Jay Rod charged!

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:02 pm

ontario claret wrote:Footballers do this to each other all of the time. Just because the other player is coloured doesn't make it racist.

Other player was black you mean?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:16 pm

"Coloured" is the term used in Canada. It's more PC.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:20 pm

Guilty by association ie he's from Burnley.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:24 pm

ontario claret wrote:"Coloured" is the term used in Canada. It's more PC.

Used to be here but it is not PC these days apparently. Was ticked off by my son saying the coloured lad in my gsons team was a very good player.
Told that these days i should say black.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:32 pm

mdd2 wrote:Used to be here but it is not PC these days apparently. Was ticked off by my son saying the coloured lad in my gsons team was a very good player.
Told that these days i should say black.

It wasn't advisable to tick Dads of in the sixties.you need to put your foot down... With a firm hand.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:00 am

We are at that stage where he gives me advice not vice versa

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:10 am

The names we give for skin colour all seem a bit odd to me.

I've never seen a person with white skin in my entire life.

Polar Bears yes humans no.

(although it'll be pointed out that under the fur polar bears are actually black and they just reflect the colour of the surroundings)

Siddo · Post by **Siddo** » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:33 pm

ontario claret wrote:"Coloured" is the term used in Canada. It's more PC.

No it isn't. Its a derogatory term and is a put down.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:44 pm

Seems to me J R stands no chance of a fair and unbiased heating such is the F.A,s fear of being itself labelled racist .

In my opinion Bong has probably played the racist card to gain advantage for his side during the course of the match .Bong can not now back down as he would be admitting he is a cheat .

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Asked for an extension to respond to the charge:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43079270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone know why?

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:45 pm

I read somewhere that Jay was seeking the help of a lipreading expert to disprove the accusation.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:53 pm

I say "coloured". You say something else, or maybe nothing at all. Do you also pretend that there is not a difference in skin pigmentation, and that we were not born in different cultures?

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:22 pm

ontario claret wrote:I say "coloured". You say something else, or maybe nothing at all. Do you also pretend that there is not a difference in skin pigmentation, and that we were not born in different cultures?

http://www.rifemagazine.co.uk/2015/01/c ... -answered/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:32 pm

The entire point of living in a "free'" society is the right to set your own standards.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:46 pm

Siddo wrote:No it isn't. Its a derogatory term and is a put down.

when Halle Berry claims to be a person of colour, is that because she's racist?

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:03 am

Indecisive wrote:http://www.rifemagazine.co.uk/2015/01/c ... -answered/

Can't say "coloured people" but "people of colour" is ok. Who makes up these rules?

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:33 am

Yeah seems legit that white people should get to decide what is and isn't offensive/inappropriate to a black person.

Yeah, yeah...free world...free speech blah blah blah. Mate black people were, and still are, treated differently due to the colour of their skin.

My sole point was that 'coloured' isn't seen as the right term to use for a black person.

Find it pretty weird that people are trying to argue against it....or even weren't aware. To me, it's just common knowledge.

I'm not offended. You might unintentionally offend others though, which is why I pointed it out. You might just not care I guess....

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:42 am

What is a mystery to me is why anyone gives more of a toss about Jay Rodriguez than they would any other player.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:47 am

Chobulous wrote:What is a mystery to me is why anyone gives more of a toss about Jay Rodriguez than they would any other player.

A stab in the dark - because he used to play for Burnley, is from Burnley and some people on here know him and/or his family.

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:49 am

taio wrote:A stab in the dark - because he used to play for Burnley, is from Burnley and some people on here know him and/or is family.

And he's the ambassador for Pendleside Hospice

CJW · Post by **CJW** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:42 am

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:The names we give for skin colour all seem a bit odd to me.

I've never seen a person with white skin in my entire life.

Polar Bears yes humans no.

(although it'll be pointed out that under the fur polar bears are actually black and they just reflect the colour of the surroundings)

They're not white. Their fur is ivory/cream coloured.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:22 am

CJW wrote:They're not white. Their fur is ivory/cream coloured.

Sorry.
No offense meant.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:27 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:The names we give for skin colour all seem a bit odd to me.

I've never seen a person with white skin in my entire life.

Polar Bears yes humans no.

(although it'll be pointed out that under the fur polar bears are actually black and they just reflect the colour of the surroundings)

I’ve got a mate who is a polar bear and he’s absolutely fur-ious at this comment.

Sorry. I’ll get me coat.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:Can't say "coloured people" but "people of colour" is ok. Who makes up these rules?

it's easy really, "People of color" is about people first as the identifier, whereas "colored people" is the reverse.

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:02 pm

NRC wrote:it's easy really, "People of color" is about people first as the identifier, whereas "colored people" is the reverse.

I think that's maybe going to be beyond the comprehension of a couple on here mate.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:04 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Sorry.
No offense meant.

Not wanting to complicate things but polar bears skin is actually black.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:50 pm

Shore claret wrote:Not wanting to complicate things but polar bears skin is actually black.

Didn't I predict someone would come along with that lovely fact.

As the fur reflects the surroundings they'd actually look Claret if they visited Turf Moor.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Foulthrow wrote:I’ve got a mate who is a polar bear and he’s absolutely fur-ious at this comment.

Sorry. I’ll get me coat.

I'm an ambassador for PETA* and am outraged that you use the terms fur and coat in the same post.

* (or naturist)

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:01 pm

Shore claret wrote:Not wanting to complicate things but polar bears skin is actually black.

Beyond the pale, really

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:11 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:Didn't I predict someone would come along with that lovely fact.

As the fur reflects the surroundings they'd actually look Claret if they visited Turf Moor.

Have to say that's ********

The enclosure in Prague Zoo is grey as anything and they are still dulux creamy white

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:14 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Have to say that's ******** The enclosure in Prague Zoo is grey as anything and they are still dulux creamy white

OK it's supposed to reflect the surroundings.

Things don't always do as Scientists say.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Did I completely miss why the look white!

The hair of a polar bear looks white because the air spaces in each hair scatter light of all colors. The color white becomes visible to our eyes when an object reflects back all of the visible wavelengths of light, rather than absorbing some of the wavelengths.

Which is something I knew and then for some reason forgot and thought some rubbish instead.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:22 pm

A number of polar bears in zoos from around the world were turning green! These scientists discovered that the algae responsible for making the bears green were not on the SURFACE of the hairs, as originally supposed, but were INSIDE the hairs (Lewin & Robinson, 1979). The algae more than likely came from the pond waters in the bears’ enclosures.

https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/polarbear.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought they were just envious.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:26 pm

NRC wrote:it's easy really, "People of color" is about people first as the identifier, whereas "colored people" is the reverse.

But it breaks the rules of English grammar and sounds awkward that way.

Should one re-reverse it if speaking French?

Jimmymaccer · Post by **Jimmymaccer** » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:10 pm

Perhaps Jay’s Dad can discreetly Ava word like.....they could sort it out in the Billet.

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:32 am

This infuriates me. I only saw a clip of the incident and it was obvious nothing untoward was said - just watch Jay's body language when he realizes the other player has told the ref a pack of lies. Whoever the other player was he should be banned for a very long time - this makes diving in the box so insignificant.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 am

Sutton-Claret wrote:This infuriates me. I only saw a clip of the incident and it was obvious nothing untoward was said - just watch Jay's body language when he realizes the other player has told the ref a pack of lies. Whoever the other player was he should be banned for a very long time - this makes diving in the box so insignificant.

I hope that's where the evidence points Sutton-Claret.

Indeed, if we are to ensure that the crime of racism is truly abhorrent to polite society then we need to do the same to making false accusations of racism.

I have good faith in Jay and hope it is not misplaced. I also fear that the FA will fudge their verdict (or worse) and that he will not receive a fair trial. Given the lack of available evidence right now, it seems abominable that he has even been charged.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:12 pm

Rowls wrote:I hope that's where the evidence points Sutton-Claret.

Indeed, if we are to ensure that the crime of racism is truly abhorrent to polite society then we need to do the same to making false accusations of racism.

I have good faith in Jay and hope it is not misplaced. I also fear that the FA will fudge their verdict (or worse) and that he will not receive a fair trial. Given the lack of available evidence right now, it seems abominable that he has even been charged.

Agreed Rowls - but given the lack of evidence I am hoping that Jay`s people threaten the FA with legal action if they do find him guilty. If they do find him guilty I think this would be over turned by the lawyers as from everything I could see and what I have read there is absolutely no way they can tell what has been said and there are no witnesses on the pitch anywhere near them

....I think we are down to a lip reading expert deciding this.

Jay in a no win position here - even if he`s proven innocent it must have been stressful to be accused of this and unfortunately for the more ignorant people mud sticks etc

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:43 pm

As Rick_Muller said in post #100 what if Bong genuinely thinks Jay-Rod said something inappropriate, even though it's highly unlikely?

Then what? Does that mean if Bong misheard something (which looks highly likely in this case) he should automatically be called a liar if it can't be proven either way what's been said?

Would that really be a false accusation?

And what if in future a player really does say something racist, but only the two players involved know what's gone on? How should a black player deal with that situation if nothing can be proven? They would be fearful of being called a liar, simply because they can't provide any evidence.

Longtimeclaret · Post by **Longtimeclaret** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:10 pm

Bong has been annoyed about the insuiation from Jay he pongs, captured clearly via TV
In my view, that has caused him to react via a racial,slur allegation
We can all make different assumptions on the limited video evidence _thats mine

If I was Jay, when I am found innocent , I would pursue defamation and damage to my reputation to the nth degree, but I would understand if relief kicked in, and he tried to forget about the whole sorry episode
Don't condem racism for one second , but don't for one second think there has been any racial slur
I do believe Bong is less than truthful

Mattster · Post by **Mattster** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:22 pm

Spijed wrote:As Rick_Muller said in post #100 what if Bong genuinely thinks Jay-Rod said something inappropriate, even though it's highly unlikely?

Then what? Does that mean if Bong misheard something (which looks highly likely in this case) he should automatically be called a liar if it can't be proven either way what's been said?

Would that really be a false accusation?

And what if in future a player really does say something racist, but only the two players involved know what's gone on? How should a black player deal with that situation if nothing can be proven? They would be fearful of being called a liar, simply because they can't provide any evidence.

In my eyes the accusation isn't the issue if it's a case of misunderstanding. The issue I, and I'm sure Jay and his legal representatives, have is with Bong going on TV multiple times to make his statements. That's where it's gone into the realms of defamation.

If the accusation isn't upheld then this is what Bong should be made to answer for.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:34 pm

mdd2 wrote:Used to be here but it is not PC these days apparently. Was ticked off by my son saying the coloured lad in my gsons team was a very good player.
Told that these days i should say black.

20 years ago it would have been the opposite

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:08 pm

There's something of a precedent today. Firmino cleared of allegations of racism v Holgate in Liverpool v Everton game. Though the judgement is very careful NOT to accuse Holgate of a malicious charge.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... llegations

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:18 pm

LeadBelly wrote:There's something of a precedent today. Firmino cleared of allegations of racism v Holgate in Liverpool v Everton game. Though the judgement is very careful NOT to accuse Holgate of a malicious charge.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... llegations

Firmino was never charged. The FA don't charge unless they have evidence and are confident the charges will stand. No way Rodriguez will escape a ban.

ngsobob · Post by **ngsobob** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:04 pm

What interests me is the amount of time, effort and money that went into the investigation by the FA. As far as one can see, there was no-one else near enough to hear the Jay-Bong exchange. So no third party evidence. Does this indicate the FA's view that Liverpool-Everton relations are more important than West Brom-Brighton? Seems to be a different standard. We'll see.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:42 pm

Not a bad bone in Jay rods body, really feel for the lad, for all the verbal racism we see at football games, most of us can lip read to an extent, but jr never spoke a word during the incident, how many times do we see spanish players verbally abuse opposing players? They get away with it all the time, bloody FA need to sort themselves out, a set of tossers.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:47 pm

I doubt the F.A. would charge Jay without taking legal advice and without looking at all the evidence, including all the camera footage that probably isn't in the public domain.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:59 pm

The FA still receive government funding despite allegations that they covered up sexual abuse of children for years.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... on-growing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's not saying that the FA don't have the right to charge players for offences, just historically whilst their misdemeanors are reported in the press they tend to have friends in high places to protect them.
Makes them hypocrites in my eyes as they squirm their way out of scandals time and time again.

There is no way the FA should be in charge of grassroots football.