Retro Ban For Tarks?

Guppyspotter · Post by **Guppyspotter** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:59 pm

I don't think anyone wants a ban imposed but people are accepting that if our players stoop to the cheating tactics of others then we should expect and accept just punishment. We can't want the game cleaned up but not want to be part of the purge.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:06 pm

Guppyspotter wrote:I don't think anyone wants a ban imposed but people are accepting that if our players stoop to the cheating tactics of others then we should expect and accept just punishment. We can't want the game cleaned up but not want to be part of the purge.

I wouldnt regard Tarkowski's elbow as cheating. Just a bit of foolish frustration. No more than a yellow card for me also but we'll soon see if there is any retrospective action. Shouldnt be but who knows.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:06 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Not sure why you quoted me because I wasn't defending it, what I was saying is that I believe it to be no more than a yellow. But, there again, unlike yourself, I'm not always looking for the negative angle where our club is concerned.

What exactly have I said negative? I simply wont waffle nonsense defending the indefensible because the offence was committed by a Burnley player. The people who are prepared to waffle biased guff are fake because if that was Murray elbowing Tark they would be the first ones demanding a ban. How does that make sense?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:What exactly have I said negative? I simply wont waffle nonsense defending the indefensible because the offence was committed by a Burnley player. The people who are prepared to waffle biased guff are fake because if that was Murray elbowing Tark they would be the first ones demanding a ban. How does that make sense?

Few if any are defending it. People just have a different view of how any retrospective action will be applied. If he gets a ban in the next few days then you'll have been right.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:13 pm

KRBFC wrote:What exactly have I said negative? I simply wont waffle nonsense defending the indefensible because the offence was committed by a Burnley player. The people who are prepared to waffle biased guff are fake because if that was Murray elbowing Tark they would be the first ones demanding a ban. How does that make sense?

I wouldn't be demanding a ban, I'd have been disappointed he didn't get a yellow card.

I'm disappointed all of Kane, Alli & Vertonghen aren't banned from next Saturday's game though. Kane & Alli should have walked and Vertonghen should have got his 5th yellow for the penalty in yesterday's game at Man City.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:44 pm

To be honest it's hard to argue anything but a red card for this. So as much as i don't want this to happen a retrospective ban would be a fair outcome.

However - the inconsistency and stupid rules around getting yellow cards is completely unfair. Kane and Ali should have both been reds. My own view is that Murray should be done as I think he cheated for the penalty - but he won't be because opinion is divided.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:48 pm

Nothing to right home about with Tarks playful jab. It certainly does not warrent a ban, yellow card at the most

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:49 pm

The point I made earlier in saying that BFC should fine and drop him for a game (because of the elbow) is, firstly, we, or rather SD, likes to think of this club having high standards and so he should act according to them, regardless of what other clubs or the FA do.

Secondly, although as a secondary outcome, I would think if the FA see that BFC is serious in trying to prevent this sort of thing, it may act more leniently on us, or even not at all.

To repeat, there is absolutely no excuse for what Tarkowski did. He's not even got the excuse Andy Carroll might have used that he was going for the ball. The elbow was pure malice. I don't want anyone in a Burnley shirt doing that.

By the way, what was the problem with Tarkowski's wrist during the game? Did that have anything to do with the elbow incident?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:54 pm

Burnley banning Tarks themselves would be downright naive and stupid.
This isn't Sunday school - and we ain't Mother Teresa.

We've been on the end of some crap refereeing decisions so if we get a bit of luck and escape a ban then we take that and move on. SD would hopefully just have a word with Tarks and say he has got away with one there and he needs to learn for the future - even fine him internally.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:01 pm

Incidentally, in the Alli incident, I thought he was attempting to put his foot on the ball to roll it away although he did catch de Bruyne and so it's a red.

The Kane incident was a red too but the ref doesn't appear to have seen it properly is he had his back to the play and was too close. All he saw was a bit of the incident and Sterling rolling about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZR0QVL3BHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 pm

TVC15 wrote:Burnley banning Tarks themselves would be downright naive and stupid.
This isn't Sunday school - and we ain't Mother Teresa.

We have principles but only when it suits us?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:10 pm

Hipper wrote:We have principles but only when it suits us?

That's not what I'm saying as you well know.
We do have principles - clearly - but it's up to the authorities to ban players for incidents on the pitch...not us.

No other manager or club would do this so us doing it would not change a thing and the only people who would lose out would be Burnley.

The fact that we have a manager who has been more vocal about cheating and diving is good. The fact that our manager instils integrity and honesty in our team is also good. What we do as a club is more than most (if not all) clubs - but let's not be stupid about it eh.....nothing at all to gain

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:21 pm

Murray clearly locked his leg through Tarks's and threw himself forward.He was so embarrassed that he ballooned the dodgy penalty.
As for a ban that cheat who came whose name me and Sean have problems with should have a retrospective ban for gross simulation

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:23 pm

If someone back heeled me in the nuts then threw himself down to cheat a penalty, he would be very lucky to get away with just an elbow to the stomach.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:30 pm

Hipper wrote:We have principles but only when it suits us?

So where does it end? We rename ourselves Burnley Corinthians and start deliberately missing penalties???

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:43 pm

Hipper wrote:We have principles but only when it suits us?

Don’t be daft. We play to the whistle and accept referees decisions. If he occasionally gets it wrong in our favour then we count ourselves lucky and move on, same as we move on if it goes against us. Are you suggesting we should have fessed up when Vokes handled and the ref gave us a penalty against Swansea or the same player controlled it with his hand before scoring against Leicester?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:50 pm

Murray got some of his own. Ref understood that.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:25 am

the problem with banning him here is that if you watch the penalty area at corners, these sort of little elbows go on all the time.

from what i've seen there isn't enough evidence to take action here. the replays aren't clear enough to show contact - the only close ups i've seen only show his arm from below the shoulder.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:44 pm

It was a v possible sending off in the box maybe a yellow if lucky out in more open play . It was just a decent dig Murray went down like he’d been shot with an elephant gun .Silly from Tarka but double cheating from Brighton even with that late preposterous dive from their sub? I think . I reckon he’ll get a 1 match ban possibly 2 which we seriously not need in the big games

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:09 pm

It would be a 3 game ban or nothing at all wouldn’t it?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:12 pm

They have just announced that Lanzini is charged, so if Tarks is going to get charged it will be soon I think.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:18 pm

If the ref had seen the elbow it would have been a red. You cannot do that type of thing. I hope he doesn't get a ban but I fear he will.

I sense that some Burnley fans lack any objectivity when it comes to these types of decisions.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:37 pm

I can understand if Tarks is charged, which would be a huge blow for Huddersfield in particular, a very winnable game.

I do though feel aggrieved with all the other stuff that is inconsistent. We conceded a penalty to a clear piece of cheating (foot placed between Tark’s legs on purpose), we had a goal disallowed marginally for offside that was less offside than the Sterling one allowed for City on Saturday (I thought Wood was onside because the guy on the ground had his foot closer to the goal, but I hear some say it was Arfield offside, haven’t seen it again since) . Kane, Alli and Vertonghen get to play against us. Etc etc etc.

The Kane one is particularly annoying because Pawson (?) was in totally the wrong position, far too close to the play, and ended up looking in the other direction. The rule that because he guessed and booked him means the FA cannot intervene, needs to be changed. If Tarks is banned, Kane should be too.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:47 pm

Did FIFA change the law so that all elbows are red ? - I know they wanted to earlier this year but not sure if it was changed.

Elbow to the face I think is red.

Elbow to the body depends on whether it's careless, reckless or with excessive force.

If an elbow is classed as a strike at an opponent.

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
holds an opponent
impedes an opponent with contact
spits at an opponent

So according to the laws it should have been a penalty, but only red if deemed as with excessive force.

clerkenwell.claret · Post by **clerkenwell.claret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:12 pm

I imagine that Dyche will fine Tarks for a stupid action that could adversely impact the club.

Perhaps his match fee?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:30 pm

No idea why there is so much debate about this. He elbowed him and deliberatly did it to hurt him, probably aggrieved about the penalty decision. He will get a ban and he will learn and be straight back into the team after the three matches. It's violent conduct and was stupid by him as if the ref saw he could have given away another penalty.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Whats happened about their sub for his diving.?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:35 pm

KefkaClaret wrote:No idea why there is so much debate about this. He elbowed him and deliberatly did it to hurt him, probably aggrieved about the penalty decision. He will get a ban and he will learn and be straight back into the team after the three matches. It's violent conduct and was stupid by him as if the ref saw he could have given away another penalty.

If he did it to hurt him it would of been to the face. He's reacted to get Murray away from him.

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:35 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Whats happened about their sub for his diving.?

Nothing can be brought against him as no penalty was given for the incident.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:38 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Whats happened about their sub for his diving.?

Dealt with at the time. Referee saw it, gave nothing, didn't bother carding him. He can only be punished if the ref falls for it and gives a pen.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:47 pm

It was a foolish act and what looked like a deliberate action by Tarkowski.
Shows he can lose it.
Which, if it leads to a ban will harm the team/club especially if he's not available for 2/3 matches.

Even if he does get away with it then hopefully he'll have learnt a lesson
and breathe a sigh of relief.

simonclaret · Post by **simonclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Dealt with at the time. Referee saw it, gave nothing, didn't bother carding him. He can only be punished if the ref falls for it and gives a pen.

This is the real problem with what they've brought in for diving. The dive to try and win another penalty was just as bad as Lanzini. Just because the ref fell for it in one game why does the same offence in a different game not get the same punishment? It's not discouraging diving by having a potential 2 game ban but only if you benefit from it. The benefit could well lead to undeserved points which many managers will happily trade for losing someone for 2 games. Ill thought through.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:58 pm

simonclaret wrote:Just because the ref fell for it in one game why does the same offence in a different game not get the same punishment?

The offence is deceiving a match official and the Brighton player didn't.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:02 pm

Bump

Perhaps we could request a 5 game ban for what was nothing more than a dig in the ribs?

How about that chaps?

simonclaret · Post by **simonclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:05 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The offence is deceiving a match official and the Brighton player didn't.

It's time the offence became 'attempting to deceive a match official'. Retrospective punishment shouldn't depend on whether the referee saw an incident.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:08 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The offence is deceiving a match official and the Brighton player didn't.

I didn't realise that either. I wondered why so many dives had been ignored. Seems an odd rule if they actually want to stop it.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:10 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Dealt with at the time. Referee saw it, gave nothing, didn't bother carding him. He can only be punished if the ref falls for it and gives a pen.

Which was the more outrageous dive? The Brighton player's one or the one where the Huddersfield winger actually did get carded?

Gnulty · Post by **Gnulty** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:15 pm

Must admit I did the same foolish thing in a junior match many moons ago. I was frustrated by this other player, but it still "haunts" me to this day! Don't do it again James!. It will ruin your life, I tell You!

Cooperclaret · Post by **Cooperclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:22 pm

I just can not believe this thread. It looks like most will be disappointed on here if he does not get a ban !

What will you do if he doesn't ? Boo him against Spurs ?

The lad is a colossus at the back for us and as also been on the wrong end of some dodgy decisions recently (Arsenal). It was a bit of a dig - nothing more. Being very harsh a yellow at the very least.

Murray simply cheated for the pen and should be banned in my opinion.

No doubt the ban Police will be on now to correct me.

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:25 pm

Gnulty wrote:Must admit I did the same foolish thing in a junior match many moons ago. I was frustrated by this other player, but it still "haunts" me to this day! Don't do it again James!. It will ruin your life, I tell You!

Get help, reach out, speak to someone soon.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:28 pm

Rowls wrote:Bump

Perhaps we could request a 5 game ban for what was nothing more than a dig in the ribs?

How about that chaps?

Don`t be silly Rowls - what exactly are you saying ?
You are allowed to "dig" (or "elbow" depending on whether our players do it or not) someone in the ribs ?

Nobody is saying they agree with the rule and we all know that football has gone soft but you cannot seriously be saying that you are allowed to do that. Would it only be a sending off if Tarks elbowed him in the face ? How about if he gave him a "dig" in the groin ?

What was Tarks doing then ?....playful wrestling ?

There is now way the officials could have seen the incident or else he would have as a minimum booked Tarks for it....or booked Murray for simulation. But in all probability it would have been a straight red for Tarks.

You cannot compare this to pushing and shoving in the area at a corner either. This was an off the ball incident where there was no other players around them and the ball was nowhere near them. Tarks was stupid.

Gnulty · Post by **Gnulty** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:37 pm

Too late for me Bertie...Tarks will be ok. The gaffer will sort it out...

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:37 pm

Cooperclaret wrote:I just can not believe this thread. It looks like most will be disappointed on here if he does not get a ban !

Where do you get that idea from?

Just because some people are saying he deserves a ban it doesn't mean they want him to get one.

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:44 pm

Guich wrote:Mendy is a successful cheat
Ramsay is a successful cheat
Richarleson is an unsuccessful cheat
Murray is an unsuccessful cheat.

The officials aren't up to stopping this filth in the game. The Premier League and FA are spineless.

Tarks has been the victim twice recently. He shouldn't have, but he took the law into his own hands and I'm proud of him.

Murray got exactly what he deserved.

Spot on. I would have headbutted the cheating tawt in my day!

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 pm

If the offence is for trying to deceive a match official, then surely it is Murray who needs banning.

1. Blatantly hooked is own leg up and back through Tarks to get a penalty.
2. Went down crying like a sack of spuds for a little tap in the ribs.

If Murray had stood on his feet and just rubbed his ribs (which was the correct reaction for what happened) would you be claiming Tarks needed a 3 game ban?

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 pm

TVC15 wrote:Don`t be silly Rowls - what exactly are you saying ?
You are allowed to "dig" (or "elbow" depending on whether our players do it or not) someone in the ribs ?

Nobody is saying they agree with the rule and we all know that football has gone soft but you cannot seriously be saying that you are allowed to do that. Would it only be a sending off if Tarks elbowed him in the face ? How about if he gave him a "dig" in the groin ?

What was Tarks doing then ?....playful wrestling ?

There is now way the officials could have seen the incident or else he would have as a minimum booked Tarks for it....or booked Murray for simulation. But in all probability it would have been a straight red for Tarks.

You cannot compare this to pushing and shoving in the area at a corner either. This was an off the ball incident where there was no other players around them and the ball was nowhere near them. Tarks was stupid.

The only thing is that it is still a referee's discretion thing so different refs would do different things: Red, yellow, just a penalty, because even if the ref "saw it" he might still not have given anything. We know that refs "seeing an incident" is not the same as them having video footage to scrutinize. Whereas if they don't see an incident then the panel can have as much video footage as they like.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 pm

I would have thought that he would have been charged by now if he was going to be since Lanzini has been charged earlier today.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:35 pm

No news is good news on this. With Lanzini being sanctioned it may be that Tarkowski will get away with it. I really hate violence in any sphere of life, but at the same time, for some reason, Glen Murray's cheating offends me more than Tarkowski's elbow in the ribs. Not just because I support Burnley; we have always had bits of argy-bargy on the field, but all this cheating, diving, writhing and complaining really puts me off modern football. I can't stand the mainly continental tendency for players to scream every time they get fouled or even tackled. There's no excuse for it. In any profession, lying and cheating is unacceptable (even for solicitors, journalists, politicians and estate agents).

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:37 pm

How many ribs were broken?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:41 pm

Yes but its extremely unlikely the referee or linesman did see anything as they would have had to do something. The very least he would have done is gone over to both players and talked to them.

Since there was also clearly contact an unlikely scenario would have been the referee punishing Murray for exaggerating...when was the last time we saw a referee do that ?

I completely agree there is too much cheating and yes give Murray a good kicking in the tunnel or after the game but during it he just needed to keep calm and not give the referee a decision to make (or now the panel)