Football's Magic Money Tree

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm

So Arsenal are moving to Adidas and leaving Puma behind for £60m a season - and to think Puma are getting Man City for only £50m a season - kinda shows how long you have to be around at the top to generate those big numbers - though this only puts Arsenal 3rd - according to reports - in the global shirt deal figures fyi 1st are Barcelona at an eye-watering £140m a season 2nd are Man Utd at £75m a season (Cannot believe that Real are that far behind but who knows)

would love to know if we got more than a twix for our deal - given Barca earn about as much as we did in total last season

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... plier-puma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:51 pm

The eye watering figure at Barcelona is within a Total Income for '17/'18 of 914 million euros.

Converted will be circa £802 million which sees City and even United trailing way behind.

And yet little old Burnley will post a higher Operating Profit than any of those three.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 am

That Barcelona record revenue is 200m euros up (or a Neymar sale) up on the previous year and they expect to break a billion euros in the current season - absolutely bonkers rates of revenue increase (definitely much more than a club now) - though the revamped stadium will cost a fortune when it happens.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 am

A bit of light reading - FourFourTwo have had a go at Premier League squad values - no prizes for guessing bottom place or 1st.

Have to say I am a little surprised as to where we sit and as to a couple of the clubs below us - must be all those England Internationals and a shock 7th place that has skewered the values - not sure many would agree with them with the way we have started this season

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ra ... team-worth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm

Have Leeds decided that the only way they will return to the Premier League is if the Championship is turned into Premier League 2 - I doubt it but their owner seems keen to rehash the Gartside idea.

Interestingly Leeds feel they lose out by appearing on TV about 20 times a year

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ampionship" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:14 pm

So the top guy at Uefa would like to impose a luxury tax on the very biggest of clubs so that the rest of clubs in European competition can have a better chance of winning one of them especially the Champions league - not sure way the 'taxed' money goes (possibly UEFA for re-distribution across a few sticky palms).

Naturally the said big clubs are not great fans of the idea - Bruce Buck of Chelsea fame pitches his argument without any sense of irony about natural selection (we all know how naturally big Chelsea were until the Oligarch arrived and distorted things)

What do you think

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... lubs-join/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and just to confirm that Chelsea are not what Buck thinks they are - Eden Hazard believes he probably needs to move to Madrid to win the ballon d'or

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... y-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:21 pm

The FA's attempts to rid itself of Wembley appears to be falling on deaf ears at grass roots level - it seems nobody trusts the FA executives to disperse the proceeds in a sustainable, coherent and reasonable way - and for years those same blazers were portrayed as idiots - or is it that they are worried about their tickets for the cup final that prevents fans of the participating clubs from attending

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... nding-row/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:12 am

They don't even need to get rid of Wembley to raise £600m. If they take a 12% levy for grass roots football out of the TV contract for the three seasons 2019-2022, then they've got the £600m there; and I'm sure the league won't suffer if the players on £50k per week can only get £45k. English Premier wages as a whole will still be well above everyone else's apart from the Spanish two.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:18 pm

The Brand Finance Directory has it's Football 50 report out again - given it's rankings of the top 50 football brands in the world - and astonishingly we are 27th this year a meteoric climb that sees us 12th in England

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/ ... ll-50-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... -1-9396813" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This has us at a brand value of £166m - more than Ajax, Lazio and Celtic

It needs to be remembered that these values can go up and down - Southampton's fell 54% last season

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:55 pm

Excellent stuff.......and another feather in our cap.

A 44% increase is nothing short of sensational, but I'd prefer to see a bit more detail behind that headline figure.

Exactly what period is covered, for instance?

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Roy - at a guess I would say it is at the end of the 2017-18 season - that tends to be when these things are collated - we had a lot of positive press last season especially with us being the only outsider to have a proper go at all the big 6 (the Americans and many others lapped up the David v Goliath narrative of little Burnley amongst the billionaires)

Of course our Stability and investment from monies earned rather than donated makes us stand out too

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:12 pm

The problem I have is that whilst all the required information for '17/'18 is available for the likes of Man Utd, Man City & Barcelona, it most certainly is not for Burnley.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:33 pm

I think we all share that particular frustration Roy - though I would probably do the same if I held it privately like Mike and John.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:42 pm

Suggestions that a Saudi prince in charge of funds totalling £850billion wants to buy Man United with hints he wants to put one over Abu Dhabi - can't se it myself - but imagine a united without the debt and associated "management" fees to finance - as talked about elsewhere on this thread that has already seen over a £1billion or an average of £84m a season taken out of the club.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... LLION.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

having said that Old Trafford is in dire need of a substantial upgrade - and this guy could certainly afford the £1.5 billion plus to do Old Trafford proud

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:The problem I have is that whilst all the required information for '17/'18 is available for the likes of Man Utd, Man City & Barcelona, it most certainly is not for Burnley.

The report is dated May 18 so probably none are using up to date accounts. The vast majority of premier league clubs (other than those that are listed) don't file until around March time so we're no different to any of them.

The methodology seems somewhat vague, I suspect financial results don't play that large a part reading it.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:18 pm

Here's a thought for all those who think an Amazon/Apple/Facebook/Netflix bid for Premier League Football rights will see a surge in earnings.

To my mind all of those companies will only be interested in showing all the games live at the same time at least Midweek (it is telling that this is the only type of package amazon bought in the last rights sale). We are often told that an important part of the attraction of the PL is the atmosphere, but will that remain if all games are shown at the same time - evidence from the Championship says that attendances will drop significantly - 2 months in to their trial of all midweek games on live TV has shown an almost 9% drop in attendances - that is a mighty quick and direct impact that will have executives at league and club level nervous about such a model.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... h-Sky.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also tend to think that such an approach will lead to the disintegration of collective bargaining as the big clubs will demand their "rightful" share based on audience figures. The International rights arguments have already demonstrated fractures in relationships and cohesion of the league.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:52 pm

More arguments going on about the London Stadium deal and the omnishambles it has become - sounds like there is more to come in the next few weeks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45891527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

particularly astounded by the fact that West Ham had to take the Stadium Management to court to get the info required to answer the FA charges re the match against us last season

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:09 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Here's a thought for all those who think an Amazon/Apple/Facebook/Netflix bid for Premier League Football rights will see a surge in earnings.

To my mind all of those companies will only be interested in showing all the games live at the same time at least Midweek (it is telling that this is the only type of package amazon bought in the last rights sale). We are often told that an important part of the attraction of the PL is the atmosphere, but will that remain if all games are shown at the same time - evidence from the Championship says that attendances will drop significantly - 2 months in to their trial of all midweek games on live TV has shown an almost 9% drop in attendances - that is a mighty quick and direct impact that will have executives at league and club level nervous about such a model.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... h-Sky.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also tend to think that such an approach will lead to the disintegration of collective bargaining as the big clubs will demand their "rightful" share based on audience figures. The International rights arguments have already demonstrated fractures in relationships and cohesion of the league.

I'm one that does think that. Personally I think it will coincide with an end to the ban on broadcasting 3 o'clock games and will involve deals to watch all games for a club (i.e. a Man Utd "season ticket"), pay per view, etc as well as simultaneous streaming (not just midweek).

I'm not sure how indicative the championship midweek games are on whether premier league attendances would drop. Partly as midweek isn't really indicative of the general trend (it's generally more difficult to get to games during the week) and also because a lot of Premier League clubs are oversubscribed in terms of tickets. I'd say it's more likely to cannibalise attendance from lower down the league.

I agree re: collective bargaining, this is going to be pushed against more and more.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:47 pm

Some more stuff on the blackout and Championship streaming and crowds here https://www.football365.com/news/is-it- ... omplicated" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't realise that Eleven Sports (owned by the bloke who owns Leeds) had already broken it a few times (albeit showing Spanish football).

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:36 pm

Seems that Tottenham's problems are continuing
- they are about to become the largest indebted club in Europe (beating United's £480m+) to financial institutions (rather than a ludicrously rich owner with plenty of spare change)
- which may explain the lack of transfer activity in the summer
- plus those hoping to be at the opening match of the new stadium might want to look away, the wiring problems still seem a long way from being resolved - with the pessimistic saying spring at the earliest for the grand opening

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:22 pm

for over 20 years now there has been talk of a break-away European League which would take the big clubs either away from us completely or from any other form of Mid-week competition. This may still be part of a grand plan at either the European Clubs Association or even for UEFA to construct something (that way they keep in the money). It seems that FIFA (I posted about this at the start of summer) want to jump the gun on everyone with their new Club World Cup and for good measure they like the look of the Nations League so want to nick that and """ it up for everyone too. As always it is about money - basically a group of investors as gone to them and said gives the rights to this and this and we will give you $25billion - and we know what FIFA are like when they see those dollar bills.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ons-league" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so what we know is:

- Nobody cares about fans - investors only offer such sums of dosh if they believe they are going to make a substantial profit and that means fans shelling out even more
- Nobody cares about small clubs - opportunities to play the big boys will become nigh on impossible; these new games will inevitably be shown when they have leagues matches robbing them of attending fans; ROI will force games to be spread over multiple game days in a week; TV saturation will be such that TV deals for lower leagues and domestic cups will evaporate.
- Nobody cares about players - all these games will lead to more of what we are currently witnessing at elite level - fatigue/mental health issues/injuries
- the bodies that are supposed to protect and develop the game are in it for the money they can squirrel away - from the legitimate (yet immoral) huge salaries they think they are worth to the bribes history shows many of them give and take and all points inbetween

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:31 pm

the impact of live tv games on lower league clubs is addressed in this article - which demonstrates the ludicrous levels we are currently at (87 games live on tv this week in the UK)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... all-league" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:23 pm

Re the FiFA projects on the Club World Cup and a World Nations League - The Times is suggesting the finance is from the Saudi's - can they make themselves any more unpopular or what?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:49 pm

I'm guessing that's so they can suggest it's hosted over there?

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:35 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm guessing that's so they can suggest it's hosted over there?

and that kind of travel, climate is just great for fans and players too - isn't it

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:38 am

How much does it take to get a tiny club into the champions League - helps if you are in a country with a small league - but even if you are a champion their - you still have to go through the qualification rounds.

anyhow the mighty Larne in Northern Ireland are on a quest to find out and have a blank cheque to do so - this should be interesting but might take a while as they are not even in the top flight and only last season were playing in front of crowds of 50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45930266" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this Gretna all over again?

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:53 am

Sounds like the Larne owner is a diehard supporter who just happens to be loaded.

You'd hope he will have seen what happened at the likes of Gretna and learned from it. He needs to instil a sustainable model within the club for after he is long gone. Hopefully he will - you've got to admire his ambition for his hometown club.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:37 pm

More on FIFA's plans to make more money

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... infantino/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45970117" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -vote.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as ever the guardian pulls no punches with it's take on things

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... pp-blatter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:05 pm

UEFA have officially told FIFA where to go on the revamped competitions and calendar - more politicking now to take place with a special commission to investigate the proposals - FIFA where no means maybe when there is a large stash of cash on the table - oh and they claim they would never get into bed with a sovereign wealth fund - balderdash I say

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:35 am

In post 302 above Roy highlight's the astronomical sums in Barcelona's latest accounts - this Daily Telegraph article ahead of the Clasico proves more eye watering - behind a paywall so copied in full

The stage is set for El Clasico - but with a backdrop of a financial storm for Barcelona and Real Madrid

It might interest fans of Liverpool to know that they have a stake in more than just Saturday’s home game against Cardiff City this weekend – when it comes to the 238th Clasico at the Nou Camp – the club from Merseyside occupies a curious position as regards the home team.
Barcelona’s financial accounts published by the club this month show that Liverpool are their single biggest creditor – with €118million plus significant add-ons still pending for the sale of Philippe Coutinho. Two of those extras are easily achievable: another €10million when Barcelona qualify for two more editions of the Champions League and €20million for 100 games played by the Brazilian. Another €5million due were Barcelona to win the Champions League.

Liverpool cut a good deal for Coutinho, selling a player who wanted to leave and replacing him seamlessly – although that is some liability, even to a club the size of Barcelona, whose accounts paint a very sorry story indeed. For all the millions around the world who will watch on Sunday, for the great drama and the cutaways to Lionel Messi injured in the stands, both these teams are facing a financial storm.

Football is so committed to the tradition of Real Madrid and Barcelona signing the best players, most notably the best in the Premier League, that the two clubs’ financial results, published over the last two months have been largely ignored. There is a collective belief that the cash to buy the likes of Neymar, Harry Kane or Eden Hazard will simply come from somewhere but the reality suggests otherwise.

Real Madrid, as this column revealed last month, would have had to report a €87million loss on their most recent results had they not sold Cristiano Ronaldo to Juventus for €100million and replaced him with the cut price Mariano. How is that going? They are seventh in the table, with the hapless Julen Lopetegui vulnerable if Sunday goes badly. But then the former Spain manager was just another cheap option.

As for Barcelona, their projection of a record-breaking €960million revenue next year has been the fiscal equivalent of a cunning decoy run. In the latest accounts, which run up to June 30, of this year the club reported that net debt stood at €157million, quite some leap from the previous year where they were claimed to be €8million in credit. Even more so when you consider that both Real Madrid and Barcelona have both changed the way in which they calculate net debt.
The clubs say they are just following the protocol of Liga president Javier Tebas – they often do that when explaining to their members an awkward new measure – and that now debt calculation does not need to take into account unavoidable obligations like accrued wages. Like Real Madrid, July 1 is the second of Barcelona’s massive bi-annual salary payments and all that cash sits on the club’s balance sheet to be included in the June 30 financial snapshot before it disappears.

At the general assembly at Barcelona, more democratic that the one Florentino Perez presides over at Real Madrid, members asked why the new debt calculation had been adopted. The official answer was that it was decreed by Tebas although a more likely explanation would be calculate the debt according to the old formula.

Were Barcelona to have taken all their obligations into account on June 30 their debt would have been €490million. It is in the constitution of the club that if the club’s debt rises to more than twice the value of its EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation) then the board is obliged to take emergency measures to reduce the debt, or resign. Needless to say a debt of €490million more than surpasses that threshold for action.

As for their rivals, Real Madrid things are little better. They are borrowing €575million for a stadium rebuild that will not add a single extra standard seat. They borrowed to cover their wage bill. They announced a €45 million loss in the next year’s accounts for the demolition of the dated Esquina shopping mall that adjoins the Bernabeu. They even racked up losses of €29 million on their basketball club Real Madrid Baloncesto, the current European champions.

Barcelona’s cumulative losses on their multi-sports teams alone came to €40million, including €28million on their basketball team, €8million on handball and €2million on FC Barcelona Hoquei – the roller hockey team. One might argue in favour of the subsidising of minority sports but it is the extent to which Barcelona do so that makes no sense. FC Barcelona Handbol had a turnover of €1.7million and still managed to spend a further €8million, making their €9million budget greater than all those 15 other teams combine that make up their Liga Asobal.

Unsurprisingly, FC Barcelona Handbol were Spanish handball champions for the eighth year in a row, but what of the long term health of the football? If they are to pull off the big money signings everyone automatically expects then it will need a lot of co-operation from the selling parties. Manchester United will have to be prepared to let Paul Pogba go on a buy-now-pay-later deal. Madrid will have to rely on Chelsea doing a cut-price deal for Hazard with a year left on his contract.

Sunday’s Clasico will be the first since 2007 not to feature either one or both of Ronaldo or Messi, the personal battle for pre-eminence that has dominated world football for ten years and taken one of the world’s great sporting and political rivalries to another level. Madrid have already lost their talisman and failed to replace him. Barcelona are in their current situation despite the €200 million cash sale of Neymar who was once assumed to be the long-term successor to Messi.

The little maestro may yet win his fifth Champions League this season which would cost Barcelona another €5 million to Liverpool. A reminder that while it may have been a wonderful decade, it has come at an extraordinary price.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:20 pm

Mentioned this before but as Brexit draws near Premier League Clubs are getting worried about the implications in relations to transfers (not to mention the poor exchange rate on the pound)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46038799" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps more clubs should adopt the Athletic Bilbao approach where 85% of the team is from it's Academy

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... rs-la-liga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:29 pm

At Spurs - Poch is showing the frustrations of Stadium delays and costs - Post 320 highlights some of the financial issues they face and more detail is included here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46049897" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:52 pm

Incredible levels of debt at both Real Madrid and Barcelona, particularly the latter.

Almost reaching unmanageable proportions and yet the numbers continue to grow, perhaps the tipping-point is not too far away for the Barcelona Board.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:00 pm

And both the La Liga giants have huge Stadium renovation plans too - no way Real can get the city to vastly overpay for the training ground to get them out of a financial mire this time though

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:40 am

Even more on Spurs and how they are looking to recoup some of the spend on the new stadium by what appears to be a radical gentrifying of the locality (one of the poorest in London) - needless to say this is going to become a right public relations mess and probably much much worse than the shambles Liverpool created around Anfield over a 20year period. It will get very interesting if the council exercised CPO's over their holdings though - and I can foresee many a legal battle around that one.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... neighbours" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:09 am

So here is an interesting one - Rangers (of the Glasgow variety) were one of the biggest clubs in the UK 25 years ago - from a financial perspective at least - now even given their "massive support they have posted losses of over £21m in the last two seasons with £14.3m of it being last season - this on a turnover of £32.6m (I suspect more than half a dozen Championship clubs beat that turnover and not all with parachute money) - just how cheap are those season tickets and what a difference their crap TV revenue makes.

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/171 ... s-concern/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... llion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Even more on Spurs and how they are looking to recoup some of the spend on the new stadium by what appears to be a radical gentrifying of the locality (one of the poorest in London) - needless to say this is going to become a right public relations mess and probably much much worse than the shambles Liverpool created around Anfield over a 20year period. It will get very interesting if the council exercised CPO's over their holdings though - and I can foresee many a legal battle around that one.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... neighbours" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There were CPOs to build the ground in the first place https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... etal-works" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What the article hasn't really mentioned is there has been a significant shift in the make up of Haringey council. Although it's still a Labour council it used to be very commercial with grand (and controversial) plans of selling a huge amount of council properties to a JV with Lendlease (the developer in the above) to create tens of thousands of new homes (but with a lot of controversy over who they'd be for). After the last council elections the council was mainly Corbynites rather than Blairites and this plan has been stopped.

That's the bigger background to the story, there's been a significant shift in the council's approach to development and they are now looking at doing developments themselves rather than partnering with giant developers. If you google Haringey Development Vehicle there's plenty out there, and plenty of arguments about the way forward.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:39 pm

I had kind of guessed that part aggi - what has changed in the last 10 years is a notion about regeneration that is not gentrification (not just Corbynites ) Spurs have missed that kind of "opportunity" and it will hit them hard especially with cpo's

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:49 pm

The talk of a European Super League never seems to die - Der Spiegel is claiming that 7 clubs got together recently to discuss the idea with claims that it could be in place by 2021 - The same article claims that the current President of FIFA was behind the lenient FFP penalties for Man City and PSG in 2014 - I have become so inured of this kind of thing that nothing surprises any more - the source is Football Leaks which seems to have millions of documents to support their claims - It seems Football has it's own Julian Assange or Edward Snowdon and he goes by the name of John

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46078651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:54 pm

The Guardian has more info on the European Super League plan

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -Liverpool" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while the Mail focuses on Infantino and City

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... ators.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:42 am

Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United
Manchester City

They plot to form Premier League and now they plot for Euro League of permanent 11 + 5 invitees.

The end of football as we have known it.

I say the 5 should be immediately expunged from the Premier League for subversive activity.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:36 am

IanMcL wrote:Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United
Manchester City

They plot to form Premier League and now they plot for Euro League of permanent 11 + 5 invitees.

The end of football as we have known it.

I say the 5 should be immediately expunged from the Premier League for subversive activity.

That would just make things easier for them

at the birth of the Premier League it was - Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton (the next big clubs were Sheff Wed, Villa and Leeds- how times have changed) - and Alan Sugar was instrumental in getting Spurs over the line before he became deeply involved with the club. - very telling that no Spurs in the talks re Super League - just seem to miss the boat all the time

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:48 am

Yes. Everton and Spurs thought they were 'elite'. The really big boys just use them. Now all those big boys can eat each other!

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:15 pm

David Conn in the Guardian on the eternal greed of the big clubs following the Der Spiegel revelations

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -satisfied" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the headline stating the blinking obvious to most of us at least

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:46 pm

Eventually, they will turn on each other to reduce the amount of money going to the lesser performers of their own league.

Imagine the pressure on corrupt activities, to ensure your share....

Just like the prem ensures their elite teams remain the same, by any means open to them including using referee influence, as any lesser club knows and Jack Wilshire suddenly realised, when he was loaned to Bournemouth.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:11 am

IanMcL wrote:Eventually, they will turn on each other to reduce the amount of money going to the lesser performers of their own league.

That battle has being going on for some time with regards to the Internationa rights in the Premier League and as of the next deal will change from the current equal shares - it has begun and will not end until it goes the same wayas domestic rights at the very least - making the disparity between top and bottom well over a hundred million (in TV monies)

I and others on here see the live internet subscription mode we are now very close too as the end of collective rights bargaining and the potential death of the professional league structure as: all the money will go to a very few teams; the Saturday afternoon live football ban will end; an/or top league games will be staggered over 3/4 days with no more than 2 sharing a kick off time

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:49 am

Those 5 teams can all bugger off then for all I care.

Promote an extra five from the 2nd tier and restart without the greedy bastards, with extra rules to ensure an even playing field. FFP with teeth, a wage cap, completely even TV rights money and a more even spread of prize money.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:07 am

Sadly, there will not be much TV money left for national leagues.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:08 am

How about a boycott of the 5 clubs, by other clubs fans?

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:31 pm

Doesn't matter to me if the money goes down, so long as it's split evenly and we get a competitive league back.

I don't think the money would go down *that* much anyway. And once fans of the breakaway 5 get fed up of travelling across half the continent to see their team play away games they may come back with their tails between their legs. Or how about once Real Madrid, Barca and Man U decide that they should get the biggest slice of the Super League pot and the other teams don't want to hack it...