Football's Magic Money Tree

[aggi]

Doesn't matter to me if the money goes down, so long as it's split evenly and we get a competitive league back.

There is an issue if the money goes down in that Burnley make far less money outside of TV than other clubs. Our "natural" position on without TV money is probably League 1. The majority of the Premier League (excluding the really big clubs) is the most level it has been for years as everyone has loads of TV money so they're all fairly well balanced (although people talk about things like Bournemouth's rich owners, the reality is that since they reached the premier league all of their spending is from money they've earned, not money from the owners, and it's the same for most clubs).

[Chester Perry]

Amid all the furore of the Der Spiegel stories - it seems some clubs are immune to negative publicity - Real Madrid have just agreed a new shirt deal with adidas at a mere £95m a year - that is how you pay for a Stadium refurb - wow

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... didas.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

no surprise that there are fresh calls to look into Man City's finances after the detailed and very damaging revelations in Der Speigel

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... legations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting that city claim that the documents are "hacked" "stolen" or "out of context" but never say they are fabrications or untrue

for those who have not read the articles in Der Spiegel links can be found here

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=34009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

PSG feeling the heat too after UEFA has re-opened it's investigation into it's finances following the Neymar and Mbappe deals - things are going to get ugly in both these cases as owners used to getting their own way will outspend the authorities in the courts - much like Tesco have been famous for in this country

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh the joys of feeling entitled

[Chester Perry]

In the Mail Martin Samuel has his say on FFP and the rampant greed and self protectionism in the game - what is your view

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -Play.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also in the Mail Ian Herbert counters by sticking the boot into City

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Der Speigel on the European Super League machinations - all the detail they have released so far - as with the other stories this is fascinating stuff that a certain Bolton ex Chairman would fully approve of (if only his club could be part of it)

greed knows no bounds

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 36447.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Keeping the Man City Football leaks to the numerous other threads it has spawned - I will focus attention on other Der Spiegel revelations - this post looks at the financials behind the summer friendly matches between the super powers otherwise known as the International Champions Cup (brought to you by the same guy trying to establish the breakaway European Super league

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 36556.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

In this post Der Spiegel lay into the head of FIFA Gianni Infantino and not without good reason

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 36439.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 36416.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Gianni Infantino does his best Blatter impression so far - by gnoring the stories about him and saying that players who take part in a European Super League would be banned from playing in the world cup - do we think the prime source of his ire is money related - the Der Spiegel documents clearly indicate that the clubs believe they can make more money by administering such a competition themselves - and what would it do to his own $25billion dollar baby


https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -cup-euros" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

In the light of their recent revelations Der Speigel talk to a Football Finance Expert about their findings

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 37216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The interesting thing for me is that he talks about the tax authorities being likely to want to know more - this is where it could really start to kook bad for City

[Chester Perry]

As if we didn't know it already the BBC concludes that we are at the point of the Football Authorities not having the power to take on the individual Super Clubs let alone a group of them together

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46132272" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Most football fans are well aware that respective FA's are pretty toothless.

[Chester Perry]

Der Spiegel keep on churning out the stories - this time how Kylian Mbappe is the most prolific earning teenager in Football History - at least he is an awesome talent and to think Van Gaal ignored Giggs recommendation to buy because he thought £5m was too much

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 37087.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and even though Mbappe does not have an agent (his parents look after his business) it is shocking 9though not surprising) how Jorge Mendes made 7.5m Euros from his transfer for spreading a few rumours to jack up the price

[Chester Perry]

Does John Henry think Liverpool can no longer compete with the financial muscle of the state owned clubs, has he become disillusioned by the inadequacy of the football authorities to implement their regulations or does he see a chance to make a significant profit - rumours are afoot of him touting Liverpool for $2billion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... LLION.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while they are currently impressive on the field much still needs to be done with the infrastructure both at Anfield and the New Training ground that is being developed - add to that the resistance of fans to price increases in the new facilities perhaps he has just had enough

[Chester Perry]

Yet more trouble for City - this time regarding 3rd party ownership and a FIFA Investigation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46159075" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That investigation is based on this Der Spiegel article I believe

http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 37618.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Meanwhile the Guardian looks at how this weekends Manc Derby has changed from the first one under the ADUG ownership - £2billion is quite the spend

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... investment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

More from Der Spiegel this time on agents with a focus on Pini Zahavi

http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 37628.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

With Football leaks dominating the news this month it was inevitable that people (other than those looking to silence them - by whatever means necessary I imagine) would start to look into those providing the information - an intriguing set of scenarios are being examined

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... cared.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

The Football Leaks stories we have seen so far have focused around Fifa, Uefa, Man city, PSG and the European Super League - this is primarily because the press we access tend to have readership that would want to know about these kinds of stories. There have been other stories around the world but the English Language versions have been harder to find. Here we have an Eastern European story of financial doping at Russian clubs and how Uefa assisted in the cover up

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/football ... all-clubs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Another Football Leaks piece - this time about Agents and how they play the tax authorities (including a an uncomfortable piece for David Dein - no wonder he was known as a fixer and deal maker at Arsenal)


https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... iles-fees/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Paul Waine]

and in today's Sunday Times, Business section:

West Ham sent off in email row with taxman

Brady football club loses court clash over agents’ fees

West Ham United is embroiled in a legal battle with the taxman over a cache of 12m emails that were handed over during an investigation into the arrangements for paying agents.

The football club filed a High Court claim against HMRC last month, accusing it of “unlawfully” holding the emails. The Hammers sought an injunction to force the taxman to return or destroy them, but a judge dismissed the application.

The row comes amid heightened scrutiny of football clubs’ finances, which have long been seen as opaque. Last month HMRC said it was looking into the tax affairs of 44 league clubs, 171 players and 31 agents — a significant increase in its level of activity.

In its defence, HMRC said West Ham was a suspect in “a criminal investigation into suspected offences of tax, [national insurance] and VAT fraud, and cheating the public revenue”. The tax authority denied that West Ham had voluntarily handed over the emails, or that it had agreed to hold them only as long as the club consented.

HMRC added: “If the copy emails contain material which is likely to be relevant evidence, either for or against any particular suspect or future defendant, then [HMRC] proposes to use them in any criminal prosecution.”

West Ham said on Friday that it had “fully co-operated with HMRC”.

[randomclaret2]

West Ham and " cheating the public revenue " in the same sentence ? ...No, I wont have it !

[Paul Waine]

Another Football Leaks piece - this time about Agents and how they play the tax authorities (including a an uncomfortable piece for David Dein - no wonder he was known as a fixer and deal maker at Arsenal)

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... iles-fees/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi CP, is Darren Dein related to David Dein?

Very interesting/informative report by Reuters. The last sentence says it all: "UK Treasury and millions of ordinary taxpayers lose out."

[Chester Perry]

Paul he is David Dein's son

[Chester Perry]

Uefa say it is possible they could reopen FFP investigations on a case by case basis - well they had to say something

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46184794" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Earlier in the summer a Premier League 2 breakaway was mooted (Gartside must be smiling somewhere) - now following the Football League's agreement for a new deal with sky which sees Championship clubs getting a little less than £3m per season a rumoured 15 clubs are looking at the idea much more seriously - they believe they should be getting seriously more - others would suggest this is what life would look like if the Big 5 leave for a European Super League.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[NL Claret]

Think it was tweeted by the price of football that a company called the Boleyn Pheonix purchased the old ground and then sold it to developers / housing for a tidy profit. Boleyn Pheonix were a company who had very few dealings, make of that what you will.

[dsr]

Earlier in the summer a Premier League 2 breakaway was mooted (Gartside must be smiling somewhere) - now following the Football League's agreement for a new deal with sky which sees Championship clubs getting a little less than £3m per season a rumoured 15 clubs are looking at the idea much more seriously - they believe they should be getting seriously more - others would suggest this is what life would look like if the Big 5 leave for a European Super League.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the Premier League don't support the 15, then they're off their heads. How much TV money do they think they would get for an independent secpnd division league that doesn't have promotion?

[Chester Perry]

tuppence I would say - I can understand Leeds griping about the money - they have over 20 games a season on the box and get very little reward for the disruption it causes them - the rights are not worth much even if it became a season ticket to stream every game for each club - this season's red button experiment is already shredding nerves I boardrooms

[Vegas Claret]

tuppence I would say - I can understand Leeds griping about the money - they have over 20 games a season on the box and get very little reward for the disruption it causes them - the rights are not worth much even if it became a season ticket to stream every game for each club - this season's red button experiment is already shredding nerves I boardrooms

aye, maybe those in the boardroom should charge 20 quid instead of 40 for midweek games and fill the stadiums instead of complaining

[Chester Perry]

Bear in mind that what Sky have agreed to pay for the Football league and League Cup is roughly what they saved on the next Premier League deal and have substantially more live matches for it as well (In both cases). Don't suppose the Sky subs will stay the same or reduce though will they - after all the new owner has to make their money back

[aggi]

Think it was tweeted by the price of football that a company called the Boleyn Pheonix purchased the old ground and then sold it to developers / housing for a tidy profit. Boleyn Pheonix were a company who had very few dealings, make of that what you will.

Some of this isn't particularly unexpected. Boleyn Phoenix is owned by Galliard Homes https://www.galliardhomes.com/media-cen ... rk-stadium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and Vincent Goldstein http://www.vfund.co.uk/project/former-w ... adium-e13/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who were known to be doing the West Ham redevelopment. It is standard practice to set up new companies for this kind of thing so the fact it had very few dealings is irrelevant.

What is interesting is the profit it made. It seems to have made almost £20m by buying the ground and selling it on which asks the question whether West Ham grossly undervalued it. It's also not clear who it has been sold to. I thought Galliard were doing the redevelopment but there's no indication in the related party transactions note that this was who it was sold to.

EDIT: Looks like Barratt are doing the development https://www.barratthomes.co.uk/new-home ... n-gardens/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It appears that Galliard/Goldstein made a tidy profit from the planning for the site.

[Chester Perry]

More on Leeds and other Championship and their appeal for more monies and the level of kick off changes for Leeds for a pitiful return (I am aware many here will have no sympathy for Leeds)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... isruption/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[claretonthecoast1882]

Never understood the leeds chant about sky tv.

They are on TV as much as they are for having a large armchair fanbase

[Chester Perry]

Seems like we are being asked to cough up £250k as thankyou to Richard Scudamore - like he hasn't earned enough

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... amore.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[NL Claret]

Some of this isn't particularly unexpected. Boleyn Phoenix is owned by Galliard Homes https://www.galliardhomes.com/media-cen ... rk-stadium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and Vincent Goldstein http://www.vfund.co.uk/project/former-w ... adium-e13/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who were known to be doing the West Ham redevelopment. It is standard practice to set up new companies for this kind of thing so the fact it had very few dealings is irrelevant.

What is interesting is the profit it made. It seems to have made almost £20m by buying the ground and selling it on which asks the question whether West Ham grossly undervalued it. It's also not clear who it has been sold to. I thought Galliard were doing the redevelopment but there's no indication in the related party transactions note that this was who it was sold to.

EDIT: Looks like Barratt are doing the development https://www.barratthomes.co.uk/new-home ... n-gardens/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It appears that Galliard/Goldstein made a tidy profit from the planning for the site.

Thanks for that Aggi, I'm not too clued up with this sort of thing. That is one tidy profit and I'm guessing as you mentioned West Ham under valued their old ground somewhat and Galliard / Goldstein were the beneficiaries of that.

[beddie]

We and all other clubs should refuse to make a contribution of £250k. For goodness sake, the man has carried out his job on the salary specified with what appears to be very high bonuses. He had a choice, to take the job at the salary offered or not. I'd much rather the club gave £250k to local causes in Burnley, like the homeless etc.

[Chester Perry]

Der Speigel's stories continue - today we have the back story on the Carlos Tevez "welcome to Manchester" signing - from the early days of ADUG ownership

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 38168.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Pini Zahavi is the focus of Football Leaks again this time for his apparent illegal control of a Belgian club after he supposedly sold it - the venture was an apparent illegal farming approach and sounds suspiciously like money laundering in places

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/football ... -revealed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chester Perry]

Football leaks and another agent - Jorge Mendes - this time involving Besiktas and supposedly dodgy deals

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/football ... tas-deals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


and when you have finished reading that - think to yourself - this is the man who is deeply ingrained at Wolves

[Chester Perry]

What is it with Spanish Football, Ballon D'Or winners and Dodgy tax schemes - Both Messi and Ronaldo have been done - now it seems Modric is in line for a hefty fine and a suspended sentence if he is lucky

https://theblacksea.eu/stories/football ... uZslzk5RzQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With the huge HMRC investigation into our own game this is likely to become a big thing over here soon

[Chester Perry]

And here is an example of why HMRC is paying such close attention - Again part of Football Leaks - it is going to run and run

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 38402.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dsr]

There's every chance that Burnley are one of the clubs investigated - every Premier League club is likely to be. If we're competing for the same players, and the same allegedly legal tax dodge scam is being run by so many clubs and every agent knows about it, how many clubs would have the strength of purpose to say that they think this tax scam is morally wrong even if it's legally right? If other clubs are all doing it and apparently getting away with it, there wouldn't be many clubs who wouldn't (reluctantly) join in. If half your income is tax free, that's a 25% competitive advantage in wages for the clubs that join the scam.

[aggi]

And here is an example of why HMRC is paying such close attention - Again part of Football Leaks - it is going to run and run

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 38402.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting, I knew there were tax implications re: treatment of agent's fees but I'd never really looked into what they were. As the article said, it's going to be easier to prove in high profile cases but I imagine they'll make their way down the leagues looking at this (although I think Burnley's payments to agents are relatively low so we shouldn't be too exposed).

One of my colleagues, a tax specialist, is here https://www.soccerex.com/events/soccerex-usa-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at the moment. Shows what kind of focus there is nowadays.

[Chester Perry]

This has been coming for a while but fits in with the farming type stories I have been running on here - but imagine top clubs not being able to sign players over 4 transfer windows as a punishment - January could be spectacular this year if clubs perceive the threat as serious


https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ssible-ban" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Would be amusing to see Chelsea, and others, getting decent length bans.

[Chester Perry]

Back to where this thread started - Man Utd have posted their quarterly results today - wages have jumped 10% (which under Premier League rules means there has been an increase in commercial income - or at £77m are close to what we paid for the whole of last season) on revenues of £135m (again close to our whole season last year) but a 6% fall on last year


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... laid-bare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... eague.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They still expect to turn over a record £615 - £630m for the year

[Royboyclaret]

A projected Wage bill of £308m is a staggering figure, even for United.

But my suspicions are that City, for the very first time in the PL, will run them very close.

[Chester Perry]

It is still a long way behind Barca which is north of £450m (Messi makes a 100m Euros) and roughly 50% of turnover difficult to argue with other than lack of long term plan, style of play and league position

[Chester Perry]

More on that story from yesterday about FIFA investigations into Premier League clubs and illegal transfers of young players - we know Chelsea are one of the five - but this appears a clear breach of the rules

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... sen-father" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;