Judgemental parents

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:31 am

JohnMac wrote:I heard a young lad in town yesterday making really stupid noises whilst running around.
Later the same lad, aged possibly no older than 4 was in the same shop as us. He was running around and even ran out of the shop at which point I shouted his Mother. Despite this she wasn't being negligent and was trying her best to keep an eye on him and his Sister whilst looking at clothes and shoes for them, not herself.
She went to pay for the goods and the young one ran off again and started kicking things around the shop floor.

How has society got like this? Is it food additives or diet or what? I can honestly say it never appeared the same in the 50's through to the 80's.

It's sounds to me he was letting off a bit of steam being a 4year old.and it never happened in the fifties and sixties because mum used the corner shop...and kids were mainly playing out letting off steam.....and making them strange noises john,remember japs and commandoes and cowboys and Indians ?? Strange but true.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:32 am

TVC15 wrote:So in summary you are not quite as an odious ignorant intolerant person as the poster that you agree with.

"Bi polar midgets" - f-uck me what kind of ignorant idiot talks like this ?

Bin Ont Turf, for one

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:36 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Junior school kids aren't allowed to walk to school by their parents, because of the massive upturn in middle-aged baby-boomer child predators in the 90s and 00s

there's me thinking it was all the traffic on the road.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:37 am

If it be your will wrote:Just remember, you have absolutely no idea of my personal circumstances.

And to be perfectly honest if those are your views I don't want to.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:38 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Junior school kids aren't allowed to walk to school by their parents, because of the massive upturn in middle-aged baby-boomer child predators in the 90s and 00s

The number of children killed by strangers in the sixties and seventies was higher than now. I suspect the number of assaults was, too.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:47 am

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:50 am

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:00 pm

If it be your will wrote:Not quite. In summary there are two opposing rights at play here. The right to take one's child wherever you wish, and the right to occasionally enjoy peace and quiet. Alas, both sides need to make concessions sometimes.

If you want to enjoy peace and quiet, then go somewhere where you have 100% control over that, such as your own home, or somewhere where there is a requirement for there to be peace and quiet, such as a library or quiet coach on a train.

You have no right to expect that when in a public place. Get over yourself.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:05 pm

I am in a similar parenting situation where I have a child who due to background can face challenges, is usually great out in public, but occasionally can find it hard to regulate and would thus spoil the experiences of others in, say, a restaurant.

It’s very simple - as a parent of a child with (though I don’t like the label) special needs, I have to be considerate to those around me. I simply ask that it is reciprocated. Children are all on a multi-layered spectrum, even ones who may be labelled as “normal”, and they are all different. Parents all need respecting as long as their deemed approach is done out of love and doesn’t break the law.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:09 pm

It is understandable that parents who have never had to deal with children with additional needs don’t really ‘get it’. But they shouldn’t judge parenting and should try to be more open minded about different situations that they might not be familiar with. Some additional needs are very complex and it’s worth remembering that the person it affects the most tends to be the child.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:23 pm

If it be your will wrote:Yet I'm the ignorant one here?

You have answered your own question.

You don't understand mental health problems, although you may seem to have some yourself?

In 3 hours we as a family will be going out for a very late lunch / early tea (sorry spades) to a normal pub on the outskirts of Accrington.

Our party will include myself, my wife, her dad who suffers from dementia and Alzheimer's. He can't eat for himself so I will feed him. It will disturb the people on adjoining tables. My meal will be cold. I will also have two kids one of who is on holiday from university studying marine biology and won't upset the other people in the pub. The younger has autism, ADH and massive amounts of stress and anxiety. Greatest kid in the world and wants to hug everybody.

Should I cancel the meal?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:29 pm

If it be your will wrote:Not quite. In summary there are two opposing rights at play here. The right to take one's child wherever you wish, and the right to occasionally enjoy peace and quiet. Alas, both sides need to make concessions sometimes.

That sounds like a perfect summary of you to me.

So when you say concessions what do you mean ?
Are you seriously saying that parents with children with learning difficulties / special needs who already have a much more difficult a life than parents of children without these issues should make the concession of not going to a public restaurant so the likes of you can "enjoy peace and quiet" ?

When you say "occasionally enjoy peace and quiet" when do you think these parents get a chance of any peace and quiet ? Whereas parents with "normal" kids get plenty of chance.

Are you one of these people on an aeroplane who tut at crying babies and their parents ?
Would you be tempted to give a 7 year old with Tourette's a clip round the ear because he makes a strange noise as you are waiting for your food to be delivered ?
How about asking a parent of a child with down syndrome who makes you feel a bit uncomfortable when you are stuffing chicken down your mouth if they mind moving to the other side of the restaurant from you ?

What exactly is acceptable to you so that you get this "occasional peace and quiet" you so long for ?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:29 pm

No enjoy it! And don't let yours go cold.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:32 pm

Course not

There are many different ways to bring up kids, and due to everyone's personal circumstances, what works for yours might not work for thiers.

So don't judge, don't comment and try to be understanding.

I didn't say owt for example to the family coming back from Blackpool on the train after we beat them 1-0 who were feeding a baby coca cola in a bottle. Its not right from my point of view, and its clearly not what you should do, but the family seemed happy enough and that is rare enough as it is.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:38 pm

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:45 pm

If it be your will wrote:It's tricky and complex to know where the arbitrary line should be drawn, I agree. Where do restaurants (what we are discussing) lie between libraries/quiet coaches and playgrounds? I suppose it depends on which restaurant, at what time and what occasion, then exercise judgement to the best of your ability.

It`s neither tricky or complex - restaurants are public places where there is no restriction on children making noise. If there was then the restaurant owners would make this clear.

I`m not sure how many times you have experienced this horrific disturbance of your peace and quiet - surely you have had times when you have enjoyed peace and quiet ? Surely it`s actually the vast majority of time ? Does this not satisfy your wishes of "occasional peace and quiet" ?

Or are you wanting some kind of guarantee that this never happens every time you go out for a meal ?

Maybe we should have special restaurants for the special children - would that make you happier ?

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:45 pm

tybfc wrote:Ofsted and they don't appear interested.

There have been 60+ kids removed from the school in 18 months because of the head and virtually a whole turnaround of staff.

The chair of Govs is suspended because the head says he bullies him!

I just find this hard to believe. It was announced that their were 21 expulsions from 5 Burnley Secondary schools and this was an increase of 133% on previous years, That is from 3000 plus children. 60 from one school in 18 months just seems like National News headlines to me yet the first I’ve or it seems most on here have heard about it is today.

With regards to you’re fostering work tybfc you do a remarkable job, My Brother in Law and Sister in Law are foster carers and people cannot begin to imagine the time, effort, love and care this takes.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:46 pm

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:49 pm

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:56 pm

If it be your will wrote:Read carefully everything I have written and it should be immediately apparent the answers to the questions is 'no'.

I`ve "carefully read" everything you have written and the only think that is immediately apparent to me is that you are an intolerent bigot.

If these "personal circumstances" that you refer to are a reference to some kind of illness or special needs you have got yourself or a member of your family has got then you have my sympathy.

But don`t mistake that as sympathy for the views you hold which are fundamentally wrong - and actually if these personal circumstances are a reference to this then the views you hold are even worse than I initially thought.

As already said I cannot think of any circumstances in the world that would justify the views you have expressed.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:58 pm

If it be your will wrote:This, I think, is where we fundamentally differ in our outlook.

Its not my opinion - its a fact.

Some eating establishments do actually have restrictions on children - but clearly not the ones you have been to where your life has been turned upside down by these pesky children

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:04 pm

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:09 pm

If it be your will wrote:We'll discuss this again if you like, when you've calmed down a bit. We're clearly getting nowhere at the moment.

I`m plenty calm but thanks for your patronising concern.
You run along and enjoy that peace and quiet.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:11 pm

If it be your will wrote:We'll discuss this again if you like, when you've calmed down a bit. We're clearly getting nowhere at the moment.

We're getting nowhere because you're a selfish tool who thinks the world should revolve around him.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:13 pm

TVC15, all other comments aside why should I be subject to dirty looks when I take my wife out who has suffered a stroke and sometimes can be a bit loud when we are out as she suffers from aphasia and other issues that mean I have to cut her dinner up etc...in this day and age people are so incredibly judgemental and dismissive of others who are 'different'...

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:23 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:We're getting nowhere because you're a selfish tool who thinks the world should revolve around him.

I signed up on this message board 13 years ago and can't remember reading so much drivel.

Come and have a meal with my family (if it will be your will) at the restaurant of your choice and tell my son why he shouldn't be allowed out of the house. I'll pay the bill.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:24 pm

ClaretDiver wrote:TVC15, all other comments aside why should I be subject to dirty looks when I take my wife out who has suffered a stroke and sometimes can be a bit loud when we are out as she suffers from aphasia and other issues that mean I have to cut her dinner up etc...in this day and age people are so incredibly judgemental and dismissive of others who are 'different'...

You absolutely should not be - and if I saw anyone giving you dirty looks in these circumstances in a restaurant (or any other place) then I would 100% call them out on this.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:26 pm

tybfc wrote:I signed up on this message board 13 years ago and can't remember reading so much drivel.

Come and have a meal with my family and tell my son why he shouldn't be allowed out of the house. I'll pay the bill.

I'm talking about If It Be Your Will, I'm on your side

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:27 pm

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:29 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:WTF

Sorry see edit

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:50 pm

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:54 pm

LordBob · Post by **LordBob** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:05 pm

I was on business in Swords near Dublin in 1997 and a colleague and I called at a Little Chef just south of the airport the place was reasonably busy when a mini bus pulled up and an adult came in asking a member of staff if it was ok to bring a group of kids in and could they make up a big table the staff saw no problem. We and other customers were asked politely to relocate so our tables could be used and this wasn't a problem for anyone when the kids came in with smiling food eager faces you could see they were either Down Syndrome or very special needs. They got on with their meals and a little later some mischievous fun broke out first a chip would arrive at speed then a bit of something else only to be returned with smiles all round by adult customers everybody got involved it was so good. My colleague and I ordered more coffee so as to stay and watch the amazing dynamics when the party left there were hugs all round from Little Chef staff and us customers alike and we even helped to clear up afterwards. That was Ireland, my Grandfather was Irish and I can tell you that day I felt so proud.

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:20 pm

I was at the pantomime yesterday and had the misfortune to have little 'Thomas' sat behind me. Wouldn't sit still, kicking the back of my chair every once in a while, wouldn't shut up, rocked my chair etc etc. Mum, Dad and Grandma dished out the minimal of rebukes / remainders for him to keep still. Ruined it for me until I could take no more and turned around to politely ask them to keep him away from the back of my chair. Not an unreasonable request I thought. If that was my child, I'd have been far more strict in controlling him, even taking him out of the theatre hall if he become too disruptive. One part of parenting is knowing how to deal with your child's behaviour and how it impacts on others.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:21 pm

TVC15 wrote:You absolutely should not be - and if I saw anyone giving you dirty looks in these circumstances in a restaurant (or any other place) then I would 100% call them out on this.

Thank you!

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:27 pm

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:I was at the pantomime yesterday and had the misfortune to have little 'Thomas' sat behind me. Wouldn't sit still, kicking the back of my chair every once in a while, wouldn't shut up, rocked my chair etc etc. Mum, Dad and Grandma dished out the minimal of rebukes / remainders for him to keep still. Ruined it for me until I could take no more and turned around to politely ask them to keep him away from the back of my chair. Not an unreasonable request I thought. If that was my child, I'd have been far more strict in controlling him, even taking him out of the theatre hall if he become too disruptive. One part of parenting is knowing how to deal with your child's behaviour and how it impacts on others.

How dare a child be a child at a pantomime

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:28 pm

If it be your will wrote:This has turned into an interesting thread. To me, the 2 posts above draw exactly the same conclusion. Why does mine receive 2 pages of abuse, and Crosspool's a 'like'? Is this a case of it's not what I said, but the way I said it or something? Where's the abuse for Bin Ont Turf, who was much more forthright than I??

I didn't get any abuse because people just rolled their eyes and assume that I have one of them 21st century illnesses which gives me a ready made excuse for poor behaviour in public.

You'll have to forgive TyBFC, he's got a bee in his bonnet about something different to what we are talking about. His heart is in the right place though.

TVC15 needs to be seen as being PC to give him the excuse to call people names, which he's very good at.

Uphisownarsehole is this boards belly button fluff, not really sure what the point is or why it's there.

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:32 pm

Would never judge a parent because their child is playing up, as there could be a whole host of reasons.

In some situations you can't take the child somewhere out of the way to try and settle them (airplanes etc), but in a restaurant I think there becomes a point where there should be some consideration for others around. Not sure there is much justification for letting a child scream and cry for 15-20 mins whilst you eat your tea and pretend everything is normal. I Would never dream of rolling eyes or commenting. Where parents let there kids run around the restaurant knocking in to tables, knocking into staff and generally giving free rein to use a restaurant as one big play area though....that is frustrating and does happen.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:46 pm

If a kid is repeatedly kicking the back of my seat at the theatre with no action taken by the parents I would not be pleased either.

Yes you have to let a child be a child sometimes, but that's no excuse for not controlling them properly when they're being antisocial.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:49 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:I didn't get any abuse because people just rolled their eyes and assume that I have one of them 21st century illnesses which gives me a ready made excuse for poor behaviour in public.

You'll have to forgive TyBFC, he's got a bee in his bonnet about something different to what we are talking about. His heart is in the right place though.

TVC15 needs to be seen as being PC to give him the excuse to call people names, which he's very good at.

Uphisownarsehole is this boards belly button fluff, not really sure what the point is or why it's there.

Aye that makes a load of sense - I pretend to be PC so I can call you an ignorant bigot ?

The reason why you have managed to escape the abuse you deserved on this thread is simply because people are bored of you now.

But I`m happy to go along with your description of me by re-iterating that I think that the views you have expressed on this issue are that of an ignorant pr-ick.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:51 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:How dare a child be a child at a pantomime

funniest post of the day lmao

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:55 pm

TVC15 wrote:Aye that makes a load of sense - I pretend to be PC so I can call you an ignorant bigot ?

The reason why you have managed to escape the abuse you deserved on this thread is simply because people are bored of you now.

But I`m happy to go along with your description of me by re-iterating that I think that the views you have expressed on this issue are that of an ignorant pr-ick.

Don't be so judgemental.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm

Falcon wrote:If a kid is repeatedly kicking the back of my seat at the theatre with no action taken by the parents I would not be pleased either.

Yes you have to let a child be a child sometimes, but that's no excuse for not controlling them properly when they're being antisocial.

There are surely different rules for pantomimes, which are traditionally light-hearted, rowdy affairs for giddy children.

They're not events for sourpuss old sods getting a face on because little Thomas got a bit excited at a f*cking panto

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:57 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Don't be so judgemental.

gonna get some more popcorn!

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:57 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm with you. Whilst it's senseless to criticise the parenting skills of complete strangers (on account you have no idea of the background), I think there is a strong case for saying you shouldn't take children into quiet places unless they are very likely to behave. And if, that day, your child unusually falls short, you should leave promptly, even if that means leaving an uneaten meal behind (a screaming fit followed by a "Right, we're leaving!" shouldn't bother anyone, for example).

It might not be your fault your child has behaviour issues, but it isn't everyone else's fault either. Whilst I'm too politically correct to call them bi-polar midgets, I might well roll my eyes.

Obviously you don't have kids with the above post. Utc

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:59 pm

Judgemental parents or judgemental of parents?

It seems there are many who are able to cast the first stone on this thread.

FYI I don't really care if people think I'm being harsh with my child, He knows where the line is and when he is crossing it.

That's probably why he's so well behaved at school, in restaurants, on planes and wherever else we go.

Infact it actually winds me up when some daft old bint on a plane normally turns around and says "he's so well behaved". Why wouldn't he be?!

Judge me all you want but it's the results which need judging not the method.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:06 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:There are surely different rules for pantomimes, which are traditionally light-hearted, rowdy affairs for giddy children.

They're not events for sourpuss old sods getting a face on because little Thomas got a bit excited at a f*cking panto

That child will probably grow up to be racist though.

Alanstevensonsgloves · Post by **Alanstevensonsgloves** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:15 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:How dare a child be a child at a pantomime

Ironically a very childish response! Of course children should be at pantomimes. But if they are not going to behave, like 99% of all the other children there, then the parents should take responsibility to stop that child affecting others (adults and children alike) enjoyment.

NOTE! I am not referring of course to children with learning disabilities

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:20 pm

Alanstevensonsgloves wrote:
NOTE! I am not referring of course to children with learning disabilities

Nice move Alan.

I didn't put that and got judged.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:29 pm

Bi polar midgets" - f-uck me what kind of ignorant idiot talks like this ?

I was brought up and have also worked with people with learning disabilities.

A cousin was born severely mentally & physically handicapped.

Argh you can't use the word 'Handicapped,I hear folk say.
Not professionally,no.
Away from all that though,If you ask me to best describe my late cousin I would not be averse to using the word 'Cabbaged'