4-4-2 or 4-5-1?

leelad · Post by **leelad** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:40 am

What do you think will be our formation today?
Thought we were less fluent with 4-4-2 vs. Palace versus a 4-5-1 formation. Don't think we can allow Huddersfield the freedom to play football in the centre of the park, they have good midfielders in there (Mooy). Hoping for a 4-5-1 with Wood up top and Cork, Hendrick & Defour as the hub in midfield with Brady and Arfield on the wings.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:42 am

I don't think you'll be too disappointed this afternoon in how the team lines up

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:44 am

I'd want the 451 but with JBG on the wing and Arfield behind the striker, Hendrick off the bench whilst he's on his way back from injury.

Duffer_ · Post by **Duffer_** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:51 am

ClaretTony wrote:I don't think you'll be too disappointed this afternoon in how the team lines up

Psst..here, Tone, have you been speaking with my very good friend? Ey, nudge nudge...

UTC!

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:53 am

...or 3-5-2? Best of both worlds.

............................Pope.............................

..........Tarks............Mee...............Taylor......

Lowton....Hendrick...Defour...Cork.......Ward...

........................Wood........Brady.....................

Bingo.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:00 am

I'm 26 and Hendrick Defour and Cork are the best central midfielders I've seen at the club. To have all three at the same time is wonderful.

We need to get them all playing in the same eleven, it will allow us to dominated midfield and give the full backs licence to roam.

Has to be Wood up tip in his form.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:30 am

Hence 3-5-2.

Brady makes mistakes, that's the nature of him but he has to be on the pitch, stick him up top, let him make his mistakes up there in between his little bits of magic.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:35 am

leelad wrote:What do you think will be our formation today?
Thought we were less fluent with 4-4-2 vs. Palace versus a 4-5-1 formation. Don't think we can allow Huddersfield the freedom to play football in the centre of the park, they have good midfielders in there (Mooy). Hoping for a 4-5-1 with Wood up top and Cork, Hendrick & Defour as the hub in midfield with Brady and Arfield on the wings.

No objection to that team, but being wide in a 451 doesn't get the best out of Arfield - his greatest attacking strength in a burnley shirt has been his ability to find pockets of space between the lines, but the third central midfielder sort of congests that space anyway and his lack of a yard of pace means he's less able to get into those positions from wide at this level in any event. Thats why the role he played at Liverpool and Spurs (mostly) suits him so well.

Personally I'd start him in that same attacking central midfield role today. I think it suits him better than Hendrick, who doesn't naturally make the sort of run Arfield made to score last week and isnt aa comfortable receiving the ball with his back to goal. Hendrick (although perfectly competent pushed further forward) is better used from a deeper position where he can drive forwards from deep and impose himself on the midfield battle physically.

There's an argument therefore that Hendrick and Defour should compete for one spot today and if Defour starts, it will be an interesting test for him. Huddersfield are known for their aggressive pressing and quick transitions, stuff Defour struggled with occasionally last season. This is probably a game he'd have been left out for 6 months ago as a result - so if he does start it will be a marker of how much better adapted he is.

But whilst it will probably be a minority view, i reckon there's a really strong argument for playing Hendrick instead of Defour, giving us a really strong aggressive and athletic central core (which can still play) and giving us more scope to go over the top of Huddersfield's press early (what West Ham did successfully 2 weeks ago) with Hendrick and Arfield better suited to getting up alongside the interchangeable Wood and Vokes early.

1914tyrone · Post by **1914tyrone** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:38 am

I'm with OP, Hendrick Defour & Cork have to be the midfield three. It works well and we play much better!
3-1 UTC

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:42 am

Not arsed what formation we play ...as long as we win,this is a must win to put our pretenders in their place,and their from Yorkshire.

jneary26 · Post by **jneary26** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:49 am

4-5-1 easily. Allows Defour more flexibility and we can't counter attack teams anyway so might as well build the attack through the midfield and work as a team moving forward.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:59 am

4411 with Brady behind Wood, JBG wide left, Hendrick a narrow right side midfield and Lowton given more licence to attack.

Like the light bulb moment after Hull away, that Mee at left back was not working after years, Sean will one day decide to use Brady properly. In the meantime if he has to play on the wing, please play him on the right.

We need to stop Mooy - he is a super player.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:09 am

4-5-1 for me too. I doubt we'll consider 4-4-2 now until Wells returns and offers some competition to partner Wood up top; or we lose midfielders to injury, making it a forced move.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:10 am

4-5-1 for me with Wood up top. Start with Arfield in midfield. Hendrick did not look up to speed against Leeds

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:12 am

FactualFrank wrote:4-5-1 for me too. I doubt we'll consider 4-4-2 now until Wells returns and offers some competition to partner Wood up top; or we lose midfielders to injury, making it a forced move.

Think Wells could just as easily slot in out wide in the 451.

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:14 am

The way Huddersfield set up, I'd be inclined to go 4-5-1 with Westwood as they play on the counter. Inclined to agree with Spice in the aspect that Arfield is at his best in a floating role just behind the lone striker. He has that happy knack of finding space, as at Liverpool.
It does leave a conundrum on the remaining three. Cork I'd think is nailed on. So we're left with a choice of Brady, Hendrick, JBG and Defour. Hendrick looked off the pace against Leeds, but then he is just back from injury.
I'd go Westwood, Cork, Defour, Brady and Arfield personally.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:04 am

Hendrick was clearly off the pace against Leeds, needs to be eased back in.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:29 am

I’m hoping for the same line up as at Liverpool.

Hendrick to come off the bench.

High press, balls into Wood, Defour orchestrating.

billyhamilton82 · Post by **billyhamilton82** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I don't think you'll be too disappointed this afternoon in how the team lines up

Oh dear

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:46 pm

"But whilst it will probably be a minority view, i reckon there's a really strong argument for playing Hendrick instead of Defour, giving us a really strong aggressive and athletic central core (which can still play) and giving us more scope to go over the top of Huddersfield's press early (what West Ham did successfully 2 weeks ago) with Hendrick and Arfield better suited to getting up alongside the interchangeable Wood and Vokes early."

A minority of one I would imagine. I find it quite incredible that anyone would want to see Defour dropped with the way he's been playing and the great partnership he's forming with Cork. He is clearly our most gifted player, playing well and much fitter than last season.

I'm sorry claretspice but if you were the manager and picking the team I would have to give away my season ticket and stop going on the turf.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:20 pm

3putt wrote:I'm sorry claretspice but if you were the manager.

Can you imagine his half-time team talk, they'd have to hold him down and muffle him with a pillow.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:45 pm

that was funny, diesel

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:01 pm

Mattster wrote:I'd want the 451 but with JBG on the wing and Arfield behind the striker, Hendrick off the bench whilst he's on his way back from injury.

You were bob on
I said the same when I saw the line up
Hendrick wasn't fit enough
Arfield still tucked in
Played 451 but lumped the ball as if we were 442
Wood completely isolated

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:08 pm

3putt wrote:"But whilst it will probably be a minority view, i reckon there's a really strong argument for playing Hendrick instead of Defour, giving us a really strong aggressive and athletic central core (which can still play) and giving us more scope to go over the top of Huddersfield's press early (what West Ham did successfully 2 weeks ago) with Hendrick and Arfield better suited to getting up alongside the interchangeable Wood and Vokes early."

A minority of one I would imagine. I find it quite incredible that anyone would want to see Defour dropped with the way he's been playing and the great partnership he's forming with Cork. He is clearly our most gifted player, playing well and much fitter than last season.

I'm sorry claretspice but if you were the manager and picking the team I would have to give away my season ticket and stop going on the turf.

Fortunately, for you, I'm not the manager.

Anyway, Defour was outstanding today, head and shoulders the best player on the pitch, so he certainly demonstrated he's better equipped to handle an aggressive team like Huddersfield than he was last year - hands up, that was a wrong call.

I reckon the logic of the rest of my post this morning was borne out by the game though. Hendrick's best moment in the game came when he dropped into an orthodox central midfield position, swapped a couple of passes and drove 60 yards with the ball. He's not especially comfortable playing off the striker and trying to get the bits and pieces. Arfield appeared to end up playing off Wood regardless, and whilst he found pockets of space more easily than Hendrick, too often our play became too tight and congested and we'd have been much better off with JBG playing on the right side, giving us width and someone in wide areas with the ability to get beyond a man.

In the absence of pace out wide, our version of 4-5-1/4-3-3 is really more of a 4-4-1-1. Arfield's better suited to being the second '1' than Hendrick, and we need the width and crossing option in that set up than JBG offers.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:09 pm

Okay well I might consider keeping my ST if you become the manager.

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