Progression or Regression?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Everybody is saying "oh, it's amazing how far we have come this season and we are progressing"

This time last year we were 10 points ahead of 18th - this time this year we are 10 points ahead of 18th.

That seems the same to me.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:03 pm

because it is amazing, its another season under our belts, more experience gained by management and players, training facilities sorted.
More cash due soon, and we are in 7th place, I would say that epitomises Progression.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:05 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Everybody is saying "oh, it's amazing how far we have come this season and we are progressing"

This time last year we were 10 points ahead of 18th - this time this year we are 10 points ahead of 18th.

That seems the same to me.

We were in 12th last season at the same point, or around that area. So a few places higher is certainly progression.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:because it is amazing, its another season under our belts, more experience gained by management and players, training facilities sorted.
More cash due soon, and we are in 7th place, I would say that epitomises Progression.

But is our 7th spot us playing well or others naff, if it is the latter then it is worrying for next season with the "we finished 7/8th which is brilliant" mentality.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:07 pm

What experience?
SD hasn't learned anything new in years and keeps on making the same basic mistakes all season

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:07 pm

Higher league position
More points
Better Goal difference
Fewer losses.
2% chance of going down.
Better players (though some injured)
Better finances

= Progression.

Lovely Cherry picked stat though.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:10 pm

We ended last season with 40 points - we will pass that so, yes, there's your progression. By how much we've progressed, we'll have to wait and see.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:11 pm

I think that you will find that we were in 12th position with 31 points after 28 matches and this was 7 points above 18th position who were Hull with 24 points. The bottom three at this time were Hull, Middlesbrough and Sunderland.
We have made progress, in spite of having a lot of injuries and are, as you say, 10 points above 18th and 5 league positions higher than we were at this stage.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:12 pm

It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:14 pm

It'll sort itself out.

Teams like Everton, watford, West ham, Newcastle will be back to midlife table.

Well be back in 15th.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:14 pm

bfccrazy wrote:But is our 7th spot us playing well or others naff

City fans could ask this question, you can only play the teams put in front of you. This is a rhetorical question with no meaningful answer in a self contained season of football.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:14 pm

KRBFC wrote:It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

What a load of sh1t.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:15 pm

At this stage last season every club under 7th position had a negative goal difference --not much changed then

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:17 pm

Progressed nicely until injuries halted it. Still progressed though.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:17 pm

claretnproud wrote:Do you ever say anything positive you sad sorry fool.

How about you tell me the positives to watching us play.....

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:How about you tell me the positives to watching us play.....

We're fans

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:How about you tell me the positives to watching us play.....

90 minutes we won't see one of your posts?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:21 pm

CombatClaret wrote:90 minutes we won't see one of your posts?

That's a good one, i'll give you that

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:27 pm

KRBFC wrote:How about you tell me the positives to watching us play.....

we are 7th in the prem with a patched up team made up largely of championship players who have been improved by our fantastic manager. we have millions in the bank and our future is assured you blithering idiot. go and try pouring your heart out on the west brom board. good god.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:33 pm

claretnproud wrote:we are 7th in the prem with a patched up team made up largely of championship players who have been improved by our fantastic manager. we have millions in the bank and our future is assured you blithering idiot. go and try pouring your heart out on the west brom board. good god.

So now you're calling our players, ''Championship players''..... how positive of you........

Btw, I asked for the positives to watching us play, not a f88k ton of excuses as to why we can't string a pass together.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm

We get to see a well organised defence at the top of their game.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:38 pm

KRBFC wrote:So now you're calling our players, ''Championship players''..... how positive of you........

Btw, I asked for the positives to watching us play, not a f88k ton of excuses as to why we can't string a pass together.

yes, most of our squad has originated from the championship. my god you are thick.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:40 pm

claretnproud wrote:yes, most of our squad has originated from the championship. my god you are thick.

So Andre Gray and Charlie Austin are non league players, understood.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:42 pm

KRBFC wrote:So Andre Gray and Charlie Austin are non league players, understood.

what is it you are struggling with kfc. its very simple really. just look where the majority of our squad have come from. this is not very difficult so why are you struggling with it?

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:44 pm

KRBFC wrote:So Andre Gray and Charlie Austin are non league players, understood.

All our players are u18s ...... that's where they were.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:44 pm

claretnproud wrote:what is it you are struggling with kfc. its very simple really. just look where the majority of our squad have come from. this is not very difficult so why are you struggling with it?

I'm not struggling with it, Austin came from non league football, does that make him a non league player today?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:48 pm

Progression.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm not struggling with it, Austin came from non league football, does that make him a non league player today?

we bought potential and turned him into a multi million pound premier player. thats what we do. much tougher route than getting cheque book out so I am still struggling to understand your negative ramblings. not just on this thread but every single one you go on. smile ffs.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:49 pm

bfccrazy wrote:This time last year we were 10 points ahead of 18th - this time this year we are 10 points ahead of 18th.

That seems the same to me.

This time less year we had less points and we were lower down the table. Seems anything but the same to me.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:52 pm

we've made massive strides this season, the improvement in Defour has been immense. We would have way more points this season had we not suffered all the injuries - especially Brady.

Summer will be big for us again as we MUST get a far far better number 10.

But we've made huge strides this season imho

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote:This time less year we had less points and we were lower down the table. Seems anything but the same to me.

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:11 pm

KRBFC wrote:It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

You are a card.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:16 pm

Indecisive wrote:You are a card.

It sounds like card.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:24 pm

Funny season:
Progress off the pitch beyond what many of us could have expected.
On the pitch we've had plenty of luck results- wise, rotten luck with injuries.
there's got to be room for improvement, but things are going in the right direction in general (I think).

Cornwallclaret · Post by **Cornwallclaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:34 pm

KRBFC wrote:How about you tell me the positives to watching us play.....

My town my turf..... Division 4 or premier league...it's really that simple...sure we can all moan about last Saturday but hey up..there's always next Saturday
If it's not in your dna like that what is the feckin point you being. Claret

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:35 pm

I don't progress but I.... regress

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

Sunderland last season.

Derby the season they got 12 points.

Or are you restricting it to Burnley teams?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

If we are rubbish then surely every team below us is even worse. Look at Leicester for example, drawing with the mighty Stoke.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:52 pm

KRBFC wrote:It says an awful lot about the league when we're 7th with a minus goal difference, 2nd lowest scorers in the league and haven't won in 11 games. Lets face it, we're absolutely crap. I've never seen a football team so scared to pass a football forwards, a complete lack of self belief, we need someone to come in and motivate the players, hands on coaching of the basic pass and move, give them a cuddle.... even if it's a part time attacking coach alongside Dyche.

Obviously you had perfectly good reasons for never watching Burnley in the fourth division, or in the Championship under Cotterill, or in the Premier League under Laws. I'm not criticising you for that. But to come on here whingeing about how bad this team is, when you know perfectly well (even though you weren't there) that there have been far worse Burnley teams in the recent past - that's just a pointless waste of typing.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:55 pm

The club has progressed quite considerably, it's just a pity some of the fans haven't.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:55 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Everybody is saying "oh, it's amazing how far we have come this season and we are progressing"

This time last year we were 10 points ahead of 18th - this time this year we are 10 points ahead of 18th.

That seems the same to me.

Illogical and wrong.

1. If you'd got your facts right, so last year Hull had 21 points and this year Southampton have 27, then that would mean we were no better than last year.

2. As actually happened, Hull had 24 and Southampton 27, so that means we have improved over last season.

That's just nonsense. The relative positions of Hull and southampton don't affect how good a side we are - it's such a nonsensical position that I wonder if you're just another troll. But I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so let's just say that you aren't all that good at logic.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:The club has progressed quite considerably, it's just a pity some of the fans haven't.

Throbbers.

Seventh in the PL going into March and some say that's not progression.
JFW.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:02 pm

dsr wrote:Obviously you had perfectly good reasons for never watching Burnley in the fourth division, or in the Championship under Cotterill, or in the Premier League under Laws. I'm not criticising you for that. But to come on here whingeing about how bad this team is, when you know perfectly well (even though you weren't there) that there have been far worse Burnley teams in the recent past - that's just a pointless waste of typing.

I didn't see us in the fourth division, I was absolutely there during the Cotterill run though...

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:I didn't see us in the fourth division, I was absolutely there during the Cotterill run though...

And you honestly believe that Cotterill's team had more self-belief than this one?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:06 pm

dsr wrote:And you honestly believe that Cotterill's team had more self-belief than this one?

This team is obviously better at picking up results but that wasn't ever my criticism of this team. In terms of self belief on the ball, I'd say it's pretty close between this and the dreadful Cotterill team.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:12 pm

The club has clearly progressed if people are complaining about being 7th after a winless run.

Conclusion of discussion.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:17 pm

The less we say about it the better
Make it up as we go along
Feet on the ground, head in the sky
It's okay, I know nothing's wrong, nothing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HldHtBxNK6k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:00 pm

It's great that we're still 7th, if we can stay there, that would be a huge increase in income for such a high placing. Are we 7th because of how good we are or how poor the others are?
Let's be honest, were the likes of Everton, Leicester, Southampton, playing how many thought they would this season, then it's unlikely we would be 7th. We're not the only club in the league to be benefiting from the form of those clubs, it's unlikely that this season's Arsenal would be as high as 6th either.
While 7th is a mixture of a good start and the form of others, I thought that mid table would be achievable and considered good progress on last season. We have been unlucky with the injuries this time, but let's be fair, we've done pretty well up to now on the injury front since SD came in. If we are going to have a season of no luck with fitness, at least it's been balanced out with the luck that others are having a mare. We couldn't have chosen a better time to suffer the loss of our better players.
For me, progress is not solely about placing, it's also total points and winning more and losing less than the previous season.
So are we progressing?

16/17
Won 11 Draw 7 Lost 20
17/18
Won 9 Draw 10 Lost 9

With 10 games remaining, it is impossible to lose as many premier league games this season as we did last. Progress.
We have already drawn more premier league games this season than we did last. Progress, but only if we see progress on the number of games won?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:06 pm

No Ney Never wrote: Let's be honest, were the likes of Everton, Leicester, Southampton, playing how many thought they would this season, then it's unlikely we would be 7th. We're not the only club in the league to be benefiting from the form of those clubs, it's unlikely that this season's Arsenal would be as high as 6th either.

This time last season, 37 points would have been 9th; 10 behind Everton (7th), 3 behind WBA (8th), but 4 ahead of Southampton (10th). Arsenal would have been 7th, but 5 points ahead of the 8th club.

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:42 pm

I'm sick to death of this we are in 7th place comment, it has undoubtedly been a decent season up to press, but it means nothing. SD is now making fundamental mistakes, Saturday was unforgivable, watching him dithering on the sidelines was something I thought I'd never see with regards to the subs. But, he has enough in the bank for me...im not happy with his tactics at the moment but I trust him to turn it around.