Scousers vs YamYams - VAR mess

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:36 pm

Correct decisions as result of VAR maybe but far too disruptive for me. What do others think?

LordBob · Post by **LordBob** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:39 pm

I'm with you on this and fans being robbed of game time only 4 mins when there was at least 8 mins down time, this is a joke!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:39 pm

Taking far too long.

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Ridiculous. No thanks.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:42 pm

Has it been made even worse with Michael Owen talking? Or have they given the viewers a day off.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:42 pm

terrible idea, takes far too long. Doesn't help when the majority of referees are clueless anyway.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:43 pm

When the 4 mins went up there had been 3 goals, 2 suns and 2 VAR decisions, one taking over three minutes.

The penalty was touch and go but if he gives it why no card.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:46 pm

If this is what football is going to be, then I’m done

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:49 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Has it been made even worse with Michael Owen talking? Or have they given the viewers a day off.

Owen nowhere to be seen fortunately!

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:50 pm

It looked a penalty but the camera didn't zoom in far enough to show the shirt move when he grabbed him. You have to be sure with video evidence and I don't trust the modern day footballer at all.

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:51 pm

I think it is a great idea and is in its early days
Will get better and speed up
Would have sorted out the Arsenal hand ball goal at Turf Moor last season in stoppage time

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:58 pm

Why do the referee's not speak through a microphone that plays to the crowd like in rugby it would clear up some of the confusion. After 4 minutes the whole celebration of a goal is ruined.

Shappie · Post by **Shappie** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Agree KRBFC. totally ruined the moment for WBA

LordBob · Post by **LordBob** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:27 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:I think it is a great idea and is in its early days
Will get better and speed up
Would have sorted out the Arsenal hand ball goal at Turf Moor last season in stoppage time

As you say it is early day's and if it can be refined all well and good but if TV scheduling has the final say then its gonna cause a lot of anger imagine a game where over 90 mins there is a total of 12 or 15 mins to be added, it can happen and the refs get the word in the ear THIS PROGRAMME HAS TO END ON TIME at the end of the day its their money.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:34 pm

It’s being trialled isn’t it?

Still plenty of time to speed it up and improve it.

The authorities can’t win really. Some fans don’t want to give VAR more than a handful of games before ditching it. Others have no time at all for mistakes made by referees.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:35 pm

The biggest stumbling block is the players, management and fans who don't accept the decisions.
They don't want correct decisions, just decisions that benefit their team.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The biggest stumbling block is the players, management and fans who don't accept the decisions.
They don't want correct decisions, just decisions that benefit their team.

Indeed. No patience for human error. No patience for trialling something to help lessen the impact of those errors.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:43 pm

The referee shouldn’t ask for var, it should be for the captains to challenge it. Two challenges per team, if you win your challenge you don’t lose it.

That would speed it up a bit.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:50 pm

Whatever you think,they managed to get the result right between them..

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:35 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:I think it is a great idea and is in its early days
Will get better and speed up
Would have sorted out the Arsenal hand ball goal at Turf Moor last season in stoppage time

I think clubs like us will be net beneficiaries. For that reason im actually not convinced it will stay around.

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The biggest stumbling block is the players, management and fans who don't accept the decisions.
They don't want correct decisions, just decisions that benefit their team.

Absolutely.
If players didn't spend so much time trying to cheat refs, the whole game would be better.

ClaretCanada · Post by **ClaretCanada** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:50 pm

Goal or no goal, across line or not. That should be it, all aspects of the real game gone.
May as well watch Fifa 18

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:52 pm

If VAR is going to give a penalty for every single instance of a shirt being held, then there will be an awful lot of penalties.

Wilf Mbanga · Post by **Wilf Mbanga** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Danny Baker has it spot on.

“What numbs a crowd is the idea that now THEY aren't the people at the event, they are just watching something that is being judged and relayed from some remote office. If I want my drama edited in post production I can go elsewhere thanks. Supporters are now just extras at their own event. VAR MUST BE ABANDONED.”

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:00 pm

DAVETHEVICAR wrote:I think it is a great idea and is in its early days
Will get better and speed up
Would have sorted out the Arsenal hand ball goal at Turf Moor last season in stoppage time

That goal would have definitely stood under VAR because it was clear there was no intent from Koscielny and once you've got clear video evidence you take away the wriggle room that refs have (but bizarrely didn't use on that occasion) where they give the handball anyway because it went in.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:04 pm

thatdberight wrote:That goal would have definitely stood under VAR because it was clear their was no intent from Koscielny and once you've got clear video evidence you take away the wriggle room that refs have (but bizarrely didn't use on that occasion) where they give the handball anyway because it went in.

It might at the time but they changed a rule because of it and any goal scored off the hand intentional or not is wiped off.
Obviously the ref didn't see the Watford goal last week.

Wilf Mbanga · Post by **Wilf Mbanga** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:10 pm

VAR removes the unbridled joy of scoring. It in effect pauses the game. It takes away the spontaneity and in my view needs to go.

It also moves the game away from the fan and allows the studio bores even more things to talk about.

For the two decisions it will change a year it is not worth removing the joy from the game.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:10 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:It might at the time but they changed a rule because of it and any goal scored off the hand intentional or not is wiped off.
Obviously the ref didn't see the Watford goal last week.

Interesting. I can't find any sources for this new law / revised interpretation. Have you got any?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:12 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:If this is what football is going to be, then I’m done

Exactly this

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:13 pm

thatdberight wrote:Interesting. I can't find any sources for this new law / revised interpretation. Have you got any?

I haven't sorry but they have spoke on Sky/ BT quite a few times about it. Will have a look tomorrow see if I can find owt.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:20 pm

The fluidity of the game has been killed. Imagine a late equaliser and the goalscorer runs back with the ball to the centre circle but then having to wait for nearly 4 mins to find he actually onside anyway by a toe. By this time the opposition have refreshed, re-collected, are ready again for the kick off, atmosphere killed. Equaliser pointless.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:36 pm

Not for me thanks. Far too disruptive to the game, took far too long, and it will absolutely wreck goal celebrations.

Also, what are we going to debate after the games? That’s part of the whole experience in the pub!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:37 am

it'll speed up
it's the future and we need to welcome it. I for one am sick to death of incorrect decisions deciding games

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:48 am

Pat Nevin made an interesting point on Five Live - he said that the issues with VAR are to do with the “production” element, as in he said the TV companies can process the footage quick enough for pundits to have a view and decide within a few seconds but the VAR team haven’t learnt how to do it as quickly yet and it will come with time.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:48 am

claptrappers_union wrote:The fluidity of the game has been killed. Imagine a late equaliser and the goalscorer runs back with the ball to the centre circle but then having to wait for nearly 4 mins to find he actually onside anyway by a toe. By this time the opposition have refreshed, re-collected, are ready again for the kick off, atmosphere killed. Equaliser pointless.

Wouldn't be pointless though would it you gain a point for a draw or replay in a cup competition,the problem is if only selected matches are trialling the tech,if another match has a controversial decision people will complain that VAR isn't available they need to either make it fair for all or bin the experiment.

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:37 am

From last night’s evidence it would seem that VAR will not eliminate diving. If there’s any ‘contact’ whatsoever- players are will go down like a tonne of bricks in the hope of raising the review process.
Why was Salah not yellow carded for his ridiculous theatrics in winning the penalty? Because there was some ‘contact.’
Could be good news for Ashley Barnes mind.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:10 am

You’re missing my point. I’m not on about the correct decision or not. I’m on about the pressure, the drama and the advantage.

The VAR last night ruled out a goal that was offside by a players big toe. And could only be decided by slowing the footage right down - frame by frame and overlaying blue lines. Come on. Even if he was onside, he still would’ve scored the goal. With the tug on the shirt, slowing footage right down doesn’t prove if there was enough contact to impede a player, was he going to win the ball anyway?

VAR should be used over short tournaments like International games where a team might only play 3 games. Over 38 or 46 games though VAR should only be called upon by the team captains and are subsequently cautioned if proved frivolous.

SparkyClaret · Post by **SparkyClaret** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:22 pm

How do you prove a frivolous appeal? No one in their right mind will ask for a review of an obvious goal, so it comes down to the captain’s decision in your version of VAR. if the captain is wrong, does he get cautioned? That would be utterly ridiculous since the point of the VAR system is to allow a correct decision on an unclear situation or to rectify a glaring error

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:59 pm

SparkyClaret wrote:How do you prove a frivolous appeal? No one in their right mind will ask for a review of an obvious goal, so it comes down to the captain’s decision in your version of VAR. if the captain is wrong, does he get cautioned? That would be utterly ridiculous since the point of the VAR system is to allow a correct decision on an unclear situation or to rectify a glaring error

And glaring errors don't take 4 minutes to correct, because by definition if you need 4 minutes to decide what was right, then it's not glaring.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:53 am

SparkyClaret wrote:How do you prove a frivolous appeal? No one in their right mind will ask for a review of an obvious goal, so it comes down to the captain’s decision in your version of VAR. if the captain is wrong, does he get cautioned? That would be utterly ridiculous since the point of the VAR system is to allow a correct decision on an unclear situation or to rectify a glaring error

Because it can stop the game for a few minutes. Take Man City’s famous win against QPR, if they appealed Man City’s equaliser, City lose its momentum, crowd goes quiet and the game restarts at a slower pace.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:13 am

I wasn't sure about it at all, but its got to stop at goal line technology and thats it.