MP Jared O'Mara

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 am

My MP has been incognito for a month or two after having the whip withdrawn following some unsavoury Twitter comments. Many people I know in the constituency who know him very well, say, well, let's just say they do not like him. Even the odious Nick Clegg, who he beat, was ten times as good an MP. No Tories can get in here - it's as liberal as the country gets.

In the last few days, there seems to be a bizarre and sadly predictable sequence of events:

9 Jan - Tory supporter Toby Young resigns from the board of the university regulator after some unsavoury Twitter comments.
14 Jan - Tories round on John McDonnell (for his comments about Esther McVeigh) and Jared O'Mara for similarly unsavoury comments, saying why don't the hard left hold them to the same standard that they insist for right of centre people
15 Jan - Momentum sweep to victory in Labour's National Council elections, giving the hard left total control of the party
16 Jan - Labour's head of the disciplinary committee immediately replaced with a Momentum candidate
17 Jan - Jared O'Mara announced he is returning to work after standing down for "health reasons" (he has cerebral palsy). Is it a coincidence (I do not believe in them)? https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mp ... -1-8962351

Even a total cynic like me was astonished when I saw the O'Mara story today after the events of the last couple of days. It's shameless.

No mention yet of the whip being returned to O'Mara but I will predict it is just a matter of time. This could be our Government folks. Full of hard left types, total control over the party and party discipline. All kind of things will be brushed under the carpet now. Much of the public will, as is natural, follow that lead, so places like Twitter will become a cesspit, if it isn't already. Only hard left views though, even marginally right of centre views will be shouted down. Looking like a fun few years ahead......and that's before any views on whether the hard left will be economically catastrophic in a way that will make Brexit feel like a small speed bump.

...and yes...central banks in the main and the Tories too have led to people's wages stagnating, here and around the world. If Corbyn gets in, they will be to blame, no doubt.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:40 pm

I'm not saying this sounds great but there's a few things worth mentioning.

I know some people don't like it and there are complaints about it but the rise of Momentum is pretty legit and democratic as I understand it. A lot of people aren't keen on young, passionate, activist types but it seems like they're organised and they're using the structures in place in the Labour party to make themselves better heard and win the arguments they want to win. Fair do's I think, you don't have to vote for them. I'm sure the Tories would love a few more young party members with that sort of energy and drive, I'd guess the Tory party structure wouldn't be democratic enough to cede them very much influence though. It's just a difference in how the parties are setup to work and the people attracted to the parties.

On O'Mara and Young, I don't remember the details and can't be arsed looking it up, but O'Mara's pretty young, wasn't he in trouble for stuff he'd said in his twenties, early Twitter, before he won election to be an MP? Young's 40-50 and been saying what some people would call unsavoury stuff as his career for a long time (was it a thousand tweets he deleted?), then was selected for a job by the Tories who either weren't aware or bothered by what he's said in the past. One apology is easier to believe than the other and one position is more easily withdrawn.

Twitter is already a shouting cesspit, no point trying to regulate it or read anything into trends there.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:31 pm

Kinda funny how things change, only 12 months ago the political right would have laughed their cocks off at the suggestion Corbyn could one day be PM, but as demonstrated by the OP it's now clearly starting to become a worry. I also think the Tories would jump at the chance to have their own version of Momentum, in fact didn't they try and start one recently called "Activate" which fell flat? What they failed to grasp was that Momentum is all about pushing for change and young people influencing the agenda of the Labour Party, whereas the Activate Twitter account seemed to just be middle aged, middle class people telling young voters the status quo is great.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 pm

I remain convinced that the utter and total failure of the current government to do absolutely anything right is going to lead to the sort of government that brings out their supporters in cold sweats.

Continue down the current route, and its an absolute guarantee that Corybn will be the next prime minister, and maybe its not such a bad thing.

I'm not going to vote for him, because I don't trust him or his supporters, but they at least seem motivated by conviction and enthusiasm.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:38 pm

https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... endum.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best bit is the poll for who'd make the best PM. When "don't know" is winning, you know we are f**ked.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 pm

Jamie O'hara

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I remain convinced that the utter and total failure of the current government to do absolutely anything right is going to lead to the sort of government that brings out their supporters in cold sweats.

Remember all those Conservatives laughing and joking as they paid their £3 to vote for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election? I wonder how they're feeling now.

A case of arrogant stupidity only surpassed by May's calling of an early general election in an attempt to crush the opposition, and throwing away her majority as a result.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:18 pm

I think the failure to understand that the country is hopelessly split now, and on two fault lines - Brexit, or no Brexit, and young v old.

Churchill would struggle with that, May has not got a scooby.

claret59 · Post by **claret59** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:40 pm

Not to re-open the lengthy debates on here about Brexit but there is not a 'No Brexit' Party. Individual politicians have spoken against Brexit but the main parties are committed (supposedly) to being pro. Brexit because of the democratic referendum result.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:48 pm

I'm not sure the splits are so stark Lancs, though media and social media give that impression.

I realise social circles tend to cover limited demographics, but of the people I mix with and in my group of friends there are young and old, remain voters and leave voters, and we are all getting along fine. I can't honestly think of anyone I meet who is aggressive to opposing views.

Reading this forum you'd sometimes get the impression the splits are there. But when you look at it, there are 20 posters at the most who get into heated spats, plus a couple of trolls, of course.

One thing we generally agree on though is that a Corbyn government would be worth watching from a distance; and the sad thing is that the young would likely suffer far greater than the older, more affluent, who can largely do what they want, irrespective of government.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:08 pm

claret59 wrote:Not to re-open the lengthy debates on here about Brexit but there is not a 'No Brexit' Party.

There is: The Lib Dems, the Greens, the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and various Irish parties are strongly "No Brexit". They represent in total approaching 5 million voters.
Add to this the fact that the Labour Party's "official line" is pro-"soft Brexit" only, and there's a clear majority against the Tory "hard" brexit.
Given that a large majority of Labour voters are also "no brexit", it will be interesting to see if Corbyn maintains his current "fence sitting" position, or whether - as soon as the number clearly stack up, he runs on a "no brexit" / 2nd referendum ticket at the now almost inevitable general election.
Huge numbers of young people are swelling the Labour ranks in the hope of either reversing the referendum result - or at least- leaving in the least damaging (most minor) way.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:12 pm

There's no point in positioning a party as a no brexit party, because it's happening.

Labour needs to get this over to its supporters and get on with the job of bringing these wounded Tories down.

It's what Corbyn's saying, so let's get on with it.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think the failure to understand that the country is hopelessly split now, and on two fault lines - Brexit, or no Brexit, and young v old.

Churchill would struggle with that, May has not got a scooby.

I tend to agree but I also think Labour has its own balancing issues between its Metropolitan base, the one that won the seat in Kensington of all places and its old core vote of the Northern working class areas where the likes of John Mann represents.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:46 pm

If you guys on here are Happy with Theresa May and her cronies......Then i give up! She is the biggest CNUT since Thatcher. Evil cow.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:50 pm

There are balancing issues in all parties though.

It would take a swing of unbelievable proportions to deliver the north to the conservatives for example, ditto the south outside London to Labour.

As always, it will be the swing seats of about fifty/sixty that will decide who messes it up for the next five years.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:52 pm

There you go Taffy - smashing another myth that Corbynistas are all under 24. Good on ya

This could be the beginning of the end of sweeping generalisations on Up the Clarets

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:59 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Remember all those Conservatives laughing and joking as they paid their £3 to vote for Corbyn in the Labour leadership election? I wonder how they're feeling now.

A case of arrogant stupidity only surpassed by May's calling of an early general election in an attempt to crush the opposition, and throwing away her majority as a result.

I paid my £3 and voted for him. Yep, feeling worried, but hoping that I did will save me from being lined up against the wall when the time comes....

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:03 pm

Destroying the NHS and throwing people out on the streets! WTF?

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:41 pm

That's the spirit, Taffy.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:33 pm

I have no problem with Corbyn getting in (I have a big problem if we end up half staying in the EU, but that’s a totally separate issue).

If he is voted in, so be it. I won’t vote for him, but then, if the Tories balls up Brexit, I won’t be voting for them either.

The problem I have with Corbyn, which is what I meant earlier, is the complete lack of class or standards.

It feels like it would become an abusive rabble. Online abuse, anti-semitism, the kind of thing they have been saying on the fringes for decades but governments of a great country like ours cannot act like that, but I fear they will. All the signs point to it. It will lead to a generation of classless scumbags. It will be worse than Trump, because even though we find him distasteful, he is speaking in a way common to a lot of mid-US.

Surely a UK socialist government doesn’t need to have such low standards of behaviour?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:41 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I have no problem with Corbyn getting in (I have a big problem if we end up half staying in the EU, but that’s a totally separate issue).

If he is voted in, so be it. I won’t vote for him, but then, if the Tories balls up Brexit, I won’t be voting for them either.

The problem I have with Corbyn, which is what I meant earlier, is the complete lack of class or standards.

It feels like it would become an abusive rabble. Online abuse, anti-semitism, the kind of thing they have been saying on the fringes for decades but governments of a great country like ours cannot act like that, but I fear they will. All the signs point to it. It will lead to a generation of classless scumbags. It will be worse than Trump, because even though we find him distasteful, he is speaking in a way common to a lot of mid-US.

Surely a UK socialist government doesn’t need to have such low standards of behaviour?

Sounds like you have quite a big problem with Corbyn getting in tbh.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm not going to vote for him

If it's not such a bad thing, then why do you seem so ashamed of being a complete and utter corbynite?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 pm

Damo wrote:If it's not such a bad thing, then why do you seem so ashamed of being a complete and utter corbynite?

Maybe him and Sidney suffer from the same complex, Sid can't bring himself to come out as a Tory

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:51 pm

Whose a Corbynite Damo?

I'm certainly not one

Like a fair few, i'm stuck between an completely incompetent bunch on the right, and a "what are they doing now?" bunch on the left.

Classic centreist dad position I'm afraid

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:22 pm

There is no viable centre party in most seats,hence both Tories and Labour swept up so many votes in 2017,

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:41 pm

Corbyn is 68. He'll be 70 or more at the next election. Whilst there's nothing wrong with an older politician (in many ways that's a good thing) I can't help thinking we should be looking more at Corbyn's replacement as Labour party leader. Who will that be?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:48 am

Hopefully someone from this century Hipper

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:57 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
The problem I have with Corbyn, which is what I meant earlier, is the complete lack of class or standards.

It feels like it would become an abusive rabble. Online abuse, anti-semitism, the kind of thing they have been saying on the fringes for decades but governments of a great country like ours cannot act like that, but I fear they will. All the signs point to it. It will lead to a generation of classless scumbags. It will be worse than Trump, because even though we find him distasteful, he is speaking in a way common to a lot of mid-US.

Can you give any examples of Corbyn doing this?

This is the same Jeremy Corbyn who in PMQs politely asks May in salient points why her Government is f*cking useless, rather than screaming it in her face as she deserves?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:52 am

If anything Corbyn's steadfast refusal not to get drawn into slandering the opposition and the pro-Tory media's continuous ongoing hatchet job centring on him and Diane Abbott suggest it's actually the right wing who have class and standard issues. Does anyone remember that time the Daily Mail ran a character assassination about the deceased father of Ed and David Miliband, disgraceful.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:56 am

Guich wrote:Hopefully someone from this century Hipper

You really want a teenager as PM?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:58 am

nil_desperandum wrote:You really want a teenager as PM?

It's the future!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:59 am

This is the issue I have with the Daily Mail in particular and newspapers in general. The apologies for making stuff up never get the same coverage and hence the same impact as the original headline, as in this one

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/ ... 1383043072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 am

And there are some proper f**k nuggets in all parties at Westminister at the moment it has to be said.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:01 pm

SammyBoy wrote:If anything Corbyn's steadfast refusal not to get drawn into slandering the opposition and the pro-Tory media's continuous ongoing hatchet job centring on him and Diane Abbott suggest it's actually the right wing who have class and standard issues. Does anyone remember that time the Daily Mail ran a character assassination about the deceased father of Ed and David Miliband, disgraceful.

To clarify, I refer to Corbyn and, by extension, his team, not just him alone. So for example, the abusive stuff stated about the US President by the shadow front bench team members which is bound to affect our relations with the US if Corbyn is PM, and I would expect similar stuff to follow about people like Macron, so that socialists like Le Pen benefit. It makes Boris look like the world’s best diplomat.

There is a big difference between newspapers peddling nonsense (I agree with Lancaster on that) and our leading politicians doing it. There is also a big difference between being polite in the Commons, but condoning your top team saying and doing things outside the Commons. Corbyn has said plenty of distasteful things in the past, but less since he has been leader.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:05 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:To clarify, I refer to Corbyn and, by extension, his team, not just him alone. So for example, the abusive stuff stated about the US President by the shadow front bench team members which is bound to affect our relations with the US if Corbyn is PM, and I would expect similar stuff to follow about people like Macron, so that socialists like Le Pen benefit. It makes Boris look like the world’s best diplomat.
.

You really think le Pen is a socialist and supported by the Corbyn camp??
This is exactly the sort of bizarre attack on Corbyn that proves there is a fear and obsession with him.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:08 pm

tiger76 wrote:There is no viable centre party in most seats,hence both Tories and Labour swept up so many votes in 2017,

I feel a new centre party will spring up, but the big question is whether this springs up as a pro-EU party or a pro-independence party. You can see a Blair setting one up, but you can also see a Brexiteer setting one up if they let us down on Brexit.

If the latter, I would support a party which was based on a combination of free trading, capitalist economics and policies which are truly aimed at ordinary people around the country rather than rewarding big firms and propping up asset prices.

The Tories currently benefit the rich and powerful.
Labour currently benefits the ultra-liberal metropolitan youngsters, not the ordinary folk in small towns and villages, and are socialist too.
The Lib Dem’s are the same but with a slightly more capitalist viewpoint.
Other parties are only narrow in their focus.
We thus have nobody to occupy that ground I describe above.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:10 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I feel a new centre party will spring up, but the big question is whether this springs up as a pro-EU party or a pro-independence party. .

So what's UKip for if not essentially pro-independence?, and it's support is very low at present.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:12 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:You really think le Pen is a socialist and supported by the Corbyn camp??
This is exactly the sort of bizarre attack on Corbyn that proves there is a fear and obsession with him.

Maybe not a socialist exactly but her economic policies are centre left even though her social policies are to the right. She is also anti-EU, like Corbyn, and proposed to spend much more on welfare and state spending. Corbyn would prefer her to Macron I feel sure.

I see why Corbyn’s fans get over sensitive to “attacks” on him. It’s true I find his opinions, and thus him, deplorable and full of hate (to Israel for example). He has far more hate of people succeeding that he has love for those that are not. I don’t see any love in him at all. But if others do, that’s fine. I just think the world is a far worse place if people with hate, envy and bitterness in their hearts have influence, and undoubtedly, he does.

To address your other comment, UKIP are not a centric party. Pro-independence, as we have seen, is across the entire political spectrum, and UKIP only covers part of that. The answer is not them.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:20 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Maybe not a socialist exactly but her economic policies are centre left even though her social policies are to the right. She is also anti-EU, like Corbyn, and proposed to spend much more on welfare and state spending. Corbyn would prefer her to Macron I feel sure.

I see why Corbyn’s fans get over sensitive to “attacks” on him. It’s true I find his opinions, and thus him, deplorable and full of hate (to Israel for example). He has far more hate of people succeeding that he has love for those that are not. I don’t see any love in him at all. But if others do, that’s fine.
.

Firstly. I'm no fan of Corbyn.
Main point however.
Corbyn has frequently spoken out about the dangers presented by Le Pen, and compares her to Trump and Farage.
e.g.
"He said: “It’s clear that there’s an alarming rise and acceleration of the populist right all across this continent. Be it Ukip in my country, in Britain, Donald Trump and the language he used in the presidential election in the United States or what’s happening in Hungary with Jobbik or Marine Le Pen in France with her National Front - politics has been shaken across the world."
There are plenty of examples you could use if you want to criticise Corbyn, but claiming he is a supporter of Le Pen doesn't do much to make your case credible

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:23 pm

Crosspool often talks utter sh*te in an eloquent manner. That's what he's doing here.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:31 pm

Corbyn would prefer her to Macron I feel sure.

I don't think you've followed the career of Mr Corbyn at all if you think that, in the nicest possible way.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:59 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I see why Corbyn’s fans get over sensitive to “attacks” on him. It’s true I find his opinions, and thus him, deplorable and full of hate (to Israel for example). He has far more hate of people succeeding that he has love for those that are not. I don’t see any love in him at all. But if others do, that’s fine. I just think the world is a far worse place if people with hate, envy and bitterness in their hearts have influence, and undoubtedly, he does.

Today I learned Crosspool exists in an alternate universe.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:10 pm

SammyBoy wrote:If anything Corbyn's steadfast refusal not to get drawn into slandering the opposition and the pro-Tory media's continuous ongoing hatchet job centring on him and Diane Abbott suggest it's actually the right wing who have class and standard issues. Does anyone remember that time the Daily Mail ran a character assassination about the deceased father of Ed and David Miliband, disgraceful.

I do recall it, rather distasteful. As was the Guardian when they did the same with David Cameron's father.

To be fair though, Diane Abbott did rather set herself up to be mocked.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:14 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:I do recall it, rather distasteful. As was the Guardian when they did the same with David Cameron's father.

You mean because 6 years after he died they reported on the Panama papers showing he was an aggressive tax dodger?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/a ... ax-bahamas

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:You mean because 6 years after he died they reported on the Panama papers showing he was an aggressive tax dodger?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/a ... ax-bahamas

Yeah, there's definitely a difference between reporting facts and declaring someone "The Man Who Hated Britain" just because he's of a different political persuasion.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:25 pm

I can't help but think that the current government's incompetence is doing more for the rising popularity of hard left Labour than the party itself.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:26 pm

Has it just been the last eighteen months when intelligent people just started to ignore facts for daft reasons, or has it always been there?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Has it just been the last eighteen months when intelligent people just started to ignore facts for daft reasons, or has it always been there?

It's a lot easier nowadays. Your news, social media, etc is all an echo chamber with people who agree with your viewpoint promoting sources who agree with you and stories that promote your viewpoint. The more you read those stories the more that will get fed to you and it's a vicious circle. You're seeing "evidence" that supports your viewpoint and nothing that contradicts it so you must be right.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 pm

True that.

I follow the total **** pile that is Guido Fawkes on twitter just to get an idea what the "other" side are talking about.

Quite an eyeopener, especially when the govt are in trouble what they can focus on

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:True that.

I follow the total **** pile that is Guido Fawkes on twitter just to get an idea what the "other" side are talking about.

Quite an eyeopener, especially when the govt are in trouble what they can focus on

That whackjob Paul Joseph Watson from Infowars is another to look out for if you want to see what the "alt-right" are peddling at the moment.