Sunderland : What's Gone Wrong?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:54 pm

Looking nailed on for a second successive relegation.
Huge debts, apparently. But a huge club.

So bad ownership, and bad managerial choices?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:13 pm

A club that has continually under performed, certainly in the last 50/60 years at least.

Never done much in the top division in that time no matter how much money they have had.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:14 pm

Bad ownership. Since Short bought the club they’ve changed manager far too often. Now he’s lost interest and the club is for sale. Until they get a buyer they will continue to struggle.

I still can’t get my head round the fact they got rid of Grayson too quickly and gave it to Coleman.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:18 pm

I've had a season long bet on them to go down. They looked in complete disarray last season and a bit like Villa before them. Moyes was such a poor appointment. Not a good move for Coleman either. Big expectations at the club but some very average footballers earning a lot of money.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:23 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Looking nailed on for a second successive relegation.
Huge debts, apparently. But a huge club.

So bad ownership, and bad managerial choices?

Money..Money..Money! There's a song there somewhere.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:25 pm

ClaretTony wrote: I still can’t get my head round the fact they got rid of Grayson too quickly and gave it to Coleman.

I can't get my head around the fact that they had Gus Poyet and another Dick before them two.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:26 pm

Without Bale, Coleman is showing what a poor manager he is.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:35 pm

Murger wrote:Without Bale, Coleman is showing what a poor manager he is.

Poisoned chalice.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:15 pm

Huge club....in Sunderland, that's about it

Some football fans are easily pleased, or gullible, when it comes to the stature of a club.

As for what's gone wrong, its the usual PL malaise.

Over paid in fees and wages for average players, several over the hill ones.
Short term thinking with managerial appointments.
Wage bill was, and still is, bigger than monies coming in for many years, was £80 million even a few years ago.

Their business model, along with other clubs, is the one to avoid.
We don't need an £80 million wage bill, nor do we need to be signing players onto exorbitant contracts with NO relegation clauses.

Plenty of clubs have made the mistake of trying to hang onto the coat tails of the big clubs and deluded into thinking average players are worth silly wages.

Zero sympathy for clubs falling for the agents guff in regards to wages and signing on fees.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:26 pm

Something in the water in the north east. Its probably the brooon ale they all drink. So many top players have gone to waste and many with injuries up there. Its either the nightlife or the bloody cold.

claretfern · Post by **claretfern** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:28 pm

The club have announced they are closing their premier concourse stand next season and have contacted around 1,500 fans in a bid to relocate them. This is hoped to create a better atmosphere as attendances have dwindled.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:11 am

While all around us "try" to buy success we have earned ours in an Honourable fashion.utc!

halfmanhalfbiscuit · Post by **halfmanhalfbiscuit** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:19 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Something in the water in the north east. Its probably the brooon ale they all drink. So many top players have gone to waste and many with injuries up there. Its either the nightlife or the bloody cold.

It does blow hard off that North sea.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:08 am

i Think the signing made by Sunderland over the past 5 plus years have led to this.

They seem to have an obsession with signing big name players who are over the hill. How many ex Utd players have they had in recent years? All past their best, all on big money.

Add to that a bunch of strange managerial appointments.

They must be in some debt with all those payoffs to sacked managers.

Feel for their fans. Every Sunderland fam I know is deeply passionate and generally good humoured about it all

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:48 am

claretfern wrote:The club have announced they are closing their premier concourse stand next season and have contacted around 1,500 fans in a bid to relocate them. This is hoped to create a better atmosphere as attendances have dwindled.

A lot of them are now attending Mariners Park to watch the raise of South Shields

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:50 am

SOL yesterday. Obviously announced the usual 28,000, but can’t gave been more than 10,000 there.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:35 am

Yet Newcastle in the same position would still have a packed stadium, what are they doing that is different? Or is the football mentality of the towns completely different?

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:10 am

You say that, Morpheus, but there are games a couple of seasons ago where SJP looked like 10,000 people were missing, and they’ve never struggled in the Championship when they’ve dropped down this century.

Sunderland are in a mess, and you can understand their fans not bothering. They look like they’ve been destined for L1 since last season.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:23 am

Wages
Players
Manager
Owner

All completely out of balance

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:25 am

Probably the antithesis of us, non local owners that don't understand football, constant change of managers, no long term strategy, constant overspending on players, obtaining players at the end of their careers that just want one last pay day. Biggest mistake getting rid of a manager that new the league and replaced him with a man that's basically do need nothing other than build a team round bale and send it out.. As above I have little sympathy for the club, feel sorry for the fans.

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:32 am

with Newcastle surviving (probably) in premier, Middlesbrough staying in Championship, Sunderland down to Lge1 and Hartlepool struggling in National Lge next seasons top north east derby could be Blyth v Hartlepool in National North.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:44 am

Sunderland fans have left early for a long time now. Getting away from the ground is a nightmare if you want to use the park and rode, or walk back over the bridge.
The crap football has just encouraged the number of early leavers to swell.
Re the photos, it depends when they were taken. They said on SocSat that the ground was emptying fast as soon as the second goal went in. Which is the norm at Sunderland.

The reasons are many, most mentioned above, but they can all be put at the door of Ellis. Having a foreign owner, who knows sod all about football is frightening.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:45 am

Newcastle and Sunderland not been the same teams after WWII as they were before it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:03 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:Sunderland fans have left early for a long time now. Getting away from the ground is a nightmare if you want to use the park and rode, or walk back over the bridge.
The crap football has just encouraged the number of early leavers to swell.
Re the photos, it depends when they were taken. They said on SocSat that the ground was emptying fast as soon as the second goal went in. Which is the norm at Sunderland.

The reasons are many, most mentioned above, but they can all be put at the door of Ellis. Having a foreign owner, who knows sod all about football is frightening.

Foreign owner being blamed?

Eddie Davies at Bolton ring any bells?
Pretty much identical collapse, both financially and on the pitch with similar poor managerial appointments etc.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:04 am

Shore claret wrote:Probably the antithesis of us, non local owners that don't understand football, constant change of managers, no long term strategy, constant overspending on players, obtaining players at the end of their careers that just want one last pay day. Biggest mistake getting rid of a manager that new the league and replaced him with a man that's basically do need nothing other than build a team round bale and send it out.. As above I have little sympathy for the club, feel sorry for the fans.

See Bolton for an almost identical collapse with a British owner.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:09 am

Darren Gibson just been done for drink driving

You;d have thought after last time when he knocked over a cyclist and fled the scene of the accident that maybe he'd have learnt his lesson.

But that is the sort of player that Sunderland are full of sadly, and thats why they are in deep trouble.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:34 am

What's gone right would be create a lot shorter list.

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:51 am

Took out 4 cars on the way to training apparently. Looks like he may be going to jail.

https://twitter.com/iretrogame/status/9 ... 97829?s=21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

northernpowerhouse · Post by **northernpowerhouse** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:28 am

A lot of people in the know think it's partly down to a longstanding culture of drinking and unprofessionalism among the British and Irish players. Not sure how accurate that is.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:39 am

Gibson taking out four cars drunk, before midday. Here clearly has a drinking problem......wonder if his time, at 30, is up

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:43 am

Sidney1st wrote:Foreign owner being blamed?

Eddie Davies at Bolton ring any bells?
Pretty much identical collapse, both financially and on the pitch with similar poor managerial appointments etc.

Bolton had a lot of success under Eddie Davies to begin with.
The problems began when he put his trust in Gartside.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:52 am

I'm no fan of American owners but to be fair he did spend a lot of money. Sadly, for Mackems, he spent it badly. Now he appears to have lost interest and wants out.
Re: Newcastle attendances. When Keegan saved them from going into the now Div1 they were getting 8k crowds. They are as fickle as everybody else.
The biggest problem the NE has is being seen as so isolated. I love it up there but if you are a foreign, millionaire, footballers partner you might see it differently.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:59 am

In defence of myself, I didn't say foreign owners, I said foreign owners who know nothing about football.

You're right about the North East Piston. Some lovely areas outside the Metropolis.

Much as Burnley is labelled. We're 20 miles from Manchester and even closer to some of the prettiest countryside in the country. You can make a home anywhere if you have the vision.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:53 pm

Wasnt Dyche just 24 hours from joining them a few years ago

LordBob · Post by **LordBob** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:00 pm

Bigger the club, bigger the problems I like little

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:07 pm

now Darron Gibson suspended after drink-driving charge:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43448279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:43 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Bolton had a lot of success under Eddie Davies to begin with.
The problems began when he put his trust in Gartside.

I try not to mention him incase it upsets anyone.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:49 pm

Fans who deserve better, shafted by owners so many times
Rotten club needs a complete rebuild.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:01 pm

Watched the highlights /goals yesterday, couldn't believe the shambles they were, such inept defending, wasn't anybody interested in stopping the crosses, and when they came in they were all ball watching, absolute shambles, the lot of em need to stand up and be counted, but someone clearly needs to take charge on the pitch and off it, but first and foremost their professional footballers ffs.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

IanMcL wrote:Fans who deserve better, shafted by owners so many times
Rotten club needs a complete rebuild.

Could you narrow that down a bit, there are numerous clubs that have been shafted by owners apparently.
Some haven't, some have, but also in many cases fans put immense pressure on their clubs to spend money on what they'd call big name signings etc.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:16 pm

A classic example of club run by people with lots of money but not a clue how to run a successful football club.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:23 pm

Sidney1st wrote:See Bolton for an almost identical collapse with a British owner.

Bolton and Blackburn pretty much identical in the fact they had sugar daddy's and the subsequent family had no interest in football, disaster waiting to happen. If you run your club with a sound business plan you will always have suitors wanting the club. Blackburn and Bolton were run as unsustainable hobbies.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:35 pm

Traditional old fashioned club, hugely supported but have confused ability with ambition and overreached themselves against over expectations from the owners.

Could be playing Accy Stanley next season which for a club of that size makes the mind quietly boggle.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:40 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:The reasons are many, most mentioned above, but they can all be put at the door of Ellis. Having a foreign owner, who knows sod all about football is frightening.

I don't think it's because he's foreign, he's just made some crazy decisions since he took ownership of the club. He's now totally disinterested and they have no positive future while that's the situation. The fans are walking our in their droves now match after match but they are among the most passionate fans you will find anywhere.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:08 pm

Cirrus_Minor wrote:
Could be playing Accy Stanley next season which for a club of that size makes the mind quietly boggle.

Hopefully, they'll be down Deadwood as well.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:10 pm

: DYli-ErW4AEzGU-.jpg (58.82 KiB) Viewed 2126 times

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:40 pm

Steddyman wrote:Took out 4 cars on the way to training apparently. Looks like he may be going to jail.

https://twitter.com/iretrogame/status/9 ... 97829?s=21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the way to training? Jeez, doesn’t say much for the Coleman regime if players are turning up ****** for training.

The damage is extensive. Quite clearly travelling at speed in a residential area. If not a custodial sentence, then at the very least a suspended sentence with conditions to fulfill community work, and rehabilitation if he does indeed have a problem.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:56 pm

Stanley versus Sunderland next season is going to be some event.

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:57 pm

In short, they allowed a finance person to take care of football affairs. Part of the modern approach to the game where globalisation, branding and reckless mismagement of recruitment places enormous burdens on the structure of a club.

In long, many, many things. All very sad how a club could be run into the ground in such a way. Tragic.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:29 pm

There's a very reliable way to ruin a football club - it happens in two stages.

1. go heavily into debt in a bid to stay in the Premier League.
2. fail.

Clubs getting relegated owing fortunes, are in Dickie's meadow.