Everton ownership question - Panorama

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:40 am

The Times (Sat 4-Nov-2017): Panorama to question ownership of Everton

"Everton’s ownership and the alleged involvement of Alisher Usmanov, the Arsenal shareholder, at Goodison Park will be scrutinised in a two-part Panorama special to be broadcast on the BBC tomorrow and Monday.

"The BBC has obtained documents pertaining to Usmanov’s purchase of a 14.58 per cent stake in Arsenal in 2007 through the Red & White investment vehicle that he jointly owned with Farhad Moshiri, who sold up to his business partner last year to facilitate his purchase of 49.9 per cent of Everton.

"It is understood that Panorama will claim that the documents show that Moshiri’s initial Arsenal stake was a gift from Usmanov, leading to the suggestion that the billionaire from Uzbekistan was behind the Iranian’s purchase of Everton as he was the original source of the funds.

"Everton and a spokesman for Usmanov deny that he has any involvement at Goodison, which would be a breach of Premier League rules that state any shareholder with a 10 per cent stake in one club cannot buy into another.

"There have been unsubstantiated rumours for some time that Usmanov would ultimately join Moshiri at Everton as he has no influence at Arsenal and the pair have a number of joint investments, whispers which increased after Usmanov’s company, USM Holdings, announced a sponsorship deal for the club’s training ground in January.

"The Premier League conducted a rigorous due diligence process before signing off Moshiri’s Everton purchase and is confident that he used his own money."

(End of Times article).

No mention of Everton's management situation in Times article. No mention of Sean Dyche.

Interesting question: would you take a job with an employer when questions are being asked about the ownership? Is Everton a "secure" job opportunity for an ambitious manager?

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:04 am

looks like they're dodgy buggers, good luck sean,

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:21 am

Very much doubt anything will come of it or that it'll affect Dyche's decision one iota.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:36 am

There's not much evidence that clubs and/or fans are that bothered
where the owners' money comes from or how it was obtained.
Or, given recent history, that they are foreign owned.

And that is probably the case with managers in the main.

Everton were one of the last clubs to be acquired by foreign owners
and presumably did their homework on Moshiri.
Or did they?

There's not many British owned clubs left.
And maybe that reflects the global nature/brand the Premiership has become
over the last 20 years or so.

I'm sure Dyche would have reflected on that and whether he could have
a good relationship with them albeit in Everton's case they've retained
their previous Chairman (who's name I've forgotten) in some capacity
which seems like a good decision.
And they've clearly put some money into the club but maybe nowhere near as much as some folk think.
They paid off Koeman from Southampton and spent around 140m which sounds a lot
but then they got 80m for Lukaka so their net spend is around 60m.

I think foreign owners also prefer to appoint foreign managers
who may have good contacts abroad and can bring in overseas players
more readily and easily.

But we all know and probably turn a blind eye to
their 'wheelings and dealings'. Some of which are decidedly dodgy.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:54 am

The PL carried out due diligence?

I'm impressed if that's true, might show they learnt from the Portsmouth debacle.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:02 am

Sidney1st wrote:The PL carried out due diligence?

I'm impressed if that's true, might show they learnt from the Portsmouth debacle.

A considerable amount has been learned and only last year they prevented Chinese brother and sister Dai Yongge and Dai Xiu Li from buying Hull. Same can't be said for the Football League, they allowed them to then buy Reading.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:04 am

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that with Hull and Reading.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:50 am

Nothing on here about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006t14 ... ts/2017/11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:35 am

Kenwright has done an excellent job at Everton with nowhere near the funds of the top 6.
If they wanted to stay up there a major cash injection was needed.
Maybe he's backed the wrong horse?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:A considerable amount has been learned and only last year they prevented Chinese brother and sister Dai Yongge and Dai Xiu Li from buying Hull. Same can't be said for the Football League, they allowed them to then buy Reading.

Wasn't it because Dai Xiu Li was a little dodgy.

The other bought Reading with a cousin and they were fine with Liv Fasht and Dai Yongge owning a team.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:30 am

Sounds like somebody up there (media) likes us, given the timing. Let's hope it's another put-off for Dyche.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:40 am

How I understand The Times' reporting: Moshiri held shares in Arsenal - he was gifted these shares by Usmanov. Moshiri sold his shares in Arsenal to Usmanov - and used the money from the sale of his Arsenal shares to buy shares in Everton. The question appears to be is Moshiri a "proxy" for Usmanov - and, so does Usmanov control Moshiri's shares in Everton. Premier League rules prohibit any shareholder owning more than 10% of the shares in more than one club. Both Everton and Usmanov (spokesperson) deny that the latter is involved with Everton.

Will be interesting to see how Panorama reports.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:44 am

Sounds like BFS and Everton are made for each other

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:45 am

They are trying to build the UK as a value-less society so that it is more in keeping with Asia and Africa and football managers are the media protagonists of the psychological mandate.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:48 am

We've seen enough examples of the PL and their "due diligence" to know it's utter bollo***!
The PL ask a question,the prospective owner answers it and then says "I swear down!" and that makes it all true! (Apparently!)

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:55 pm

Only one man for the job then if this alleged scandal could result in the financial collapse of Everton come on down Harry

Man of Kent · Post by **Man of Kent** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:44 pm

bfcjg wrote:Only one man for the job then if this alleged scandal could result in the financial collapse of Everton come on down Harry

...and his assistant manager Sam Allardyce!

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:17 pm

Is this some sort of hoax? I can’t find any listing for panorama either tomorrow or Monday and I find it difficult to believe that they would devote two programmes to investigating the ownership of any football club - let alone Everton.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:13 pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pano ... -2038bdw32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thelaughingclaret · Post by **thelaughingclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:20 pm

How many years are Everton ahead of Burnley? 5? 10 perhaps?

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:58 pm

bfcjg wrote:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pano ... -2038bdw32

I’ve seen the article but I can’t find a listing for the programme anywhere. And a two-parter???

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:02 pm

I’ve checked the Sky listings and there’s nothing on there...

dales_claret · Post by **dales_claret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:31 pm

https://talksport.com/football/everton- ... oey-barton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:35 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:I’ve checked the Sky listings and there’s nothing on there...

I searched panorama and found it quite easily.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:24 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I searched panorama and found it quite easily.

When is it on then Sid - I’ve searched again and I can’t find anything for Panorama on BBC tomorrow or Monday, and I did use the search facility - loads of catch up and on demand but nothing as far as I can see.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:26 pm

Showing 9-10 on Monday on mine.

Nothing tomorrow though.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:32 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:When is it on then Sid - I’ve searched again and I can’t find anything for Panorama on BBC tomorrow or Monday, and I did use the search facility - loads of catch up and on demand but nothing as far as I can see.

On Sky it should appear by just searching 'pano' (without quotes).

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:33 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Showing 9-10 on Monday on mine.

Nothing tomorrow though.

I think we can wait until Monday, can't we.

I don't think what ever has gone on at Everton with regards to their ownership, or their football performances is of much concern to Burnley FC and us fans.

UTC

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:34 pm

Mines listing Britain’s offshore secrets... which is apparently Panorama. Nothing about Everton in the description though...

: 7A80C737-0B0E-4EB2-822D-5A42960743BE.png (579.1 KiB) Viewed 4682 times

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:36 pm

Just showing Panorama on mine. No details on content.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:When is it on then Sid - I’ve searched again and I can’t find anything for Panorama on BBC tomorrow or Monday, and I did use the search facility - loads of catch up and on demand but nothing as far as I can see.

Weirdly I've searched again and it's not there..

I checked my recording section and I got the same title you've found..
I'll just wait and see what it actually shows.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:05 pm

The funding for Everton came from offshore accounts according to the Times hence the title.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:25 pm

Slightly off-topic but Panorama running a programme on Everton's ownership will really get the Wover's fans riled up.

They've been desperate for the media to reveal Glen Mullan's dossier for years

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:30 pm

Tomorrow at 6pm and Monday at 9pm.

Would appear to be about tax Dodgers and other things like that.
Isn't specifically about Everton, but if it helps to put Dyche off them, I'm sure someone on here can make sure he gets a copy by Tuesday.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:47 pm

Dodgy as hell. If the Prem don't investigate them it really is a case of anything goes. The guy who owns Everton got all his cash from the Arsenal owner he is pulling the strings.he owns the company that own Everton. Corrupt.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:49 pm

Anyone watch it? The Everton ownership section is part of the (two-part) Offshore Secrets programme. Panorama showed documents that suggest a connection between Usmanov, Arsenal's 30% shareholder and Moshiri, Everton's 49.9% shareholder.

Everton won this afternoon. Well done David Unsworth.

UTC

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:55 pm

Got it recorded.

Apparently even the queen stashes her money in tax havens.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:55 pm

I said it is dodgy and corrupt in my opinion. I don't think the BBCs lawyers would have allowed it to be aired if it wasn't true
Must be serious questions asked about the money. This could stuff Everton big style. Point deduction could be their least concern.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:09 pm

There is too much amiss at Everton for them to think that Dyche is a good fit for them.

It has to be Allardyce until the end of the season with both having an option for longer.

A reinforced bench with BFS and Unsworth could also be a possibility

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:12 pm

Spike wrote: A reinforced bench with BFS and Unsworth could also be a possibility

Made me smile...

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:27 pm

Naturally the guardian have the inside track

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... ad-moshiri" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:22 pm

Interesting revelations on the Panorama programme regarding Moshiri and Usmanov. On the face of it there seems to be a definite conflict of interest in their ownership of Arsenal and Everton and the next few days will be interesting to see how they both respond.

It reminds me of the sale of Longside Properties to Lionbridge (a company registered in the BVI) and how fortunate we were that in the end ownership of the Turf and Gawthorpe were eventually returned to their rightful place. The thought that TM might have ended up as another Tesco or the like due to a legal cock up is enough to send shivers down the spine.

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:37 pm

jurek wrote:There's not much evidence that clubs and/or fans are that bothered
where the owners' money comes from or how it was obtained.
Or, given recent history, that they are foreign owned.

And that is probably the case with managers in the main.

Everton were one of the last clubs to be acquired by foreign owners
and presumably did their homework on Moshiri.
Or did they?

There's not many British owned clubs left.
And maybe that reflects the global nature/brand the Premiership has become
over the last 20 years or so.

I'm sure Dyche would have reflected on that and whether he could have
a good relationship with them albeit in Everton's case they've retained
their previous Chairman (who's name I've forgotten) in some capacity
which seems like a good decision.
And they've clearly put some money into the club but maybe nowhere near as much as some folk think.
They paid off Koeman from Southampton and spent around 140m which sounds a lot
but then they got 80m for Lukaka so their net spend is around 60m.

I think foreign owners also prefer to appoint foreign managers
who may have good contacts abroad and can bring in overseas players
more readily and easily.

But we all know and probably turn a blind eye to
their 'wheelings and dealings'. Some of which are decidedly dodgy.

Is it National Poetry Week already

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:44 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Interesting revelations on the Panorama programme regarding Moshiri and Usmanov. On the face of it there seems to be a definite conflict of interest in their ownership of Arsenal and Everton and the next few days will be interesting to see how they both respond.

It reminds me of the sale of Longside Properties to Lionbridge (a company registered in the BVI) and how fortunate we were that in the end ownership of the Turf and Gawthorpe were eventually returned to their rightful place. The thought that TM might have ended up as another Tesco or the like due to a legal cock up is enough to send shivers down the spine.

Would have been fun to watch the crosses coming in from the frozen veg isle. Not sure how we would have handled an "unexpected item in the bagging area."

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:49 pm

The thing is Paul Waine.......I was being deadly serious.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:58 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:The thing is Paul Waine.......I was being deadly serious.

Hi Royboy, yes, I know. Apologies, I've always had this urge to find a little laugh when things are serious.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:01 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Naturally the guardian have the inside track

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... ad-moshiri" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for posting, CP. Great article in the Guardian - and I think a little more "in depth" than shown on Panorama.

I recommend those who are interested to read this article in the Guardian.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:35 am

Apt name for writer of the piece.

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:48 am

"Moshiri and Usmanov have been emphatic that despite their very close business partnership for more than 25 years, Moshiri’s investment in Everton is entirely separate and Usmanov has no interest in it, directly or indirectly"

If it looks like Bullsh!t and smells like Bullsh!t, it usually is !

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:57 am

Part 1

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... ch-exposed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part 2 on BBC 1 tonight at 9pm

n.b.- these programmes are not just about Everton - that starts at about 20 mins in