Car advice please

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:53 pm

Our youngest has just moved schools to the tops of Oswaldtwistle and my wife has been told that the weather is bleak up there every winter (it is near Haslingden Old Road so very high up) and they get plenty ice and snow.

The car that we have at the moment, a Ford Grand Max, is absolutely useless in the ice and snow so we are looking to buy a four wheel drive before the winter.

I know as much about cars as I do about football so I wondered if any of the good folk of UTC could recommend anything.

It would need to be a five seater and something that would allow me to throw my 87 year old father-in-law into the back seat of as he can hardly walk so it can't be anything too high up. Oh and the wife wants a leather interior and if possible wi-fi.

I've checked out a few websites and they of course all promise you the earth but I can't cope with going sitting in front of salesmen for hours on end hearing the same old crap.

Any help would be appreciated.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:22 pm

Although I have no knowledge of 4x4s, I would absolutely recommend going on carbuyer.co.uk or watching carwow video reviews on youtube when you have nailed your choices down to 4 or 5 options.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:32 pm

Budget?

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:37 pm

I had a jaguar x-type all wheel drive. It was superb in snow and ice (the best I've ever driven in those conditions)

brunlea99 · Post by **brunlea99** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:45 pm

Whilst not knowing your budgetary requirements, it may be best to review your need for a true 4x4 rather than pay out any extra expense. If your key factor is the school run in winter it may be best to check on how many times a year there has been snow/ice on the roads to the school. If the roads are that bad isn't it likely that the school would be closed anyway ? You could check with the school how many times it has been closed over the last couple of winters for snow/ice ? Then you can weigh up the cost/benefit of the extra outlay for a 4x4.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:14 pm

Tybfc,

If you ring W18 and ask for Adrian, he works mainly at weekends. He will help you, friend of mine and knowledgeable about his cars. You will not get salesman patter.

cbx750 · Post by **cbx750** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 pm

You could try these, I have some and they have got me out of the white stuff a few times.

http://www.autosock.co.uk/

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:46 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Tybfc,

If you ring W18 and ask for Adrian, he works mainly at weekends. He will help you, friend of mine and knowledgeable about his cars. You will not get salesman patter.

And tell them you have been recommended by Up the Clarets - they advertise with us.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:50 pm

With a school nearby the roads will be gritted etc.

Could be worth looking at winter tyres instead of a completely different car.

Depending on budget you can pick up a decent Discovery 3/4, just avoid the 2.7 V6 diesel engine, it's toss.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:04 pm

I have a 1 series BMW that can't negotiate a flat road in winter until I change to my winter tyres and then I can go almost anywhere. Ask a tyre specialist if it will help, it's certainly cheaper than buying another car. A lot of people driving 4x4's have rubbish tyres fitted and don't get much benefit anyway.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Honda crv's used to be great. Not sure about the late ones though

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:41 pm

Thanks for the advice guys

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Just Buy some snow tyres for your current car. The difference a good set of snow tyres will make is massive.

john'sroseyspecs · Post by **john'sroseyspecs** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:14 pm

Another vote for the discovery 3. You can get a good reliable car with a good spec for next to nowt nowadays.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:19 pm

tybfc wrote:Thanks for the advice guys

Tybfc,
I was in a rush earlier.
W18 source cars for people as well as selling what they have on the forecourt.

My friend works part time so not a real salesman, but he is a car nut. He will help guide you to a car that suits you.

So you can tell them what you want, type, colour , age, mileage, etc and they will source a car for you.

It will be fully serviced once they get it.

They do (I think for my conversations) a return to base warranty. Owt goes wrong just take it back and they will sort it. Not sure on length.

Clarinetclaret · Post by **Clarinetclaret** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:14 am

Longsider wrote:Just Buy some snow tyres for your current car. The difference a good set of snow tyres will make is massive.

Yes snow tyres round here make all the difference. Especially in the 1 inch snow drifts we get once a year haha.

TheOriginalLongsider · Post by **TheOriginalLongsider** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:56 am

Winter tyres for the winter months and snow chains for really bad weather. Most schools shut when snow gets bad anyway

levraiclaret · Post by **levraiclaret** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:38 am

Yes winter tyres should be your first consideration.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:07 am

Ty. Like JohnMac I went for winte tyres on by BMW 1 series. I took some convincing by the garage but what a difference they made. I decided only last week to buy a set of wheels for the tyres to go on, I ended up buying wheels with tyres already on them hence I have a set of 4 winter tyres for sale, they've little mileage on them and in excellent condition. Probably not your size of wheel but could check if your interested, either way have a think about buying a set, at least it's worth a try for only a few hundred pounds rather than the expense of buying another car and you could always sell the tyres on. Good luck. J.

uni_queue · Post by **uni_queue** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:29 pm

If changing tyres between winter and summer is a faff for you try a set of All- Season tyres now - eg Michelin cross climate or Nokian weatherproof.
Ive heard good reports which suggest that they are a big step up in winter performance over your "normal" tyres and generally good in the wet conditrions that seem to prevail in these parts for most of the year.
You will be fine unless you want to push the car to its limits in v hot weather!
You may need to change them before they run completely out of tread to maintain the winter performance tho.
Overall I echo most posters above - tyres make all the difference in snow\slush .
Nothing helps on ice (apart from studs).
A two wheel drive car like you have , on winter tyres will out perform most AWD on "normal" tyres in snow .....
Mine just spins all four wheels

On the other hand an AWD with a full winter set is another step up.

Note that 4 x 4 as in Land rover and other "off roader" types isnt the same thing as "AWD " on eg some SUV .

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Ty. I live up green Haworth and I think I've only had 1-2 days in the last 4 years when we've been snowed in... the gritter/ plough always gets up here because of the school.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:25 pm

I used to live in Loveclough.
It snowed up there when it rained in Burnley.
I had true snow tyres n in the winter, they can be very noisy .
I believe the new four season tyres are good but not as good as true winter tyres.
I have snow chains for when it got really deep.

However there are now snow socks which work amazingly well.
A few years ago my partner had to pick up her daughter from a school that n Brittania, Bacup and drive back to Burnley over Weir. She put on the snow socks herself outside school and drove over the tops. We think it was 6-8 inches deep and she drove home no issues.

It all depends on what's best for you TY.

But I agree with many comments above, a 4x4 with road tyres on is little better than a 2 wheel drive with road tyres.
I had a merc C classs auto on winter tyres and that was fine till the snow got about 3 inch thick, then I put on snow socks.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:30 pm

Your car should be fine in snow with decent tyres, change your tyres and keep the rest of your money in your pocket for something more exciting.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 pm

Another vote here for winter tyres...they are made of a softer rubber compound and have a different thread pattern than " Standard Issue "...
I change every October to winters, and back again in April. Burnley Tyre & Battery did it for £38 last time, another of our advertisers..

Obviously you have the outlay on the winter tyres, I got 4 for a 13 plate Mondeo delivered free to the door for £280, and then the fitting etc.. but nothing compared to the cost of changing your vehicle, and obviously, each set of tyres are sharing the mileage, so your regular tyres should last twice as long..

Winter v Summer tyre test...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chrLCKzAVVg

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:58 pm

Guys, don't get winter tyres and have the faff of changing em, storing em and having to bugger about. The best tyres on the market are Michelin Cross Climate, they have all year capability and are superb in snow too. They give a very good MPG rate, are quiet on the road (unlike winters) and grip like the proverbial to the blanket. I have tested these tyres on the MIRA test track and Michelin put a set on my car for evaluation, they are on the cusp of launching a new version which is Crossclimate plus. Research them, you will be chuffed and the best price you will normally get is via Black Circles.

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/micheli ... -3030-GOO-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[Crossclimate_Exact]--S-[michelin%20crossclimate]&xts=454776&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpPD0nZP71gIVE-MbCh1WTgDzEAAYAyAAEgLB8PD_BwE

If you have any other questions, please ask. I work as a fleet engineer and we have fitted these extensively and we go through quite a lot of tyres on the fleet.

ALP · Post by **ALP** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:59 pm

Ty, one cracking 4 x 4 is the Skoda Scout, gives us great coverage and good handling capabilities; try one out at Simpsons Colne.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:48 pm

After weighing up all of the advice, mainly from here, we have decided against changing vehicles. It is only 5 years old and has only done 15k miles and depreciated £21,000.

So worth a go at snow tyres which have been ordered and will be here tomorrow and fitted free thanks to Michelin with a free dash camera chucked in.

I don't know what I'm doing so I have tried to take the most sensible, objective views and on the first icy morning I will report back.

Thanks for all the advice.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:00 am

Alp, I suppose it's all down to choice and budget ( I priced Michelin Crossclimate for my car and it was £600 + fitting )...
I think we can all agree, don't just go charging in to change your car to a 4X4 on the basis of a few days potential snow...

Up to you,Ty...

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:02 am

Is the school on a bus route? Because if so, and the buses aren't running, the school will be closed; if the buses are running, put him on the bus.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:09 am

He wouldn't cope on a bus. He goes to a specialist school because of anxiety and trauma and couldn't manage large numbers of kids on a bus for an hour or so. I wish he could.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:24 am

tybfc wrote:After weighing up all of the advice, mainly from here, we have decided against changing vehicles. It is only 5 years old and has only done 15k miles and depreciated £21,000.

Ford Grand C-Max, 5 years old and 15,000 on the clock...really ? I presume it's a 7 seater Diesel ?
That depreciation made me wince, sounds like you bought it new or pre/registered.
Good shout with the winter tyres, but get back on here if you're ever thinking of changing...there are folk on here that could save you a bob or two next time round...
Good luck !!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:53 am

Do winter tyres work with rear wheel drive cars?

Been hearing different reports of this.
Had a Merc sports which was great, but pathetic in snow.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 am

Clarets4me wrote:Ford Grand C-Max, 5 years old and 15,000 on the clock...really ? I presume it's a 7 seater Diesel ?
That depreciation made me wince, sounds like you bought it new or pre/registered.
Good shout with the winter tyres, but get back on here if you're ever thinking of changing...there are folk on here that could save you a bob or two next time round...
Good luck !!

Thanks for that.

Yes paid 28k in 2012 and the wife has managed 15,000 miles since and we have been offered between 6,500 and 7,500 for it from different garages.

It's like brand new as you would imagine so a no brainer to try for the winter tyres.

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:18 am

tybfc wrote:After weighing up all of the advice, mainly from here, we have decided against changing vehicles. It is only 5 years old and has only done 15k .

15k ... It has barely been run in!

A Sensible choice fine fella.

p.s. (don't know whether you want "rims" for the the tyres you are swapping off? So you can swap them back easily - but after a search they are reasonable at £60 each brand new, more £ depending on style selected).

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:36 am

HunterST_BFC wrote:15k ... It has barely been run in!

A Sensible choice fine fella.

p.s. (don't know whether you want "rims" for the the tyres you are swapping off? So you can swap them back easily - but after a search they are reasonable at £60 each brand new, more £ depending on style selected).

Thanks for that I will have a look.

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:15 am

tybfc wrote:Thanks for that I will have a look.

Re rims -
Maybe others can advise better than me as to which to pick. Happy to give link to an online site (I've never bought from) but probably better to ask for recommendations from others first who have experience / knowledge.

I did spot your cars' rim spec' is shared with plenty of other Ford models (eg Focus - certainly some Focus' models... . )
(Not checked but probably other makes also?)
This may lead to finding a better option / price. etc

There are people far better qualified than me on UTC who can advise / help, with this and car stuff.
- I can be sure of that as a fact at least.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:49 am

ElectroClaret wrote:Do winter tyres work with rear wheel drive cars?

Been hearing different reports of this.
Had a Merc sports which was great, but pathetic in snow.

Not unless you dramatically change the weight distribution. It will be better but it still won't be close to as good as a FWD.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:47 am

Ty. That's a good move and definitely with the price difference between the cost of tyres and changing the vehicle. Make sure the tyre pressures are correctly set and check them every few weeks. Let us know how things go.hope they do the trick.

Lee72 · Post by **Lee72** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:43 am

I'd seriously consider the cross climate (Michelin) tyres. Whatcar did an in depth review and came to the conclusion they were only marginally worse than dedicated winter tyres in snow but performed well in summer. Saves the money on getting extra rims - and the storage hassle/changing wheels every 6 months etc. I'd definitely have them on my car if they went up to the size I'd need and given what other people have said about the snow levels up there I'd say they'd be ideal.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:38 pm

I had snow tyres after parking at Anfield.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:04 pm

I had Pirelli Sottozero 3 tyres on my old car and they were great.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:44 pm

I know it's not a selling site but as we've been discussing tyres. If anyone's interested I have 4 winter tyres for sale 205/55/R16 they have done about 2,000 miles and in excellent condition. If sold I will gladly make a contribution to the youth fund if it's still called that.

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:01 pm

I had a Subaru Legacy estate with winter tyres a few years ago when it was a particularly bad winter - it was pretty much unstoppable in any conditions. Absolutely no need to go for a 4x4 type off road vehicle.

Also had a golf (2wd) with winter tyres and passed a stuck Suzuki Vitara (4wd) in snow coming out of Huddersfield 1 year.

Moral is get winter tyres - keep the car.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:44 pm

deanothedino wrote:Not unless you dramatically change the weight distribution. It will be better but it still won't be close to as good as a FWD.

Incorrect as I said higher up I had a merc C class auto on snow tyres and it was great n the snow when most FWD were sat there spinning but going no where.
Stared buying them after I saw a mate cortina auto years ago go up a steep farm lane 6 inch deep in snow.

Also snow socks do the same job and only need to put them on when it snows

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:04 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Incorrect as I said higher up I had a merc C class auto on snow tyres and it was great n the snow when most FWD were sat there spinning but going no where.
Stared buying them after I saw a mate cortina auto years ago go up a steep farm lane 6 inch deep in snow.

Also snow socks do the same job and only need to put them on when it snows

It's not incorrect. Weight distribution is the main reason that FWD cars have better traction in snow than RWD cars, because most cars have their engine at the front.

It's great that snow tyres have made your car good in snow, it would be even better if its drive wheels where located under a sizeable mass - like an engine.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:47 pm

deanothedino wrote:It's not incorrect. Weight distribution is the main reason that FWD cars have better traction in snow than RWD cars, because most cars have their engine at the front.

It's great that snow tyres have made your car good in snow, it would be even better if its drive wheels where located under a sizeable mass - like an engine.

You have a right to your opinion, but I truly disagree.

A front wheel drive car on normal tyres which are worn will struggle up a very slight incline. As will rear wheel drive car. The position of the engine might make a slight difference both will not get up that incline.

If you put snow tyres/socks one either car they will both easily get up that slight incline.

I therefore argue the major contributor is the tyres or socks and not the weight distribution of the vehicles.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:00 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:You have a right to your opinion, but I truly disagree.

A front wheel drive car on normal tyres which are worn will struggle up a very slight incline. As will rear wheel drive car. The position of the engine might make a slight difference both will not get up that incline.

If you put snow tyres/socks one either car they will both easily get up that slight incline.

I therefore argue the major contributor is the tyres or socks and not the weight distribution of the vehicles.

But it's not an opinion. It is physics.

You are moving the goalposts by suggesting worn tyres. How worn are you calling worn? You've introduced a massive variable.

A front wheel drive car with the engine located at the front with good quality tyres will be better in snow than a rear wheel drive car with the engine located at the front with good quality tyres.

A rear wheel car with winter tyres will be better than without but it won't be better than a front wheel drive car with comparable tyres and may well not be as good as front wheel drive car with normal tyres. You can further increase the performance of a RWD car but putting sandbags in the boot because weight over the drive wheels is a major contributor to traction.

CaptJohn · Post by **CaptJohn** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:05 pm

I've driven rear wheel drive cars for a number of years and always change over to winter tyres in October. OK it is a bit of a pain but a local tyre dealer does the change over for 48 quid which includes balancing and it takes an hour. The difference in performance in the wet/snow/ice is considerable with the winter tyres fitted. I would recommend them for rear wheel drive vehicles especially if you have a few horses under the bonnet and a heavy right foot

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:25 pm

deanothedino wrote:But it's not an opinion. It is physics.

You are moving the goalposts by suggesting worn tyres. How worn are you calling worn? You've introduced a massive variable.

A front wheel drive car with the engine located at the front with good quality tyres will be better in snow than a rear wheel drive car with the engine located at the front with good quality tyres.

A rear wheel car with winter tyres will be better than without but it won't be better than a front wheel drive car with comparable tyres and may well not be as good as front wheel drive car with normal tyres. You can further increase the performance of a RWD car but putting sandbags in the boot because weight over the drive wheels is a major contributor to traction.

Like I said you are ok to have your opinion.
Front engined FWD and RWD with the same tyres on , the FWD will be slightly better but with normal summer tyres both will be crap in snow.

Put winter tyres on either they will both perform significantly better.

Tyres have a far greater impact on ability to drive in snow than position of engine.

Over 30odd years I have had or driven all sorts of cars and configurations and **** tyres get em all stuck, even 4x4's.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:28 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Like I said you are ok to have your opinion.
Front engined FWD and RWD with the same tyres on , the FWD will be slightly better but with normal summer tyres both will be crap in snow.

Put winter tyres on either they will both perform significantly better.

Tyres have a far greater impact on ability to drive in snow than position of engine.

Over 30odd years I have had or driven all sorts of cars and configurations and **** tyres get em all stuck, even 4x4's.

And like I said, it isn't an opinion.

Two cars that are exactly the same, same tyres, same front engine location, same everything except drive method.

Which is better in snow, the RWD or the FWD? Why is that one better?