Pope or Heaton to go?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:54 pm

Seems inevitable doesn't it.

Neither deserves to be on the bench.

Would an upcoming promotion team go for Pope? Seems quite likely if you want a good deal on a PL experienced keeper.

On the other hand, do we let Tom go? After all you don't know yet how his injury is going to affect him and Pope has 6 years youth on his side.

I can't see them both here next season

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Neither will go.
A top ten team needs two top class keepers .

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Guich wrote:Neither will go.
A top ten team needs two top class keepers .

I see. So when. Someone comes in and offers one of our keepers a starting position they'll say "no thanks"

Nice to know how it works.

grapidianclaret · Post by **grapidianclaret** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Pope should go.
Apparently he s*its in the Wood's.That may explain why our star striker is taking so long to come back.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:46 pm

We're different to the other teams in the Premier League in many ways. And that's something to be proud of.

While Tom may have another five years in him that's not guaranteed. The two of them work well together.

Had we been Crystal Palace, Leicester,West Ham etc then I have no doubt Tarks, Ward, Lowton, Ash etc would have been gone long ago.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:48 pm

starting_11 wrote:I see. So when. Someone comes in and offers one of our keepers a starting position they'll say "no thanks"

Nice to know how it works.

And yet you say we don't know how Heaton's injury may affect him, so which professional football club is going to take a goalie who's had a shoulder injury and is struggling with it?

starting_11 wrote:Seems inevitable doesn't it.

No it doesn't. They'll both be here next season.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:53 pm

Difficult one this. Both have thrived after coming to Burnley but Heaton is, I think, the better keeper. Pope has done extremely well but still somehow looks a little suspect.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:53 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote: No it doesn't. They'll both be here next season.

I don't know how you can say that with conviction, seems inevitable one of them will leave, I'd personally sell Pope even though I think he's slightly better just because he'll command a bigger fee than Heaton and I think Heaton's more likely to be here for the long run. We can't afford to have a £25M keeper like Pope on the bench every game.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:55 pm

KRBFC wrote: We can't afford to have a £25M keeper like Pope on the bench every game.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:56 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:

What's funny? the fee?

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:03 pm

coffee or tea to go

...but neither Nick or Tom

both will feel they deserve 1st team and likely to stay and prove it!

They've both been wonderful for Burnley!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Well of course.

But equally as funny is the thought of us not being able to afford him to be on the bench (if he was worth the fee).

What we can't afford is to have unhappy players at the club. And that's the main reason why he may be sold if Heaton gets back to where he was pre injury.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:03 pm

I think that Pope will be the first team keeper until he absolutely cocks up or gets injured, he will be in the same position Tom was in before his injury.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Nick Pope will be our Thursday night keeper. Passport and Visas in order.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:17 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Well of course.

But equally as funny is the thought of us not being able to afford him to be on the bench (if he was worth the fee).

What we can't afford is to have unhappy players at the club. And that's the main reason why he may be sold if Heaton gets back to where he was pre injury.

£25M isn't a funny fee imo, £30M for Pickford. The finances are only going up. I think you took my point about us not being able to afford him on the bench a bit to seriously.. I didn't mean we couldn't afford to keep him there.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:52 am

I don't want to put a downer on Pope, as he has done fantastic when he's come in. To say he was untried at this level and had took several beatings for a relegated Charlton side.

However, he hasn't been made to work too hard yet, due to the defence in front of him. He's made some great saves, but in a few games, he's only had to do the basics, which is good.
He isn't the finished product yet, by a long way, so I think we can sleep easy knowing no team will be throwing 25m at him anytime soon.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:17 am

KRBFC wrote:I don't know how you can say that with conviction, seems inevitable one of them will leave, I'd personally sell Pope even though I think he's slightly better just because he'll command a bigger fee than Heaton and I think Heaton's more likely to be here for the long run. We can't afford to have a £25M keeper like Pope on the bench every game.

I imagine Pope’s poor distribution would put his market value below £25m. There’s absolutely no reason why both players won’t be here next season.

GDK · Post by **GDK** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:07 am

Too many unknowns here, not least whether Heaton can ever fully return to his usual top level after this horrible injury for a keeper. And might he be more prone to shoulder injuries from now on as a result of his surgery? We'll need a reliable back up.

But I agree, strange it seems Pope hasn't really been tested yet in the way Tom was last season. He might struggle in a team with a less organised defence, much like Keane has, and his distribution would need to improve for many teams to be interested. So unless we are offered crazy money we should keep them both for at least another season.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:17 am

KRBFC wrote:I don't know how you can say that with conviction, seems inevitable one of them will leave, I'd personally sell Pope even though I think he's slightly better just because he'll command a bigger fee than Heaton and I think Heaton's more likely to be here for the long run. We can't afford to have a £25M keeper like Pope on the bench every game.

Given how good they BOTH are would we not have them both and play them in some kind of rotation system that keeps them both happy? Just a thought.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:33 am

houseboy wrote:Given how good they BOTH are would we not have them both and play them in some kind of rotation system that keeps them both happy? Just a thought.

Unless we finish in europe theres no way this would or should happen.

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:36 am

The best goalkeeping dilemma since the mid-70s when we had Alan Stevenson and Gerry Peyton to choose from. Peyton soon moved to Fulham and Stevenson stayed and slowly, maybe not so slowly, went downhill. On reflection we should have retained Peyton.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:46 am

Can't see a rotation system working.

Keepers are quite capable of physically playing every game so there's no excuse for rest days needed.

Think it's time to get the coin out... Tails, anyone?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:33 pm

I can’t recall a game in which Heaton has had an awful game and injuries to goalkeepers are very rare(especially long term ones). So, let’s say we start with Heaton next season and Tom does his usual thing and plays very well and it will just leave Pope on the bench all season. Will he be happy with that? No.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:31 pm

houseboy wrote:Given how good they BOTH are would we not have them both and play them in some kind of rotation system that keeps them both happy? Just a thought.

It wouldn't keep them happy nor would it be a sensible approach.

CrumpetMonkey · Post by **CrumpetMonkey** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:34 pm

Can we not play with 2 keepers ? Would suit our style of parking the bus.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Chelsea couldn't even manage to keep Courtois and Cech happy so I can't see us managing to do it.

Rightfoot · Post by **Rightfoot** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Pope has had a depleted defence infront of him and its been changed constantly with injurys/suspensions to ward tarks lowton etc etc,

Pope has to stay for me he is the future

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:40 pm

KefkaClaret wrote:I can’t recall a game in which Heaton has had an awful game and injuries to goalkeepers are very rare(especially long term ones). So, let’s say we start with Heaton next season and Tom does his usual thing and plays very well and it will just leave Pope on the bench all season. Will he be happy with that? No.

I don’t think any player would be happy being on the bench all season. Does that mean that we should sell everyone who isn’t considered to be one of our strongest 11?

And the comparison with Courtois and Cech is bizarre. One is Belgium’s first choice goalkeeper and the other has had a long career in the top 4 of the Premier League. Both would walk into most sides in world football.

shulgin · Post by **shulgin** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:48 pm

What the boy Pope needs to work on in training is distribution. Namely clearing the ball under pressure and getting the ball out wide occasionally quickly. If he does that then he will be a top keeper.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:It wouldn't keep them happy nor would it be a sensible approach.

Spot on.
But if they are both contracted I'd keep them both.
Dislocations are troublesome injuries, we are not sure if Tom will recover fully yet.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:54 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I don’t think any player would be happy being on the bench all season. Does that mean that we should sell everyone who isn’t considered to be one of our strongest 11?

And the comparison with Courtois and Cech is bizarre. One is Belgium’s first choice goalkeeper and the other has had a long career in the top 4 of the Premier League. Both would walk into most sides in world football.

Yes if they're likely to fetch £20M.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:09 am

Rileybobs wrote:I don’t think any player would be happy being on the bench all season. Does that mean that we should sell everyone who isn’t considered to be one of our strongest 11?

And the comparison with Courtois and Cech is bizarre. One is Belgium’s first choice goalkeeper and the other has had a long career in the top 4 of the Premier League. Both would walk into most sides in world football.

Heaton would walk into most sides in the Prem. Palace, West Ham, Watford etc.

At least with other positions you can rotate, when do lower league teams ever rotate keepers in league games?

BFC88 · Post by **BFC88** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:15 am

Heaton for me is the far superior goalkeeper and i would expect him to be back in our goal for the start of next season.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 am

KefkaClaret wrote:Heaton would walk into most sides in the Prem. Palace, West Ham, Watford etc.

At least with other positions you can rotate, when do lower league teams ever rotate keepers in league games?

So why would we consider selling a goalkeeper that would walk into most PL sides. Heaton eventually comes back into this side because he’s the better goalkeeper.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:41 am

KRBFC wrote:I don't know how you can say that with conviction, seems inevitable one of them will leave, I'd personally sell Pope even though I think he's slightly better just because he'll command a bigger fee than Heaton and I think Heaton's more likely to be here for the long run. We can't afford to have a £25M keeper like Pope on the bench every game.

If Pope is the better keeper then why would he be on the bench every game?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:56 am

KRBFC wrote:It wouldn't keep them happy nor would it be a sensible approach.

Why?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:08 am

houseboy wrote:Why?

How would you expect either to maintain top form?
And how would the defence be affected?

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:11 am

Heaton
He our leader and leadership and ability.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:43 am

boatshed bill wrote:How would you expect either to maintain top form?
And how would the defence be affected?

I think form is only badly affected if not playing for long periods and that wouldn't be the case, that's what squad rotation is about, players not playing too often. As for the defence I think they would cope because although they differ slightly they are both excellent and inspire confidence.
I'm not saying it would definitely work out but it might be worth a go. Other clubs, notably the big clubs with the ridiculous budgets, quite often have two, three or four players all wanting the same place, how do they work it? Recently on here people have been screaming for more CB's, why would that not be the same? If Tarks and Mee for instance would be considered our normal central defence then what would we do with whoever came in if they were fairly injury free and not banned (and for CB's they don't actually receive too many bookings). In any decent PL set up now there are always players who should be in the team but they are kept out by others in form, they don't all cry and walk away.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:54 am

Heaton is the better keeper by some distance. Pope has done extremely well and will know he is the long term solution - which was what he bought into when he joined. Hope he doesn't blow the long term for a quick move elsewhere.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:04 am

Thats if heaton is the keeper he was wen he returns

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:00 pm

Why would any of them go? And why would we want them to?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:23 pm

How is it bloody difficult for people to comprehend that if you don’t get game time you will want to leave? People point to Tarkowski but everyone and their nan knew he was the replacement for Keane. I wouldn’t be surprised if Westwood left in the summer if he is still not getting games.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:41 pm

Most PL teams have 20+ in their squads, so half the players in the league are on the bench or not in the matchday squad. I'm sure they'd all prefer to be starting games but it's not possible. As others have mentioned a dislocated shoulder sounds like the sort of injury that could recur for a keeper so I don't think dropping to the bench will be the end of the world for Pope.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:45 pm

Neither.

They'll both fight for their place.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:10 pm

Goobs wrote:If Pope is the better keeper then why would he be on the bench every game?

I think Dyche will see Heaton as the first choice, club captain etc.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:12 pm

houseboy wrote:I think form is only badly affected if not playing for long periods and that wouldn't be the case, that's what squad rotation is about, players not playing too often. As for the defence I think they would cope because although they differ slightly they are both excellent and inspire confidence.
I'm not saying it would definitely work out but it might be worth a go. Other clubs, notably the big clubs with the ridiculous budgets, quite often have two, three or four players all wanting the same place, how do they work it? Recently on here people have been screaming for more CB's, why would that not be the same? If Tarks and Mee for instance would be considered our normal central defence then what would we do with whoever came in if they were fairly injury free and not banned (and for CB's they don't actually receive too many bookings). In any decent PL set up now there are always players who should be in the team but they are kept out by others in form, they don't all cry and walk away.

I don't think I've ever heard of a team rotating keepers and it's probably a good indication as to how detrimental it would be.

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:22 pm

The top six can rotate keepers as they have european football and are expected to go far in the cups. If we assigned one of our keepers to just cup football they would probably only get 3 games a season.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:I don't think I've ever heard of a team rotating keepers and it's probably a good indication as to how detrimental it would be.

You could be right.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:I don't think I've ever heard of a team rotating keepers and it's probably a good indication as to how detrimental it would be.

Didn't do the 91/92 Div 4 winning team any harm