The signs of positive change...

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:39 am

Tarky signing a long term deal.
Aaron Lennon signing from Everton.
Dyche signing a long term deal.

These three deals in the past few weeks have really pointed the club in a new direction in my opinion. For us to be in the position to offer long term deals to a highly rated player and our highly regarded manager is hugely impressive and shows a step change from what we've had before. No more rolling contracts or selling highly rated players for fear of losing them on a free!! I've said on other threads what I think about Lennon so I'll keep it brief; experience, quality, pace.

Twelve months ago we wouldn't have been in the position to complete the type of deals we have in recent weeks. Maybe there's some real belief from within and outside the club around what we can achieve as a collective. You only need to look at the table to see that the top half of the PL is well within our reach. Nobody wants to get carried away but there's no reason why we can't aim to push the club on another level over the next couple of years. Maybe Europe is the next aim after all!!

Anyway,given the usual negative guff we get on here, I just thought I'd point this out. This is a really positive time to be a Claret regardless of the run we're on. UTC!

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:35 am

Or the signs of chaos if we get relegated, take your choice.
Certainly the Board see themselves as managing an established Premier League club, that's when bad decisions are made.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:36 am

jlup1980 wrote:Tarky signing a long term deal.
Aaron Lennon signing from Everton.
Dyche signing a long term deal.

These three deals in the past few weeks have really pointed the club in a new direction in my opinion. For us to be in the position to offer long term deals to a highly rated player and our highly regarded manager is hugely impressive and shows a step change from what we've had before. No more rolling contracts or selling highly rated players for fear of losing them on a free!! I've said on other threads what I think about Lennon so I'll keep it brief; experience, quality, pace.

Twelve months ago we wouldn't have been in the position to complete the type of deals we have in recent weeks. Maybe there's some real belief from within and outside the club around what we can achieve as a collective. You only need to look at the table to see that the top half of the PL is well within our reach. Nobody wants to get carried away but there's no reason why we can't aim to push the club on another level over the next couple of years. Maybe Europe is the next aim after all!!

Anyway,given the usual negative guff we get on here, I just thought I'd point this out. This is a really positive time to be a Claret regardless of the run we're on. UTC!

I read recently that part of United's reckoning in offering Sanchez such an enormous contract was to do with the new PL tv money tendering process, which is again expected to dwarf it's predecessor. The value rose by 70% last time, and the new deal starts the season after next. The winner and package figures are due to be announced at the end of February.

Perhaps the club is committing to trying to ensure that we are still in the Prem when this deal comes to fruition which again will take us up another couple of levels, perhaps if not more.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:38 am

3 points out of 21 suggests we might be finding the wrong level.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:38 am

The Tarkowski signing, added to the four year deals given to Cork, Taylor and Wood in the summer are real signs of our club having moved forward. It's difficult to understand how anyone can be negative right now given how our club is being built, nice and steadily, debt free, capable of dealing with a potential relegation to remain strong if it came to that.

Incredible and brilliant time to be a Burnley supporter.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:44 am

There is always the danger of relegation for clubs like us, but at this moment in time we are about we are about as secure as anyone can be in the this division (at least 1 1/2 seasons away from the drop).

I don't think its a coincidence that all the above things have happened at this time, and it would be very foolish (or just plain click bait) to try to argue otherwise.

Its the best time for a fan under fifty to support us, and its about time some started realising that.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:45 am

ClaretTony wrote:The Tarkowski signing, added to the four year deals given to Cork, Taylor and Wood in the summer are real signs of our club having moved forward. It's difficult to understand how anyone can be negative right now given how our club is being built, nice and steadily, debt free, capable of dealing with a potential relegation to remain strong if it came to that.

Incredible and brilliant time to be a Burnley supporter.

I can imagine the steam coming out of abc's ears as he tries feverishly to think of his next negative retort. Some will never be happy.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:46 am

I don't know which is better, seeing the club progressing or abc trying his best to talk it down...

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:47 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its the best time for a fan under fifty to support us, and its about time some started realising that.

Given that this is the best we've had since that little purple patch from 1973 to 1975, that's spot on. I'm 66, so well over 50, yet apart from those two years and my very first years watching us (up to 1966) this is without any doubt the best time to be a Burnley supporter.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:52 am

I just see an opportunity missed and some decisions that might have far reaching consequences for us.
If I saw it as positive I'd be saying so, I don't.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:53 am

The SD deal puts us in a straight-jacket which both parties might come to regret.

Ric_C · Post by **Ric_C** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:55 am

Jesus H Crist give it a rest you spambot

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:55 am

ablueclaret wrote:I just see an opportunity missed and some decisions that might have far reaching consequences for us.
If I saw it as positive I'd be saying so, I don't.

Go on then, what are the opportunities missed?

Do you think we could be doing even better than we are?

I presume you realise (or not) that we have to have a certain wage structure, otherwise we wouldn't be able to get players like Defour.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:55 am

ClaretTony wrote:Given that this is the best we've had since that little purple patch from 1973 to 1975, that's spot on. I'm 66, so well over 50, yet apart from those two years and my very first years watching us (up to 1966) this is without any doubt the best time to be a Burnley supporter.

To true and apart from a couple of years it's been good since Stan came in. Promotion, Ian Wright Gazza, Wembley and PL, Goals galore under Eddie and now the current stewardship who are doing a remarkable job. Thank you to all of them.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:57 am

It's always been fun being a Burnley supporter and although this might be the best we have achieved in terms of league position it is certainly not the most entertaining.

jordsclarets · Post by **jordsclarets** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:59 am

ablueclaret wrote:It's always been fun being a Burnley supporter and although this might be the best we have achieved in terms of league position it is certainly not the most entertaining.

When did you last watch a game at Turf Moor?

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:59 am

Edit: deleted post, you’re not worth it.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:03 am

ablueclaret wrote:The SD deal puts us in a straight-jacket which both parties might come to regret.

We won’t regret it when they put you in a straight-jacket. That’s assuming you aren’t already in one.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:03 am

Sidney1st wrote:I don't know which is better, seeing the club progressing or abc trying his best to talk it down...

It must be a difficult time to be "needy negative". How can claim they know better when the club has not been more secure in 50 years if ever, the team is competing with some of richest football clubs in the world on the pitch and bringing in players hoping to make their International squads for the summer. I guess for some life was much better when the club was unable to compete with Rochdale and Northampton either on the field or in the transfer market.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:14 am

Lancasterclaret wrote: Its the best time for a fan under fifty to support us, and its about time some started realising that.

Being only four months from my 50th birthday and having started going on the Turf in 1975, I can confirm this to be 100% correct.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:20 am

I don't see the point of knocking ABC anymore, it's time to feel sorry for him.
Everyone has an opinion, but when you,re the sole negator on a board as large as this one, yet you still can't see your wrong, it's sad.
He sits in his lonely room with no one to talk to. His only contact with the outside world is a keyboard to people who don't even want him.
3000 posts pretending to be a Claret, to try and find some friends, and yet he still cuts a lonely figure.
It brings a tear to my eye, the turmoil and emptiness he must be feeling inside. The greater our achievements the greater the pain, consider what the last 10 years have to to this shell of a human being. Please don't kick him when he's down. Just put a few coppers in his hat and walk away.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:28 am

ablueclaret wrote:Or the signs of chaos if we get relegated, take your choice.
Certainly the Board see themselves as managing an established Premier League club, that's when bad decisions are made.

You're not really a Claret are you.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:31 am

I think the Stan Ternent era did start things off to an extent and make it seem like we could achieve success again. To have witnessed the season we nearly dropped out of the league to this makes it even sweeter. For the fans who witnessed the 60s team to the Orient game and back to this it must be even more special. Fans of most other clubs will never experience such highs and lows.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:33 am

ablueclaret wrote:I just see an opportunity missed and some decisions that might have far reaching consequences for us.
If I saw it as positive I'd be saying so, I don't.

I left a forum eventually because of a Rover pretending to be a Claret, although to be fair he had over 60 user names and was a complete pain in the aris. You seem to be just an irritant.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:38 am

Blackrod wrote:I think the Stan Ternent era did start things off to an extent and make it seem like we could achieve success again. To have witnessed the season we nearly dropped out of the league to this makes it even sweeter. For the fans who witnessed the 60s team to the Orient game and back to this it must be even more special. Fans of most other clubs will never experience such highs and lows.

I am one of those (well my first game was in '68) and you are right. The phrase 'to hell and back' was made for our club I think.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:41 am

You must be a quick drinker abc, your glass always seems to be half empty

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:51 am

ablueclaret wrote:I just see an opportunity missed and some decisions that might have far reaching consequences for us.
If I saw it as positive I'd be saying so, I don't.

Unbelievable.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:58 am

Already this season we have brought in 5 players over the age of 30, in a season when we've never had a better opportunity of recruiting dynamic young talent, for me that is a complete volte-face from the clubs policy of buy in young and sell on profitably.
Think Trippier Mee Tarkowski Ings Vokes Darwikwa that was the way to go, now we are buying in aged pros who's value both on and off the field is only downwards, and sadly clubs who historically have adopted this approach tend to head that way.
Be optimistic by all means, but for me the trajectory we are following fills me with doubt not joy, and there have been joyous times playing at a lower level than this

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:00 am

My wife enjoyed that one Colburn, she says it should be framed.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:07 am

It's the direction of travel which concerns me.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:14 am

Darikwa???

Ageing pros with younger players added on like Taylor.
It's all about the right mix, something you aren't interested in.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:23 am

ablueclaret wrote:Already this season we have brought in 5 players over the age of 30, in a season when we've never had a better opportunity of recruiting dynamic young talent, for me that is a complete volte-face from the clubs policy of buy in young and sell on profitably.
Think Trippier Mee Tarkowski Ings Vokes Darwikwa that was the way to go, now we are buying in aged pros who's value both on and off the field is only downwards, and sadly clubs who historically have adopted this approach tend to head that way.
Be optimistic by all means, but for me the trajectory we are following fills me with doubt not joy, and there have been joyous times playing at a lower level than this

I've had this discussion with others in the past. The reason we brought in young, untested, value signings was due to our financial and league position at that time. We could blood players like Trippier, Ings, Mee, Vokes and Darikwa in the Championship. We can't possibly expect to do that in the PL. If we wanted to bring in young players with the quality to play in the PL they'd cost us an absolute fortune in transfer fees. Look at this Worrall kid from Forest, they want £15m and he wouldn't get a kick at the moment. We can't spend £15m on a player who'll warm the bench, even if they're a prospect for the future.

SD has played this season just right. He's trusted Tarky and Pope to fill in for two major players and brought in ready-to-go players with plenty of PL experience to push us onto the next level. Cork was an absolute masterstroke of a signing. Bardsley has played his fair share of games and it's not SD's fault Walters has struggled with injuries. Stoke fans were disappointed he was leaving as they saw him as a useful squad player; something he would have been for us as well had injuries not restricted him. The only questionable signing was Wells but I understand why we signed him; a like for like replacement for Gray. If Wood, Brady and Ward had remained fit I suspect we'd be about 5 or 6 points better off than we are now. We're a very good team but we're still in transition from a Championship team to a PL team. Once SD gets us where he wants us to be I'm sure we'll look into the possibility of bringing in more youthful players. Trust the guy, he knows what he's doing!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:28 am

Abc would complain if we only signed younger players, just for the sake of it.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:29 am

I'm looking at the future of the club as the Board should be doing and the highest of our priorities should have been to bring in two young defenders, a young keeper, a young winger and striker. Tarka may have signed a long-term contract but both he and Mee will become targets at the end of the season whether we like it or not, In too many areas of the pitch our cover is old men in footballing terms when football wisdom always dictates that it should be young blood.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:32 am

ablueclaret wrote:It's the direction of travel which concerns me.

I dont mind ablue. And his realism is sometimes refreshing when all around get too giddy. He would probably be the man in chatge of purse strings in the board room...

Interesting observation but in this case wrong ABC.... So with that in mind lets look st the trajectory since Dyche came in.

Year 1 stability championship
Year 2 promotion championship
Year 3 relegation premier league
Year 4 promotion championship. Unbeaten for half a season and champions.
Year 5 stability premier league
Year 6 stability premier league AT LEAST.

The progress we have made is pheonomenal. And beyond anyones wildest imagination. The football could improve. But first and foremost Dyche is a pragmatist. And even though we score few I am rarely bored.

We have evolved. And i believe that our style is improving slowly. Now we are all but safe I expect a few more attack minded games with Lennon and Nkoudou on board.

In addition to the progress in league positions, Dyche has broken so many records and got so money monkeys off our back its almost impossible to doubt him.

Ending the run against rovers
Unbeaten against rovers
23 games unbeaten
Winning away regularly at grounds we rareley even scored at
Beating the reigning champions every season we have been in the premier league

Every one of these seasons bar last have been done by spending less than we have spent.

Incredible.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:34 am

I've no problem with buying players up to the age of 28, and obviously every side has its sprinkling of squad players over 30 but to purchase 5 over 30's is quite honestly ridiculous.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:34 am

ablueclaret wrote:I'm looking at the future of the club as the Board should. Tarka may have signed a long-term contract but both he and Mee will become targets at the end of the season whether we like it or not, In too many areas of the pitch our cover is old men in footballing terms when football wisdom always dictates that it should be young blood.

That's exactly why we've got players on long-term contracts, you tool.
Same for Sean Dyche.
It increases their value to Burnley Football Club.

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:34 am

ClaretTony wrote:Given that this is the best we've had since that little purple patch from 1973 to 1975, that's spot on. I'm 66, so well over 50, yet apart from those two years and my very first years watching us (up to 1966) this is without any doubt the best time to be a Burnley supporter.

I would agree!
62 this June and along with the early 60s European journeys it's a great time to be a claret.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:36 am

Oh. And he has produced 3 England internationals while at the club and 2 more in Trippier and Ings not long after they played under him.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:37 am

ClaretTony wrote:The Tarkowski signing, added to the four year deals given to Cork, Taylor and Wood in the summer are real signs of our club having moved forward. It's difficult to understand how anyone can be negative right now given how our club is being built, nice and steadily, debt free, capable of dealing with a potential relegation to remain strong if it came to that.

Incredible and brilliant time to be a Burnley supporter.

And yet still time after time after time we get the constant and usual negativity from ablueclaret

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:38 am

Walters - injured.
Bardsley - played and done a steady job.
The GK - just a reserve.

Who were the other 2 over 30 yrs old?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:38 am

jlup1980 wrote:I've had this discussion with others in the past. The reason we brought in young, untested, value signings was due to our financial and league position at that time. We could blood players like Trippier, Ings, Mee, Vokes and Darikwa in the Championship. We can't possibly expect to do that in the PL. If we wanted to bring in young players with the quality to play in the PL they'd cost us an absolute fortune in transfer fees. Look at this Worrall kid from Forest, they want £15m and he wouldn't get a kick at the moment. We can't spend £15m on a player who'll warm the bench, even if they're a prospect for the future.

This is pretty much what I was going to post, until I read the thread completely through.

Ablue seems to want us to try and blood youngsters at the same time of trying to reach the 40 points and then finish as high up in the Prem as possible - that aint going to happen, unless you spend an obscene amount of money on transfer fees and wages. And that would be past the point of risk vs reward which the club rightly look strongly at.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:39 am

Sidney1st wrote:Walters - injured.
Bardsley - played and done a steady job.
The GK - just a reserve.

Who were the other 2 over 30 yrs old?

Lennon and Lindegaard?

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:40 am

I am not trying to take any credit away from SD, he gets the plaudits and this season he adopted a formation I was calling for all last season so I have no grouse there, but this plethora of 30+ signings when our success has largely come about through the maturing of young blood worries me.
We are dealing more with the instance than the future and for me long-term planning is vital for a club such as ours, and at present we have forgotten that.
We are taking on a lot of potential future costs without future certainty, always a recipe for problems.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:41 am

If we can't get 40 points this season with the squad we've got the future is indeed bleak.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:42 am

ablueclaret wrote:I am not trying to take any credit away from SD, he gets the plaudits and this season he adopted a formation I was calling for all last season so I have no grouse there, but this plethora of 30+ signings when our success has largely come about through the maturing of young blood worries me.
We are dealing more with the instance than the future and for me long-term planning is vital for a club such as ours, and at present we have forgotten that.
We are taking on a lot of potential future costs without future certainty, always a recipe for problems.

Or you could say we are showing faith in what we are trying to achieve and the staff tasked to achieve it.

All depends on your personality, really

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:42 am

Trying to decide if ablueclaret is more like Private Frazer from Dad's Army ("we're doomed!") or Norris from Coronation Street

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:42 am

boatshed bill wrote:Lennon and Lindegaard?

I'd forgotten about the other GK and Lennon has barely got through the door.

I'm impressed at the levels ABC is desperately sinking too.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:43 am

No problem with Tarka being offered a long-term contract but don't pretend it means he's going to stay here just that we might get more for him come the season end.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 am

More with the instance than the future?

Gawthorpe is for the future.
Academy set up is for the future.
Taylor will replace Ward.
Pope will probably replace Heaton long term.
Another year in the PL to follow which means more money which can be used for future things.

Yes, it's all about the here and now clearly