What is our best team and formation?

[Iloveyoubrady]

Excluding injuries

My guess 4-5-1 with the ability to go 4-4-3 with wells coming on.

Heaton
Lowton tarks mee ward
Defour Hendrick cork
Gundmundson Brady
Wood

[Newcastleclaret93]

Heaton
Lowton tarks mee ward
Defour Hendrick cork
Wells. Brady
Wood

[taio]

It depends which team and where we are playing. We need to be flexible - sometimes 4-4-2 and sometimes 4-5-1 depending on the circumstances.

[Blackrod]

..even though we haven't seen Wells play yet. He must be good.

[FactualFrank]

It depends which team and where we are playing.

Nailed it. There is no cemented formation or team. Like I often say, different opposition should mean different formation, tactics and personnel. It won't be significant changes, but it's still a change.

[Pstotto]

Heaton
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
Hendrick Marney Westwood Brady
Barnes Vokes

On the other hand, what do I know about it? In Dyche we trust apart from not playing Vokes yesterday.

[BleedingClaret]

At present
Home 442
Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
JBG Cork Defour Brady
Vokes Wood
Away 451
Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
Westwood
JBG. Cork. Brady
Defour
Wood

[Woodleyclaret]

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Ward
Gudmunson Defour Cork Brady
Vokes Wood
Subs Barnes Wells Taylor Arfield Long and gk

[claretspice]

Hard to know whilst we haven't seen anything of Wells, but the less he plays the better he becomes.

Hendrick, Defour and Cork are our best 3 central midfielders and in the right set up could be an absolutely fantastic trio. But the key with getting the best of them is to make them a genuine central midfield 3, and not a two with one pushed up into a sort of semi-striker position ahead which none of them really suit. But for that to work you need either some pace on at least one flank to make sure it is the winger, not a pushed-up midfielder, who is the main support for the central striker (if they're quick enough, they can also get back into the defensive shape, but as a back up, one of the central 3 (presumably Hendrick) would be deployed to support the full back if needs be). If Wells can be that man, that will be problem solved - something like:

-------------Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
--------Defour Cork
Hendrick
Wells---------------Brady
--------Wood/Vokes

Or something. In the meantime, or if Wells can't play that role, there's an argument that against teams like Huddersfield yesterday we need to take that sort of tweak to the framework in any event and let whoever plays on the right flank to play wide and high on the last shoulder. Against other teams, perhaps we're better off pushing Arfield in behind Wood or Vokes and asking Hendrick to play wide right, which isn't really his role but for my money would suit him better than where he played yesterday.

The frustrating thing is we're probably one gun winger away from having as good a team as any of us can realistically expect to see. But at the moment we are where we are. We've got a decent squad and as others have said, perhaps the answer is that we should be shuffling our personnel to try and set slightly different problems for different opponents.

[claretandy]

Hard to know whilst we haven't seen anything of Wells, but the less he plays the better he becomes.

Hendrick, Defour and Cork are our best 3 central midfielders and in the right set up could be an absolutely fantastic trio. But the key with getting the best of them is to make them a genuine central midfield 3, and not a two with one pushed up into a sort of semi-striker position ahead which none of them really suit. But for that to work you need either some pace on at least one flank to make sure it is the winger, not a pushed-up midfielder, who is the main support for the central striker (if they're quick enough, they can also get back into the defensive shape, but as a back up, one of the central 3 (presumably Hendrick) would be deployed to support the full back if needs be). If Wells can be that man, that will be problem solved - something like:

-------------Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
--------Defour Cork
Hendrick
Wells---------------Brady
--------Wood/Vokes

Or something. In the meantime, or if Wells can't play that role, there's an argument that against teams like Huddersfield yesterday we need to take that sort of tweak to the framework in any event and let whoever plays on the right flank to play wide and high on the last shoulder. Against other teams, perhaps we're better off pushing Arfield in behind Wood or Vokes and asking Hendrick to play wide right, which isn't really his role but for my money would suit him better than where he played yesterday.

The frustrating thing is we're probably one gun winger away from having as good a team as any of us can realistically expect to see. But at the moment we are where we are. We've got a decent squad and as others have said, perhaps the answer is that we should be shuffling our personnel to try and set slightly different problems for different opponents.

Failure to bring in said winger was a big failure in recruitment.

[FactualFrank]

Failure to bring in said winger was a big failure in recruitment.

I've heard we went for wingers, but couldn't land them. Therefore the quality we could have settled for would have been crap.

So I guess the question is, what would the fans want - a winger who is crap, or no winger.

[Diesel]

For me, with what we have...now, with everyone fit, I'd go:

..............................Heaton.................................

Lowton.........Tarks..............Mee..............Ward....

Brady*.......Hendrick...Defour....Cork.....JBG......

...........................Vokes......................................

*I don't like wide players playing on their 'weaker' flank but Brady does it well. Would love to see JBG given the licence to attack out on the left, he has a cracking left peg on him, let's use him/it.

[claretspice]

For me, with what we have...now, with everyone fit, I'd go:

..............................Heaton.................................

Lowton.........Tarks..............Mee..............Ward....

Brady*.......Hendrick...Defour....Cork.....JBG......

...........................Vokes......................................

*I don't like wide players playing on their 'weaker' flank but Brady does it well. Would love to see JBG given the licence to attack out on the left, he has a cracking left peg on him, let's use him/it.

I think Brady is on record as saying he prefers the left wing and JBG is definitely on record saying he prefers the right wing despite that meaning he cuts inside lots.

One variation we do have is to play 4-3-3 with Barnes on the left hand side, where he has played a bit for us. If we did that ww might play Brady on the right. Otherwise, i'd leave him on the left.

[Diesel]

I think Brady is on record as saying he prefers the left wing and JBG is definitely on record saying he prefers the right wing despite that meaning he cuts inside lots.

Like when Ben Mee went on record as saying he definitely now considers himself a left back? That sort of thing?

Means Jack sh1t spice.

[FactualFrank]

One variation we do have is to play 4-3-3 with Barnes on the left hand side

4-3-3? What have you been drinking?

[Iloveyoubrady]

Failure to bring in said winger was a big failure in recruitment.

We did try and will probably go in again in January. I feel we are ok for now with Brady, Gudmundson and arfield to fill in in the case of injuries. Don't forget that Walters, Barnes and wells have all played out wide in the past in case of emergency, especially Wells who played often out wide last year.

[FactualFrank]

We did try and will probably go in again in January. I feel we are ok for now with Brady, Gudmundson and arfield to fill in in the case of injuries. Don't forget that Walters, Barnes and wells have all played out wide in the past in case of emergency, especially Wells who played often out wide last year.

Like I say. I've heard (from a pretty reliable source) that we did everything we could to bring in a winger. We couldn't get them, so we had two options: bringing somebody in who wasn't good enough, or not sign a winger. I think we made the right choice.
Had we brought in someone not good enough, we'd still have the winger whingers.

[Iloveyoubrady]

One variation we do have is to play 4-3-3 with Barnes on the left hand side, where he has played a bit for us. If we did that ww might play Brady on the right. Otherwise, i'd leave him on the left.

443 could be effective if wells/Walters played right as well as Barnes being able to play left. Brady seems to be able to play either but I like him being able to swing balls in to our big strikers

[FactualFrank]

443 could be effective if wells/Walters played right as well as Barnes being able to play left. Brady seems to be able to play either but I like him being able to swing balls in to our big strikers

I think that's bizarre. We don't have the pace for 4-3-3 for a kick off. And 4-3-3 is more attacking than 4-4-2 which people keep complaining about. If you can't do 4-4-2, the last thing you want to do is push even more men forward in a 4-3-3.

4-5-1 which turns into a 4-3-3 when we're attacking? That makes more sense.

[Iloveyoubrady]

I think that's bizarre. We don't have the pace for 4-3-3 for a kick off. And 4-3-3 is more attacking than 4-4-2 which people keep complaining about. If you can't do 4-4-2, the last thing you want to do is push even more men forward in a 4-3-3.

4-5-1 which turns into a 4-3-3 when we're attacking? That makes sense, which is what we're best at.

Yes, I prefer 4-5-1 to 4-3-3 but wells and Brady are both fairly sharp in terms of pace so it could be a useful variation for us if we were chasing a game. For defence, it may be slightly weaker but keep in mind that you would have 3 central midfielders rather than 2 with one pushing higher.

[claretspice]

I think that's bizarre. We don't have the pace for 4-3-3 for a kick off. And 4-3-3 is more attacking than 4-4-2 which people keep complaining about. If you can't do 4-4-2, the last thing you want to do is push even more men forward in a 4-3-3.

4-5-1 which turns into a 4-3-3 when we're attacking? That makes more sense.

I think that's what everyone means. I agree that that set up works best if you've got at least one winger with real pace to make that formation "change" in attack a reality.

But these formations we talk about are really short hand for very subtle shifts in where people stand on the pitch. I think what we're looking at is a simple tweak to our existing system so that the most advanced midfielder drops back a bit further and is asked to fill in on the right flank a bit in defence, to cover when required a right sided midfielder/winger who is encouraged to play higher, start wider, and make runs in to support the striker - we can do that now with Hendrick playing a bit deeper and JBG playing in that high wide role. Although the personnel and style are different, its broadly the same thinking Coyle adopted when he had McCann as his left sided central midfielder and Blake as his left winger with freedom to roam (and our current personnel are much better suited to making it work at this level).

[FactualFrank]

I think that's what everyone means.

I'm pretty sure it isn't. Not sure it's everyone either, as half have said 4-5-1 or 4-4-2.
The thread is asking about our best team and formation - which is surely how we start and lineup. Nothing suggests it's a 'how would you line up when we're attacking'.

[Mala591]

4-2-3-1

.....................Heaton
Lowton....Tarks....Mee....Ward
.............Hendrick...Cork
JBG.............Defour..........Brady
.............Vokes/Wood

Would be reluctant to split up the excellent Defour - Cork partnership but I feel Hendrick is best as a holding midfield player. We definitely missed JBG against Huddersfield.

We have a strong and talented squad and relatively small 'tweaks' to the formation and selection might be all that is required to make us a more offensive threat.

[HiroshimaClaret]

4-5-1 away seems to be absolutely fine away but at home it works not a jot (seemingly). Any variation on 4-3-3, (3-5-2 never!) 4-3-2-1 (a la Bayern Munchen) is worth a punt especially against the lesser lights.

[HiroshimaClaret]

How`s about (AT HOME)

Pope
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Ward
Gudmundsson OR Hendrick Cork Defour
Wells (when fit) Wood OR Vokes Brady

Are we missing a trick NOT getting Taylor involved? Seems to have won universal praise so far.

[Roosterbooster]

Heaton
Lowton Tarks Mee Ward
Hendrick Marney Westwood Brady
Barnes Vokes

On the other hand, what do I know about it? In Dyche we trust apart from not playing Vokes yesterday.

How do you explain Defour's omission?
If you think 442 is the answer, then did Saturday's performance not prove Defour can play in a 2. Hendrick basically didn't show up, so effectively Defour shone in a 2

Hang on. You haven't put Cork in either??

This is a joke right?

[Royboyclaret]

Best formation eh?

Many moons ago, shortly after football was invented, some bright spark decided that two full-backs, three half- backs and five forwards in a 2-3-5 formation was the way to go. For the best part of a century teams provided lots of goals and crowds were royally entertained with no-one falling asleep (as I did on the match on Saturday).

One fine day a manager somewhere will have the audacity to employ such a system again, it will be a roaring success with all teams following suit and everyone will wonder why we changed things in the first place.

Steven Defour could even play the Jimmy Mc role and create 25 goals a season!

[Tall Paul]

I'm positive that Sean Dyche won't be that manager Royboy.

[Down_Rover]

There is absolutely no chance of us playing 4-3-3. We do not have enough quality to do so. We defend with 6 across the back and this wont change until we have trillions to spend.

4-5-1 makes us one of the hardest teams to beat in the PL and, in my view, Vokes should always start in this formation. Wood does not have the ability to bring others into play and should, for the time being, come on later as the game gets stretched.

I can see us switching to 4-4-2 as the second half wears on with Wood and Wells as the preferred front two, either as an attacking ploy to win or to gain more ground to defend a lead.

4-3-3 is like going back to the Judas days of playing flowing football and conceding goals for fun

[Pstotto]

Yes. Kind of... I do point out that I haven't really a clue anymore. When you're a season ticket holder one really really knows the squad and all about the football, but those days are well over for me as I don't now live locally, but I think Marney has something yet to offer. Cork almost cost us the match on Saturday and hasn't the pace to recover his mistakes. Defour is a canny footballer, I just haven't seen enough of him.