Vokes' Goal!

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Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:18 pm

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The figure in black bottom right hand corner of the bottom screenshot is the linesman....trying to catch up with play!
Opinions please....I have mine. :x :x :x
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Did Vokes score (offside). Sorry I don't know what went on as I didn't watch the match and it wasn't on any highlights

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by northeastclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:37 pm

Another linesman cock up. I have never known a season like it ,where we have been punished with so many bad and close decisions, whilst I cant think of one in our favour.

Whereas last season we got the goal against Leicester off Vokes's arm.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by northeastclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:39 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:Did Vokes score (offside). Sorry I don't know what went on as I didn't watch the match and it wasn't on any highlights
He put the ball in the net but was booked for it, whistle had gone so became time wasting.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by jtv » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:41 pm

My first impression watching on TV was that Sam was on-side.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by clarethomer » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:44 pm

pretty sure their 2nd goal had handball in the lead up
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:55 pm

and to be fair Pogba stopped the second he saw the linesman put his flag up - no chance Sam would have outpaced him

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Claretnick » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:07 pm

I see the lino is well up with play. He is looking from behind the players so how could he make that decision?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Pogba should not have stopped, you play to the whistle.
As per Bournemouth v West Ham yesterday, what was the excuse/reason?
"The linesman putting his flag up is just an indication to the referee." That's all.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:09 pm

Interesting that this wasn't covered on MOTD.
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Shore claret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:12 pm

Not covered on the sky extended highlights either

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by dibraidio » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:12 pm

We've had several disallowed goals in recent weeks that haven't been shown on MOTD.
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by tim_noone » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:15 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:Interesting that this wasn't covered on MOTD.
But not surprising ..

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:18 pm

What is Jose doing outside his box?
Going to tackle Barnes himself?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:22 pm

Claretnick wrote:I see the lino is well up with play. He is looking from behind the players so how could he make that decision?
That's easy to answer.
He guessed, plus it is an unwritten Premier League rule that smaller clubs are not allowed to go 3-1 up
whilst playing at Old Trafford with 12 mins left. :lol:
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Claretnick » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:47 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:That's easy to answer.
He guessed, plus it is an unwritten Premier League rule that smaller clubs are not allowed to go 3-1 up
whilst playing at Old Trafford with 12 mins left. :lol:
Yes silly me I forgot about the unwritten Premier League rule book ;)

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:54 pm

Re Mourinho outside the box. There was a play in the match where the ball was clearly out for a Burnley throw and the liner never put his flag up. The only reason I could think that he didn't give it was Mourinho was on the touchline blocking his view. Shouldn't that carry a punishment?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:59 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Re Mourinho outside the box. There was a play in the match where the ball was clearly out for a Burnley throw and the liner never put his flag up. The only reason I could think that he didn't give it was Mourinho was on the touchline blocking his view. Shouldn't that carry a punishment?
Not only that, he is blocking Dyche's view of the offside.
Which is a pity, because Dyche is more up with play than the lino. :lol:

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by KRBFC » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:17 pm

Looks offside on the 3rd pic, his feet are level but his nose is off. Either way, how exactly was it a disallowed goal? everybody stopped playing 30 seconds before Vokes put the ball in the net :lol:

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by LordBob » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:05 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:Interesting that this wasn't covered on MOTD.
Wonder why !!!

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:43 pm

KRBFC wrote:Looks offside on the 3rd pic, his feet are level but his nose is off. Either way, how exactly was it a disallowed goal? everybody stopped playing 30 seconds before Vokes put the ball in the net :lol:
Were you there? Did you see it down the line like I did? Pogba stopped because he was beat and saw the flag from the assistant, Vokes played on, and the whistle came only about half a second to a second before he lobbed De Gea.

Thanks for the screenshots it proves what I and all the Utd fans alongside me knew at the time - he was onside.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by KRBFC » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:50 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Were you there? Did you see it down the line like I did? Pogba stopped because he was beat and saw the flag from the assistant, Vokes played on, and the whistle came only about half a second to a second before he lobbed De Gea.

Thanks for the screenshots it proves what I and all the Utd fans alongside me knew at the time - he was onside.
I'm saying from the third screenshot his feet look level but his head looks offside, it's hard to tell from that angle though. No I wasn't running the line at Old Trafford.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:54 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm saying from the third screenshot his feet look level but his head looks offside, it's hard to tell from that angle though. No I wasn't running the line at Old Trafford.
Fair enough, but note that the third screenshot is where the ball has already been played, that fraction before when it is actually played he is onside.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Belgianclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:55 pm

If I'm not mistaken, they did not show a replay on the live screening either

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by mybloodisclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:55 pm

I thought benefit of the doubt goes to the strikers in such situations.

Some of these decisions are going to cost us our Champs League spot, I'm sure of it.
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by KRBFC » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:58 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Fair enough, but note that the third screenshot is where the ball has already been played, that fraction before when it is actually played he is onside.
Which I can't comment on so didn't, the only evidence I have seen is the 3rd screenshot where he looks offside (but it's a dodgy angle), I doubt there will be a better angle available but feel free to post if you find it and we can conclusively say he was onside.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by lancastrian » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:15 pm

From the third picture the linesman is at least two yards behind play and he can't see the pass being made because he is facing the opposite way.
The old adage is that it is better to have a disputed offside decision than a disputed goal.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Walton » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:18 pm

From the third pic, which is the only one which matters, he is offside.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:20 pm

If his head was off, which I think it was when the ball was played, then it is tight but offside. Considering that we got two goals from free kicks awarded (albeit clear ones) I am reasonably happy, but no doubt in my mind the refs favour the top six generally.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:26 pm

I suggested in my report that he was onside. I also noted that he got a yellow card whereas when a United Player did likewise after a free kick was awarded no action was taken.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by lancastrian » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:30 pm

You are offside it there aren't two defenders between the attacker and the goal when the ball is played. The linesman does not have any idea when the ball is played because he is not looking. and neither does anyone else know because the third picture is inconclusive.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:42 pm

I'm liking the ideas here by the CM brains trust

- He's onside, when he isn't
- Its Vokes v Pogba
- then its Vokes v the best goalkeeper in the world

Apart from those three little bits, which I feel I have to bring up (though clearly there are not really relevant) its clear we should have won 3-1.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Rick_Muller » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:43 pm

lancastrian wrote:You are offside it there aren't two defenders between the attacker and the goal when the ball is played. The linesman does not have any idea when the ball is played because he is not looking. and neither does anyone else know because the third picture is inconclusive.
Inconclusive photo - perhaps, but when I saw it live from the SAF Northstand he looked clearly onside when the ball was played, as did the Utd fans - their response was one of disbelief and they thought it was funny that the ref blew for it

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:56 pm

Am I the only one who has been looking for the soapy tit **** in the tabs?
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:58 pm

His first tab is the fuzz.

He'll be watching you from now on!

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:His first tab is the fuzz.

He'll be watching you from now on!

It's okay, he's spelt Lancashire wrong. :)
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by IanMcL » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:03 pm

Great pity that officials have to give all 50-50 decisions in favour of the big 6. Life is hard enough for the rest, without that added disadvantage.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by skibum84 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:49 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:Interesting that this wasn't covered on MOTD.
Not even shown on half hour highlights on sky!

It amazed me MOTD didn’t show Vokes goal and Barnes penalty vs tottenham.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:58 pm

lancastrian wrote:You are offside it there aren't two defenders between the attacker and the goal when the ball is played. The linesman does not have any idea when the ball is played because he is not looking. and neither does anyone else know because the third picture is inconclusive.
?????
These are screenshots not pictures. The camera does follow the action you know.
After the third screenshot, Pogba soon gives up the chase and Vokes lobs the ball over their keeper into the net.

If you zoom in, I swear I can see the rear of Vokes' foot on the light green mowing line, whereas Pogba's foot is a good few inches into the dark green.
Vokes' head does appear to be fractionally in front of Pogba's, but I cannot capture the exact moment Barnes passes the ball.
What is for certain is that it's so marginal (if at all) that the flag should have stayed down. Particularly, when the lino must have known he was 2 yards behind play. There is no way he can call a 1cm decision unless he is exactly in line.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by KRBFC » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:03 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote:?????
These are screenshots not pictures. The camera does follow the action you know.
After the third screenshot, Pogba soon gives up the chase and Vokes lobs the ball over their keeper into the net.

If you zoom in, I swear I can see the rear of Vokes' foot on the light green mowing line, whereas Pogba's foot is a good few inches into the dark green.
Vokes' head does appear to be fractionally in front of Pogba's, but I cannot capture the exact moment Barnes passes the ball.
What is for certain is that it's so marginal (if at all) that the flag should have stayed down. Particularly, when the lino must have known he was 2 yards behind play. There is no way he can call a 1cm decision unless he is exactly in line.
The flag should've stayed down because he was only marginally offside? is that a new rule?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:10 pm

I'm starting to get quite worried now.

One thing we cannot become is like those down the M65 turned into when they were in the prem.

A lot of threads moaning about perceived injustices that don't actually exist could have come straight from roversmad or whatever its called.

Grow a pair, stop whinging at imaginary bias and just enjoy us being utterly brilliant while it lasts.
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:11 pm

KRBFC wrote:The flag should've stayed down because he was only marginally offside? is that a new rule?
eeer not a new rule, you have to be certain (or well beyond reasonable doubt) that the decision you are making is correct.
The lino has clearly guessed, from the angle he is at, he cannot be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. The benefit of doubt should be given to the attacking player.
However, I refuse to indulge you any further. Good night!
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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by starting_11 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:14 pm

Where do they even judge "offside" from?

It doesn't seem to be the feet as one would assume?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:17 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm starting to get quite worried now.

One thing we cannot become is like those down the M65 turned into when they were in the prem.

A lot of threads moaning about perceived injustices that don't actually exist could have come straight from roversmad or whatever its called.

Grow a pair, stop whinging at imaginary bias and just enjoy us being utterly brilliant while it lasts.
Who's whinging? Had this been covered on any of the highlights programme, I wouldn't have posted it.
Most people don't even know this happened, so I am educating them.
If you don't want to read it, don't read it.
Mine are quite big enough thanks, no need for a new pair.
Finally, how would you know what the threads looked like when they were in the Prem?

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:18 pm

starting_11 wrote:Where do they even judge "offside" from?

It doesn't seem to be the feet as one would assume?
A part of the body with which you can legally score a goal.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:34 pm

Not aimed at you specifically so don't take it so personally.

There has been far too many threads moaning about perceived bias, which when we are seventh and everyone talking about how brilliant it is for Burnley to be doing this well is more than a bit weird.

BTW I'm basing my Rovers guess from what they are like now, still moaning about bias a fair few years after a double relegation!

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by Commy » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 pm

Just watched it on game of the day and they didn't show a replay. What a surprise.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:30 am

Screenshot (20).png
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I cannot do any better. I am sure some of you could.
Foot making contact for pass. They look level to me.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by what_no_pies » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:15 am

If the linesman got it wrong then we must accept that these things happen. That there was no replay on the live footage is the really suspect part - they'd have had lines drawn on the pitch and everything if it was a United attack.

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Re: Vokes' Goal!

Post by lancastrian » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:31 am

What I was alluding to in my previous posts was that the linesman was out of position and guessed at the outcome which looked incorrect. A linesman should always try to keep in line with the last but one defender and any attacker appearing between the defender and usually the goalkeeper is offside. It is difficult when there are twenty players within the penalty or whether a player is active or not. In this case the linesman is hopelessly out of position as there is only one defender and he should have been in line with him. Also he should be facing the field of play not running down the touch line trying to recover his position.

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