Finishing

[Blackrod]

Do we spend much time doing shooting practice ? Many teams are guilty of wasting golden chances but it is frustrating seeing well worked moves finished with a lousy shot. It is equally frustrating to see Marney esque shots from distance that are 99.9% in unlikely to go in. Who does this coaching and do we need a striker coach in to focus on this ?

[MACCA]

Yes we practice
Possibly need a finishing coach, but I wouldn't say we create a lot of golden chances to score either.

V Palace we were gifted a chance and then created nothing. Palace could and may be should have scored 2 or 3 but for a open goal miss, a 1 v 1 save and a few off the line scrambles.

V Leeds possibly Arfield had a golden chance, but other than that it was scraps again , but I put that more down to personnel and tactics

V West Brom we had 1 shot I think on target.

Our style of play means we rarely create a tap in, and rely on 2nd phases and set plays to create our chances, usually they aren't the golden chances, that are created with slick quick passing opening teams up. ( not a dig, just the way it is )
Give me 13 scruffy odd goal wins a season, every time over trying to walk it in and go down.

[Tall Paul]

Our finishing is actually very good, probably among the best in the league if you look at the stats for goals scored compared to number of shots taken.

[Mala591]

Our finishing is actually very good, probably among the best in the league if you look at the stats for goals scored compared to number of shots taken.

Paul. What are our stats for 'shots on target per match' and how do our stats compare with other PL teams?

[Tall Paul]

Paul. What are our stats for 'shots on target per match' and how do our stats compare with other PL teams?

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/T ... -2017-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheBeehole]

Paul. What are our stats for 'shots on target per match' and how do our stats compare with other PL teams?

For shots per game, we are 15th in the league, at 10.4.

For shots on target per game, we are also 15th, at 2.8.

[Leisure]

Could be an interesting ariel battle tomorrow as Huddersfield are 1st and we are 2nd for Ariels Won.

[MACCA]

By interesting you mean boring

Not one for the purist, and puts to bed the myth that Huddersfield play a pretty, triangle football style.

Neck brace and pain killers at the ready...

[Sidney1st]

For shots per game, we are 15th in the league, at 10.4.

For shots on target per game, we are also 15th, at 2.8.

We must be doing well on the goals scored vs shots on target.

[UpTheBeehole]

We must be doing well on the goals scored vs shots on target.

6 goals from 14 shots on target, with 30 shots off target. 8 shots blocked..

52 goalscoring attempts, and we've scored 6, so 11% of our attempts result in a goal.

Need to create more goalscoring opportunities, and also work on finishing, as the OP states.

[Sidney1st]

6 goals from 14 shots on target,

Just under half then, that will do nicely.

Cheers for confirming we've done well with shots on target.

[UpTheBeehole]

What's the point in a shot if it's not on target?

[Sidney1st]

I asked about goals scored vs shots on target, which you answered for me, Ta.

[Blackrod]

We don't create a multitude of chances so we do need to be clinical with the ones we do create. Dyche has always said he wants the strikers in the right positions but doesn't go overboard when we miss chances. If we play one up top I think Wood will convert more than Vokes. Other outfield players need to make the right decisions and have the confidence to shoot whilst not taking unrealistic shots on e.g. Bardsley midweek

[piston broke]

one of the problems is the size and standard of modern PL goalies.
Where you could place a shot at say 80% 20 years ago you can't now.
Hence everything is hit full force leading to the lack of accuracy.
What annoys me is seeing most other clubs that use widemen on the wrong side and they can all place one in the opposite top corner. we just don't seem to have this ability. That can definitely be worked on.

[MDWat]

There are some people with a seriously big opinion of themselves on here, ******* hell.

[Tall Paul]

6 goals from 14 shots on target, with 30 shots off target. 8 shots blocked..

52 goalscoring attempts, and we've scored 6, so 11% of our attempts result in a goal.

Need to create more goalscoring opportunities, and also work on finishing, as the OP states.

Just crunched some numbers and our conversion rate of 11.5% is fifth in the league, behind Man Utd, Man City, Leicester and Watford. The average is 9%.

Five games is a very small sample, so I looked at the last couple of seasons as well and the average across the PL is around 10.5%. Our rate last year was a shade under 10%.

So our finishing is fine, but yes, we need to work on creating more chances.

[UpTheBeehole]

I asked about goals scored vs shots on target, which you answered for me, Ta.

What if 30 games into the season we'd had one shot on target and scored one goal. Would you be happy with that 100% success rate, despite there being 5,463 shots off target?

Would you not think that maybe, just maybe, the finishing needed work, and you were too blinded by your sole focus on the 100% goals-from-shots-on-target record?

[Tall Paul]

26% of our shots have been on target this season, with a league average of 31%. Last season we hit the target with 31% of our shots - league average 34%.

Edited with correct figures

[UpTheBeehole]

48% of our shots have been on target this season, with a league average of 31%. Last season we hit the target with 26% of our shots - league average 34%.

How do you arrive at the 48% figure?

52 attempts, 14 on target.

That's not 48%

That's below the league average.

[Tall Paul]

How do you arrive at the 48% figure?

52 attempts, 14 on target.

That's not 48%

That's below the league average.

My mistake, sorting error on my spreadsheet. I thought some of the figures looked odd (Bournemouth were showing 72% of their shots on target). Redone it and we're at 27%. Probably need to redo last season as well.

Going to edit my post so I don't look as stupid

[Sidney1st]

What if 30 games into the season we'd had one shot on target and scored one goal. Would you be happy with that 100% success rate, despite there being 5,463 shots off target?

Would you not think that maybe, just maybe, the finishing needed work, and you were too blinded by your sole focus on the 100% goals-from-shots-on-target record?

I'm not blinded by anything 5 games in.

You're the one beating yourself into a frenzy about something else you can bitch about.

We can revisit this thread on game 30 though if it will make you feel better?

[UpTheBeehole]

I'm not beating myself into a frenzy over it, I just said we can improve. Read my posts, read the actual words in them.

You see it's me posting and immediately get your back up. Just read the actual words, and you'll see I'm in line with the general consensus.

[Sidney1st]

My back isn't up.

I asked for one stat and you started rambling on with the other stats.

I'll worry about the other stuff on game 30.

[UpTheBeehole]

I provided comprehensive stats to give the whole picture. Stats are useless without context, so I was providing that context.

You go in with your blinkers on and get fixated with one thing, and ignore everything else.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Chriiiiiist in a ******* box. One more thread ruined by squabbling. Well done children.

[UpTheBeehole]

Chriiiiiist in a ******* box. One more thread ruined by squabbling. Well done children.

And you'll find I was providing statistics, after someone asked for them.

Then the manchild turned up

[Tall Paul]

I provided comprehensive stats to give the whole picture. Stats are useless without context, so I was providing that context.

There wasn't much context provided though. It's no good telling us what percentage of our shots are on target or result in goals without anything to compare them to.

Our shooting has actually been very efficient, certainly in the last couple of seasons. We just need to work on doing it more often.

[UpTheBeehole]

There wasn't much context provided though. It's no good telling us what percentage of our shots are on target or result in goals without anything to compare them to.

Our shooting has actually been very efficient, certainly in the last couple of seasons. We just need to work on doing it more often.

I'd previously provided the stat, on request, that we were 15th in the league for getting shots off.

I could have gone on to show that Man Utd' conversion rate is miles better than ours, but there's no point is there. We all see what happens on the pitch, and the general consensus is that we need to find that cutting edge.
Dyche even said so in his post-Leeds interview.

[No Ney Never]

If each chance was measured by the ease of the scoring opportunity, then maybe we would be better able to compare our conversion rate against that of other teams.

A header just wide of the post from a cross can't be judged the same as a one on one with the goalie or a tap in missed from inside the six yard box.

[UpTheBeehole]

If each chance was measured by the ease of the scoring opportunity, then maybe we would be better able to compare our conversion rate against that of other teams.

A header just wide of the post from a cross can't be judged the same as a one on one with the goalie or a tap in missed from inside the six yard box.

That's a stat called xG.

We're 17th in the league for that, however we've scored more than that measure expects.

That suggests we're getting goals out of the blue (see Wood v Palace, Ward scoring a worldy from an angle) rather than fashioning 'proper' chances.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

[Sidney1st]

Chriiiiiist in a ******* box. One more thread ruined by squabbling. Well done children.

I only asked for one stat.

I'm off to play somewhere else now before the squabbling really starts

[Tall Paul]

I'd previously provided the stat, on request, that we were 15th in the league for getting shots off.

I could have gone on to show that Man Utd' conversion rate is miles better than ours, but there's no point is there. We all see what happens on the pitch, and the general consensus is that we need to find that cutting edge.
Dyche even said so in his post-Leeds interview.

There's also no point in saying we're 15th in the league for numbers of shots taken when we're talking about the quality of our finishing, because it doesn't tell us anything in that respect.

To go with your reductio ad absurdum from earlier, if after 30 games we'd scored that one goal from our only shot on target and had no other shots at all then there would be no problem with finishing, the problem would be creating shooting opportunities.

If each chance was measured by the ease of the scoring opportunity, then maybe we would be better able to compare our conversion rate against that of other teams.

A header just wide of the post from a cross can't be judged the same as a one on one with the goalie or a tap in missed from inside the six yard box.

I was going to mention xG here, but UptheBeehole seems to have beaten me to it.

I like xG, but it's far from perfect and I think the fact that we're outperforming it indicates that our finishing has been good, not poor.

[UpTheBeehole]

There's also no point in saying we're 15th in the league for numbers of shots taken when we're talking about the quality of our finishing, because it doesn't tell us anything in that respect.

To go with your reductio ad absurdum from earlier, if after 30 games we'd scored that one goal from our only shot on target and had no other shots at all then there would be no problem with finishing, the problem would be creating shooting opportunities.



I was going to mention xG here, but UptheBeehole seems to have beaten me to it.

I like xG, but it's far from perfect and I think the fact that we're outperforming it indicates that our finishing has been good, not poor.

There'd be a MASSIVE problem with our finishing if we'd have thousands of shots on goal and only one on target. We'd have been creating those shooting opportunities, and it would be the FINISHING letting us down. That's why I was arguing with Sidney's one-eyed obsession with our scoring rate for shots on target. Get more shots on target, is the answer.

And as I said in my previous post, the xG discrepancy is down to us scoring goals from non xG positions, ie 45 yards out from a sh*t backpass or a volleyed worldy from the corner of the box. What we're struggling to create is the xG sitter, a ball across the 6 yard box for someone to tap home, and that's what will skew those stats.

[Tall Paul]

There'd be a MASSIVE problem with our finishing if we'd have thousands of shots on goal and only one on target. We'd have been creating those shooting opportunities, and it would be the FINISHING letting us down.

That's not what I said. I tweaked your example to say that we'd had only had one shot and it resulted in a goal. In that scenario our finishing would be perfect.

And as I said in my previous post, the xG discrepancy is down to us scoring goals from non xG positions, ie 45 yards out from a sh*t backpass or a volleyed worldy from the corner of the box. What we're struggling to create is the xG sitter, a ball across the 6 yard box for someone to tap home, and that's what will skew those stats.

xG has lots of flaws and you've touched on one here. It assigned just 0.2 xG to the Wood goal against Palace. I'm confident that a decent striker scores in that situation more than 20% of the time.

Pretty much every team struggles to create those "xG sitter"s. What we're good at is not giving teams chances like the one Palace gifted to us. I think we're also good at finishing those chances when they're presented to us.

[Claretto]

I haven't finished since 1991

[Colburn_Claret]

Finishing is all about confidence and pressure.
Practicing is too simplistic, because practice doesn't recreate the pressure of game play.
I think we are guilty of over thinking opportunities sometimes, relax and imagine you're at Gawthorpe and they'd hit the net more often.
Arfields goal at Arfield is a perfect example of taking a chance with a bit of composure.

[banjo79]

Do we spend much time doing shooting practice ? Many teams are guilty of wasting golden chances but it is frustrating seeing well worked moves finished with a lousy shot. It is equally frustrating to see Marney esque shots from distance that are 99.9% in unlikely to go in. Who does this coaching and do we need a striker coach in to focus on this ?

the questions people ask on here. smh.

[Sidney1st]

How do we think our finishing is now?

14 goals scored, 7th in the table...