been mentioned in passing, mostly about Liverpool getting the tile in Nike kit, but the issue of shirt deal transfer is a real one and is another that is likely to head to the courtroom

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ummer.html

there is a table in this report which breaks down the shirt deals for all 20 PL clubs - manufacturer, main sponsor and sleeve - first time anywhere I have seen our umbro deal valued

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:42 am

Manchester United to effectively ask ticket holders to "pass it forward" (if they can/want to) if season cancelled or games played behind closed doors

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... s-17991596

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:51 am

This appraisal of the current status of situation in the English game reveals some disquiet in the Championship around clubs taking advantage of the suspension for their own ends given their financial over reach up to this point

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52063085

It effectively points the collective finger at the speculative spending of Leeds and Birmingham

It also shows that the league members are no closer to the collective reset that has been talked up in the media in the last couple of weeks

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:23 pm

this could be both interesting and informative - World football summit initiates a serious of discussion/interviews looking at the post pandemic game

https://worldfootballsummit.com/coronav ... lary-caps/

the first piece is a discussion on more stringent salary caps like for say the one in NBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS3H6Dg ... e=emb_logo

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:35 pm

There are over 500 first team players in Europe's big 5 leagues who have contracts that are due to expire in June

https://twitter.com/tifosy/status/12435 ... 40/photo/1

that is some headache to deal with if you extend the season - though as is clear, there is no easy way out

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:36 pm

Athletico Madrid join Barcelona in imposing wage cuts on players and staff

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 30416.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 pm

I posted a couple of weeks ago about FIFA sacking the board at the Trinidad and Tobago FA - I made the mistake that this was a spin off from the Jack Warner days and corruption was being cleaned up (oh what a silly boy) the tale is probably even more sorry than that - the FIFA president had moved to support an ally that had been democratically replaced in an election - from Josimar Football

http://josimarfootball.com/infantinos-revenge/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:01 am

Sheffield Utd have posted their 2018/19 financial accounts a big loss - not sure how much was bonuses for promotion

full accounts https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

@KieranMaguire takes a look https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6019160065

The club do have the ongoing issue resulting from the court case of ownership last year - the new majority owner is obliged to buy the ground and other assets this summer - that is not going smoothly

https://www.sufc.co.uk/news/2020/march/club-statement/

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:28 am

This is interesting and not only because Private Equity is essentially betting on the return of football generating solid incomes - Bundesliga Seeks Cash to Plug 300 Million-Euro Virus Hole

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... f=Xka7aNox

The 50+1 rule in Germany has the added benefit that German clubs are very controlled into how they are run financially

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hjx ... ll&f=false

English football is very different as we know and it is extremely unlikely for Private Equity to provide finance for a league structure that exhibits no control over it's members

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:46 am

Apparently Nike have agreed that Liverpool can lift the title in New Balance kit should the season ever be completed

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceLFC/stat ... 8753925121

and if this pause runs until this time next year?

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:32 pm

@KieranMaguire demonstrates that it is apparently impossible to get promoted from the Championship without incurring losses

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5804120064

- Income numbers suggests having parachute payments helps but is no guarantee in winning promotion
- shame there is no way of understanding what proportion of wages/losses are related to promotion bonuses

This post from @Vysyble underlies just how far clubs are pushing for promotion though

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1243589012113285120

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:39 pm

speaking of @KieranMaguire and the chaps of @Vysyble - the latter took an unusual step with their latest blog yesterday, picking up on a throwaway comment from Maguire - they kind of went to town on him without naming him

https://vysyble.com/blog

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:32 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:32 pm
@KieranMaguire demonstrates that it is apparently impossible to get promoted from the Championship without incurring losses

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5804120064

- Income numbers suggests having parachute payments helps but is no guarantee in winning promotion
- shame there is no way of understanding what proportion of wages/losses are related to promotion bonuses

This post from @Vysyble underlies just how far clubs are pushing for promotion though

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1243589012113285120
Well, we certainly know the proportion of Wages that are related to promotion bonuses with regards to our Club over the last decade, so I guess that's a key factor from our point of view.

'08/'09......bonuses of £3.2m within a total Wage bill of £13.4m
'13/'14......bonuses of £6.1m within a total Wage bill of £21.6m
'15/'16......bonuses of £11.3m within a total Wage bill of £38.4m.

All the above pale into insignificance when compared to the bonuses paid for finishing 7th in the '17/'18 season when the figure was £23.0m within a total Wage bill of £81.6m. Further proof, of course, of just how far our Club has progressed over the last ten years.

Incidentally the Losses before tax in each of those promotion seasons were (£11.7m), (£7.9m) & (£4.8m) respectively.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:46 pm

good to see you posting Roy - was getting worried that you had been struck down

so we only made an operating profit on the 3rd promotion,

what are your feelings about where we are heading financially if this pause drags out 6 - 12 months - it has got me worried I have to say - none of our directors has the pockets deep enough individually or, I suspect, collectively to get us to the other side of that in strong financial health. It would be a great shame to see so much good work on and off the field taken away and our position usurped by the likes of Aston Villa who have 2 billionaires to dig them out of it and convert hundreds more millions into shares of ever decreasing value.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:46 pm
good to see you posting Roy - was getting worried that you had been struck down

so we only made an operating profit on the 3rd promotion,

what are your feelings about where we are heading financially if this pause drags out 6 - 12 months - it has got me worried I have to say - none of our directors has the pockets deep enough individually or, I suspect, collectively to get us to the other side of that in strong financial health. It would be a great shame to see so much good work on and off the field taken away and our position usurped by the likes of Aston Villa who have 2 billionaires to dig them out of it and convert hundreds more millions into shares of ever decreasing value.
Very difficult to predict anything right now, Chester. People insist on looking for certainty in what is a very uncertain world but in reality the general outlook seems to change on an almost daily basis. From a BFC perspective I fully take your point that the longer the pause lasts the more likely we are to suffer long- term problems.
People appear to be cancelling Sky Sports subscriptions in numbers and that can only have a long-term detrimental effect on the amounts Sky will in turn provide in terms of broadcast income to the Premier League. That element is so crucial to Burnley and even the smallest adjustment will have an serious impact on our total Income. In perhaps another four weeks or so there will be more clarity to the situation and I'm still optimistic that the current season can be brought to a successful conclusion.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:53 pm

@SwissRamble does a deep dive on Fulham's 2018/19 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 5232623616

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:59 pm

Today's Price of Football podcast looks at Villa, Portsmouth and Bury along with footballers pensions

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0c ... IBhAE&ep=6

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:53 pm
@SwissRamble does a deep dive on Fulham's 2018/19 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 5232623616
No real surprise to see Fulham reporting a Loss for the year, since 9 of the 17 PL clubs to publish results so far to Jun.'19 have also made a Loss. The surprise though is that, although they have spent 6 of the last 10 seasons in the PL, every single one has resulted in an Operating Loss (£275m over those 10 seasons).

Also Shahid Khan has pumped in £322m in his short time there including two relegation seasons. Once again a far cry from the situation at Turf Moor where our credit facility has been turned off because we haven't required it for several seasons!.........Think our accounts will be revealed later this week, but not expecting any major shocks.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:53 pm

@KieranMaguire has managed to get hold of Southampton's 2018/19 Accounts (announced over 2 weeks ago)

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 4093075457

there still aren't at companies house at time of posting but will be soon

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:23 pm

Spurs 2018/19 financial accounts have finally been made public - @KieranMaguire has had a look

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8439801856

full accounts https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:28 pm

...and yet theyve announced they are cutting the wages of all their non football staff and will be seeking to use the governments furloughed staff scheme to make up the difference...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:32 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:28 pm
...and yet theyve announced they are cutting the wages of all their non football staff and will be seeking to use the governments furloughed staff scheme to make up the difference...
Yes the billionaires are not coming out of this well are they - still did notice they had £1.3 billion of liabilities as of last summer :shock:
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:42 pm

Meanwhile @SwissRamble does his deep dive into the 2018/19 financial results of Notts Forest - showing what a bloodbath that league is going to be as a result of the pandemic

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0518554625

and to think their near neighbours Derby were in negotiations for a £30m loan before the shutdown (God knows what it would be secured on)

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Buxtonclaret » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:14 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 pm
I posted a couple of weeks ago about FIFA sacking the board at the Trinidad and Tobago FA - I made the mistake that this was a spin off from the Jack Warner days and corruption was being cleaned up (oh what a silly boy) the tale is probably even more sorry than that - the FIFA president had moved to support an ally that had been democratically replaced in an election - from Josimar Football

http://josimarfootball.com/infantinos-revenge/

Its a different deodorant at Fifa these days.
Doesn't mask the same old stink though.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:44 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:46 am
And just to emphasize that point about lawyers - Football League clubs ready to seek millions in compensation from Premier League and EFL if the season is called off due to coronavirus outbreak - from the Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... d-off.html
I reckon they'll struggle. They can't sue the Premier League for their own failure to fulfil their fixtures, because it isn't the Premier League's fault. So all they can sue them for is failing to promote clubs in accordance with league rules - except as they haven't finished the season, the league rules can't be applied as written.

If the FL declared that the season ends as it stands, then the clubs not in promotion spots could sue the FL. So I doubt that's going to happen. The FL would IMO reluctantly concede that they can't declare Leeds and West Brom to finish first and second.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:27 pm

I have posted a fair few times in the last couple of years about the cost od sacking managers - this article in the independent rightly asks why clubs do not put proper effort into their recruitment

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 37726.html

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by IanMcL » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm
Aberdeen is a sensibly run club, they have insurance that covers a wide range of issues (including the pandemic) now they are being told that that insurance will only pay out until the end of April (the renewal date for the policy) going forward the insurance will not cover the pandemic as the insurer has removed the wording and will not bring it back.

https://www.afc.co.uk/2020/03/26/aberde ... ght-thing/
Disgusting from an insurer...as usual.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:32 pm

@Vysyble lament Burnley FC dipping into economic loss during 2018/19

https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1245083719725191168

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by IanMcL » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:27 pm
I have posted a fair few times in the last couple of years about the cost od sacking managers - this article in the independent rightly asks why clubs do not put proper effort into their recruitment

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 37726.html
It is what our chairman does best.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:12 am

Mike Ashley is really struggling in his dealing with his public persona during this pandemic - his gut money making instincts - which have made his fortune are now making him a pariah outside of Newcastle as well, with every manoeuvre questioned the most recent being using Covid-19 legislation to delay publishing Newcastle's 2018/19 accounts for up to 3 months - Palace have done the same

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6656004096

There is only an outside chance that it is for a reason other than they would be published showing healthy cash and profit figures days after furloughing non football staff

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:49 am

Blackburn Rovers 2018/19 Accounts once again show they have their very own Magic Money Tree

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 1239420929

no need for them to go cap in hand to the Government

full accounts https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:18 am

@SwissRamble looks in depth at Tottenham's 2018/19 financial results

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 9453549573

anyone see a need to furlough 550 non playing staff?

EDIT if you look carefully you can see reference to Burnley's latest figures in this and where we stand in the league - should mean a report on us from @SwissRamble tomorrow I think -

talking of reports on us - very surprising not to have has one from @KieranMaguire - he quoted our new wage figure a couple of days ago so must be aware of the declared results, unless he hasn't noticed the full set of accounts on the clubs website

EDIT 2 for those who haven't worked out Tottenham's cash predicament yet - those results showed about a quarter of spurs revenue was Champions league based income (more if you include Matchday and sponsorship income which could take it over 30%). There is a chance they may not be in Europe at all next season - Europa league would see a £50m - £60m drop in Income
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:38 am

@KieranMaguire has finally woken up to Burnley's 2018/19 financial results

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8981610497

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:57 pm

Ans so it begins, following the announcement last week that Nordic Broadcaster NENT was suspending it's payments for Sports Rights to those leagues/associations that has paused activities, and yesterday's Canal + announcement that they would not be paying the French Ligue's this week's instalment, other international broadcasters are seeking legal advice about obtaining refunds from the Premier League

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 1585820067

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by dsr » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:12 am
Mike Ashley is really struggling in his dealing with his public persona during this pandemic - his gut money making instincts - which have made his fortune are now making him a pariah outside of Newcastle as well, with every manoeuvre questioned the most recent being using Covid-19 legislation to delay publishing Newcastle's 2018/19 accounts for up to 3 months - Palace have done the same

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 6656004096

There is only an outside chance that it is for a reason other than they would be published showing healthy cash and profit figures days after furloughing non football staff
Premier League rules insist that full accounts be submitted to them by the end of December. So football clubs have no excuse for being late.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:10 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:55 pm
Premier League rules insist that full accounts be submitted to them by the end of December. So football clubs have no excuse for being late.
Exactly - it is a PR exercise

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