The false narrative of unnecessary ground expansion at BFC

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:04 am

Right.

Thats not right, but at this moment in time he's bringing his granddaughter on.

But I do agree that if one person is perfectly happy to suggest that he'd do it to keep his seat, then others will more than likely be doing it

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:09 am

Exactly, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence from parents who sit in that stand on this thread that that is the case.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 am

Well, the only way would be to actually check whose S/T cards are actually being used.

If someone has a adult + child S/T in there, and the child one is never used, then they should be reminded of the rules of having a ticket in there. And given some sort of incentive to move to another part of the ground.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:41 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Well, the only way would be to actually check whose S/T cards are actually being used.

If someone has a adult + child S/T in there, and the child one is never used, then they should be reminded of the rules of having a ticket in there. And given some sort of incentive to move to another part of the ground.

I wouldn’t want to move to another part of the ground as I like it behind the goal HOWEVER I would be prepared to consider it if/when my granddaughter stops coming on IF I was offered decent seats with my mate who I travel with. Unfortunately that’s not looking likely as there are very few multiple seats together anywhere in the ground, never mind in decent positions.

It would be a hell of a risk for the club to take to turf the guaranteed £400 tickets out of there with the possibility of them not renewing elsewhere on the hope that an equal number of new people would buy one with a child. In fact, in the short to mid term the club would lose money because for every two adults you kicked out you would only get one paying adult in there, that ratio could go to one in three.

I agree that something needs to be done, I just don’t think that it’s as simple as some make out on here.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:47 am

Rules are rules, and the club has to abide by them.

There are thousands of seats available around the ground for those not meeting the requirements to buy season tickets in the Family stand.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:50 am

I have to admit to considering a move to the CF (both kids really want to come) but the reality of giving up my seat and not getting it back ever stops me doing it.

There is a life at BFC after kids!

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:50 am

Walton wrote:Rules are rules, and the club has to abide by them.

There are thousands of seats available around the ground for those not meeting the requirements to buy season tickets in the Family stand.

Then the JMU will be part empty as I pointed out before and not enough capacity in the rest of the ground when the big clubs arrive.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:58 am

No it won't be part empty, because for each adult buying a ticket, there'll be at least one child, with another child then being able to go for free.

So that's 3 seats filled for every one adult vacated.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:02 pm

Walton wrote:No it won't be part empty, because for each adult buying a ticket, there'll be at least one child, with another child then being able to go for free.

So that's 3 seats filled for every one adult vacated.

Only in your mind.Where are all these fictitious families waiting to fill the stand.They don't exist.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:03 pm

Walton wrote:No it won't be part empty, because for each adult buying a ticket, there'll be at least one child, with another child then being able to go for free.

So that's 3 seats filled for every one adult vacated.

With the club only receiving the income for one seat in three.

I’m also not convinced that there will be enough adult/child combos to fill it.

I’d be surprised it the club did it because it is a guaranteed way of losing money in the mid term.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 pm

WTF? Of course they do, but we're unable to sell tickets to them because of stubborn old sods taking up their seats

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:05 pm

Might aswell bang your head against a wall Walton.

Ages ago there was a season ticket thread and a suggestion that instead of having single seats spread around the JMU, other ST holders are shuffled along so singles can be made into pairs for an adult and child to sit together.
That was also dismissed on here, unsurprisingly.

Some people just want to leave things alone to suit themselves, they aren't interested in making things better for all.

People complaining about a family stand are a prime example.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:06 pm

Jimscho wrote:Only in your mind.Where are all these fictitious families waiting to fill the stand.They don't exist.

They can't get tickets.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:06 pm

Think someone is living on 'fantasy island'.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:07 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:With the club only receiving the income for one seat in three.

I’m also not convinced that there will be enough adult/child combos to fill it.

I’d be surprised it the club did it because it is a guaranteed way of losing money in the mid term.

But it's a FAMILY stand, it's so families have a designated area away from adults swearing and drinking etc. The PL rules require one to be available, exclusively to families, and that's the bottom line. The club have got an unbelievable deal on offer which currently no new families are able to take up, because of stubborn blokes who shouldn't be there taking up the seats.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:07 pm

Why?

What's wrong with making the family stand more accessible for families?

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:10 pm

Sidney1st wrote:They can't get tickets.

They are not there in the numbers it would require to replace all those kicked out.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:10 pm

Walton wrote:WTF? Of course they do, but we're unable to sell tickets to them because of stubborn old sods taking up their seats

We’ll have to agree to disagree then mate, if wanting to keep my seat that I’ve sat in for 20 years makes me a stubborn old sod then so be it.

Out of interest, if we gave the JMU solely to people with kids would you be prepared (presuming you have a season ticket) to remove everybody’s seats from them and start again with people committing to a season ticket then all the seats being drawn out at random? All you could specify is, for example, that you wanted 2, 3.....tickets. That way it would be fair for all, including the disposed JMU’ers?

Would you do that?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:12 pm

Jimscho wrote:They are not there in the numbers it would require to replace all those kicked out.

you must know a lot of families....

Its the Premier League, this is the time to get the kids through the gates and we have a stand for them to sit in away from the more excitable fans, it's dry when the weather is rubbish etc.

Of course you're right, we can't attract more families

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:17 pm

It does make you a stubborn old sod, yes, because that stand should be exclusively for the use of families, and by its very nature would be cyclical, as once a child is above the required age, then the now two adults aren't eligible for the family stand. They will therefore have to move to an appropriate area of the ground.

I've seen a proposal previously where all qualifying ST holders are concentrated centrally, so everyone shifts up a couple (towards the middle). That would free up.lots of seats next to each other in the wings. It's remarkably simple to do.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 pm

There's no will to do it though, there never is when it comes to any proposals with ST's.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:21 pm

Walton wrote:It does make you a stubborn old sod, yes, because that stand should be exclusively for the use of families, and by its very nature would be cyclical, as once a child is above the required age, then the now two adults aren't eligible for the family stand. They will therefore have to move to an appropriate area of the ground.

I've seen a proposal previously where all qualifying ST holders are concentrated centrally, so everyone shifts up a couple (towards the middle). That would free up.lots of seats next to each other in the wings. It's remarkably simple to do.

I am more than happy to do that and would encourage the club to do so.

You didn’t answer my question however...

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Mods, can you edit or delete the obvious troll comments please

Its actually a fairly sensible discussion

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:31 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:I am more than happy to do that and would encourage the club to do so.

You didn’t answer my question however...

I put forward a far more realistic and sensible proposal, and not a worst case ridiculous scenario you've created for effect

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:34 pm

Walton wrote:It does make you a stubborn old sod, yes, because that stand should be exclusively for the use of families, and by its very nature would be cyclical, as once a child is above the required age, then the now two adults aren't eligible for the family stand. They will therefore have to move to an appropriate area of the ground.

I've seen a proposal previously where all qualifying ST holders are concentrated centrally, so everyone shifts up a couple (towards the middle). That would free up.lots of seats next to each other in the wings. It's remarkably simple to do.

As long as you accept that people aren't allowed to choose to sit on an aisle, or in the middle of a block, or to look past a pillar rather than through it, or to sit in front of or behind the people they have been sitting in front of or behind for years. There's a trade-off between attracting new customers and annoying the regulars who've been supporting and financing the club for years; they don't want to go very far down the line of Virgin and the Gas Board, where new customers get better treatment than existing customers.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:35 pm

In all fairness, the club could enforce a family only stand quite easily.

If you're not purchasing a season ticket along with an U18 ticket then you can't buy a ST.
As it stands anyone can buy a season ticket in that stand as an adult without needing to buy an U18 ticket at the same time and I know that for a fact.

General matchday tickets could be Adult & child only up until a certain date prior to the game and then general sale after that.

Just requires a bit of thought and effort.
IF it doesn't prove successful over the course of a season then re-evaluate in the summer.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:36 pm

excellent walton, you abuse genuine fans, then cry wolf and suggest others are abusing you.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:37 pm

Walton wrote:I put forward a far more realistic and sensible proposal, and not a worst case ridiculous scenario you've created for effect

I’m not creating it for effect. The club have allowed me to renew my seat with my adult son for the last couple of years before my granddaughter was signed up. They can’t suddenly change their mind now.

With what I’m suggesting they could free up the JMU for families and give everyone else the same chance of getting the best seats. It only needs to be done once although it could be done every season if necessary

What I am gathering from your lack of a clear answer is that you are happy for others to lose their seats but you’re not prepared to yourself.

Some might consider that hypocrisy

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:39 pm

Sidney1st wrote:you must know a lot of families....

Its the Premier League, this is the time to get the kids through the gates and we have a stand for them to sit in away from the more excitable fans, it's dry when the weather is rubbish etc.

Of course you're right, we can't attract more families

It's not me that must know a lot of families it's Walton who must know a lot.Since we have been in th Premier League I have taken on 5 grandsons 3 of which are now season ticket holders in the JMU so I am doing my bit.I don't think there is the number of families out there at the moment that could take up the places vacated by the kicked out adults(who may not renew elsewhere).Perhaps you could answer my question I have asked before.If we kick these adults out and there are large gaps that we can't fill with families.How do we fill these seats when there is a high demand for tickets and other stands are sold out.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:45 pm

Jimscho wrote:It's not me that must know a lot of families it's Walton who must know a lot.Since we have been in th Premier League I have taken on 5 grandsons 3 of which are now season ticket holders in the JMU so I am doing my bit.I don't think there is the number of families out there at the moment that could take up the places vacated by the kicked out adults(who may not renew elsewhere).Perhaps you could answer my question I have asked before.If we kick these adults out and there are large gaps that we can't fill with families.How do we fill these seats when there is a high demand for tickets and other stands are sold out.

Sidney1st wrote:In all fairness, the club could enforce a family only stand quite easily.

If you're not purchasing a season ticket along with an U18 ticket then you can't buy a ST.
As it stands anyone can buy a season ticket in that stand as an adult without needing to buy an U18 ticket at the same time and I know that for a fact.

General matchday tickets could be Adult & child only up until a certain date prior to the game and then general sale after that.

Just requires a bit of thought and effort.
IF it doesn't prove successful over the course of a season then re-evaluate in the summer.

Already answered that question a little further up.

Just been looking at the vacant seats in JMU and there are a number of vacant seats that could be paired up with little aggro.
For example there are 2 single seats on either side of a pair.... all that's going to need is one person to move a little and that puts a pair of seats together ready for a parent and child.
Now that could be done after the early bird period but before general sale, it isn't rocket science to work out, just requires some emails / phone calls to the season ticket holders in those seats.
Add in some sort of incentive and jobs a good un.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 pm

A stub hub option is worth a look at.

For example, I generally know well in advance which games I will be attending, so I wouldn't be against the idea of someone else being able to purchase my seats for that one game.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 pm

I've commented before about trying to get into the family stand so that we can start taking my nephew on, but have had difficulty getting 2 seats together, let alone the 4 we'd need.

I have a question, currently there is me, my brother (both adults) and our dad (Senior) in the JML.
If my brother was able to move into the JML (family stand) and get a STH for my nephew, would both myself & dad be able to move up there with them?

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Walton you said it was a Premier League rule that we have a dedicated stand for families.By that token it is also a rule that there is no standing.Are you also going to tell those in the CFS that they can no longer stand.I may be able to go back in the CFS but am not able to stand for long periods.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:51 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Already answered that question a little further up.

Just been looking at the vacant seats in JMU and there are a number of vacant seats that could be paired up with little aggro.
For example there are 2 single seats on either side of a pair.... all that's going to need is one person to move a little and that puts a pair of seats together ready for a parent and child.
Now that could be done after the early bird period but before general sale, it isn't rocket science to work out, just requires some emails / phone calls to the season ticket holders in those seats.
Add in some sort of incentive and jobs a good un.

Absolutely, I have no issues with moving up a seat or two to make room for others to sit together.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm

In fact, looking at other stands, pairing seats up could be done all over the ground, that way when child reachs 18/19 and is over the age limit it's easier to re-seat them if pairs etc are available.

I understand people have sat in the same seat forever to the point it's shaped to their arse so they don't want to move, but the future needs to be looked at.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:09 pm

I said clearly when raising the issue, that idon't see it being possible to address family stand issues, without building additional capacity of 3/4k "good" seats.

I maintain this

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Then we'll have loads of m/t seats, rather than just a few

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:17 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:I said clearly when raising the issue, that idon't see it being possible to address family stand issues, without building additional capacity of 3/4k "good" seats.

I maintain this

No point chucking money at the potential problem when what's available isn't being managed properly in the first place.
Make things more efficient first and THEN look at capacity increases.

BillyIngham'sShorts · Post by **BillyIngham'sShorts** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:10 pm

why not increase capacity to around 28k and let away fans take up some of the slack by putting them in JM upper or even whole of JM for big 4 games.

I know this has probably been proposed on here but it has to make sense.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:38 pm

Right then.
I started going in the JMU when it first opened with my then 6 year old and I've been going in there ever since.
He is now in his late 20's and is a season ticket holder in the CFS.
My 8 year old granddaughter now sits with me (she can't make every home game I hasten to add) and she would like to apologise for bringing an OAP with her.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:29 pm

I did report the abuse of the free and discounted tickets to the club, and they said that they have had numerous reports over the years and monitor the usage of the STs via the barcodes.

They have taken action and written to people where they have suspected the free seats have been taken up with no intention of actually being used.