Ashes lost.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:30 am

Typical British media reaction to Ashes defeat. Blame the captain, is the captaincy too much for Root, should he stick to batting.
We lost the Ashes because half a dozen of that side are barely average and Cook, Broad and Jimmy have their best days behind them.
We are in a re-building period. Live with it.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:57 am

About right there.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:05 am

They need a Dyche in to sort out the selection and management.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:07 am

The whole team looked beaten before they left for down under. They only know one way to play, no application, no digging in. A complete shower.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:08 am

Any chance we had was lost in a Bristol back street.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:10 am

Ho hum!

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:12 am

I disagree about Jimmy he's probably got more wickets in Australia than he had ever done already and brilliant on home soil.
The selectors need to resign en masse.
The batsman have let us down not making 300 in far too many innings in a country you need to make 450/500 regular.
Ali has to be dropped and Cook if we have another opener out there. Give the younger lads a chance out there now the ashes have gone.

Shame they'll be another 25k English fans flying out when the series has gone.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:21 am

I said on the other thread I think there’s a lot of underserved stick going Root’s way. I think he’s done ok with the tools he’s been provided with. He’s tried to mix things up as best he can. It was a poor decision in the second test at the toss but he had his reasons.

Australia are an average side but their best player cane through for them in style. Ours has failed but if that’s down to form or being captain I’m not sure.

The management team however seem a strange bunch. They don’t seem to have a long term plan. The amount of changes in the past 12 months leading up to an Ashes series has been bizarre.
The Stokes thing was strange, dropping him but then picking him for the one dayers just doesn’t add up.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:22 am

Root proved himself to be just an ordinary Joe whilst Steve Smith and the Aussies gave us a good pommelling (or should that be pummelling).

25K England fans going out for the final two tests can do what the England players do best - celebrate Christmas and New Year down at the bar.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:25 am

Root far too nice and one of the lads to be a captain

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:30 am

call-up Ashley for the 4th test!

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:38 am

No doubt we should have performed better as individuals but this Aussie side is better than average that some would have you believe. They currently have one of if not the best batsman in world cricket an off spinner with over 60 wickets in the calendar year and pace attack tailor made for the conditions.

I can’t get away from the fact this side of ours (with Stokes) lost home test matches to the West Indies and one to half a South Africa side. The alarm bells were ringing then for me and I pretty much expected this.

The approach needs to change and we need to encourage the likes of Hales to go out and bat like Warner who isn’t scared of failure and the games where it goes his way he wins you the test match in two sessions.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:39 am

claretblue wrote:call-up Ashley for the 4th test!

He’s Austrian !

BigChaCha · Post by **BigChaCha** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:40 am

I started to put big money on Australia as soon as the Stoke news broke and got very good odds so I'm a lot wealthier today

Root looks a far more natural captain than Cook to me so I'd stick with him and add some youth to the team. I like Stoneman & Malan but they are 30 years old so by the time they settle in they will fall off a cliff form wise like all other England players have done at around 32 years of age.

The last few times Australia have come to England they have been asking why can't they swing or especially reverse swing the bowl like the England bowlers! Losing away is nothing new. Not many countries win away and you really need to be on top of your game to stand a chance so there is no need to panic.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am

Its OK I've found them, but we have to be quick - this woman wants to eat them...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... inner.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:48 am

piston broke wrote:Typical British media reaction to Ashes defeat. Blame the captain, is the captaincy too much for Root, should he stick to batting.
We lost the Ashes because half a dozen of that side are barely average and Cook, Broad and Jimmy have their best days behind them.
We are in a re-building period. Live with it.

Certainly don't agree with that assessment. Cook has had a difficult time while Broad and Anderson are never suited to Australian conditions. We've been beaten because their best players, bat and ball, have performed unbelievably well while we have too many players not good enough and we saw that long before we boarded the flight to Australia. OK, Jimmy's best days are probably behind him but that will always be the case for any opening bowler who has reached 35. Having said that, by the time he comes home from this tour he will have become the fifth highest wicket taker ever in test cricket.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:55 am

Jimmy has 12 wickets at 25s in this series. Jimmy has improved drastically as he has got older in his economy rates.

Root is getting a lot of stick for saying things like 'I'm proud of the way the lads battled' and 'We haven't been completely outplayed' to the media.

He would get far more respect and people might believe what he says if he just admitted the Aussies are better and we can't carry 7 or 8 players and still win.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:55 am

Too much concentration on the one day games - and the money involved.

The separation between 'test' players and One Day' players meant we were always on the back foot as we just don't have our best cricketers on the pitch

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am

It was lost before a bat was thrown!

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:12 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Its OK I've found them, but we have to be quick - this woman wants to eat them...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... inner.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand that she has suffered double trauma, but she needs real help, and soon, before mum runs out.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:22 am

The OP's assessment is correct - losing Stokes was a massive blow. Cook has been terrible, Root hasn't batted at all well (unlike his opposite number), Vince was typical Vince - good for 25 but then out looking like a club player, Moeen poor with bat and ball, Broad has shot his bolt and the rest of the quicks (Anderson apart) have looked like rabbits in the headlights.

Too many average players and the only positives really were Bairstow, Malan and Stoneman (Marginally) with the bat - aside from Jimmy the rest of the bowling has been abysmal.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:27 am

We need to get over our obsession with picking bits and pieces cricketers like Moeen Ali who can bowl a bit and bat a bit but when push comes to shove isn't good enough at either.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:29 pm

Outclassed! I lost interest after we lost the 1st test as I realised a 5-0 whitewash was coming, men v boys

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Not actually a vintage Aussie team in terms of talent, but still too good for us, which is the most worrying thing!

Andreshotboots · Post by **Andreshotboots** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Jimmy has 12 wickets at 25s in this series. Jimmy has improved drastically as he has got older in his economy rates.

Root is getting a lot of stick for saying things like 'I'm proud of the way the lads battled' and 'We haven't been completely outplayed' to the media.

He would get far more respect and people might believe what he says if he just admitted the Aussies are better and we can't carry 7 or 8 players and still win.

Jimmy has 12 wickets but 9 of those have been taken when the game had already gone. 5 for in the second test when the Aussies decided to not make us follow on but already lead by 250, then 4 for in this game after Smith and marsh had put on hundreds. He didn't have a wicket until they'd scored masses. Stats mean nothing, it's all relative to when the wickets were taken in the games.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:59 pm

We have a real problem every time we go to Oz these days. Pitches and conditions generally don't swing or seam, certainly not to the extent they do in England, so you need genuine, raw pace or brilliant spin and we have neither. In English conditions Jimmy and broad are world class, but there they just look very pedestrian much of the time and as for the second string bowlers, they just resemble primary school kids making up the numbers on those pitches. It'll be 5-0 every series down under for the foreseeable future, but much closer over here.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:00 pm

Thought from day 1 that a 5-0 stuffing was the most likely outcome and I haven't seen anything since to alter that view. We know and have known for a long time that the pitches will be flat, quick and not suited to swing bowling. So the Aussies have bowlers who can sling down a 90mph + delivery on a regular basis. Why can't we develop genuinely quick bowlers? Surely it's bio mechanics and development of that will increase the speed of our bowlers. We also seem incapable of batting for any length of time. it doesn't seem to matter who the individuals are, our batting line up collapse with the regularity of a metronome. it's happened this series, it happened the last time we were in Australia and I dare say most other times before that. Do we go out there having practiced against 80mph deliveries and get taken by surprise when Starc and co sling a couple down at 95mph? The best chance we had was the day/night Adelaide game, won the toss and ridiculously chose to bowl first. WTF? For that, I question the captaincy of Root.

On we go to Melbourne, no doubt like lambs to the slaughter destined for the abattoir of another 5-0 hammering.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:06 pm

Andreshotboots wrote:Jimmy has 12 wickets but 9 of those have been taken when the game had already gone. 5 for in the second test when the Aussies decided to not make us follow on but already lead by 250, then 4 for in this game after Smith and marsh had put on hundreds. He didn't have a wicket until they'd scored masses. Stats mean nothing, it's all relative to when the wickets were taken in the games.

To say stats mean nothing is a bizarre statement. You can have an opinion on which wickets and runs mean more in context to the game but how else can you keep track of performance?
To only go at 25s for wickets and decent economy while the conceding so many runs speaks volumes.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:48 pm

I honestly think the Aussies are very respectful of Anderson based on his record and reputation. They're quite circumspect when facing him and then simply punish the other bowlers. Hence Jimmy won't come out of the tour as badly as some of the others in terms of his stats.

And on another note: We need to play the short quick ball far better, or better still NOT play the short quick ball at all! The Aussies constantly duck under and leave our short stuff (which isn't even that quick anyway) so we simply get knackered and they only really start playing it once they've got decent runs on the board. We on the other hand start fending it off or trying to hook and pull when it's actually flying miles over the stumps and if left alone would be totally harmless.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:56 pm

For Joe Root to claim in his post match press conference that "England had not been blown away in any of the Tests" beggars belief really.

He obviously thinks that losing by an innings and 41 runs is a close run affair.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:43 pm

kentonclaret wrote:For Joe Root to claim in his post match press conference that "England had not been blown away in any of the Tests" beggars belief really.

He obviously thinks that losing by an innings and 41 runs is a close run affair.

One Australian scored more than our entire 11 in the second innings. If that's not blown away i don't know what is.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:03 pm

Cook 14

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:15 pm

Soft players -like academy footballers. Not hardened pros. Aussies not most gifted by tough.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:21 pm

"Ashes lost"

No he didn't...

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:36 am

Thank chuff I didn’t get BT Sport to watch that pish.......

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