No VAR for the Chelsea non pen

[KRBFC]

Well if he had the referee would have given a penalty wouldn’t he. Willian saw the leg and fell into it, simple as. As I’ve said above, the irony is if he hadn’t thrown himself into the leg he’d have been tripped by it anyway. But he was trying to ‘make sure’ by throwing himself at the leg anyway.

So the defender dives into an out of control tackle and doesn't get the ball but an off balance Willian throws himself into the leg

[Dazzler]

Same star struck ref who let City take their free kick quickly without consulting him.

If the attacking team are fouled then it is they who hold the advantage.
With a free-kick around the penalty area, the attacking team are asked whether they want it quick or slow.
If they want it quick there is nothing in the laws of the game that says the ref has to indicate or use his whistle for the free-kick to be taken.

I do wish folk would learn the rules and stop whingeing.

[Tall Paul]

I thought top six teams got all the decisions, or is that just against us?

[Flat Stanley]

Willian was trying to hurdle the guys leg at full speed so was off balance a bit. He started his jump to get over the leg very soon before the defender caught him so didn't have time to get out of the way. To me it was not an obvious case of leaving his leg to be hit. If the defender did not catch him he would have landed and likely scored. It was a desperate challenge that didn't get the ball and caught the man. To me that's a penalty. It's not like some of Ali's where he left his leg hanging for ages. The other two were good decisions and were not pens.

[JohnMac]

Willian must be the worst hurdler in the world. I can't ever recall anyone associated with that sport taking off two footed.
He was trying to initiate contact for a penalty and if he had carried on moving in a natural manner would more than likely have got one.

Pedro is a disgusting cheat.

I am seriously concerned for the safety and welfare of Morata. He seriously needs to stay clear of the Tube system as any contact at all could see him propel himself onto the track.

[Flat Stanley]

Watch from the side angle. Looks like a penalty to me from that Angle. The angle the ref Saw it from

[JohnMac]

And as for Conte, he should be banned for his verbal assault at the end of extra time.

He should be further banned for his grovelling after they had won on penalties.

We used to have Managers with class and decorum but now it is riddled with petulant and childish moaners who rarely credit the opposition but whinge and whinge because of their own players shortcomings.

[JohnMac]

Watch from the side angle. Looks like a penalty to me from that Angle. The angle the ref Saw it from

I've seen all the angles and Willian took off 2 footed before any contact was made. If you are hurdling to avoid a 'leg breaker' fair enough but he wasn't.

[JohnMac]

From this game and the Arsenal one it appears Conte believes the game should be stopped and reviewed, I'm not sure if that's the case as I think the VAR ref can simply say 'Dive or Penalty' without the official on the pitch doing the charade game.
I'm sure the ref in the Leicester game was simply clarifying to everyone that VAR says onside and goal when he 'drew' the TV.

[Spijed]

Looking back, it does seem that it was the correct decision to book Arfield when he went down against Everton if any consistency is applied.

[Caballo]

Warnock got it bang on last week, VAR is going to impact the big clubs most. let's hope last night was just the beginning.

[JohnMac]

Looking back, it does seem that it was the correct decision to book Arfield when he went down against Everton if any consistency is applied.

You are correct there regarding consistency but the only real shocker for us has been Jeff Hendrick.

No penalty yet no booking.

We rarely get decisions because we are almost always going into the box in slow motion to begin with.

[Lancasterclaret]

Watch from the side angle. Looks like a penalty to me from that Angle. The angle the ref Saw it from

It looks a pen from every angle apart from the angle the ref saw it.

From the shot I saw from the refs view, it looks like Willan is already falling over his leg.

Still not a fan of VAR, and not looking forward to staying later and later during games because of it.

[welsbyswife]

It looks a pen from every angle apart from the angle the ref saw it.

From the shot I saw from the refs view, it looks like Willan is already falling over his leg.

Still not a fan of VAR, and not looking forward to staying later and later during games because of it.

I'm with Lancaster on this and am not at fan of VAR at all. Last night just shows that it won't bring any clarity because whether something is or isn't a penalty is still open to debate. So it makes me wonder what the advantage of bringing in the system is. It will lead to delay in matches, stop the flow of the game and extend the amount of injury time and yet won't stop managers, players and pundits moaning and spitting their dummies out.

[Tall Paul]

I'd like to think Morata would have been shown a second yellow card for arguing with the ref if there was more than a few seconds left in the game but I very much doubt it.

[UpTheBeehole]

I always wonder whether people who say fouls like this one and Pope's on Bernardo Silva can actually play football, and whether they've ever been tripped when moving at pace.

It takes a lot less to make someone go down when they're at full pelt, in the same way a cricket ball's flight can deviate massively when it only gets an edge.

[martin_p]

I always wonder whether people who say fouls like this one and Pope's on Bernardo Silva can actually play football, and whether they've ever been tripped when moving at pace.

It takes a lot less to make someone go down when they're at full pelt, in the same way a cricket ball's flight can deviate massively when it only gets an edge.

And I wonder if anyone who thought Pope on Silva was a penalty has actually ever fallen over. The first reaction is to put your hands down in front of you to break your fall, not throw them in the air!

[UpTheBeehole]

And I wonder if anyone who thought Popo on Silva was a penalty has actually ever fallen over. The first reaction is to put your hands down in front of you to break your fall, not throw them in the air!

Putting your hands in the air when the Popo come is standard practice

[dsr]

Conversely, I wonder whether Willian would have hit the floor if he'd been a rugby player with a ball in his hand and the tryline just in front. I doubt it - it seems to be an awful lot harder to get a rugby player to the floor than a football player. And that's not to do with moving at pace.

An England player got tripped in the World Cup Final in Australia late last year. He was running at pace, just had his heel tapped, and he fell. But it took him five stumbling steps before he went down - he didn't drop like a stone.

[TVC15]

VAR defintely has some role to play in my view.
Look at the Watford equaliser last weekend - blatant hand ball and cost Southampton the win.
Same with the Hendrick penalty at Huddersfield - not even open to debate if reviewed.
The grey areas are ones like Willam last night, Silva, Alli etc which personally I think should be reviewed by VAR (like every penalty decision should be) but where it is not clear cut should be left to the referees decision.
A better way of clearing up some of these incidents is to clamp down on simulation and exaggeration - any attempt to deceive the officials by doing this should be either no penalty or a retrospective ban by a panel if the referee is unsure and still gives the penalty. As much as I dislike the inconsistency of pundits like Shearer he seems pretty spot on in his views that players are falling / diving to the ground unnaturally when they have had the slightest touches.
A few bans dished out for this would soon cut out a lot of the cheating.

Need to also remember that VAR has been brought in to reduce the number of wrong decisions for major incidents rather than eliminate them all together which is never going to happen

[UpTheBeehole]

Well Rugby's a completely different game. It wouldn't have been a foul if he was tapped on his heel.

In football, if you are fouled then a free kick or penalty is given.

Therefore if you are fouled, then you go down, you don't man up and carry on, because what's the point in that? You've just been fouled, go down!

Anyone not doing that is doing his team, his club, their thousands of fans an injustice. Go down lad.

[Sutton-Claret]

''There was contact, he was entitled to go down'' - probably the single phrase that is killing the enjoyment of watching football.

BAN PENALTIES FFS

[martin_p]

A better way of clearing up some of these incidents is to clamp down on simulation and exaggeration - any attempt to deceive the officials by doing this should be either no penalty or a retrospective ban by a panel if the referee is unsure and still gives the penalty. As much as I dislike the inconsistency of pundits like Shearer he seems pretty spot on in his views that players are falling / diving to the ground unnaturally when they have had the slightest touches.
A few bans dished out for this would soon cut out a lot of the cheating.

If every game was refereed like the one last night with teams ending the game with nine players it’d soon stop.

[UpTheBeehole]

''There was contact, he was entitled to go down'' - probably the single phrase that is killing the enjoyment of watching football.

BAN PENALTIES FFS

Players will just two-foot players about to score then.

How would you feel if Wood was about to tap one into an empty net to win the Champions League and a defender did a two foot lunge, breaking both Wood's legs, and the ball rolled harmlessly out of play? Ref gives a goal kick, because penalties were banned.

[Bordeauxclaret]

That’s quite a leap. No pun intended.

[dsr]

Well Rugby's a completely different game. It wouldn't have been a foul if he was tapped on his heel.

In football, if you are fouled then a free kick or penalty is given.

Therefore if you are fouled, then you go down, you don't man up and carry on, because what's the point in that? You've just been fouled, go down!

Anyone not doing that is doing his team, his club, their thousands of fans an injustice. Go down lad.

That's pretty much my point. In football, as the rules are usually applied (not last night), it is considered to be a foul if there is the slightest touch between two players AND one of them flings himself on the floor. It shouldn't be. It should be a foul if you are tripped; but if you are touched and then choose of your own free will to throw yourself down, then you haven't been tripped.

[Spijed]

What are the rules regarding the ref requesting use of VAR?

For example, if the ref thinks it's clearly not penalty he won't request VAR, but what happens if he's missed something? Will they tell him so, or is it up to the ref, like an umpire as to whether the replays are used?

[dsr]

The TV official watches the telly in London, and if he thinks he might have seen anything he whispers in the ref's ear. The ref won't stop play if the ball is still live, but he won't let it restart if the ball's dead. Then the TV official can either confirm the decision is right, in which case the crowd may not even notice it's been looked at; or he can say he thinks the decision's wrong and suggest the referee should watch it on screen; or he can say the decision is clearly wrong and advise the ref to change the decision. If he says it's clearly wrong, the ref still has the option to go and look at the screen and stick with his original decision - the VAR doesn't overrule, it just advises.

I don't think the primary idea is for the ref to get advice from the VAR before making his decision. The ref makes a decision first, then gets TV confirmation or denial. But they're in contact through their earpieces, so I'd be surprised if there isn't a bit of chat before decisions like (eg.) red cards.

[quoonbeatz]

the willian is a difficult one from the refs viewpoint but it was a foul and should have been reviewed by the video ref. the defender got nowhere near the ball. its willian's own fault though because he had no reason not to stay on his feet and thats a good thing because its the mindset of the players that needs to change.

the first instinct has to be to try and stay on their feet, not to go down, because there isn't a 'right to go down'. if you go down it has to be because you couldn't stay up. and tied in with this, referees have to change their mindset as well, in that its not only a foul if the player goes down. a lot of education and culture change needed here but its a step in the right direction.

the pedro and morata dives were called spot on and its great to see players actually being sent off for cheating.

[JohnMac]

Quoonbeatz summary is spot on.

[ClaretTony]

Looking back, it does seem that it was the correct decision to book Arfield when he went down against Everton if any consistency is applied.

That one was definitely the correct decision

[turfytopper]

Even if he had done it doesn't stop the debate. Jermaine Jenas is trotting out the "It's a penalty, there's contact" b*ll*cks as usual but I think he deliberately made contact and was already falling over at that point anyway so no penalty. The VAR thing won't alter the debate about what is or isn't a pen.

Exactly.... If this was an example of there being an exaggerated "fall" following minimal contact, then this is exactly how I'd like things to be....... Given that two offences take place, then the referee should (as per the laws of the game) penalise the more serious offence... And that would be simulation as it warrants a yellow card. As I believe the ref carded the Chelsea player then thats that's the probably the way it was played out.

[scouseclaret]

It's just like umpire's call in cricket. The VAR only over-rules the ref if there is a clear and obvious mistake. That obviously wasn't the case with Willian as people are still debating it. You can make a case for Willian being halfway down by the time contact is made; you can make a good case for it being a careless challenge and Willian taking evasive action.

As far as I'm concerned though, if players/teams repeatedly try to con the ref as Chelsea did last night they don't deserve to get the benefit of the doubt. I think Graham Scott's performance was heroic!