Corbyn and Adams

[bobinho]

Apparently, Gerry Adams is backing Jezza for PM.

Well, that’s that question answered then.

#unelectable

[starting_11]

They'll be along any second...

[fidelcastro]

Apparently, Gerry Adams is backing Jezza for PM.

Well, that’s that question answered then.

#unelectable

Which question?

Who would you expect Adams to back for PM? Theresa? Arlene?

[bobinho]

The question of will Jezza condemn the IRA.

And I wouldn’t expect Adams to back anyone. He hates the United Kingdom. For that reason alone, he should keep his filthy schneb out.

[fidelcastro]

The question of will Jezza condemn the IRA.

And I wouldn’t expect Adams to back anyone. He hates the United Kingdom. For that reason alone, he should keep his filthy schneb out.

Corbyn condemns all acts of terrorism, although the term can sometimes be subjective, as we all know.

You do also know that the likes of Adams and McGuinness met the Queen, once they came in from the cold, right?

Just thought I'd point it out in the interests of balance.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm here!

What a shock to hear Adams back Corbyn, and also not a shock for it be seized on by people who are terrified that he might get in.

He's a f**king shoe in at the moment because both sides are utterly mad, but as his madness actually involves spending some cash on public services and stuff, rather than wondering about how our trade deal with Nambia (intentional mistake!) is going to replace the one with the EU.

[Bin Ont Turf]

They'll be along any second...

[Darthlaw]

He's a f**king shoe in at the moment because both sides are utterly mad but his madness actually involves giving young people free stuff in order to buy votes.

Fixed that for you, Lancs...

FWIW, you're absolutely right by the way. He's definitely going to get in at this rate, thanks to the Tories making a monumental f*#k of this term in power more so than his free stuff and magic money tree pledges.

[Wexford_Claret]

The question of will Jezza condemn the IRA.

He did condemn them in 1994: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 61801.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in 2017:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/u ... -1.3091883" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

If you are middle aged, have a house and a secure job, then you don't wonder just for a second why people younger might vote for something that is better than no house, no secure job and no prospect of either?

I'm no fan of the bloke, or his policies, but if getting the young energised in a country run by old people obsessed with the war and an Empire and with no interest in changing it so that its better for ALL ages, then he's at least doing something right.

This lot, and (definitely even worse) laughable trio lined up to replace them (Johnson, Gove, JRM) are not capable of dealing with the numerous issues that this country has.

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't think Corbyn and his equally laughable side kicks are either, but at least they offer some hope for millions who otherwise won't have any.

[mkmel]

Ah but has he condemned them in 2018?

[mkmel]

He did condemn them in 1994: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 61801.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in 2017:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/u ... -1.3091883" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah but has he condemned them in 2018?

[fidelcastro]

Ah but has he condemned them in 2018?

Come on be fair, he hasn't condemned them in 2019 yet.

[Lancasterclaret]

He needs to start every speech condemning everything

And we shouldn't let Muslims in the media unless they apologize for every attack as well.

Oh, and we should totally ignore any human rights abuses if its a chance to make some money out of it.

Piece of **** this Daily Mail editorial lark

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Another irrelevant comment from the right wing, so distracted by ‘patriotism’ that they fail to see society is falling apart

They said Donald Trump was unelectable and those comments made him stronger every time they were used.

[mkmel]

He needs to start every speech condemning everything

And we shouldn't let Muslims in the media unless they apologize for every attack as well.

Oh, and we should totally ignore any human rights abuses if its a chance to make some money out of it.

Piece of **** this Daily Mail editorial lark

Just seen the Daily Mail headline for tomorrow's paper


10 MILLION MIGRANTS TO ARRIVE IN THE UK BY THE END OF THE WEEK

Crikey that's a lot of migrants.

How will we cope?

[fidelcastro]

He needs to start every speech condemning everything

And we shouldn't let Muslims in the media unless they apologize for every attack as well.

Oh, and we should totally ignore any human rights abuses if its a chance to make some money out of it.

Piece of **** this Daily Mail editorial lark

On behalf of every white man, may I take this opportunity to apologise for the actions of Darren Osborne.

[Lancasterclaret]

From now on, that has to be the start of every post you make on here.

[fidelcastro]

Just seen the Daily Mail headline for tomorrow's paper


10 MILLION MIGRANTS TO ARRIVE IN THE UK BY THE END OF THE WEEK

Crikey that's a lot of migrants.

How will we cope?

And they're just the ones we know about!



https://youtu.be/5eBT6OSr1TI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[evensteadiereddie]

Adams talked a lot of sense on Marr's show this morning.

[Dy1geo]

To those younger people apart from abolishing tuition fees what has he actually promised, nationalising the railways and utilities won’t make much difference to their lives.
I wouldn’t say he is a shoe in either it’s pretty much neck and neck between Labour and the Tories and whilst he gained support in the metropolitan areas and University towns he lost support in other traditional Labour areas such as Carlisle. At the end of the day as Bill Clinton said when elected “it is the economy stupid” and if the economy tanks he will probably get in.

[AndrewJB]

“Free stuff...” hilarious. It all gets paid for in the end.

I’ve mentioned this before, but it’s always a good reminder. Before WW2 started, many countries were experiencing unemployment, and fiscal austerity. When the war began these problems disappeared. In Canada for example, the cost of sending men overseas, was greater than the sums of money it was estimated were needed (and refused) to alleviate poverty. In a lot of countries large numbers of men found the government could not only employ them, but feed and house them as well. One might argue that with a war on. and these countries facing existential crises, ordinary economic thinking could be set aside. Except the economic orthodoxy didn’t return after the war. In fact with all these countries now far more in debt and in disrepair, they went about building welfare states. This laid the groundwork for quick recovery and the greatest period of general prosperity these countries ever had. The Marshall Plan was part of this, as an enlightened measure, and also Britain had years of austerity (though not at all like today’s version), but the whole western world turned their backs on tolerating poverty and great wealth.

My brother, who is a bit of a cynic, claims this was due to the fear among our elites of having lots of well trained fighting men unwilling to put up with the old order. Personally I think our elites became more enlightened.

My point with this is our current austerity is a choice, driven by the needs of the 1% rather than the needs of everyone else. The Bank of England created nearly a trillion pounds through QE, and yet only .06% of that money made it into helping the real economy. The rest pushed up asset prices - thereby helping those with assets against those without. Had that money instead been divided between everyone equally, our economy would be in better shape, and fewer people would be struggling. We don’t need a war to get our economy going again, but a government that looks after everyone rather than just the rich.

[gtclaret]

If you are middle aged, have a house and a secure job, then you don't wonder just for a second why people younger might vote for something that is better than no house, no secure job and no prospect of either?

I'm no fan of the bloke, or his policies, but if getting the young energised in a country run by old people obsessed with the war and an Empire and with no interest in changing it so that its better for ALL ages, then he's at least doing something right.

This lot, and (definitely even worse) laughable trio lined up to replace them (Johnson, Gove, JRM) are not capable of dealing with the numerous issues that this country has.

The problem is that he is not going to give anybody anything like that he is promising. His tax raising policies will not raise anything like sufficient funds. The policies have not been properly costed and will cost far more than he is claiming. Some of the spending he is promising (NHS is an example) is not much greater than is being spent now, but he is claiming it will solve all its problems. The young are nieve and are being deceived, people are voting for a dream, that's all it is, an illusion
If he is elected, the disappointment could have dangerous consequences, the money big business will move out of the country in order to avoid tax will be devastating. I fear the rise of the far right. It could change Britain for ever

[evensteadiereddie]

Don't be daft. If he does get in it won't be by a large enough majority to bring in the massive changes this country needs- that is, unless, May and Co. continue to **** up everything they touch.

[gtclaret]

Don't be daft. If he does get in it won't be by a large enough majority to bring in the massive changes this country needs- that is, unless, May and Co. continue to **** up everything they touch.

Yes I agree with that, but I am talking about people voting for his policies, which simply are not possible

[PaintYorkClaretnBlue]

If you are middle aged, have a house and a secure job, then you don't wonder just for a second why people younger might vote for something that is better than no house, no secure job and no prospect of either?

I'm no fan of the bloke, or his policies, but if getting the young energised in a country run by old people obsessed with the war and an Empire and with no interest in changing it so that its better for ALL ages, then he's at least doing something right.

This lot, and (definitely even worse) laughable trio lined up to replace them (Johnson, Gove, JRM) are not capable of dealing with the numerous issues that this country has.

This country is f**cked, I couldn’t vote for either of the front two parties, I don’t trust either of them to run the country!

[Herts Clarets]

I was hoping this was a double RIP post....

[tiger76]

The polls have both majors on about 42% currently if these was the result on election night,Labour could gain a small majority say 15-20 seats but Corbyn and his cabinet may well find the moderate Labour back benchers could stop any radical economy policies,and it's entirely possible that we have another hung Parliament,Labour would be the largest party but might need supply and confidence agreements,with LibDems who should make modest headway in seats at least,SNP though they could suffer seat losses again due to tactical Unionist voters,Plaid who may push for further powers for the Welsh Assembly,SDLP or Greens,assuming this Parliament runs for a full term neither May or Corbyn may be in their current leadership roles,Vince Cable will be pushing 80 an d obviously the elephant in the room is Brexit. Far too many unpredictables to confidently forecast an election 4 years hence.

[thatdberight]

He's a f**king shoe in...

I wouldn’t say he is a shoe in...

Where will this shoe be going?

[hampsteadclaret]

...desperation and insecurity*
-------------------------------------------

21 - 'Adams talked a lot of sense on Marr's show this morning..'

He usually does, he is a very smart bloke.

When the history books are written, somewhere down the line, he will be seen as one of the most formidable politicians of this age, whether you like it or not.

I saw the full interview with Andrew Marr this morning, he said a lot more than the OP has suggested.

- for example he was critical of the Warrington bombing in which young Tim Parry was killed.

I don't see the OP mentioning that though, possibly because it doesn't suit his narrow, tired and tedious and overdone agenda.

22 - 'I wouldn’t say he is a shoe in either'...well I wouldn't either, but do you think he would be the leader of the largest party if there was an election this week?

I'll give you a clue - why do you think the Tory Party have not dared to put a size ten up the rear end of that dismal useless uninspiring failing woman in charge...yes you got it.

24..you say - ' His tax raising policies will not raise anything like sufficient funds'

How can you say that with any credibility? - that is just biased guesswork. You don't know.

How much tax will be raised in a particular situation is determined by many many factors..for example whether the economy is in recession or growing at 3% a year.
- those two situations will yield very very different totals of tax revenue..maybe you could explain your daft statement?

[CrosspoolClarets]

The Tories would win by a landslide if only they had an inspiring leader who promised to treat the whole country fairly, geographically and in terms of income or wealth. It would also help if they stopped looking solely after big business, they don’t focus on the millions of small businesses enough although they are nowhere near the scandalous big business protectionism of the EU (e.g. VW emissions scandal brushed under the carpet when we have hundreds or thousands dead due to it).

I firmly believe many Tories want to govern in the way I’ve suggested, but they need to be put into power. Gove is one who would be excellent. There are others (not just Brexiteers).

Lancaster is right in pointing out why many young folk (under 50) feel Corbyn is the only option. The trouble is, a hard left Marxist being promoted by the former IRA head may appeal to a few idealists but will never get mass support.

It amazes me the stuff the young believe in nowadays. Was I really that naive 20 years ago? Like the total rubbishing of the British Empire as some kind of evil entity akin to great atrocities of history. I must have imagined my history classes talking about how these countries benefited from law and order, infrastructure, democracy, education, and, most importantly of all, the English language (without which we would almost certainly be a backwater with a strange language nobody understands that nobody wants to invest in).

These young folk will never become less left wing until they mature, like happened to many of us including me (my dad was a shop steward and I was a rabid red when I was 18) but the rump Of Corbyn’s support would abandon him pronto if the Tories got their act together.

[CrosspoolClarets]

P.s. on the subject of tax raising and spending, I generally agree that tax revenue will plummet, the pound will plummet and interest rates surge. It will be a disaster I feel sure. Not evidence, a judgement. I may be wrong. But there are one or two aspects that others should copy, like capital infrastructure spending. We do need to do more threre.

[Rowls]

Corbyn condemns all acts of terrorism

All forms of terrorism are equal but some are more equal than others.

Which is why you can find find Jeremy Corbyn is never afraid to condemn the UK but always wishes to stress there is "violence done on all sides" when a Communist or Marxist government is perpetrating the violence.

[AndrewJB]

To those younger people apart from abolishing tuition fees what has he actually promised, nationalising the railways and utilities won’t make much difference to their lives.
I wouldn’t say he is a shoe in either it’s pretty much neck and neck between Labour and the Tories and whilst he gained support in the metropolitan areas and University towns he lost support in other traditional Labour areas such as Carlisle. At the end of the day as Bill Clinton said when elected “it is the economy stupid” and if the economy tanks he will probably get in.

I’m not young, however I have children ranging in age from 8 to 18 - so I’ll have a crack on their behalf. If you look at his platform during the leadership elections it was about making Labour more democratic as a party. He wants to enable ideas to flow up, rather than just being imposed from above. When is the last time the Tory rank and file elected a leader? Corbyn believes in looking after everyone, rather than just the rich. Seven years of Tory government have left the poor, disabled, unemployed, and most of the middle class worse off; though the richest are richer than ever. Im a remain voter, but I’m sure not alone in loving the “take back control” line - so owning our own utilities and railways might give my children affordable transport. The Tories are so wedded to privatisation they’ve bailed failing companies. And for industrial strategy, his is green and makes sense to younger people. More jobs in new and more innovative industries. And the Tory industrial policy is what? National Défense. You might like Trident, but you’ll be hard pressed to persuade my daughters it’s a good idea, and you’re welcome to debate this with them. Corbyn has gone with his party in terms of keeping Trident. Corbyns foreign.policy is also ethical, so arms deals with dodgy powers will also come to an end. That’ll please the kids. Another area to take public ownership of. The overriding interest of the UK arms industry should be the Défense of the realm. And “realm” should mean “us all”

[Lord Rothbury]

We have seen this week how Labour are planning to run their campaign .The Antifa and Momentum thugs preventing freedom of speech was disgraceful.What was it their leader McDonnell once said "there is a place for the ballot the bomb and the bullet in politics "

[nil_desperandum]

A lot of talk about Corbyn and tax, big businesses leaving etc. Who knows?
Far more likely I reckon that we will lose big businesses and our financial services if we have the sort of "no deal" brexit that we would most likely get if JRM, Boris and Gove come to power.
Mrs May is hopeless but whilst she hangs in there, we are spared this choice at the ballot box. Everything now depends on whether she is able to take on and defeat the right-wing in what increasingly looks like an imminent internecine battle for the "soul" of the Tory party

[AndrewJB]

The problem is that he is not going to give anybody anything like that he is promising. His tax raising policies will not raise anything like sufficient funds. The policies have not been properly costed and will cost far more than he is claiming. Some of the spending he is promising (NHS is an example) is not much greater than is being spent now, but he is claiming it will solve all its problems. The young are nieve and are being deceived, people are voting for a dream, that's all it is, an illusion
If he is elected, the disappointment could have dangerous consequences, the money big business will move out of the country in order to avoid tax will be devastating. I fear the rise of the far right. It could change Britain for ever

If your arguments were for maintaining slavery, they wouldn’t be much different.

[Lancasterclaret]

I fear the rise of the far right. It could change Britain for ever

Think you are a bit late with that one!

Like the total rubbishing of the British Empire as some kind of evil entity akin to great atrocities of history. I must have imagined my history classes talking about how these countries benefited from law and order, infrastructure, democracy, education, and, most importantly of all, the English language (without which we would almost certainly be a backwater with a strange language nobody understands that nobody wants to invest in).

To put it quite simply, being the best at being an Empire does not mean its was a good thing. And the bad things that the British Empire did are not (well, not when you and me where at school!) taught so people have a romantic idea of what it means. Put it one way, when people go on about the empire being great, and then go on about "reconnecting" after Brexit, I think they might be in for a bit of a shock!

[gtclaret]

I am against what Corbin claims are his asperations, I am saying that his policies will achieve the exact opposite if he tried. There will be no public services and widespread poverty. There is also a very nasty side which this economic deception is trying to hide

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Happy to see the Tories in meltdown and negotiations going as badly as possible.

It’s all feeding the likelyhood of change next time round.

Playing the long game Jeremy!

[Lancasterclaret]

I am against what Corbin claims are his asperations, I am saying that his policies will achieve the exact opposite if he tried. There will be no public services and widespread poverty. There is also a very nasty side which this economic deception is trying to hide

Not disagreeing with that, though I think (as I fear) if he gets in after Brexit the effects will be even worse

[UpTheBeehole]

We have seen this week how Labour are planning to run their campaign .The Antifa and Momentum thugs preventing freedom of speech was disgraceful.What was it their leader McDonnell once said "there is a place for the ballot the bomb and the bullet in politics "

What was more disgusting was Rees-Mogg's bodyguard punching an innocent woman.

The 'thug' you are talking about was simply saying to Rees-Mogg 'Debate me'. The way this has been twisted by the right wing is typical of them.

[Lancasterclaret]

Though that is true, we are a lot closer to political figures having unofficial bodyguards

Suspect those that would volunteer to bodyguards the likes of Corbyn and Jacob Rees Mogg are the sort of people who view dissent in a way that would be markedly totalitarian.

[UpTheBeehole]

I don't even understand why the right would even try and claim that Rees-Mogg was attacked, when there are multiple camera angles showing no such attack took place.

What happened was a man loudly asked Rees-Mogg some questions, and then a right wing mob turned up and started throwing punches at women.

Disgusting.

[Lancasterclaret]

I understand why UTB, and it is fairly obvious.

It no longer matters about facts and evidence, they want to show masked activists attacking someone they regard as a role model.

I personally don't understand why those activists decided to turn up masked, as its just asking for this to happen, but hey thats because I've got half a brain and can see how stuff like this looks.

[dermotdermot]

The sooner this filth is removed, by whatever means, the better.

[CrosspoolClarets]

To put it quite simply, being the best at being an Empire does not mean its was a good thing. And the bad things that the British Empire did are not (well, not when you and me where at school!) taught so people have a romantic idea of what it means. Put it one way, when people go on about the empire being great, and then go on about "reconnecting" after Brexit, I think they might be in for a bit of a shock!

I agree that people should be taught a balanced view, the trouble is kids today, more than we were, are taught an overly liberal distortion (e.g. empire has to be bad because of slavery and indigenous relocations etc). Education can be a silver bullet, but only if teaching is accurate. The West has to defend democracy against people like the Chinese who now think there is a better way - how do we defend something if we only see the bad in it?

On the side note about reconnecting, I have been to many places in the former British Empire - the eastern US, Canada, Australia, India, Egypt, New Zealand, Jersey, Guernsey, Arab Emirates, Ireland (some were called different things then of course). They are invariably wealthier than their neighbours, and the wealthier ones tend to be where the English settled more so had an incentive to build, but in the process displaced more indigenous people. That’s a typical balanced issue where today’s wealth of those same indigenous people is in part a trade off against the unhappiness their forefathers suffered. Of course through the prism of the 21st century it would have been done a different way, but that was then and this is now.

The other thing about all those places is that they invariably love the British, and people from all those countries still come in droves to settle here. I don’t think reconnecting will be anywhere near as negative as some imply.

[CrosspoolClarets]

While I was writing the above I see a little debate has appeared about Rees Mogg and that event.

I watched the bigger video clip and yes, one person tried to defend Rees Mogg and swung an arm, no evidence they were linked to him or indeed agreed to him, they were probably upset that their event they made an effort to attend was being ruined.

The masked guys who came in though, are filth. Does anybody seriously want people like that in our country? It is defending the indefensible. We debate respectfully in this country, we don’t yell insults behind masks.

[Lancasterclaret]

Does anybody seriously want people like that in our country?

Better add that to the list of things that will get you deported in Brexit Britain!

When we talk about civilised debate, it is really important that people use evidence and fact based debate, or this kind of thing becomes the norm.

Now JRM still hasn't apologised for lying/being wrong/making stuff up about the civil service, probably because he's not under any pressure to by the people who think he's the bees knees. I'm not against him in anyway, and he's is very good on QT and stuff (though I don't agree with his views) and his big selling point is that he appears to be genuine and honest.

If he's not apologising for being wrong on this, then he loses both these things in my eyes, and its not a good look for him.