Solving the England crisis

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Rumbletonk
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Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:20 pm

I swore I wouldn't watch England this week through fear of kicking my TV in and smashing my house up in a fit of fury and despair. I turned it off at halftime and kept all my worldly goods intact.

How about this? No premier league teams can have an academy/youth policy. All kids have to go through the other league teams. They earn a set and structured wage and premier league teams can only buy them once they have played 50 1st team games or turned 20 years old. Not only does this solve the "too much too young" issue but allows young English talent to blossom. Kids would need to show that desire and will to succeed. It would also ensure some of the PL riches are shared with the smaller clubs.

Why would the PL teams have a problem with a scheme like that. They as a collective are producing zero and spend millions failing young English footballers. Let's have some ideas

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Sidney1st » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:22 pm

I find it easier to not bother watching England, far less stress and makes tournaments more enjoyable to watch.

Plus I've got a welsh mum and I was born in N.Ireland so I've got back up options.

Rumbletonk
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:40 pm

It's not as important anymore I must admit. I lost my passion for the national team the day the FA appointed McLaren. It only hit me when I was sat in a bar in Greece congratulating a cockahoop Icelandic family on their win against us and I realised I just wasn't that arsed.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by starting_11 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:41 pm

Decided to skip it last night and the last game. I watched the first one in the last International break (cant remember who it was) and learned my lesson.

It's been said a trillion times over, incapable manager, **** players, mind numbing play.

Would you give up SD for the England job or would you rather he stay at home and improve here?

Rumbletonk
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:46 pm

It doesn't matter who is in charge now. The talent just isn't there. You could look at managers and ask questions why they couldn't get the so called golden generation to perform. You look at that starting midfield this week and start to miss Carleton Palmer and Geoff Thomas

Saxoman
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:50 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:It doesn't matter who is in charge now. The talent just isn't there. You could look at managers and ask questions why they couldn't get the so called golden generation to perform. You look at that starting midfield this week and start to miss Carleton Palmer and Geoff Thomas
We won our qualifying group by a distance, with one game spare. Given that lack of quality, southgate hasn't done all that badly!

Rumbletonk
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Your opinion is as meaningless as the qualification process

Saxoman
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:03 pm

England fans expectations are as over the top as ever.

piston broke
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by piston broke » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:07 pm

The problem is that the talent is there but for whatever reason when they pull on the England shirt they turn into doggy doodoo.
They want the caps because that affects their sponsorship deals but they want the rest from their PL efforts.
They don't need a technical manager they need somebody who would put them up against the wall by the throat and then drop them from the squad.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by TractorFace » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:08 pm

I haven't watched England since the Iceland game. I should have stopped way before that match. I've had enough of the dull football along with the awful dirge that 'band' plays throughout the games.

Saxoman
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:09 pm

piston broke wrote:The problem is that the talent is there but for whatever reason when they pull on the England shirt they turn into doggy doodoo.
They want the caps because that affects their sponsorship deals but they want the rest from their PL efforts.
They don't need a technical manager they need somebody who would put them up against the wall by the throat and then drop them from the squad.
Stuart Pearce?

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by piston broke » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:10 pm

Saxoman wrote:Stuart Pearce?
Not in a million years. Fat Sam was perfect but they soon got rid of him.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by CleggHall » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:13 pm

Henderson and Dier, I ask you?!

boatshed bill
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:14 pm

You can't coach passion.

Rumbletonk
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:20 pm

And you can't polish a turd. We brought on Lingard to try and spice things up! What a depressing thought
This user liked this post: FactualFrank

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:22 pm

If Big Sam were still in charge we'd be seeing a far better organised side. As SD has shown, individual players don't necessarily need to be good enough, as long as the team as a whole is.

Big Sam would have made sure that even the likes of Spain and Germany would find us very difficult to beat.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:25 pm

Hmm. I'm Sam's biggest fan, but I'm not 100% sure international managers get enough time on the training field to implement their style on the team.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:27 pm

Who managed Greece when they won the euros? I'd go for whoever that was.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:30 pm

I`m not sure which player made me think `I don`t give two sh*ts any more` but Raheem Sterling wouldn`t be far off the mark. I will, of course, be kicking the `TV` come the World Cup. The Iceland game was an utter disgrace. Honestly, wouldn`t bother picking any players from any of the Top 6 teams, except Heaton, Tarkowski, Mee and Cork!

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by COYC73 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:31 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:And you can't polish a turd
Mythbusters proved that you can indeed Polish a turd..... ;)

FactualFrank
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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:33 pm

Spijed wrote:If Big Sam were still in charge we'd be seeing a far better organised side.
This is what a lot of England fans seem to say, and you know what - A LOT said it when Fabio Capello took over. That we had the man to get us winning things. Neither him, nor Sven could get us into a major final. So I don't see why Classless Sam would do any better.

Looking at the side against Slovenia we lacked the quality - regardless of who was managing us.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:34 pm

Saxoman wrote:Who managed Greece when they won the euros? I'd go for whoever that was.
Otto Rehhagel.

How many of Greece's players were good enough and yet they won Euro 2004?

Just shows you don't have to have the best players.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:35 pm

FactualFrank wrote:This is what a lot of England fans seem to say, and you know what - A LOT said it when Fabio Capello took over. That we had the man to get us winning things. Neither him, nor Sven could get us into a major final. So I don't see why Classless Sam would do any better.

Looking at the side against Slovenia we lacked the quality - regardless of who was managing us.
If Greece could win Euro 2004 then why not?

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:40 pm

No manager in the history of football could win a tournament with that team. A new boss would be papering over the cracks. We have to encourage the talent that is being crushed by the current PL. I genuinely think my idea would work

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:41 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:No manager in the history of football could win a tournament with that team. A new boss would be papering over the cracks. We have to encourage the talent that is being crushed by the current PL. I genuinely think my idea would work
Greece?

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Were Portugal the best team at euro 2016? Far from it, the were indifferent in most games, yet scrambled through to win it. A fair deal of luck involved if there's no outstanding team.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:08 pm

Having a bloke with his own museum in the squad is a good start though

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:10 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:Having a bloke with his own museum in the squad is a good start though
We had Beckham for years. 2 of his penalties still haven't come down from the sky yet.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by piston broke » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:29 pm

Saxoman wrote:We had Beckham for years. 2 of his penalties still haven't come down from the sky yet.
The shoot out pen he took in Portugal against Portugal I wouldn't be at all surprised if it came out they had a gizmo under the pitch. I've never seen a pitch collapse like that before or since.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:37 pm

piston broke wrote:The shoot out pen he took in Portugal against Portugal I wouldn't be at all surprised if it came out they had a gizmo under the pitch. I've never seen a pitch collapse like that before or since.
He did it twice, one at wembley I think! There was always excuses for darling Beckham though!

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by criminalclaret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:43 pm

I get the feeling that England players treat the internationals like it's a jolly. Sort of like when you have a a training day away for work. They all meet up and have a laugh, listen to Southgate for a bit, do some training drills and run out at Wembley. There never seems to be any thirst or hunger, just seem to go through the motions. Then back to the glamour of the PL a week later.

Throw that to the likes of Ireland, Belguim, Wales (possibly) where they don't have any great quality domestic leagues and there players scattered a over the world, they genuinely come together and play with pride and passion, even if they don't have the skill levels of other bugger nations.

Maybe in some way the PL has damaged the England national team as, managerial merry-go-round, player egos, etc.

Southgate has a lot to work on but I'd stick with him for the WC. And we need to be examining the process that Germany and Spain go through in as they consistently have some of the best domestic leagues in the world and the most successful in tournaments also

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:46 pm

criminalclaret wrote:I get the feeling that England players treat the internationals like it's a jolly. Sort of like when you have a a training day away for work. They all meet up and have a laugh, listen to Southgate for a bit, do some training drills and run out at Wembley. There never seems to be any thirst or hunger, just seem to go through the motions. Then back to the glamour of the PL a week later.

Throw that to the likes of Ireland, Belguim, Wales (possibly) where they don't have any great quality domestic leagues and there players scattered a over the world, they genuinely come together and play with pride and passion, even if they don't have the skill levels of other bugger nations.

Maybe in some way the PL has damaged the England national team as, managerial merry-go-round, player egos, etc.

Southgate has a lot to work on but I'd stick with him for the WC. And we need to be examining the process that Germany and Spain go through in their process as they consistently have some of the best domestic leagues in the world and the most successful in tournaments also
Do you really think that when Vokes plays for Wales he puts his heart into it, yet when Tom Heaton or Michael Keane turn up for England they think it's all a big laugh?

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by criminalclaret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:13 pm

Spijed wrote:Do you really think that when Vokes plays for Wales he puts his heart into it, yet when Tom Heaton or Michael Keane turn up for England they think it's all a big laugh?
Yes to your first question. Not necessarily to the second. Players from less domestically successful /smaller clubs who get a call up tend to relish the opportunity more, as you have pointed out with Heating and Keane. Same goes for Pickford, and a few others.

Gary Cahill isn't exactly Terry Butcher or Stuart Pearce let's be honest.

Suppose the allure of trying to win the PL, FA Cup or European Football is more important because some players have already achieved these already. So when it comes to qualification games or major football tournaments there just isn't the desire to well.

That Iceland defeat was absolutely pathetic and that should be used to rally the players and making sure that never gets repeated again.

How do you learn otherwise?! This is why is love the FA to conduct studies/research/whatever into what makes the German and Spanish national teams so successful. If it needs more youth policies or like the OP said a form or capping or draft system for young players then so be it.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:18 pm

criminalclaret wrote:Yes to your first question. Not necessarily to the second. Players from less domestically successful /smaller clubs who get a call up tend to relish the opportunity more, as you have pointed out with Heating and Keane. Same goes for Pickford, and a few others.

Gary Cahill isn't exactly Terry Butcher or Stuart Pearce let's be honest.

Suppose the allure of trying to win the PL, FA Cup or European Football is more important because some players have already achieved these already. So when it comes to qualification games or major football tournaments there just isn't the desire to well.

That Iceland defeat was absolutely pathetic and that should be used to rally the players and making sure that never gets repeated again.

How do you learn otherwise?! This is why is love the FA to conduct studies/research/whatever into what makes the German and Spanish national teams so successful. If it needs more youth policies or like the OP said a form or capping or draft system for young players then so be it.
Harry Kane seemed very pleased when he scored the other night, which suggests he's delighted to score for England and that it meant something.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:25 pm

You can't teach English players to have a german winning mentality. When the pressure is on, it brings the best out of the Germans. Always has.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by criminalclaret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:34 pm

Spijed wrote:Harry Kane seemed very pleased when he scored the other night, which suggests he's delighted to score for England and that it meant something.
So find me 20 more Harry Kane's for the WC squad and and we might make an improvement on the last tournament.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by colne-claret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:52 pm

I think England need to know their limitations. A little like we do. Make ourselves difficult to beat and try and hit teams on the counter. We're not going to out football the likes of Brazil & Spain we just need to make it difficult for them to break us down like Iceland did against us last year. With Harry Kane up top and players like Alli, Lallana, Rashford we could hit teams on the break. I just think Southgate needs to pick a formation and stick with it. Players shouldn't be playing on names either. Why is Chamberlain playing for England? He is over rated. I genuinely believe with the limited choice of central midfielders that Jack Cork would be a good addition to England side. England managers tend to be too loyal to players too. Hart for instance.

4 2 3 1 for me.

Something along the lines of:

Butland
Trippier Keane Cahill Rose
Cork Dier
Lallana Alli Rashford
Kane.

As somebody said earlier on in this post. Portugal didn't play that good football last year but they were very difficult to beat.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:56 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:No manager in the history of football could win a tournament with that team. A new boss would be papering over the cracks. We have to encourage the talent that is being crushed by the current PL. I genuinely think my idea would work
I can see what your idea would seek to achieve and agree that it would achieve some of its aims.

However, how could you ban Premier League clubs from having an academy or youth system when three teams change in the league every year?

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Spijed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:02 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:No manager in the history of football could win a tournament with that team. A new boss would be papering over the cracks. We have to encourage the talent that is being crushed by the current PL. I genuinely think my idea would work
Talent isn't being crushed by the PL, it never has been. Even in the 80's England struggled in tournaments which suggests we've always had a problem, which isn't a new one.

Prior to 1992, when the PL was formed, can anyone really say the national side was in a better shape than it is now?

People need to look at how younger players are trained in Europe. With all due respect to BFC coaching players, it will be light years behind coaching methods in Spain for example.

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by Saxoman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:13 pm

colne-claret wrote:I think England need to know their limitations. A little like we do. Make ourselves difficult to beat and try and hit teams on the counter. We're not going to out football the likes of Brazil & Spain we just need to make it difficult for them to break us down like Iceland did against us last year. With Harry Kane up top and players like Alli, Lallana, Rashford we could hit teams on the break. I just think Southgate needs to pick a formation and stick with it. Players shouldn't be playing on names either. Why is Chamberlain playing for England? He is over rated. I genuinely believe with the limited choice of central midfielders that Jack Cork would be a good addition to England side. England managers tend to be too loyal to players too. Hart for instance.

4 2 3 1 for me.

Something along the lines of:

Butland
Trippier Keane Cahill Rose
Cork Dier
Lallana Alli Rashford
Kane.

As somebody said earlier on in this post. Portugal didn't play that good football last year but they were very difficult to beat.
Give it a rest about jack bloody cork ffs..! :lol:

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Re: Solving the England crisis

Post by colne-claret » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:26 pm

Saxoman wrote:Give it a rest about jack bloody cork ffs..! :lol:
Who else is there? He is better than Livermore.

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