Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

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jdrobbo
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Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by jdrobbo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:41 pm

Whilst in the car today, I heard a feature about the release of Kieron Dyer's memoir, 'Old too Soon, Smart too late: My Story', written with Oliver Holt. There are many themes in the book, one being of the sexual abuse he suffered from a member of his family in his teenage years and another, the amount of gambling witnessed throughout his playing career.

We know about gambling problems that have been endured by former Burnley players. I think it is common knowledge that one of our former strikers had a very big gambling addiction, usually fed by other professionals on the way to games on the team coach. His debt became so bad that he ended up working for some of his teammates for 'free' following the end of their playing days, just to pay back some of what he owed.

Last year we had the news of Joey Barton. Whether he would self-diagnose himself as having had a gambling addiction, his gambling certainly created massive problems for Joey and the players and fans of his club.

I was shocked to hear that Kieron Dyer regularly witnessed thousands of pounds being lost between players in a single evening, during England's 2004 World Cup Campaign. These were professional athletes, competing in the greatest footballing show on Earth, yet one player bet upwards of £100,000 between game-days in the competition, thus creating great animosity between certain players and in some cases, creating a divide.

John Hartson had a huge self-proclaimed problem during his playing days and post-playing. These days, he has just past six years clean (since having his last bet). He and a caller to the show, made the point that when you're a gambling addict, not only do you get a compulsive addiction to gambling, but possibly even more worryingly, you become a compulsive liar.

I won't deny that I very often used to bet on sports fixtures - I always felt as though I bet within my means and generally, I always felt as though I gambled sensibly. I did however, notice that £10 trebles, quite easily could turn into £12 or £15 trebles and I could have a couple of those over a weekend. I also looked at other sports that I had an interest in, mainly cricket and darts. Fortunately, I've ended up a couple of hundred in profit over the years (yes, I know, hardly worth it really is it?), but even I could see where it could potentially have started to go - I haven't even put a £1 bet down now since last April.

So going back to the sporting elite, just how rife do people think gambling is in professional football these days? Wages are bigger and I've no doubt, that stakes are higher, particularly where card games on football buses and in away day hotels are concerned.

Is enough being done at the very top to help players with problems? John Hartson certainly doesn't think so, admitting that five top flight managers from England and Scotland have contacted him within the last few weeks alone, to seek advice about certain individuals, or small sections of their playing squads, who they believe have a compulsive gambling addiction, which is having a detrimental effect on their playing career, home-life and on the club.

It's certainly food for thought.

Anyway, it's something to discuss and hopefully, people will turn it into a good discussion.

J
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:54 pm

I don't think enough is done to stop people in general from blowing fortunes on gambling. The gambling machines are the worst IMO, fixed roulette on a machine should be banned.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Stalbansclaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Damn...I had bet £20 that KRBFC would never put up a post I agreed with :|

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by tim_noone » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:I don't think enough is done to stop people in general from blowing fortunes on gambling. The gambling machines are the worst IMO, fixed roulette on a machine should be banned.
Spot on ...fortunately I don't gamble on machines on the basis I can't have a machine ??? Take money off me! I enjoy the dogs and do ok.the horses are my downfall ...crap at it.though if you believe what you see on here everyone's a winner backing horses.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by jdrobbo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:02 pm

I used to have a mate who was heavily involved in the app design for William Hill's online casino games. He admitted that the odds are so heavily stacked against the punter, it's ridiculous. It's very much fixed in the bookie's favour. If you really must play roulette, then at least go and watch someone actually spin the wheel physically.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by tim_noone » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:04 pm

Stalbansclaret wrote:Damn...I had bet £20 that KRBFC would never put up a post I agreed with :|
You should have an open mind to any topic discussed by any poster. Don't be blinkered by the sway of others. :roll:

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Don't mind betting for fun. But its far too easy to bet. Feel sorry for people who have a genuine addictive personality as well and get into gambling because there is no avoiding it.

Its on every set of adverts between matches, which have both teams sponsored by gambling firms in one way or other, adverts all round the grounds, stands named after bookies, players 'advocates' of bookmakers firms.

Gambling, especially accumulators is as much a part of the Saturday afternoon as the pie and pint!

In moderation its not a big issue. But its time to limit the advertising to cigarette like levels and time to make it more difficult to bet. Its far too easy. I can get up at 3 in the morning and have a bet if I want. Its just wrong to have that ease of access.

There should be a regulatory system in place that only allows you to have an account with one bookmaker. Or ensure that odds are the same regardless of bookmaker to mean that you wont 'need' multiple accounts.

I have an account with every single online booky. Thankfully I bet little and rarely and only opened them all for the so called free bets. But if I did have an addiction it would be a huge problem.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:22 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I used to have a mate who was heavily involved in the app design for William Hill's online casino games. He admitted that the odds are so heavily stacked against the punter, it's ridiculous. It's very much fixed in the bookie's favour. If you really must play roulette, then at least go and watch someone actually spin the wheel physically.
Agreed, it's an absolute disgrace really.... a fixed machine rinsing punters of their wages on a weekly basis while nothing is done about it, I have no idea why nothing is done, do the government make a fortune along with the bookies? if so, it would explain an awful lot. The bandits are a similar thing but they're small scale in comparison.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:23 pm

I don't bet on sports.
I've done it 3 times, that's it.

The only 'gambling' I do is the euro million or national lottery but it's always lucky dips and I have a fixed amount I spend each month.
Lucky dips - isn't an issue then if I don't play because I don't have fixed numbers.

My kids step dad bets all the time on sport but like all sports betters he never talks about his losses with the kids, just what he wins.
He will admit when asked that he does lose more than he wins but he won't mention numbers because he doesn't want his missus nagging him :lol:

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:24 pm

I cant understand why people go on the things in the first place. Even if I was a gambler I would sooner lump on a dog race or something random but real.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:25 pm

KRBFC wrote:Agreed, it's an absolute disgrace really.... a fixed machine rinsing punters of their wages on a weekly basis while nothing is done about it, I have no idea why nothing is done, do the government make a fortune along with the bookies? if so, it would explain an awful lot. The bandits are a similar thing but they're small scale in comparison.
There was some good stuff out recently about where gambling shops are generally located and naturally it's in the poorer areas, along with cheap booze shops etc.
There have been efforts by various people to try and regulate it all, but it's being resisted so far.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:28 pm

You can't go anywhere without someone having a bet on a football match.
There's more interest in the betting side of results than the game itself.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Sidney1st wrote:There was some good stuff out recently about where gambling shops are generally located and naturally it's in the poorer areas, along with cheap booze shops etc.
There have been efforts by various people to try and regulate it all, but it's being resisted so far.
There have been regulations put in place already to limit the amount of social media driven adverts, all posts must contain certain phrases like ''18+ and t&c's apply'' it's killed off the affiliate business and many bookmakers have actually closed affiliate accounts because of it. So the advertising has toned down but what does that matter really? people don't forget gambling exists because they haven't seen an advert.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:You can't go anywhere without someone having a bet on a football match.
There's more interest in the betting side of results than the game itself.
I bet often, I used to do large stake singles to make long term profit but i've toned it down to £10-20 trebles, the reason I bet now is purely out of boredom. If I flick to a sports channel, I will stick all the live games on in an accumulator with a £10-20 stake and watch them all in a row.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:32 pm

KRBFC wrote:There have been regulations put in place already to limit the amount of social media driven adverts, all posts must contain certain phrases like ''18+ and t&c's apply'' it's killed off the affiliate business and many bookmakers have actually closed affiliate accounts because of it. So the advertising has toned down but what does that matter really? people don't forget gambling exists because they haven't seen an advert.
Correct.
There are too many bookies who have multiple branches in small towns and specifically targeting poorer areas.

It's worth having a look for the information.
My ex used to work in a bookies and she told me a few times it's all a con and the amount of money people pour into the machines is scary to see.

You get family members going into bookies, in tears, asking staff to ban their spouses/kids but the staff can't always do anything plus an addict will find another place of way to do it.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:38 pm

Just checked my bet365 account. Havent bet online since start of december.

In the six months from June to November I was actually up by 25%. However that was almost all from one very lucky bet. Thankfully I know that I am not very good at betting, nor do i stake much know that I will always win less than I lose and I dont have an addictive personality. Hence not betting online for over two months.

It is alarming though that even someone who bets like I do could have been down a reasonable amount had I not got lucky on that one bet. (Chris Wood to score next in play away at Spurs in August)

I had placed exactly 20 bets, lost 18 and 'won' twice. One of the wins was actually a significant loss too. But it returned part of my stake so the bookies classed it as a win :lol: .

I dont mind going to the races - I consider any losses part of the day out. But again I only gamble what I can afford to lose (financially and psychologically).

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Damo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:39 pm

I too cannot believe the fixed odd machines in the bookies are legal.
I have never played on one. Mostly because I have seen how badly they ruin people's lives.
Horrible things

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:There have been regulations put in place already to limit the amount of social media driven adverts, all posts must contain certain phrases like ''18+ and t&c's apply'' it's killed off the affiliate business and many bookmakers have actually closed affiliate accounts because of it. So the advertising has toned down but what does that matter really? people don't forget gambling exists because they haven't seen an advert.
They dont forget. But the advertising definitely works or they wouldn't do it. The reason that companies spend so much on advertising, especially strategic marketing like sports ads during football is that because it works.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by TractorFace » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:45 pm

There really needs to be a watershed regarding TV betting ads. We now have young kids growing up in a society where football betting is normalised and this is going cause problems in the future. Betting is for adults - so show the commercials after 9.00pm or whatever. It won't happen, though. Too much money at stake, if you pardon the pun.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:47 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Just checked my bet365 account. Havent bet online since start of december.

In the six months from June to November I was actually up by 25%. However that was almost all from one very lucky bet. Thankfully I know that I am not very good at betting, nor do i stake much know that I will always win less than I lose and I dont have an addictive personality. Hence not betting online for over two months.

It is alarming though that even someone who bets like I do could have been down a reasonable amount had I not got lucky on that one bet. (Chris Wood to score next in play away at Spurs in August)

I had placed exactly 20 bets, lost 18 and 'won' twice. One of the wins was actually a significant loss too. But it returned part of my stake so the bookies classed it as a win :lol: .

I dont mind going to the races - I consider any losses part of the day out. But again I only gamble what I can afford to lose (financially and psychologically).
I just checked mine from end of Dec to end of Jan, -£297 :lol: I didn't realise it was that bad from interest bets.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by RMutt » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 pm

I've never been into betting and so I don't know a great deal about it, but I was surprised to find out from a woman who worked in a bookies that they ban the successful gamblers. I suppose in this world I shouldn't be surprised but it does seem a bit unfair and one sided.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:53 pm

RMutt wrote:I've never been into betting and so I don't know a great deal about it, but I was surprised to find out from a woman who worked in a bookies that they ban the successful gamblers. I suppose in this world I shouldn't be surprised but it does seem a bit unfair and one sided.
If you are successful online with Bet365 they limit your account so you can't continue to place big stakes.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by tim_noone » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:00 pm

RMutt wrote:I've never been into betting and so I don't know a great deal about it, but I was surprised to find out from a woman who worked in a bookies that they ban the successful gamblers. I suppose in this world I shouldn't be surprised but it does seem a bit unfair and one sided.
That's why the bookies are full....they don't want the winners in there. And they do the dearest coffee compared to all the big coffee shops.£100 isn't unheard of. :?
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by JimmyMac'sMate » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:01 pm

That is a great read and fantastic advice from cricket field clarets utc

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:06 pm

I used to work with a woman who was manager of a bookies in Malton, a small town with a big interest in horse racing.

In the days of 'pay packets' she told me that all her friend's husbands would come in on a Friday and blow their wages and then she'd have to listen to the wives complaining about how skint they were.

A dangerous, dangerous addiction yet gambling seems to have become glamourised, bookies seem to be open all hours and adverts are all over tv. I presume the gambling companies are generating a lot of money into the treasury which is why the government doesn't seem that concerned about it.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by starting_11 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:06 pm

A completely unregulated industry in the UK now, seemingly free to do as they like with successive governments blessing - ironic really, given they're all based in Gibraltar and Guernsey so don't pay much tax.

It's funny how you in advertising you can't glorify big macs, ciggys or booze but you can show how much you and your mate enjoy ******* away your weekly giro on the football scores.

Gambling addiction can do a lot more damage in a HELL of a lot shorter time than drugs, cigs, fats or booze. It's time they started to regulate the advertising of it at the very least.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KeighleyClaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:10 pm

It would be a start if clubs were not allowed to be sponsored by betting companies, and if the Broadcasters didn't allow them to sponsor Football matches on TV. Also if Sky didn't have their own Betting company.

It wouldn't stop people betting but might make it less of a mainstream activity.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by ClaretAndJew » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:18 pm

Once saw Brian Easton, Alex MacDonald and another ex BFC pro in the Ladbrokes (i think) in Rawtenstall just shoveling notes into the machines. I was at the bus stop outside before anyone asks why I was in there ;).

This was maybe 8-9 years ago. Full training gear too, not that I'm complaining.

Money to burn.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by CombatClaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:32 pm

Not only are football loving Children exposed to betting adverts many will have gambled themselves whilst playing Fifa on Xbox/PS4/PC.

Children are being exposed to gambling through paid 'loot crate' type systems in video games whereby you pay a small amount of real money and randomly receive an item/weapon/football player etc. What's more these can through 3rd parties be exchanged back to real money.
Like gambling the odds of receiving the best items (eg: Segio Aguero) are very small.
A radio show a while back had a mum who's son spends all his allowance and wanted nothing but 'Xbox points' (money) for Christmas to buy Fifa Ultimate Team cards.

There has been a small grassroots backlash, though not at the ethic but by the idea that video game developers are withholding pieces of a game ransom to further line their pockets despite players paying £60+ for a title.

I'm a huge video game fan and will defend vehemently their legitimacy as an entertainment and art form but the practices being encouraged by some studios is unethical and will leave a considerable number of children with problems.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:40 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Not only are football loving Children exposed to betting adverts many will have gambled themselves whilst playing Fifa on Xbox/PS4/PC.

Children are being exposed to gambling through paid 'loot crate' type systems in video games whereby you pay a small amount of real money and randomly receive an item/weapon/football player etc. What's more these can through 3rd parties be exchanged back to real money.
Like gambling the odds of receiving the best items (eg: Segio Aguero) are very small.
A radio show a while back had a mum who's son wanted spends all his allowance and wanted nothing but 'Xbox points' (money) for Christmas to buy Fifa Ultimate Team cards.

There has been a small grassroots backlash, though not at the ethic but by the idea that video game developers are withholding pieces of a game ransom to further line their pockets despite players paying £60+ for a title.

I'm a huge video game fan and will defend vehemently their legitimacy as an entertainment and art form but the practices being encouraged by some studios is unethical and will leave a considerable number of children with problems.
A very good point and there is no regulation for odds to be made public for the ''loot crates''

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:41 pm

KRBFC wrote:I just checked mine from end of Dec to end of Jan, -£297 :lol: I didn't realise it was that bad from interest bets.
I would have been down £210 if the wood bet didnt come in. Not a huge amount but enough to do something more interesting than placing (a most likely losing) bet!

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:43 pm

RMutt wrote:I've never been into betting and so I don't know a great deal about it, but I was surprised to find out from a woman who worked in a bookies that they ban the successful gamblers. I suppose in this world I shouldn't be surprised but it does seem a bit unfair and one sided.
They can and do ban the others too. But they have to request it. Mrs said that she was putting the irish lotto on the other week and someone came in with such a ban. He actually said thanks for remembering when they wouldnt let him bet.

:|

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:52 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I would have been down £210 if the wood bet didnt come in. Not a huge amount but enough to do something more interesting than placing (a most likely losing) bet!
I only bet so I watch a match as a fan not a neutral :lol: I end up being a 90 minute fan of Universidad De Chile, Atletico Nacional and all sorts of random teams hahaha It's quite enjoyable tbh

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:53 pm

KRBFC wrote:I only bet so I watch a match as a fan not a neutral :lol: I end up being a 90 minute fan of Universidad De Chile, Atletico Nacional and all sorts of random teams hahaha It's quite enjoyable tbh
Its when its The Dutch womens hockey team it becomes a problem. Actually, on second thoughts...

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:55 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Its when its The Dutch womens hockey team it becomes a problem. Actually, on second thoughts...
I did once bet on a Chinese Badminton player :lol:

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by jdrobbo » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:16 pm

Thoughts on players from the same team betting £100k in just a day or so between games?

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Relevant, and interesting article in The Times today:

Matthew Syed

Joey Barton and Kieron Dyer are using traumas of their childhoods to give courage to others

Football has a duty to build on power of humanity that Sporting Chance chief left as his legacy

Joey Barton was still a child when his father pushed him into the front garden to fight with other kids from the neighbourhood while their dads crowded around placing bets. He was still a child when he was mauled by a dog and watched his father respond by knocking the owner unconscious before running the dog over in his car. He watched the bloodied corpse in the rear-view mirror as the car made its way up the street.

When he came home after getting hit by a local kid, his father gave him a baseball bat and told him to “go and hit him. If you don’t, I will give you a good hiding”. Relatives and friends were in and out of prison for violence-related crimes, including murder. When he was sent to prison himself, it felt like a reunion. Inside, he was assaulted by feelings of rage, confusion, insecurity and fear. On the outside, however, he tried to look invulnerable. Isn’t that how real men are supposed to look?

Yesterday, in a courageous interview in The Mail on Sunday, Kieron Dyer, another of football’s so-called bad boys, opened up about the incident that shaped his young life. Kenny, a great-uncle, had sexually assaulted him as he lay asleep on his lap. Dyer had frozen, unable to speak. It was like a nightmare. His great uncle told him that this was their little secret, and warned him never to tell anybody. Dyer was 11 or 12 years old at the time of the abuse.

Initially, he tried to bottle up the feelings of guilt and shame, but his behaviour started to change. An open, trusting kid, he started to close down. He got into fights, struggled with his emotions, found it difficult to build meaningful relationships. As Dyer put it to The Mail on Sunday: “I find it hard to have eye contact with people. I feel embarrassed. There is a trust issue. I don’t want people to see my eyes. I don’t want them to see my vulnerability.”

Barton and Dyer’s stories converged in 2011 when they played together at QPR. It was in the dressing room that Barton informed his team-mates that Peter Kay, a trained counsellor who co-founded the Sporting Chance clinic, which helps sportspeople with addiction and mental health problems, was coming to the club after training. Would anyone like to see him, Barton wondered. Dyer seized the opportunity. It was, he said, the moment that changed his life.

“If I hadn’t opened up to Peter Kay I would have been alone later in my life,” Dyer said. “I would have pushed everyone away. All my loved ones would have been out of my life. I didn’t want to show any vulnerability, so I pushed people away. I probably would have lost my children. I would have been on my own living out the years as a sad old man . . . I owe a great deal to Joey Barton and Peter Kay.”
This testimony is, I think, significant and revelatory. Barton’s own relationship with Kay had started a few years earlier, when Manchester City had asked him to go to Sporting Chance. Initially, he was sullen. He sat for hours in silence, trying to stare out Kay. Eventually, he started talking and, as the floodgates opened, began the long process of healing. As Kay told me: “Joseph was a classic case of someone who had bottled things up. When he let go, it was a revelation.”

Barton — who, along with Kay, became a good friend after we met in 2011 — didn’t become an angel overnight. He continued to make mistakes, to struggle with his feelings, to get into scrapes, but he also became an evangelist among his fellow players. He knew that neither money nor fame could inoculate players from emotional trauma, and he knew, too, that the concept of mental toughness often made it treacherously difficult for footballers to admit to weakness.

And so he invited Kay to meet his team-mates, not just at QPR but at other clubs, too. He brought his own insecurities and frailties into conversation. He talked about how suffering in silence can compound the very problems one hopes might vanish. “I grew up being told that it was weak to admit you need help,” he told me once. “Peter taught me that asking for help is strong. It helps you to find a new way forward.”
Kay was himself groomed and raped by an older man when he was eight. So significantly did his behaviour change in the aftermath, so closed and withdrawn did he become, that he was shaken by a school teacher. “What on earth has happened to you, child?” the teacher beseeched. Kay didn’t speak out, turning to alcohol in his teens, losing two-thirds of his pancreas, and spending 23 days in a coma. It was only later that he sought help, trained as a counsellor and used his experiences to help others, particularly in sport.

When one considers abuse, one often notices a disturbing pattern. In the most recent trial of Barry Bennell, the former coach and convicted paedophile, for example, the court heard that four of the players he had coached had committed suicide, including Gary Speed, leaving families and friends grief-stricken. Although the jury was told that there was no evidence to link the suicides to Bennell, broader study demonstrates that abuse creates multiple victims, for the consequences reverberate, bringing families, children, parents and friends into the web of anguish.
But in the case of Barton, Kay and Dyer we can glimpse a different pattern; a beautiful and uplifting one. We see Kay using the trauma of his childhood as a means of assisting and counselling others.

We see Barton, one of the most high-profile beneficiaries of Kay’s compassion, seeking to pass that onto others. We see Dyer, whose chance interaction with Barton led to his own form of redemption, opening up in a powerful interview that will give succour and courage to all who read it.
This is a web not of anguish but of hope. Victims of abuse, of whatever kind, being treated not with distaste, but empathy. People who have suffered in the past acting as beacons to those who, today, might be suffering in silence. A new accord where victims are given an opportunity to reclaim their lives, and where their heroic candour offers not just hope but the possibility of justice. Bennell’s latest trial was triggered by Andy Woodward, another of his victims, who spoke out about what he had endured in his youth.

Kay died, aged 52, in 2013, having returned to alcohol, perhaps the legacy of that rape, which he once described to me in such terrible detail that I, like him, dissolved into tears. I hope his family will take comfort from knowing what he achieved, the lives that he changed. Through him, through Barton and Dyer, and through many others he inspired, we are witnessing the power of humanity. It is a legacy that football, and society, has a duty to build upon.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Thoughts on players from the same team betting £100k in just a day or so between games?
Not good. Apart from the fact that it could cause friction in the camp its not exactly ideal focus either.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by dandeclaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:19 pm

jdrobbo wrote:I used to have a mate who was heavily involved in the app design for William Hill's online casino games. He admitted that the odds are so heavily stacked against the punter, it's ridiculous. It's very much fixed in the bookie's favour. If you really must play roulette, then at least go and watch someone actually spin the wheel physically.
Is the machine in question electronic, or an actual roulette wheel? Whichever it is, it's the same principle. Machines are set at between 8 and 12% a roulette wheel is set at around 8% too (Pays 35/1 usually 38 numbers)

As for the amounts multi millionaires are betting, it's not comparable is it? I suspect there's not much of a buzz of £2 big blinds.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by dandeclaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:22 pm

starting_11 wrote:A completely unregulated industry in the UK now, seemingly free to do as they like with successive governments blessing - ironic really, given they're all based in Gibraltar and Guernsey so don't pay much tax.
Apart from the UK Gambling Commission who regulate the sport, and recently fined 888 (I think) £7.8m for breaches of licensing and whom also introduced a "Point Of Consumption Tax of 15% on profits which meant that tax was paid on all betting within the UK no matter where online bookies were paid, along with corporation tax of course.......

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by bfccrazy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:25 pm

Had a friend of an old friend play for a prem club who was letting one of our ex players stay with him for free after a move there - the ex claret had no money and his wages went to paying off gambling debts (he was earning quite a wedge too) - crazy how bad it can actually get.

I had a bit of a relapse waiting for a train on Saturday and stuck £30 in one of the FOBT machines in Manchester - luckily I could "afford to lose it" and thought "what a di*k you are" and walked away when a few years back I'd of pumped in another £200 out of boredom and chasing the loss.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by dandeclaret » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:27 pm

KeighleyClaret wrote: Also if Sky didn't have their own Betting company.
CVC partners bought the majority of Skybet, as part of the deal, they were allowed to utilise the name for a fixed period (Think it's 20 years).

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by MiltonKeynesClaret93 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:56 am

9 out of the 20 Premier League clubs have betting companies as their shirt sponsor.
At least 2 clubs also have sleeve sponsors.
Bet365 own the naming rights to Stoke's stadium.
Ladbrokes branding all over the Cricketfield Stand.
Bet365, BetFair, Betway, Ladbrokes, SkyBet and probably more have adverts rolling throughout match coverage.

That's just off the top of my head. Sure there's a lot more I've not mentioned.
''When the fun stops, stop.'' Seems a little redundant.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 am

I have always hated gambling but many years ago it was at least partially hidden in betting shops, casinos and slot machines. Now it’s a complete free for all and completely dominates football. I have often wondered wether this is the mainstay that supports tv companies to give the huge finances to football clubs.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by edlass » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:34 am

jdrobbo wrote: Fortunately, I've ended up a couple of hundred in profit over the years (yes, I know, hardly worth it really is it?), but even I could see where it could potentially have started to go - I haven't even put a £1 bet down now since last April.
I made a thread a few weeks ago about making small bets and tiny profit and it affecting my enjoyment of raw football. I stopped caring once my bet lost. Even that thread became about how people were winning bets and less about if anyone else felt the same. Since then I stopped completely but I now have less interest than ever. Short of checking the score in the evening I have lost all enjoyment.

How have you felt since you stopped? Did you have any reset period? I am hoping I'll wake up one day and be as excited as I used to be. Just for football.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by MACCA » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:15 am

My friend worked in a betting shops for a number of years, after he had started ge mentioned to us, that in x amount of months he had only ever recorded 1 loss on 1 machine at the end of a shift. There were 4 machines in his shop, he was full time and had been there at least 2 or 3 months.
If that doesn't ring alarm bells nothing will.
You are betting against a FIXEDodds computer.

Sadly the "totally random number as soon as you press spin" is just the party line.

All our group would easily stick between £10-£100 in every bookies visit whilst putting our coupons on.

Safe to say in the last 3 years I can honestly say I've probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've had a spin.
Even then it would be my change from my coupon £2-5 quid and was always 1 spin, if i won i collected, a loss and i walked.
These things grip you if you spend any decent amounts of time or cash on them.

They are the heroin equivalent the gambling world!

He now is an odds compiler for live in play betting for the same company, and if people are winning or are successful gamblers, they have their account limited, froze or even closed fully.

The other week whilst on nights, he said he had 37 local people active at 3 in the morning midweek, betting on beach volley ball abroad...

These days I avoid gambling at all. Possibly bet half a dozen times a year at most.
Grand national and a few coupons if Burnley don't play on Saturday and I'm sat in with a full fixture list.

I see half my mates checking their phones all game on match days for their coupons or fantasy football, that's not betting for fun or a pastime in my opinion.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:38 am

MACCA wrote:My friend worked in a betting shops for a number of years, after he had started ge mentioned to us, that in x amount of months he had only ever recorded 1 loss on 1 machine at the end of a shift. There were 4 machines in his shop, he was full time and had been there at least 2 or 3 months.
You could probably say the same for any roulette wheel in a casino, they're just as "fixed" because they pay out at less than the true odds of your bet.

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by MACCA » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:46 am

Tall Paul wrote:You could probably say the same for any roulette wheel in a casino, they're just as "fixed" because they pay out at less than the true odds of your bet.
In what way?
I've only been to a few casinos mainly at the end of a lads night out, so im no experst, but i the odds are clearly displayed and £1 pays £36 on a single number, and the time I won my stake, stayed on the table for the next spin, although I could change the number(s) I had it on.

It's random isn't it, you've got the same chance as every one else at the table as winning or losing.
Where as a machine in a shop will tell the cashier win or lose, via a computer behind the desk as soon as you press spin. It's pre determined and all you see is a video of it landing on a number you havent covered. There's no random selection to it

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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:55 am

MACCA wrote:In what way?
I've only been to a few casinos mainly at the end of a lads night out, so im no experst, but i the odds are clearly displayed and £1 pays £36 on a single number, and the time I won my stake, stayed on the table for the next spin, although I could change the number(s) I had it on.

It's random isn't it, you've got the same chance as every one else at the table as winning or losing.
Where as a machine in a shop will tell the cashier win or lose, via a computer behind the desk as soon as you press spin. It's pre determined and all you see is a video of it landing on a number you havent covered. There's no random selection to it
A roulette wheel has 37 or 38 numbers on it (depending on whether it has one or two zeroes), it pays out at 35/1 when the true odds of hitting your number are 36 or 37/1. That's how the casino makes its money and by the end of a day's worth of spins, the chances of the wheel losing money for the casino are close to zero.

I don't play on the machines, but I expect they run at the same odds and I'm pretty sure they have to state the percentage return on them somewhere. The random number generator will be audited by the Gambling Commission and the bookies would risk losing their licences (to print money) if they were rigging them.
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Re: Compulsive gambling in football - a lot to answer for?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:00 pm

edlass wrote:I made a thread a few weeks ago about making small bets and tiny profit and it affecting my enjoyment of raw football. I stopped caring once my bet lost. Even that thread became about how people were winning bets and less about if anyone else felt the same. Since then I stopped completely but I now have less interest than ever. Short of checking the score in the evening I have lost all enjoyment.

How have you felt since you stopped? Did you have any reset period? I am hoping I'll wake up one day and be as excited as I used to be. Just for football.
This is it. Watching the game. Bets down. No interest.

Its all to do with endorphins / dopamine too. Gambling affects them in the same way as drink, drugs, smoking, porn... it numbs them but you still need it even though it doesnt give you the same 'reward'

You can 'reset' but you need to go completely cold turkey....
Last edited by cricketfieldclarets on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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