Tarkowski's Hand

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Sorry about new thread, but CharlieinNewMexico asked so here it is:
I wondered why Tarkowski flipped, I may have found the answer.
As the penalty is taken Tarks is looking down at his left hand. Injured in the penalty fall?
35.55: Tarks signals to bench he needs a bandage/dressing on his left hand.
36.17: Tarks still looking at his left hand.
I assume sly sneaky b**stard Murray has spotted this.
36.25 Murray runs towards Tarks and grabs Tarks' left hand. (why?)
Tarks re-acts and appears to elbow him in the ribs.
(Edit) In fact just checking and Tarks appears with bandage on at start of 2nd half.
Self-defence/severe provocation. q.e.d.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:46 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:Sorry about new thread, but CharlieinNewMexico asked so here it is:
I wondered why Tarkowski flipped, I may have found the answer.
As the penalty is taken Tarks is looking down at his left hand. Injured in the penalty fall?
35.55: Tarks signals to bench he needs a bandage/dressing on his left hand.
36.17: Tarks still looking at his left hand.
I assume sly sneaky b**stard Murray has spotted this.
36.25 Murray runs towards Tarks and grabs Tarks' left hand. (why?)
Tarks re-acts and appears to elbow him in the ribs.
Self-defence/severe provocation. q.e.d.

Nice one.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:48 pm

just edited. Tarks appears with bandage at start of 2nd half.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:50 pm

In fact footage from first half at 41.55 shows Tarks receiving bandage off the pitch and he is clearly in some pain.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:50 pm

Whatever. He clearly elbowed the chap and he's been done for it.

We really need to get over it and give our Kevin some love.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:54 pm

B.O.T. Has he been done for it?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:58 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Whatever. He clearly elbowed the chap and he's been done for it.

We really need to get over it and give our Kevin some love.

If there’s mitigating circumstances then it’s right to highlight them

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:02 pm

Interesting. From the far end of the stadium: (1) I saw a Brighton player on the ground - too far away to know where he'd fallen or why he'd fallen; (2) later, I saw Tarks go to the edge of the field and get a bandage put on his hand.

Of course, after the game, I learn that it was Murray on the ground and that Tarks had nudged him with his elbow.

If all these events are connected, is this mitigation for Tarks?

EDIT: Rick got to similar conclusion before I did.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:06 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:If there’s mitigating circumstances then it’s right to highlight them

Two wrongs make a right?

Is that the defence?

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:06 pm

If you have clarets player you can look for yourselves.
The whole of the 1st and 2nd halves have become available today.
The times I have given are the times in the top left of the footage, i.e. game time.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:12 pm

B.O.T.
You really want him banned don't you?
I would hope SD has asked him why he reacted like that.
I would hope Tarks has told the manager why.
It is mitigating circumstances and a pro footballer, like the cheating Murray
will have seen Tarks indicating to the bench he needs treatment to his left wrist.
Murray will then have thought, I am grabbing that wrist asap. Sure enough within 30 secs he has!
If somebody grabs your sprained? wrist do you just smile B.O.T.?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:13 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:If you have clarets player you can look for yourselves.
The whole of the 1st and 2nd halves have become available today.
The times I have given are the times in the top left of the footage, i.e. game time.

Maybe just maybe this will expose the widespread cheating in the game.maybe!

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:14 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Two wrongs make a right?

Is that the defence?

You clearly don’t understand the phrase “mitigating circumstances” do you? It is not saying 2 wrongs make a right, it means that if Tarks was experiencing pain from an injury to his hand his reaction, whilst in the context of a football match may be wrong, but in life may have been an involuntarily reaction - I.e. he actually couldn’t help himself

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:19 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:B.O.T.
You really want him banned don't you?

I can only answer that stupid question in the most sarky manner I can..........

Yes, I want our best performing centre back who's played every minute of every game this season, banning.

It's probably something to do with Brexit and him having a Polish surname.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:24 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:You clearly don’t understand the phrase “mitigating circumstances” do you? It is not saying 2 wrongs make a right, it means that if Tarks was experiencing pain from an injury to his hand his reaction, whilst in the context of a football match may be wrong, but in life may have been an involuntarily reaction - I.e. he actually couldn’t help himself

Come on Rick, behave now.

He's not a child you know.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:28 pm

A good solicitor would have this thrown out when showing evidence the referee clearly seen the incident on the day.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm

And three Burnley players are pointing it out.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:32 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
A good solicitor would have this thrown out when showing evidence the referee clearly seen the incident on the day.

If your watching Dylan.....

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:39 pm

Well the ref saw it and thought nothing of it.

Free the Tarky one!

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:39 pm

If this is indeed the case, and I've no reason to disbelieve the OP, then I am willing to change my stance on this one and admit that had this had been me in Tarkowskis position I would have used any force necessary to get the little **** off my injured hand as a natural reaction. Therefore I don't believe this is violent conduct as first thought.

AshevilleNCClaret · Post by **AshevilleNCClaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:42 pm

I agree Murray initiated contact on the penalty.
I think Murray twisted Tark's hand before the elbow...

However, all strikers, to some extent, try to get any advantage. Tarks just needs to keep his cool.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:02 pm

Well spotted, 2 Bee Holed.

Re-looking at the film on Sky the ref is looking at the throw-in so I doubt he saw it. The Burnley players are pointing at Knockeart who has just gone on a run unaccompanied to try and get the ball from the throw-in.

You would think that perhaps a reasonable approach would be for the panel to ask for Murray's views. Whilst most sensible people will see some mitigating circumstances for Tarkowski I can't see it changing anything. He'll just have to chalk it up to a lesson learnt and see if he can get some sort of discreet revenge in the fixture at Turf Moor!

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:04 pm

Did everybody forget that Ashley Barnes plays for us?

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:12 pm

: Screenshot (11).png (1.55 MiB) Viewed 5840 times

While the ref is looking at the throw in, I'm just going to grab this guy's sprained wrist.
30 secs earlier he was telling his bench he needed a bandage.
Let's see how much it is really hurting him. Let's hope he reacts badly and gives away another penalty.
This will make up for the absolute a** I have just made of myself by ballooning the last one out of the stadium.

Can anyone else think why he is looking at Tarks and not the ball? As you can see he is about to grab his wrist.

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:19 pm

If you look carefully, there is a second shooter by the fence on the grassy knoll.
Note how Murrays head snaps back and to the right.Back and to the right.

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:26 pm

If the Ref hasn't seen that, how can he ever referee a match?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:31 pm

grapidianclaret wrote:If you look carefully, there is a second shooter by the fence on the grassy knoll.
Note how Murrays head snaps back and to the right.Back and to the right.

It's back and to the left

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:33 pm

"Where where you when Tarkowski had his hand grabbed?" will be up there with the day Diana died.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:36 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Well the ref saw it and thought nothing of it.

Free the Tarky one!

The referee will have confirmed to the FA that he didn't see the incident. He's contacted first for his views and a charge only comes if the referee hasn't seen it.

But as someone posted further up the thread, it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, he elbowed Murray and has been caught on camera.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:47 pm

Murray is nothing more than a cheating little turd then in my eyes. Always thought he was classier than that. Dreadful dice for the pen, and dodgy gamesmanship to get another pro sent.

Tosser.

Mitigation to get the ban reduced to one?

RalphCoatesComb · Post by **RalphCoatesComb** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm

I love a good "Who done it"

I wonder what kind of reception Murray's gonna get at t'Turf

I do hope that Deano will be back by then

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:33 pm

Star Wars:Episode 9 `Tarkowski`s Hand`. I LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:05 am

This whole thread is embarrassing

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:06 am

Radio Lancashire reckoned the treatment on his hand was for a dislocated finger. Anyone know if they were right?

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:07 am

"The Hand Of Tarkowski" starring Vincent Price

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:15 am

From this thread you can really see who has and who hasn't played sport to any sort of level...

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:16 am

Looks to me that the players are pointing to the Brighton player who is clear in the area to receive the throw-in.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:31 am

Thanks 2BH for your very fine research, if not necessarily appreciated by others. We get the games live here and there was a split second of 'kerfuffle' caught on cam before Elbowgate, which, of course, didn't get highlighted in replays.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:03 am

A fellow Claret (Charlie in New Mexico) asked what had led to the incident.
So I tried to help him by coming up with a theory.
It does not excuse his apparent elbow, but it might go some way to explaining his actions.
I would not describe Tarks as a nasty pro. More a hard but fair one.
So I was just as intrigued as CinNM was as to possible reasons.
Tarks was grabbed in a painful area and needed to break free to get the runner, he has then
apparently used too much force to break free. Grabbing Tarks, by the way is also an offence.
What he should learn from this, is that he should have received the treatment at the time of the penalty.
Later signalling to the bench shows opposition players were the injury is.
I also hope he learns to keep his elbows to himself.
I am sorry some posters feel embarrassed about this thread.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:28 am

If he gets banned, then so be it, but this changes my whole perspective on the situation if correct. If anyone grabbed my recently dislocated finger, knowingly and with intent, in a game, to try and bugger me up even more, I'd have probably done the same. This isn't Claret tinted specs talk, I'd have done it if I was a barsteward playing against Jimmy Mac and he did the same as Murray.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:31 am

Why are we still going on about this?

Some Burnley fans really have a complex about the world being against us. The FA hate us, MOTD hate us because they put us last, refs hate us. It’s a bit classless.

We need to accept it and get over it.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:35 am

Nobody's "going on about it" Inchy. It's just being pointed out, that's all. Somewhat different

Masham Ale · Post by **Masham Ale** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:45 am

I thought to myself at the time that something must have happened to rile Tarks. He's not seemed a hot head type of player to me at all. Well spotted 2BH. Whilst the reaction looks bad you can understand why it might have happened and I agree with RM, it could have been an almost involuntary or instinctive reaction. I hope such an explanation has been given and common sense prevails and the cheating two hat gets punished instead.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:48 am

Inchy wrote:Why are we still going on about this?

Some Burnley fans really have a complex about the world being against us. The FA hate us, MOTD hate us because they put us last, refs hate us. It’s a bit classless.

We need to accept it and get over it.

Im genuinely not one of the people who has a victim complex about supposed dark forces. I thought this thread was a really interesting thing to point out, it never entered my mind that what Tarkowski did was anything other than petulance over the Murray penalty incident. Providing what Charlie in new mehico says is true, I have sympathy with Tarks, where before, I didn't. Nothing to do with ickle ol' Burnley.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:01 am

CiNM asked, so I did a quick 20 mins investigation and found something which may help to explain his actions.
So I posted it. I am sorry if you think this is 'going on about it'.
Up until last night and before I investigated, I also just thought 'Tarks had been a very naughty boy'.
Some of the comments about him letting the Club, his team and the fans down have been insulting.
Ask yourself, is he that type of player, to deliberately maliciously elbow somebody?
Inchy, he has been charged. As yet there has been no trial, no verdict and no sentence.
Surely we can discuss it until all those 4 things have happened?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:06 am

4:20 wrote:Im genuinely not one of the people who has a victim complex about supposed dark forces. I thought this thread was a really interesting thing to point out, it never entered my mind that what Tarkowski did was anything other than petulance over the Murray penalty incident. Providing what Charlie in new mehico says is true, I have sympathy with Tarks, where before, I didn't. Nothing to do with ickle ol' Burnley.

I have zero sympathy for Tarks. Strikers and defenders have partaken in gamesmanship since the beginning of time. Little nips at the back of the arms, standing on toes etc. It still goes on. The winner is the one who sucks the other playing into doing something stupid and obvious. Tarks isn’t wet behind the ears. He will have experienced this throughout his career. More so because he was very young when starting for Oldham in the lower leagues

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:09 am

Also, I wish the FA would get a move on with any decision, it's now Wednesday. Preparation and all that..

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:13 am

2 Bee Holed wrote:CiNM asked, so I did a quick 20 mins investigation and found something which may help to explain his actions.
So I posted it. I am sorry if you think this is 'going on about it'.
Up until last night and before I investigated, I also just thought 'Tarks had been a very naughty boy'.
Some of the comments about him letting the Club, his team and the fans down have been insulting.
Ask yourself, is he that type of player, to deliberately maliciously elbow somebody?
Inchy, he has been charged. As yet there has been no trial, no verdict and no sentence.
Surely we can discuss it until all those 4 things have happened?

We don’t need to understand his actions. They are inexcusable. Is he the type of player to deliberately and maliciously elbow someone? Yeah because he has and I bet he’s probably done it before in the lower leagues and gotten away with it. He’s a CB

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:13 am

Inchy wrote:I have zero sympathy for Tarks. Strikers and defenders have partaken in gamesmanship since the beginning of time. Little nips at the back of the arms, standing on toes etc. It still goes on. The winner is the one who sucks the other playing into doing something stupid and obvious. Tarks isn’t wet behind the ears. He will have experienced this throughout his career. More so because he was very young when starting for Oldham in the lower leagues

In that case, all teams should be targeting Peter Cechs head to get under his skin. Its only gamesmanship after all.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:18 am

Inchy wrote:We don’t need to understand his actions. They are inexcusable. Is he the type of player to deliberately and maliciously elbow someone? Yeah because he has and I bet he’s probably done it before in the lower leagues and gotten away with it. He’s a CB

Of course, you have the experience to say that as you have had a dislocated finger grabbed during a Premier League game... No...? oh in that case then, I think that the possibility that this did happen does offer some mitigation as to his actions, so it is excusable.