John Stones

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:55 pm

Suppose he'll stop being error prone before he retires....perhaps

It's a good job for city that they are so good in attack as they don't have much defending to do. He may be a great passer of the ball but as a defender he's not great.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:56 pm

They overpayed by miles.
Not a patch on our central two.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:56 pm

I'd like to know who bigged him up to be better than he actually is.

Something must have happened for somebody to think, "I know - I'll start telling people this lad is world class", before people started to follow suit and Pep fell for it. Certainly one of the most overrated players I've seen in the last 5 years. Tarkowski is better.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:58 pm

Long is better

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:07 pm

Hilarious - he's made one mistake this season - today.

Up to his recent injury he had the best statistics of any defender in the league for not giving the ball away and was getting rave reviews from Pep and the pundits every week.

Not his fault they paid £50m for him - in my view he`s the best centre back in England.

Ben Mee and Tarks have been brilliant for us - i love them both....especially Ben Mee for what he has done for us for the last few season. They have both made mistakes this year and cost us goals - but that is completely inevitable in this league given the players we are up against every week.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:12 pm

Fantastic player, been one of the best central defenders in the league. One mistake and suddenly he's worse than Kevin Long...... kinda sums this place up really.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:16 pm

TVC15 wrote:in my view he`s the best centre back in England.

Virgil van Dijk is far better and so is Toby Alderweireld.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:18 pm

The problem lies with the fee, not the player who is actually very good.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:20 pm

John Stones is the best English Centre half in the Premier league by an absolute country mile. First name on the teamsheet for Gareth Southgate if fit imo.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:21 pm

Spijed wrote:Virgil van Dijk is far better and so is Toby Alderweireld.

Sorry I meant he is the best English Centre back.

This season Stones has been a better player than both the ones you mention though I agree they were both better players than Stones last year. We are talking about a couple of the world`s best centre backs there though and i`d disagree that Stones is as far behind them as you are saying.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:21 pm

Superb defender

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:53 pm

Outstanding defender. Looking forward to seeing him in an England shirt for years to come.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:23 pm

Another bit of class defending again!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:26 pm

Very good footballer who remains an error prone defender. Too risky for England.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:03 am

really like the look of Hoedt at Southampton. They only paid £15 mill for him from Lazio which is the kind of price we're getting quoted for the likes of Worrell. From an English perspective, interesting to see how Jack Stephens develops. Still learning to play Centre Half but could be a good un.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:45 am

Spijed wrote:Another bit of class defending again!

I didn't see you on here praising him before his injury when he was one of the best central defenders in the league. It's almost like you're willing him to fail to prove your stupid point whilst ignoring the times he's been great. Illogical

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:51 am

Only 'one of the best'?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:05 am

KRBFC wrote:I didn't see you on here praising him before his injury when he was one of the best central defenders in the league. It's almost like you're willing him to fail to prove your stupid point whilst ignoring the times he's been great. Illogical

People who do stuff like that eh. What are they like.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:07 am

What about his passing resemblance to Cillian Murphy?

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:09 am

JohnMac wrote:What about his passing resemblance to Cillian Murphy?

Never been seen in the same room.

bumba · Post by **bumba** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:12 am

TVC15 wrote:Hilarious - he's made one mistake this season - today.

Up to his recent injury he had the best statistics of any defender in the league for not giving the ball away and was getting rave reviews from Pep and the pundits every week.

Not his fault they paid £50m for him - in my view he`s the best centre back in England.

Ben Mee and Tarks have been brilliant for us - i love them both....especially Ben Mee for what he has done for us for the last few season. They have both made mistakes this year and cost us goals - but that is completely inevitable in this league given the players we are up against every week.

He is a top class defender but he made an error against us a few weeks ago so thats two in as many weeks off the top of my head.

That said Ben Mee will make more errors in a season for as good as he is for us

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:31 am

Thing is in the modern game, are there really any world class 'defenders' anymore?
You need to have so much more to fit in a top class team now than being a defender, which for me is one of the reasons the likes of Ben Mee (an excellent defender), much to our advantage, is over looked by the big boys.

Go back 10-15 years, defenders were just that, they are now required to be much more athletic, comfortable with the ball at their feet, and much more composed. Which is where the likes of Stones fits in.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:40 am

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:Thing is in the modern game, are there really any world class 'defenders' anymore?
You need to have so much more to fit in a top class team now than being a defender, which for me is one of the reasons the likes of Ben Mee (an excellent defender), much to our advantage, is over looked by the big boys.

Go back 10-15 years, defenders were just that, they are now required to be much more athletic, comfortable with the ball at their feet, and much more composed. Which is where the likes of Stones fits in.

Look at the AC Milan team from 2005, you won't ever see a better defence on paper. Cafu, Nesta, Maldini and Stam.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:39 am

It would be interesting to see how that defence would work with today's style of play.

It's like fitting top class defenders of yesterday like Terry Butcher into a current City line up, Pep wouldn't want him.

The art of traditional defending, along with tackling, is fast disappearing from the top end of the game.

We are a slight anomaly of that in the sense of our playing style, which is now seen as refreshing.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:26 pm

KRBFC wrote:Look at the AC Milan team from 2005, you won't ever see a better defence on paper. Cafu, Nesta, Maldini and Stam.

I put forward the Italia national side of 1970, Burgnich, Cera, De Sisti and Fachetti. Anyone else?

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:51 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:I put forward the Italia national side of 1970, Burgnich, Cera, De Sisti and Fachetti. Anyone else?

I'd counter that with the Brazilian front 5

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:05 pm

1982 Italy World Cup winning defence weren't too bad either
Zoff
Bergomi
Cabrini
Scirea
And last and definitely scariest......Gentile which translated into English means dirty Bas-tard (probably !!)

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:16 pm

Defences of the top teams have to be better footballers now because the defences of the lower teams are much stronger.

Eg, the top teams struggle to break lower teams down and get through so the top teams CH and more often FB come out with the ball to stretch the opponents defence. We could (not always mind) defend against say Sane, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Sterling. Man for man were good enough. Add Delph on one side, Walker on the other, Stones stepping into midfield you're sometimes up against essentially 4 wingers and 3/4 CM and a stricker.

Swansea got a great win on monday because liverpools FB and CH were poor on the ball. They didn't move the Swansea defence around so much.

chipbutty · Post by **chipbutty** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:49 am

TVC15 wrote:Hilarious - he's made one mistake this season - today.

Up to his recent injury he had the best statistics of any defender in the league for not giving the ball away and was getting rave reviews from Pep and the pundits every week.

Not his fault they paid £50m for him - in my view he`s the best centre back in England.

Ben Mee and Tarks have been brilliant for us - i love them both....especially Ben Mee for what he has done for us for the last few season. They have both made mistakes this year and cost us goals - but that is completely inevitable in this league given the players we are up against every week.

Put John Stones in our defence playing against City/Unite / Chelski etc and he wouldn`t know what had hit him...
Best statistics maybe, but for playing in one of the best/ most expensively assembled teams in the world?
A million miles away from a team like Burnley

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:03 am

Not to discredit Mee and Tarks but playing centre-back in our system is probably the easiest in the league. They get great protection from the fullbacks and Cork and Defour intercept and block everything in front of them.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:20 am

chipbutty wrote:Put John Stones in our defence playing against City/Unite / Chelski etc and he wouldn`t know what had hit him...
Best statistics maybe, but for playing in one of the best/ most expensively assembled teams in the world?
A million miles away from a team like Burnley

Put Tarks or Ben Mee in the City defence and they would not be able to cope with style of play, first touch and passing required. They'd give goals away for fun.

All defenders make mistakes - ours certainly do. John Stones is getting picked out for making a couple of mistakes this season and inevitably his £50m price tag comes up. Yet Mustafi at Arsenal is absolutely awful, makes miles more mistakes and cost about the same. Is it because Stones is English ?

Does Stones make more mistakes than £50m David Luiz who can't get a game at Chelsea ? How about the £35m Lindelof at United who only plays in the Carabao cup ? Or the £35m walking disaster Mangala at city ?
Has anyone seen the £50m Bonucci's performances for AC Milan this season ? He's a had a nightmare

Stones is a very good player having a good season.

mohamed69 · Post by **mohamed69** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:18 am

Our framework makes defenders and GKs look better than they are. City's does the opposite.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:08 am

Call me old fashioned but I like defenders primarily to defend, none of this fancy Dan stuff that ends up costing goals. Stones is a good footballer but unfortunately he's not a defender and I can see him being converted to a midfielder in the not too distant future

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:12 am

He's got pace, good in the air and usually times his tackles well.
He can definitely defend.

But playing for City he is told that he has to pass his way out of defence and take risks rather than clear his lines or hit it long into general space. If he did not follow Pep's instructions he would be dropped and sold very quickly.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:15 am

Stones can defend, he can play too. Put him in our system, with the protection and everything that goes with it, and I doubt he'd make a mistake all season. Not that I care much but England really need to stick with him also and make it work.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:16 am

He's still young, and is one of the better English defenders out there.

But is he as good as Vertonghen? Alderweireld?

Not yet, but he could be

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:57 am

Not sure whether Vertonghen is better than Stones but I agree on Alderweireld (if he gets back to last seasons form as he`s been injured most of this season).

I`d say Van Dijk is a better centre back than Stones - again if he can find his form of the last couple of years rather than this season.

Stones is at least improving every season.

Looks like City are on the verge of paying nearly £60m for another centre back - Laporte for Bilbao. Will be interesting to see whether Otamendi or Stones has to make way. Stones for me is a much better player than Otamendi but to be fair to Otamendi he's done really well this year (or maybe its just the goals he's scored has made him look better !)

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:03 am

Alderweireld is a top defender, but he is overrated in my opinion, just like anyone in a Spurs shirt over the last 2 years (Harry Kane aside).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:18 am

Oh I dunno, Spurs with Alderweireld challenge for the title. Without him they are just another top six side.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:24 am

Hes a good player/defender. I wouldn't say he takes that many risks. It's just simple 10/15yd passes he makes. It'd be pretty pointless smashing the ball over Silva and De Bryunes head and expecting Aguero or Jesus to win headers against CH

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:12 pm

Braindead wrote:John Stones is the best English Centre half in the Premier league by an absolute country mile. First name on the teamsheet for Gareth Southgate if fit imo.

First name on the teamsheet? Really? I'm pretty sure Harry Kane is the first name of the England teamsheet these days. He's the only truly world class player we have. Stones is a decent defender and we should look to set up an England team with him in it, but IMO he's not at the level of being an automatic choice yet.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:04 pm

The one he conceded against Liverpool, where Firmino just nudged him out of his way and scored, was alarming. A team that expects to have some defending to do (as England will in the World Cup and as City don't in the PL) shouldn't have that defender as first name on the team sheet.

He's nowehere near 'a country mile' better than the rest of the English CBs, he's just the English CB most comfortable on the ball.

Braindead · Post by **Braindead** » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:22 pm

jlup1980 wrote:First name on the teamsheet? Really? I'm pretty sure Harry Kane is the first name of the England teamsheet these days. He's the only truly world class player we have. Stones is a decent defender and we should look to set up an England team with him in it, but IMO he's not at the level of being an automatic choice yet.

I disagree. Given his competition for a centre half spot is currently Smalling, Jones, Maguire, Cahill and Keane, i would suggest his name is first on that particularly shite list.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:45 am

Reports surfacing today that he will be sold in the summer by City.

So does that mean Pep has failed to improve him, or he just isn't good enough for City's standards?

I'm also going to be interested to see if they recoup that original transfer fee.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:05 am

Straight swap for Mee? (Wages)
(Mee being on his way out, apparently, according to some of the people on here claiming to be "In the know.")

Then we'd see how he could fit into a Dyche side.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:17 am

Ive had a feeling for a while tarkowski will be at city next year. Hope I’m wrong mind.

As for Stones. Feel a little sorry for him. His price tag was crazy and been a burden I feel. Still only a young lad. Liverpool would be a good fit for him.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:15 am

I think he's a decent player but (as per Dyched above) has had some problems living up to the hype around the big transfer fee. Still only 23 and time to develop into a very good Prem CB. City's (Pep's) standards are very high and they're maybe not going to await him improving over the next few years/ play him less than he wants.
There are very few English clubs who would pay his £100k/week wages (or a transfer fee even approaching what City paid) - maybe Arsenal's new manager will take a plunge, he's better than Mustafi.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:44 pm

His is financially outstripping his true effective value.

That makes a career very hard to progress.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:56 pm

I find it odd that he's behind Otamendi and Kompany in the pecking order, but if that's the case then he needs to move on. He has to be playing week in week out if he's to fulfill his potential.

He reminds me quite a lot of Rio Ferdinand who came in for similar criticism in the early stages of his career. He didn't turn out to be too bad in the end, though - hopefully Stones can follow suit.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:34 pm

Didn't Pep once say they don't practice tackling in training? I'm sure he was speaking figuratively, but he does look like like he could do with a good stint working on the defensive basics with a team that 'does' defending. He's naturally good going forward and I doubt he'll lose that, he started out more of a full back before being shifted inside later, it doesn't look like a lot of the CB basics come as natuarally to him, especially when compared to Kompany and Otamendi. If CB is his position then I think he'd benefit from a different dose of coaching just to get his confidence in the basics back up, he's looked really shaky often in games this season.

If I was City I'd get him out on loan in Germany or Italy for a year.