Football's Magic Money Tree

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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:43 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:21 pm
UEFA Statutes amended to include a minimum of two women on the UEFA Executive Committee


It's been ratified.

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/02 ... s-amended/
notice how they choose to promote the bundled decision as a way to get at dissenters - the anger at the dissent that is pretty obvious from Ceferin in his comments post the vote - the question is 'will he be persuaded to change his mind?' as so often seems to occur when the prospect of an extended actual draws close. We have seen this scenario play out before in football and wider sporting governance.

from The Independent

Aleksander Ceferin takes parting shot at former Uefa ally after announcing departure date as president
Zvonimir Boban resigned in protest at proposed rule changes and Uefa will have a new leader by 2027

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 92850.html
https://archive.ph/BEb7X

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Foshiznik » Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:43 pm
notice how they choose to promote the bundled decision as a way to get at dissenters - the anger at the dissent that is pretty obvious from Ceferin in his comments post the vote - the question is 'will he be persuaded to change his mind?' as so often seems to occur when the prospect of an extended actual draws close. We have seen this scenario play out before in football and wider sporting governance.

from The Independent

Aleksander Ceferin takes parting shot at former Uefa ally after announcing departure date as president
Zvonimir Boban resigned in protest at proposed rule changes and Uefa will have a new leader by 2027

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 92850.html
https://archive.ph/BEb7X
If you look at the amendments as passed they literally just added "started on or..." to clause 69.2. Given Ceferin has decided not to go for a further term in 2027, it seems to be making very little difference.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:11 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:57 pm
If you look at the amendments as passed they literally just added "started on or..." to clause 69.2. Given Ceferin has decided not to go for a further term in 2027, it seems to be making very little difference.
The broad base of these unrelated items should have seen independent votes on each of them - that would be an example of good and democratic governance. Instead what we got was a huge fudge to push everything through and crucially make it easier to identify dissenters, that is autocratic governance. Only time will tell if Ceferin is true to his word on not standing again, which he should have announced prior to the vote also, for now there is still opportunity for him to change his decision and extend his reign.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:57 pm

Meanwhile, it takes a government minister to point out to UEFA the perils of multi-club football, France like Belgium is awash with clubs that fall under this situation, where the club involved is far from necessarily being the primary concern in a sporting sense of the operation

from The Washington Post

UEFA urged by French minister to protect soccer from risk of owners investing in multiple clubs
https://archive.ph/HVezv.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:11 pm
The broad base of these unrelated items should have seen independent votes on each of them - that would be an example of good and democratic governance. Instead what we got was a huge fudge to push everything through and crucially make it easier to identify dissenters, that is autocratic governance. Only time will tell if Ceferin is true to his word on not standing again, which he should have announced prior to the vote also, for now there is still opportunity for him to change his decision and extend his reign.
hmmm- about as clear and firm as a lake of ink

from The Independent

Uefa president’s unexpected exit could yet have a twist in the tale
Comment: Aleksander Ceferin’s move comes amid mounting criticism but, as Miguel Delaney explains, the Slovenian’s rant after a perceived resignation at the Paris Congress leaves mystery surrounding his motives

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 92960.html
https://archive.ph/l8Mu0

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:49 pm

This decision was not too surprising, neither is the likely dissenter who once again may test this rule through the courts, it is a routine that is becoming habitual for them, kind of ironic for a club/ownership that doesn't like rules

from The Athletic

Premier League clubs vote for stricter rules over associated party transactions
https://archive.ph/4FkDD

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:07 pm

More wrongdoing at Barcelona and more FFP related payments to reduce their squad budget - this is what happens when you persistently seek to flex/stretch rules and cut corners. They will delay by appealing again (this has been running for four years already) but one wonders what practice they have been following in the meantime and if they have built themselves up another big problem.

from The Athletic

Barcelona ordered to pay €22.7m due to incorrect tax payments
https://archive.ph/uQeHE

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:16 pm

Most of this report is just opinion, but if the shared, new, rumour that 777 Partners I mainly given Everton an i.o.u rather than hard cash is true, there there really are going to be problems for the club and potentially a number of it's suppliers/service providers/creditors - the latter including clubs who are owed transfer fee instalments in early summer.

from Football Insider - who I wouldn't normally post from but this is from their own podcast

Everton takeover: Ex-CEO suggests deal could be hijacked after what 'I'm hearing from sources'
777 Partners to be beaten to Everton deal by rival investors?

https://www.footballinsider247.com/ever ... m-sources/
https://archive.ph/ZiQGP

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 09, 2024 6:52 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:49 pm
This decision was not too surprising, neither is the likely dissenter who once again may test this rule through the courts, it is a routine that is becoming habitual for them, kind of ironic for a club/ownership that doesn't like rules

from The Athletic

Premier League clubs vote for stricter rules over associated party transactions
https://archive.ph/4FkDD
More on that Manchester City threat of the new rules - I have a suspicion we have either abstained or changed tack from the previous vote

from The Telegraph

Man City believed to be behind Premier League legal threat over ownership rule changes
Premier League clubs such as Chelsea, Newcastle and City have most to lose from a redrafting of multi-club ownership rules

https://archive.ph/Qnx7D#selection-2681.0-2769.217

from The Times

Premier League tightens sponsorship rules despite Man City legal threat
Vote exposes split among top-flight clubs on issue of associated-party deals, with champions believed to have threatened a legal challenge

https://archive.ph/DpZ5P

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:48 pm

It will not be a popular opinion but I agree with the Premier League's stance here - the rules state that these hearings are heard in Private and that should work for all parties - I watched the DCMS hearing at it was primarily about political point scoring - as many have been and not about the good of the game on the whole, the Premier League is being scapegoated for being successful,. It operates within the bounds of the law, if MP's want more they need to change the laws, which is entirely within their powers as the prospect of a new Independent Regulator for Football bears testimony too. though they have to be careful about the load they put on 20 clubs to support the whole game within England, when it is has been repeatedly shown that governments of all sides are more than happy to use the Premier League in support of their and the nations soft power initiatives.

from the Independent

Premier League chief refuses to release minutes of key Everton hearing after Parliament request
Everton were given a 10-point deduction for failing Profit and Sustainability Rules

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 93771.html
https://archive.ph/2Stmd
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:29 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 6:52 pm
More on that Manchester City threat of the new rules - I have a suspicion we have either abstained or changed tack from the previous vote

from The Telegraph

Man City believed to be behind Premier League legal threat over ownership rule changes
Premier League clubs such as Chelsea, Newcastle and City have most to lose from a redrafting of multi-club ownership rules

https://archive.ph/Qnx7D#selection-2681.0-2769.217

from The Times

Premier League tightens sponsorship rules despite Man City legal threat
Vote exposes split among top-flight clubs on issue of associated-party deals, with champions believed to have threatened a legal challenge

https://archive.ph/DpZ5P
The Daily Mail are saying that, as I suspected, Burnley and Palace abstained on the vote this week, in a change of position from December

Premier League chief Richard Masters is under pressure from rebel clubs who have united against his leadership... but the majority of sides still support the 55-year-old executive
Several Premier League clubs have united against the Premier League CEO
However, Richard Masters still retains the support of the majority of clubs

https://archive.ph/ycGmn
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:29 pm
The Daily Mail are saying that, as I suspected, Burnley and Palace abstained on the vote this week, in a change of position from December

Premier League chief Richard Masters is under pressure from rebel clubs who have united against his leadership... but the majority of sides still support the 55-year-old executive
Several Premier League clubs have united against the Premier League CEO
However, Richard Masters still retains the support of the majority of clubs

https://archive.ph/ycGmn
Meanwhile The Athletic suggest it was Aston Villa, not Burnley that abstained in yesterdays vote, meaning that Burnley voted against the new rule, which would be consistent with the December vote

The day the Premier League’s tensions over associated party rules became clear
https://archive.ph/nenDu
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:32 pm

A familiar story to this thread has raised it's head again at the Africa Cup of Nations

from The New York Times

China Keeps Building Stadiums in Africa. But at What Cost?
This year’s Africa Cup of Nations, like several previous editions, played out in Chinese-built arenas. It will end with familiar questions about their legacy.

https://archive.ph/R7XT5

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:54 pm

Meyer Leverkusen stretched their lead to 5 points today over Bayern Munich after defeating them. Yer this was a weekend marred with protests across German Football, dome (not all) were about one of the things that Leverkusen's non-German Fernando Carro is actively demanding in this article - external investment. including Private Equity.

from The Financial Times

German football needs to open up to outside investors says Leverkusen boss
Fernando Carro, CEO of the Bayer-owned side, believes scrapping the rule tying control of teams to club members will revive the Bundesliga

https://archive.ph/mlD5u

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:09 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:16 pm
Most of this report is just opinion, but if the shared, new, rumour that 777 Partners I mainly given Everton an i.o.u rather than hard cash is true, there there really are going to be problems for the club and potentially a number of it's suppliers/service providers/creditors - the latter including clubs who are owed transfer fee instalments in early summer.

from Football Insider - who I wouldn't normally post from but this is from their own podcast

Everton takeover: Ex-CEO suggests deal could be hijacked after what 'I'm hearing from sources'
777 Partners to be beaten to Everton deal by rival investors?

https://www.footballinsider247.com/ever ... m-sources/
https://archive.ph/ZiQGP
Paul Quinn, the occasionally contributor to and friend of this thread, better known as The Esk outlines the current debt position at Everton as the 777 Partners takeover saga drags on into a 22nd week. The article considers the creditors options if/when the 777 Partners bid is officially rejected by the Premier league and the options of other interested purchasers

Everton’s debt position, the ownership alternatives
https://theesk.org/2024/02/09/evertons- ... ernatives/
https://archive.ph/eSUq1
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:02 pm
Meanwhile The Athletic suggest it was Aston Villa, not Burnley that abstained in yesterdays vote, meaning that Burnley voted against the new rule, which would be consistent with the December vote

The day the Premier League’s tensions over associated party rules became clear
https://archive.ph/nenDu
With abstentions making the the 12-6 vote a winning one in regards to the new Associated Party Rules and regular media suggestions of distant/divisive factions over how to pay for the 'New Deal for Football', it is becoming obvious that the Premier League is no longer a united force. The problem (as always it seems) is not just that certain clubs want all the cake (or at least as much as they think they are entitled to, but that certain clubs want to do what they want when they want, simply because they think they can.

Over the years I have regularly posted about cultural differences of 'rules bases' and 'deals based' structures. The Premier League, (being English) has been wide open to investment from all across the world, and that means that business/cultural practices/understandings have come with those investments, it is no surprise that we are in the situation we are in. The real problem is does the Premier League have the executive clout to see it's way through this rather than being dragged through the courts at every turn by a disgruntled members who are used to getting their own way on everything.

from The Telegraph

Premier League clubs are divided — but courts are not the solution
Vote on financial regulations revealed the consensus that held elite game together is under threat of falling apart

https://archive.ph/9KFch

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:19 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:06 pm
hmmm- about as clear and firm as a lake of ink

from The Independent

Uefa president’s unexpected exit could yet have a twist in the tale
Comment: Aleksander Ceferin’s move comes amid mounting criticism but, as Miguel Delaney explains, the Slovenian’s rant after a perceived resignation at the Paris Congress leaves mystery surrounding his motives

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 92960.html
https://archive.ph/l8Mu0
Matt Slater is another journalist who thinks Ceferin has left the door open for another term at UEFA.

Also in this column UEFA/Premier League solidarity distributions, and the Chinese retreat from European/English football

from The Athletic

Don’t rule Ceferin out, multi-clubs, how to split £3.8bn – The Business of Football
https://archive.ph/3U9qK

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:35 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:12 pm
With abstentions making the the 12-6 vote a winning one in regards to the new Associated Party Rules and regular media suggestions of distant/divisive factions over how to pay for the 'New Deal for Football', it is becoming obvious that the Premier League is no longer a united force. The problem (as always it seems) is not just that certain clubs want all the cake (or at least as much as they think they are entitled to, but that certain clubs want to do what they want when they want, simply because they think they can.

Over the years I have regularly posted about cultural differences of 'rules bases' and 'deals based' structures. The Premier League, (being English) has been wide open to investment from all across the world, and that means that business/cultural practices/understandings have come with those investments, it is no surprise that we are in the situation we are in. The real problem is does the Premier League have the executive clout to see it's way through this rather than being dragged through the courts at every turn by a disgruntled members who are used to getting their own way on everything.

from The Telegraph

Premier League clubs are divided — but courts are not the solution
Vote on financial regulations revealed the consensus that held elite game together is under threat of falling apart

https://archive.ph/9KFch
There may be another factor. The Govt and the 'regulator'. That person is going to have one hell of a job. The PL may feel setting out a case to them about eg how much money to give to the EFL will give them a better result than without a regulator. PL owners say why should they give money to EFL owners some of whom are richer than they are.
Once the UK Govt say they are going to get involved just changes the nature of the football politics.
Agree though the divide between the Man City/Newcastle side and the Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal side. East v. the USA. Chelsea are by some accounts a bit of each with some rumoured East investment in Clearlake.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:06 pm

A lengthy report on the current status of Brazilian football - I consider the title to be at least 3 years too late given the timeline of changes that have occurred there along with the inevitable multi-club banquet

from The Financial Times

Brazilian football: the next frontier in global sport?
The country is unrivalled as a talent factory, but its clubs are barely known overseas. International investors hope a new league could change that

https://archive.ph/jpvJ9

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:22 pm

the Guardian's new Business of Soccer column is quickly showing itself to be required reading, digging in depth into it's subject - the latest looks at the growing Empire of FSG and asks questions about just when it will be an opportune moment to walk away from one or more of its marquee assets

Does Jürgen Klopp’s exit signal the end of the golden age of FSG?
As Liverpool prepares to look for a new manager, and its owners look to expand their portfolio, both parties may be racing toward a reckoning

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... e-penguins
https://archive.ph/TVQs6

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:46 pm

One of the things I like about Miguel Delaney is he is willing to take the time not only to examine the details and read the small print, but then also to take the time to consider a whole range of implications and then mix in the problems others are encountering, we all know that European football doesn't need a Super League - that doesn't mean that once huge, significant and successful European clubs would not benefit from their own international League, rather than being increasingly bit part fodder to the few with the economic might to challenge in the Champions League and December's ECJ verdict may just have given them the grounds by which to make it happen, though we can be relatively certain that this is not what A22 and Florentino Perez had in mind

from The Independent

Predictable Champions League has lost its magic —and now faces an uncertain future
On the pitch, the knockout stages of the Champions League appear to be more predictable than ever – but off it, the future of European football’s premier competition looks unclear

https://archive.ph/FYrxg

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:08 pm

Yet another thoughtful piece examining the fallout of Aleksander Ceferin's post-vote announcement of his intention not to run in 2027 - not to surprisingly this is another in a growing list of columns and articles that believes Ceferin has left the door open to change his mind and extend his reign, not least because of the number of difficult situations his press conference has given rise too. Is it too Machiavellian to suggest it was a very calculated and deliberate act?

from The Guardian

Uefa faces mounting threats no matter when Aleksander Ceferin leaves top job
European football’s governing body is navigating multiple challenges and the looming race to lead the organisation from 2027 will not help

https://archive.ph/geZZD

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:53 pm

In many ways it has taken the media far to long for write about the role of Richard Masters, the temporary stand in who kept the position because nobody else wanted it. What is clear is that he is currently being judged on issues that are not necessarily covered by his remit and the fallout actions of the actions of his shareholders (who are actually his employers). He has shown himself to be reasonably competent for those items that fall under his remit, the rest is politics and he is neither a politician or a dictator.

from The Athletic

Running the Premier League – an impossible job?
https://archive.ph/S4Zlu
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:08 pm

PL feels a bit more rigged than before with a latest vote. The 3 year rolling maximum loss formula being replaced by a % of revenue formula for player transfers, salaries, etc. That seems to favour clubs in euro comps and help keep them there !

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:04 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:16 pm
Most of this report is just opinion, but if the shared, new, rumour that 777 Partners I mainly given Everton an i.o.u rather than hard cash is true, there there really are going to be problems for the club and potentially a number of it's suppliers/service providers/creditors - the latter including clubs who are owed transfer fee instalments in early summer.

from Football Insider - who I wouldn't normally post from but this is from their own podcast

Everton takeover: Ex-CEO suggests deal could be hijacked after what 'I'm hearing from sources'
777 Partners to be beaten to Everton deal by rival investors?

https://www.footballinsider247.com/ever ... m-sources/
https://archive.ph/ZiQGP
This is a mess.....How have Everton allowed this financial situation to unfold ?

One of the biggest names in the English football game is literally on the precipice. A total debt of £1billion, the majority of that to Moshiri, who is taking less and less interest in the Club by the day. A masive question mark surrounds 777 partners who appear front-runners to take a leading stake in the Club and there remains a very real and existential threat of administration.

A colleague who has been connected to Everton for more than 40 years is seriously concerned for their immediate future with the potential docking of between 0-29 points a more than realistic possibility.......And we thought we had problems at Turf Moor.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfcjg » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:08 pm

Bloody hell, Everton are in a real mess if the rival bidder hasn't got pockets as deep as a nation state.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:40 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:04 pm
This is a mess.....How have Everton allowed this financial situation to unfold ?

One of the biggest names in the English football game is literally on the precipice. A total debt of £1billion, the majority of that to Moshiri, who is taking less and less interest in the Club by the day. A masive question mark surrounds 777 partners who appear front-runners to take a leading stake in the Club and there remains a very real and existential threat of administration.

A colleague who has been connected to Everton for more than 40 years is seriously concerned for their immediate future with the potential docking of between 0-29 points a more than realistic possibility.......And we thought we had problems at Turf Moor.
Some of the mess was due to excessive spending on players under changing managers so no team pattern.

But the bulk is due to the spending on the new stadium financed by short term loans. Spurs had even higher new stadium spending and stadium debt, but the borrowing is sensible long term loans.

Everton had the wrong bloke in charge !

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:47 pm

^^^^
One other associated issue. Everton mentioned barriers to entry into the then big6 PL teams. They tried to spend their way in, unsuccessfully. Thought big spending on players and stadium would help entry and might have done handled differently. But for any team, as Newcastle are finding, the spending rules seem somewhat in favour of the big6...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:49 pm

bfc8 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:40 pm
Some of the mess was due to excessive spending on players under changing managers so no team pattern.

But the bulk is due to the spending on the new stadium financed by short term loans. Spurs had even higher new stadium spending and stadium debt, but the borrowing is sensible long term loans.

Everton had the wrong bloke in charge !
"Sensible" ??

£450 million, in albeit , interest free loans.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:56 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:49 pm
"Sensible" ??

£450 million, in albeit , interest free loans.
The Spurs debt is higher than that, something like £700m in long term loans, US banks, locked in at low interest rates, no principal repayment until the end of the loan, a bullet payment, may be rolled over again even then. Stadium expected to finance itself long term with much bigger crowds and corporate hopsitality etc. Also the dual pitch system allowing nfl games and other non football events.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:05 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:49 pm
"Sensible" ??

£450 million, in albeit , interest free loans.
My use of sensible was about Spurs, see above answer.

If you are referring to Everton then I agree ill-advised. Everton might have followed Spurs lead, surprised they didn't. May have been Usmanov was financing them removed from the scene. Perhaps too late by then to arrange the sort of loans Spurs had and one problem lead to another, etc, with the various loans now from various sources, quite short term and high interest.

Royboyclaret
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:57 pm

The "inner-circle" at Everton are now suggesting imminent problems.

As an aside bfc8, really missing your "On this day" threads.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:09 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:57 pm
The "inner-circle" at Everton are now suggesting imminent problems.

As an aside bfc8, really missing your "On this day" threads.
otd 1901 Burnley 7 Newton Heath 1 FAC, had thought it a bit old to mention !

Everton, dire, but.

There is a chance someone is keeping their powder dry spotting a good long term opportunity, maybe following administration, maybe not. And may need some years in 'div 2', level 2.
Positive would be investment of say £500m, with the banks, current owner etc taking a £500m haircut.
You get a state of the art 52,000 stadium. As an owner, director, few health and safety worries, well set with just routine maintenance for the forseeable future. With good management the team should get back to the PL if relegated. A good owner would pace themselves and gradually grow Everton back to the top echelons.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Royboyclaret » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:18 pm

bfc8 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:09 pm
otd 1901 Burnley 7 Newton Heath 1 FAC, had thought it a bit old to mention !

Everton, dire, but.

There is a chance someone is keeping their powder dry spotting a good long term opportunity, maybe following administration, maybe not. And may need some years in 'div 2', level 2.
Positive would be investment of say £500m, with the banks, current owner etc taking a £500m haircut.
You get a state of the art 52,000 stadium. As an owner, director, few health and safety worries, well set with just routine maintenance for the forseeable future. With good management the team should get back to the PL if relegated. A good owner would pace themselves and gradually grow Everton back to the top echelons.
That man Willliam Jenkinson knew where the back of the net was........then off to West Ham!
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Chester Perry
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:31 pm

I have long been a fan of the Unofficial Partner Podcast - but this latest one is on another level again - I will definitely be listening to it again and Roger Mitchell who is the interviewee here is incredibly impressive - so much so I will be going away and trailing through the back-catalogue of his own sports business podcast 'Are you not Entertained' (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a ... 1438454748) which I think I have come across before, but let it fall off my radar.

there is so much here that has been covered in this thread, but never with opinions and thinking of such clear and precise conviction all given without fear - mind blowing

UP372 Roger Mitchell's Perfect Storm
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/u ... 0645168694

We caught up with Roger Mitchell while he was in London, to talk about his new book Sports Perfect Storm: An Industry Now Totally Adrift.

Roger describes himself as 'a chartered accountant from Glasgow' who at the end of the 1990s 'made his personal passion for sport a profession' when he became CEO of the Scottish Premier League, giving him a seat at the UEFA table. Now he runs his own boutique investment firm Albachiara, from his home on Lake Como.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by ecc » Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:07 pm
More wrongdoing at Barcelona and more FFP related payments to reduce their squad budget - this is what happens when you persistently seek to flex/stretch rules and cut corners. They will delay by appealing again (this has been running for four years already) but one wonders what practice they have been following in the meantime and if they have built themselves up another big problem.

from The Athletic

Barcelona ordered to pay €22.7m due to incorrect tax payments
https://archive.ph/uQeHE
We know they've used future TV rights to get funds (this dates back about 18 months).

“In total, Sixth Street will receive 25% of the club’s La Liga TV rights for the next 25 years.”

Don't know whether they've sold more still. On the face of it, it "might" not sound excessively drastic to some people but it is to me.

You tend to think we only know fragments of the reality behind the finances of so many clubs. And then one day it all comes out.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:25 pm

Many have come to accept the argument that Champions League money is the major source of economic disparity in domestic leagues. For those who have still to accept that premise, just look at the increased bonuses that UEFA have announced for this season - and this is before you consider all the additional match day and commercial income. It is entirely possible that Manchester City could earn more from Champions League participation that any of the 3 promoted clubs will earn this season.

from The Telegraph

Manchester City chasing £100m Champions League payday
City's perfect group stage run means they could take European prize-money beyond six figures should they lift the trophy at Wembley in June

https://archive.ph/Z00bX

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:08 am

So how does a club with limited revenues and catchment innovate to create additional non-football revenue - Inverness Caledonian Thistle thought they had planning approval for their answer last week, now they are not so sure as it has been called back for review.

from The Times

Why Inverness Caledonian Thistle wants to build a £40m battery farm
Football club had won planning permission for money-raising energy project until councillors had a rethink

https://archive.ph/vHiLJ

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:23 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:04 am
I have posted about the use of facial recognition a few times on this thread (and others) here is some positive news on the matter from the Football Supporters Association

https://twitter.com/WeAreTheFSA/status/ ... 6912719875
Even after it being deemed unlawful by the Court of Appeal in 2020 it seems police forces are still using Live Facial Recognition technology at football matches -the get around is that they are 'testing the technology, Here Martin Cloake uses his 'The Football Fan' blog to give us the detail

The great facial recognition experiment
Live facial recognition is a controversial technology that has been challenged in the UK courts and in Parliament. But the police are, once again, using football fans as a testing ground.

https://martincloake.substack.com/p/the ... ue&r=8adje
https://archive.ph/P8SJY

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:38 pm

hmmmn - we have had expected dates for a final decision on the 777 Partners takeover of Everton a number of times now - it seems that the club a pushing hard on their briefings to the media again - is this just a continuation of 777 Partners trying to force the issue because of the potential catastrophic fall out if their bid is blocked by the Premier League - I am still surprised that the FA have given their consent, though that has been publicised for weeks now.

from The Telegraph

Everton’s 777 Partners takeover decision expected by end of February
Exclusive: Insiders say FA has already approved the deal with Premier League contact with 777 expected to include an exact date for decision

https://archive.ph/eT8Xd

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:56 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:45 pm
I should have said that the leading bid for West Brom at the moment is from Egyptian businessman Mohamed Elkashashy and Manchester-based sports lawyer Chris Farnell (infamously beaten to our club by ALK.VSL) who have teamed up with local businessman Alex Hearn, owner of domestic heating firm Warmfront.
It seems that Alex Hearn has conceded in the takeover race for West Brom and has also been magnanimous in defeat with regard to how the debt the current owner of the club will be repaid, including the removal of those eye-watering interest rates that were kicking in. All in all it seems like a series of wins for West Brom particularly as Chris Farnell no longer appears to be in the picture

from The Athletic

West Brom takeover edges closer as owner Guochuan Lai agrees to repay loan
https://archive.ph/mqJlU

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:08 am
So how does a club with limited revenues and catchment innovate to create additional non-football revenue - Inverness Caledonian Thistle thought they had planning approval for their answer last week, now they are not so sure as it has been called back for review.

from The Times

Why Inverness Caledonian Thistle wants to build a £40m battery farm
Football club had won planning permission for money-raising energy project until councillors had a rethink

https://archive.ph/vHiLJ
Interesting one this. How to get non football income.
Mainly a by product, incidental income. Ad hoc summer income from pop concerts, the occasional rugby match, etc.
But few examples of clubs investing to get non football income. Spurs invested heavily in the dual pitch system to get nfl games, etc.
Now this Inverness idea.
Needs a clear policy though. Next thing will be a club investing in oil wells to get additional non football income...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:17 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:56 pm
It seems that Alex Hearn has conceded in the takeover race for West Brom and has also been magnanimous in defeat with regard to how the debt the current owner of the club will be repaid, including the removal of those eye-watering interest rates that were kicking in. All in all it seems like a series of wins for West Brom particularly as Chris Farnell no longer appears to be in the picture

from The Athletic

West Brom takeover edges closer as owner Guochuan Lai agrees to repay loan
https://archive.ph/mqJlU
When you add up the figures of all the things that need to be settled with WBA still seems a lot lower figure than the bfc one of c£200m. That's taking debts plus perceived share valuations of WBA compared with bfc.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:40 pm

bfc8 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:05 pm
Interesting one this. How to get non football income.
Mainly a by product, incidental income. Ad hoc summer income from pop concerts, the occasional rugby match, etc.
But few examples of clubs investing to get non football income. Spurs invested heavily in the dual pitch system to get nfl games, etc.
Now this Inverness idea.
Needs a clear policy though. Next thing will be a club investing in oil wells to get additional non football income...
It is indeed an interesting one - and was brought up on The Price of Football podcast on Monday

at the moment there is nothing stopping someone like PiF waking a multi-billion dollar investment in Newcastle's name and then using profits from the venture to rapidly grow the clubs finances even selling off in the near future at a profit - though that would be scrutinised for fair value if related parties were involved, a sale may fall under the same rulings of stadium and training ground sales as no longer counting towards FFP but for now earnings from normal operations wouldn't, for now at least.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:49 pm

ecc wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:12 pm
We know they've used future TV rights to get funds (this dates back about 18 months).

“In total, Sixth Street will receive 25% of the club’s La Liga TV rights for the next 25 years.”

Don't know whether they've sold more still. On the face of it, it "might" not sound excessively drastic to some people but it is to me.

You tend to think we only know fragments of the reality behind the finances of so many clubs. And then one day it all comes out.
This is still the current position though that is after sales of 10% and 15% in the space of a 3 weeks in June and July 2022 as financial catastrophe loomed - they are the kings of kicking the can down the road and in part that is down to the membership model

this is how the Financial Times reported it

Barcelona seals further €300mn from US group Sixth Street
Investment fund secures additional 15% of media rights as club raises funding for summer signings

https://archive.ph/LQgJI

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:24 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:40 pm
It is indeed an interesting one - and was brought up on The Price of Football podcast on Monday

at the moment there is nothing stopping someone like PiF waking a multi-billion dollar investment in Newcastle's name and then using profits from the venture to rapidly grow the clubs finances even selling off in the near future at a profit - though that would be scrutinised for fair value if related parties were involved, a sale may fall under the same rulings of stadium and training ground sales as no longer counting towards FFP but for now earnings from normal operations wouldn't, for now at least.
The current UEFA and latest PL rules lay down player spending, transfers, salaries, etc as a % of revenue, so clearly clubs want to maximise revenue that counts under the formula. Some say it favours clubs already in euro comps because they clearly already have that income, unlike clubs aspiring to join the euro comps.
But the developments/arguments about revenue will continue until the cows come home.
Unless of course UEFA adopt an idea they floated a while back of a flat cap on player expenditure unrelated to revenue. The likes of Real Madrid, Manchester United etc would no longer have the advantage. Not sure UEFA would go that far, 'glamour' clubs have always been there and probably need to be in the future.
But some sort of formula with a flat rate element and a revenue element might be coming before too long...

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:06 pm

the latest column from Grimsby Town co-owner feels tinged with frustration after the January Transfer window - he doesn't acknowledge that FIFA had made a number of attempts (foiled by the courts for being poorly thought through in relation to law in many jurisdictions). It also relates to the above post in regards to salary caps, albeit in a different context, though driving towards a similarly desired outcome.

on a separate note we are due the list of commissions paid to agents by clubs from both FIFA and the FA any time now

from The Guardian

Time for a salary cap to keep leagues competitive and reduce agents’ influence
Cap would remove conflicts of interest and keep more money within the game

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -influence
https://archive.ph/vS4UZ
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:16 pm

bfc8 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2024 4:24 pm
The current UEFA and latest PL rules lay down player spending, transfers, salaries, etc as a % of revenue, so clearly clubs want to maximise revenue that counts under the formula. Some say it favours clubs already in euro comps because they clearly already have that income, unlike clubs aspiring to join the euro comps.
But the developments/arguments about revenue will continue until the cows come home.
Unless of course UEFA adopt an idea they floated a while back of a flat cap on player expenditure unrelated to revenue. The likes of Real Madrid, Manchester United etc would no longer have the advantage. Not sure UEFA would go that far, 'glamour' clubs have always been there and probably need to be in the future.
But some sort of formula with a flat rate element and a revenue element might be coming before too long...
Think the formula would be a fairly high flat cap, higher than a lot of clubs' player expenditure, but an absolute limit all the same. UEFA/PL would collect revenue data from all the clubs and relate the flat cap to a highish figure from the data. But club caps would not be directly related to their own revenue.
Would be a bit like the days of the individual player maximum wage abolished over 60 years ago now. Why a top player like Stan Matthews played for Blackpool/Stoke where he could earn the same money as eg Man Utd.
The flat cap would apply to the squad as a whole and as said above not directly related to individual club revenues.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by bfc8 » Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:30 pm

^^^^
Clubs only allowed to spend their revenue if below the flat cap, borrowing to get up to cap not allowed.
Some high revenue clubs may not be able to spend all their revenue, may give bigger profits to owners, or lead to reduced unit prices, ie reduced ticket prices. In the real world the latter perhaps unlikely.

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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:31 pm

UEFA releases it's annual report on The European Club Finance and Investment Landscape - noting amongst other things that some 300+ European clubs are now part of the multi-club model

https://cdn.vev.design/private/aTCxVXgB ... t-2023.pdf

The Associated Press ha produce this report which is popping up on news sites all over the web

UEFA details trend and risks of teams in multi-club owner groups in $28BN European soccer industry
https://apnews.com/article/uefa-multicl ... 5480b4f95b
UEFA details trend and risks of teams in multi-club owner groups in $28BN European soccer industry

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