what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

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Wile E Coyote
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what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Wile E Coyote » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:25 am

Not complaining, just pondering the huge improvement.
Beating chelsea away was staggeringly great result, the draw at spurs, the draw at Liverpool, beating everton in such style,
Funny too because the recent home games against palace and huddersfield were turgid affairs, very unimpressive looking burnley preformances.
Overall though the strength in the team is a joy to watch, some really special individual performances as well so far.
Ironic that having lost keane and with tom out injured we still seem to defy the odds and produce football of true quality.
Defour is breathtakingly good at times, obviously Tarks has been a revalation at the back. Difficult to isolate the reasons for the displays being so strong. What an incredible league position to be in as October gets under way. Hope we can sustain this as the weeks and months go by.
Perfect times to be a claret without a doubt, Dyche and co have indeed worked a miracle.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:28 am

I think Dyche answered that after Everton - its to do with experience of the Premier League and knowing what it is like to go away to these places and not be in awe of the surroundings. Our players have played at Stamford bridge etc before this season, they can now concentrate on our game and they have the belief that they can get something from any game now.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 am

1) Chelsea was a team in Disarray at the time we played them

2) Spurs are struggling at Wembley

3) Liverpool was a team under pressure

4) Everton are a team of misfits at the moment

A great time to play them all and give us confidence to go forward..West Ham will be a big test at home ..

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Top Claret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:44 am

Agree with Rick, it's all about belief. Last season we went away at Sunderland, Boro and Hull, but didn't have the belief and confidence to push on and grab the 3 points.

This season we have the experience and now the belief that we can go anywhere and get points

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:00 am

A culmination of many things, including we played them all at a good time.
The players all have that little more experience and therefore confidence.
Tarks had been around the club for a long time so he fit into Keanos role seamlessly.
Everyone including Defour having a pre season to get Dyche fit.
The biggest difference though is Jack Cork, brings so much experience and nous to the team, but also complements Defour and helps get the very best out of him.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by claretblue » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:06 am

we've always been good! :)

UTC
Last edited by claretblue on Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Steve1956 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:18 am

Jack Cork...has been immense,and complements Steven Defour,nothing more to add really, just thanks Clement for weakening your team and making ours stronger.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:30 am

Fine margins and a bit of luck.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by piston broke » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:40 am

4-5-1 suits us far more than 4-4-2.
Tarks slotting in seamlessly has been a plus.
Defour finding form and Jack Cork have given us a solidity we didn't have away from home.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:48 am

We've definitely worked out a better system for playing away. Ironically however, things haven't been quite so "sweet" at home so far and it remains to be seen if we can get some fluidity into our home performances. Teams seem to have worked out a better way to counteract us at home by letting us have much more of the ball and sitting deep and our 5 in midfield allows that too, but when it comes to the final third and the killer pass we look a bit short of ideas. One for SD to ponder and West Ham will be areal tough one!

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by IAmAClaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:06 am

Some excellent additions have made a massive difference - Cork stands out. We can keep the ball much better with the 4-5-1.
Everyone has had a 'Dyche-fit' pre-season, which is showing with Defour and Brady especially.
Tarkowski has been nurtured well, and has filled the gap left by Keane.
We aren't playing long balls to Gray, who would more than likely be offside, giving the opposition the ball back.

All mixed in with a bit of luck.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:23 am

I don't think it is sudden - we've been building steadily for some time now and just happen to be in the middle of a good run of results, particularly away from home.

On the away form, I know it took an age to get a win last season but we've only lost one away game by more than one goal since the 2-0 defeat at Stoke last November, and that was an undeserved 3-1 loss at Everton.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by dsr » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:31 am

conyoviejo wrote:1) Chelsea was a team in Disarray at the time we played them

2) Spurs are struggling at Wembley

3) Liverpool was a team under pressure

4) Everton are a team of misfits at the moment

A great time to play them all and give us confidence to go forward..West Ham will be a big test at home ..
That really is "glass half empty". Chelsea have lost only to Man City, apart from us, this season; Liverpool have lost only to Man City and have won all their other home games apart from Seville (draw); Spurs have lost only to Chelsea in a game they dominated. The three may not have been at their peak, but they weren't at a level that anyone would expect to visit and win either.

Even Everton have only lost to good sides - Chelsea, Spurs, Atalanta, Man United. And of course us.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Longside4evr » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:48 am

dsr wrote:That really is "glass half empty". Chelsea have lost only to Man City, apart from us, this season; Liverpool have lost only to Man City and have won all their other home games apart from Seville (draw); Spurs have lost only to Chelsea in a game they dominated. The three may not have been at their peak, but they weren't at a level that anyone would expect to visit and win either.

Even Everton have only lost to good sides - Chelsea, Spurs, Atalanta, Man United. And of course us.
Two sides to every coin but their as to be a demeanor in us being better and its with the new additions in my mind
Cork fitting in with Defour and linking the play far better in the middle of the park
Tarks doing better than we all thought and doing a sterling job
And with Wood up top its made us less one dimensional and the quality we have in the 5 man midfield anyone is capable of a 5 a season weigh in.
We went to so many of these grounds and looked like rabbits in head lights today we look like the farmer with the gun UTC

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Dyched » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:02 pm

Before we'd kicked a ball away from home we knew we'd be on the back foot. That helps us a lot. Many times we look lost when teams sit back a little. Take West Brom away last season. Teams may look to let us have the ball more often. Having said that we look much more dangerous and calm with possession this term. Players actually look like they want it. We now have 2 players out wide who can make things happen. Cork and Defour are unnerved on the ball. But as the points add up and the teams at the bottom struggle and get caught adrift they'll see us as a team they need to get 3 points from. West Ham will come to the Turf expecting a win. Slavin needs a win for sure.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Moorite » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:04 pm

conyoviejo wrote:1) Chelsea was a team in Disarray at the time we played them

2) Spurs are struggling at Wembley

3) Liverpool was a team under pressure

4) Everton are a team of misfits at the moment

A great time to play them all and give us confidence to go forward..West Ham will be a big test at home ..
I honestly think West Ham at home will be harder than Everton away.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Cubanclaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:19 pm

I agree its not sudden at all - 5 years of steady improvement.
Despite our defeats on the road last season, our manager was right to say we were sometimes on the wrong end of very tight margins. And when we did lose: 'There has to be a future to our performances.'
We had great chances to draw at both Spurs and Liverpool last season when a bit of composure from Vokes (at Spurs) and Lowton (at Liverpool) in the last minute could have seen us draw. It was only really Chelsea of the big clubs that dealt us a hiding.
Cork and Defour have the potential to be the best midfield partnership for Burnley for the past 40 years - a clear improvement from last season with Brady having bedded in too.
Long may it continue.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Spijed » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:24 pm

conyoviejo wrote:1) Chelsea was a team in Disarray at the time we played them

2) Spurs are struggling at Wembley

3) Liverpool was a team under pressure

4) Everton are a team of misfits at the moment

A great time to play them all and give us confidence to go forward..West Ham will be a big test at home ..
Don't you think away from home we are going to get quite a few more points then?

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by claretspice » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:39 pm

I would challenge the pretext of the question. I don't think we are "so" good, or so much better than we were last season, and I don't think anyone should get carried away. We got 40 points last season and I doubt we'll be all that far ahead of that mark come the end of this season.

But - away from home in particular we've made a fantastic start. Of course the partnership of Defour and Cork gives us more quality than we've ever had at the base of our midfield, and I also completely agree that the impact of a full pre-season on Hendrick, Brady and Defour in particular has been really significant. Away from home, that ability to string a few passes together, even without penetrating early, has allowed us to relieve pressure and that's been a huge improvement on last season.

But fine margins and a bit of luck have undoubtedly played a part. That will turn at some point and there will be focus on our shortcomings - the truth as ever lies somewhere in between.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Blackrod » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:46 pm

Belief
Experience
Fine margins
Gradual increase in quality
Form
Fitness

West Ham will be a tough test though

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by wooooosh » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:48 pm

The back 5 including Pope are settled and always have been. To me the difference is playing 4-5-1 and getting Defour into the game. For some reason Defour hasn't worked in a 4-4-2. With Cork, Hendrick and Defour in the middle of midfield we look so much more balanced and therefore much harder to break down. It also allows Ward to bomb on and he looks suited to that. Add to that we have Brady who is capable of a piece of magic we could never really produce before. The good news is that (Brady apart) we have ready made replacements for ever position.
UTC

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by quoonbeatz » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:49 pm

yep, we're not 'so' good and its not sudden either.

i've said many times before on here, its a slow build - we've improved slowly but steadily, year on year- and that's the only way a club like us can have a medium to long-term future at this level.

evolution, not revolution. we're some way from being the finished article (unlikely we ever will be) but we're way ahead of where we started from.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by yorkyclaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Cork and Gawthorpe

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by MACCA » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Sidewards Jones , and headless chicken Boyd are 2 areas that have been massively upgraded.

Add getting a striker that can run and control a ball instead of fat Sam and Andre the cement man and I think you have your answer.

The cool, calm and precise passing of cork instead of whoosh to out of touch Marney is just a bonus.

Just need to get in a decent coach now for the long ball dinasour Dyche, and we could be onto something really special.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by NottsClaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:44 pm

We're only one win along from people questioning why we are so mediocre, after Huddersfield.

I'll still be happy if we finish 17th.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Rowls » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:08 pm

What has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

A) Sean Dyche became manager and the change hasn't been sudden it has been incremental. :)

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by tiger76 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:17 pm

MACCA wrote:Sidewards Jones , and headless chicken Boyd are 2 areas that have been massively upgraded.

Add getting a striker that can run and control a ball instead of fat Sam and Andre the cement man and I think you have your answer.

The cool, calm and precise passing of cork instead of whoosh to out of touch Marney is just a bonus.

Just need to get in a decent coach now for the long ball dinasour Dyche, and we could be onto something really special.
Yeah like the 24 long balls we played last week leading to the goal, :roll:
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by mdd2 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:55 pm

What Tall Paul said
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by edlass » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:26 pm

I like to think we are the perfect advert for stability at a club.

Same manager, same core of steadily improving players, same board, same ground and definitely some luck to begin with but once someone gave us the lemons, we made our own lemonade and turned it into a factory.

I know a club like Watford do it the other way and it seems to work for them and maybe stability doesn't matter at the top, but I am a big fan of stability and the way we do it. And I hope Sean Dyche is too. I hope the fact that this club works like clockwork and he is one of the main cogs, means that even a tempting opportunity to manage somewhere else might have him think twice. Because he would have to start all over again!

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by RocketLawnChair » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:49 pm

Simple for me really. Dyche became aware of UTC became a regular browser and then implemented all the advice dished out on here,, and we haven't looked back since.
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm

dsr wrote:That really is "glass half empty". Chelsea have lost only to Man City, apart from us, this season; Liverpool have lost only to Man City and have won all their other home games apart from Seville (draw); Spurs have lost only to Chelsea in a game they dominated. The three may not have been at their peak, but they weren't at a level that anyone would expect to visit and win either.

Even Everton have only lost to good sides - Chelsea, Spurs, Atalanta, Man United. And of course us.


Yes,it could be looked at as glass half empty..I suppose I could have worded it better and just said it was a good time to be playing them..To take eight points out of those fixtures is a great achievement..Hopefully we can continue the run in our next away match at big money spending Citeh.. 8-)

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by conyoviejo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:53 pm

Spijed wrote:Don't you think away from home we are going to get quite a few more points then?
Well Spijed,I would certainly like to think so after our performances so far.. 8-)

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by jlup1980 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:08 pm

Cork and Defour are the difference. Simple as that really. Swansea must be one hell of a team to let Cork leave to a pre season relegation rival. When I see names like Livermore, The Ox, Chalobah and Winks in the England squad I do wonder whether certain players just don't get looked at. Cork is playing fantastically well at the moment and deserves a call up in my opinion.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:10 pm

What happened was in God had been asleep since the summer of 1960 and when he arose in the winter of 2012 he immediately saw something was not right upon checking the PL table (yes he is a claret). So he set about creating a position at BFC so he could send his chosen one to sort things out and restore natural order. He sent Satan (the person who we believed was god) to Bolton Wigan and the turds and relegated them, installed Dyche as our manager, purposely made our progress gradual so we can have the opportunity of a few gloating victories in the face of our rivals and what you see now is our gradual rise to the top of the tree through his chosen ones miracle workings.

Enjoy a glass of claret and enjoy the ride.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:22 pm

Cork and Defour in a midfield 5 for me.
So far, so good.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by boiledclaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:47 pm

Tarks seems to have replaced Keane, likewise Pope with Heaton. Cork has been an absolute God send and a five allows Brady to take a risk or two. Robbie has put some real quality in, albeit inconsistantly but it's been an improvement on last season, certainly away.

Plus, we move the ball a lot quicker and with more purpose. Oh and we do play it long better than many, if push comes to shove and a miles better bench these days as well. Dyche seems very media savvy and is genuinely showing even more confidence and command.

These are enjoyable times to be a claret.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by BennyD » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:49 pm

I reckon the fact SD is under absolutely no pressure from the board has something to do with it. Any pressure SD is feeling is self generated and a reflection of the high standard he sets. Bringing in players that may be seen as journeymen, by some on here, but thrive because of the team spirit is a crucial factor. Players willing to put a shift in, put their bodies on the line and take one for the team is also crucial and is reflected in the astounding defensive stats we have so far this season. Put simply, it's a mindset that says 'we can give anyone a game and if they beat us, they will have worked f*cking hard to do so'. It's what good management is all about.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Sheedyclaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:56 pm

Think the workplace environment has been a massive factor much be fantastic going to train at the new facilities for the players ...

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by MACCA » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:19 pm

tiger76 wrote:Yeah like the 24 long balls we played last week leading to the goal, :roll:
Whoosh

:roll:

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by ontario claret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:53 pm

The subtraction of Boyd has helped our possession game tremendously. The only way we were able to score before was on the quick break.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by ablueclaret » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:33 pm

We remain a tight unit that only changes incrementally, we've adopted a version of 4-5-1 away from home and we've played the top sides at the best possible time.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Wile E Coyote » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:51 pm

ablueclaret wrote:We remain a tight unit that only changes incrementally, we've adopted a version of 4-5-1 away from home and we've played the top sides at the best possible time.
does that mean you think we'll be found out soon and the penny will drop with opponents ablue?
I kind of agree about playing dangerous opponents at the right time, they made not have built up a head of steam yet.
The pundits remark on our organisational abilities and defensive resolve, surely any coach worth his salt would be able to replicate our style if it were that easy.
I think some of our players have a point to prove, as long as sean dyche allows them to display that passion, we are in with a chance of finishing much higher than most expected.

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:38 am

ablueclaret wrote:We remain a tight unit that only changes incrementally, we've adopted a version of 4-5-1 away from home and we've played the top sides at the best possible time.
It's very little to do with playing them at the best time. Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool and Everton have between them played 17 games against the 13 teams that didn't qualify for Europe last year.

In the 13 games against teams that aren't Burnley, they've won 10 and drawn 3. Home record 4-1-0, away record 6-2-0.
In the 4 games against Burnley, they've drawn 2 and lost 2. All at home.

This is not a series of flukes. The 13 non-Europe teams, between them, have gained 11 points against these four teams. We have 8 of those 11 points. (Newcastle, Swansea, Watford have the other 3.) If our results are because we're playing them at the right time, then how come no-one else is playing them at the right time?

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by ElectroClaret » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:45 am

The signing of Jack Cork, the resurgence of Defour and the gelling together
of these two with Hendrick have given us the best midfield we've had for ages.

And yes, a magnificent off-field structure that's the envy of many clubs our size

UTC

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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by Sidney1st » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:45 am

Stability, not a massive number of changes to playing staff, Dyche still here, fitness levels of players like Defour, improved quality of squad.

That and we've had the usual luck to go with it.
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beddie
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by beddie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:48 am

Belief, luck, have all played a big part. We just need to find some good form at home and get those much needed wins.

ablueclaret
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Re: what has changed, and why are we so good suddenly ?

Post by ablueclaret » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am

We do have a slightly better side now although the loss of Gray has made us more one dimensional up front.
I fancy we will struggle against mid-table sides where we have to attack more and our lack of options upfront will show up.
Creating chances is always going to be an issue for us with our present set-up.

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