Butland to start against Italy

BigF · Post by **BigF** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:58 pm

I notice that Jack Butland has got the nod to start tomorrow. A shame for Nick, I just hope he has enjoyed the experience of being in the squad.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:10 pm

Perhaps he will do 2nd half.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:15 pm

Hart will get the 2nd half and then you can all watch him throw another goal in

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:17 pm

Good chance that Pope will get the second half.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:29 pm

According to the red tops, Pope and Hart are not going to Russia. read in to that what you will.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:29 pm

Unless Tarky or Pope are going to feature in this game, I really couldn’t give two stuffs about the ‘Three Lions’

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:31 pm

ClaretAL wrote:According to the red tops, Pope and Hart are not going to Russia. read in to that what you will.

We’re only taking two keepers? Doubt it. Although unfortunately Hart will get the nod with Pickford and Butland.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:33 pm

Hart, Pickford and Butland.

That is only 2 keepers, one cant be classed as a keeper

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:35 pm

Isn't it 2 keepers with an emergency call up option if needed per squad?

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:37 pm

Hart is past his best and Pope deserves a start but I can’t believe all the animosity he seems to get. Pickford, Butland and Pope (although it pains me to say it) won’t have careers anywhere near as successful.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:39 pm

ClaretAL wrote:Isn't it 2 keepers with an emergency call up option if needed per squad?

It’s usual to take three keepers in a squad of 23.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:40 pm

I confidently predict pope will not get a half.

Anyone who believes otherwise is enjoying a naivety normally only enjoyed by small children.

He may get lucky and get five minutes as a thank you for turning up. But I doubt it.

thelaughingclaret · Post by **thelaughingclaret** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:46 pm

Does Pope qualify to play for any other nation? He’s never going to play for England, certainly not regularly whilst he plays for a team the FA seems to be lower then every other premier league side despite the fact that teams sits in 7th in the table.
Same goes for Tarks as well really. They should get out if they can before they get a cap and it’s too late.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:48 pm

Shame Pope unlikely to get a game but never really expected from 4th keeper. Love to see him get 20 mins
Hart has been a top class keeper and very consistent throughout hi career .Been a bit unlucky at that toxic mess at West Ham and has every error highlighted .if he wasn’t such a greedy barsteward he could have gone to a better club . I’d be surprised if some of his critics have even seen their own balls this last ten yrs never mind one at 80mph

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:55 pm

I suspect Southgate is still holding out for Tom coming back and will give Nick constructive feedback about his game with the ball at his feet. He wants a leader in that keeper group,which Tom is, Tom would not be number one unlike his prospects before the injury, but he would be a capable number three.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Southgate has confirmed he wanted to give Pickford and Butland a game each so Butland will play the full 90 unless he gets injured or sent off.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:43 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s usual to take three keepers in a squad of 23.

It’s obligatory, I think. Was it N Korea in 2010 who tried to take an extra outfield player only to be told that he could only play in goal?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:47 pm

ClaretAL wrote:Isn't it 2 keepers with an emergency call up option if needed per squad?

That was the rule when squads were 22; it was specifically for that reason that they made it 23 man squads, and I think Greenmile is right that having 3 goalkeepers is compulsory. I'm not sure what happens if a rash of punch-ups, injuries, and bookings in the first two games mean you don't have 10 outfield players left - would you be allowed to play a goalkeeper in the outfield then?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:52 pm

ClaretAL wrote:According to the red tops, Pope and Hart are not going to Russia. read in to that what you will.

If true, maybe Southgate is expecting Tom Heaton to be fit again and in the squad.

EDIT: Just as Crosspool had already posted, above. Memo to self - read all the posts before posting (maybe).

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:30 pm

I’m pretty sure had TH had a good season he’d be no 1 , he’s s better alround keeper than Butland and Pickford and I think he’d be a calmer and use his age as experience. Not sure Pickford would have been the go to guy if TH had got established .

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:44 pm

The joy of Southgate is that he likes to look at young players , of whom he has worked with and judged early.

However, players are not all pushed into u19 anf u21 by the top clubs who want to give their young softies some game time. Some come through the hard way via lower league and Old pros kicking you.. He is reluctant to test their talent.

When it comes to goalkeepers, an agile u21 sparkling talent does not necessarily mature to be a wise and thinking GK. Pickford and Butland look to be still learning and prone to silly errors. Pope is better than them this season but without a pedigree. Hart is not as good as he promised and yet gets forgiven perpetually. Not good as he is now shot. Heaton is the classy matured keeper with pedigree and leadership.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:04 am

When you look at it without claret-tinted specs:
Nick Pope has done remarkably well to even get a call up. I think we have to accept that a 'keeper with about 20 games at PL level is hardly likely to replace either Butland or Pickford, and I'm almost certain they'll want Hart there for his experience

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:11 am

thelaughingclaret wrote:Does Pope qualify to play for any other nation? He’s never going to play for England, certainly not regularly whilst he plays for a team the FA seems to be lower then every other premier league side despite the fact that teams sits in 7th in the table.
Same goes for Tarks as well really. They should get out if they can before they get a cap and it’s too late.

You're talking out of your ass, I don't particularly like Southgate but he's actually shaken the squad up and picked players on form. Cork got a cap earlier in the season, he's picked Tarkowski and Mawson over Cahill and Smalling. The only real ''out of form'' players in the current squad are Hart and Welbeck, Welbeck is twice the player in an England shirt and there simply was no other goalkeeper to take ahead of Hart plus Harts experience around the young squad could be valuable. I don't understand the negativity on here with Southgate, it's like everyone on here wants him to fail because he hasn't got the entire Burnley team starting games. It's quite sad really.....

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:14 am

boatshed bill wrote:When you look at it without claret-tinted specs:
Nick Pope has done remarkably well to even get a call up. I think we have to accept that a 'keeper with about 20 games at PL level is hardly likely to replace either Butland or Pickford, and I'm almost certain they'll want Hart there for his experience

If they want a man for his experience, they can take him - they don't have to put him in the 23 man squad. They can take Peter Shilton for his experience too, if they want - he doesn't have to be in the squad.

Anyone who is in the squad is there for his ability as a player. If Hart is in the squad, it's because Southgate thinks his ability as a goalkeeper is worth the place.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:15 am

KRBFC wrote:You're talking out of your ass, I don't particularly like Southgate but he's actually shaken the squad up and picked players on form. Cork got a cap earlier in the season, he's picked Tarkowski and Mawson over Cahill and Smalling. The only real ''out of form'' players in the current squad are Hart and Welbeck, Welbeck is twice the player in an England shirt and there simply was no other goalkeeper to take ahead of Hart plus Harts experience around the young squad could be valuable. I don't understand the negativity on here with Southgate, it's like everyone on here wants him to fail because he hasn't got the entire Burnley team starting games. It's quite sad really.....

I sort of agree with that.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:20 am

dsr wrote:If they want a man for his experience, they can take him - they don't have to put him in the 23 man squad. They can take Peter Shilton for his experience too, if they want - he doesn't have to be in the squad.

Anyone who is in the squad is there for his ability as a player. If Hart is in the squad, it's because Southgate thinks his ability as a goalkeeper is worth the place.

Yep,
or Fraser Forster, Ray Clemence, Dave Seaman....etc. Hart has modern football experience, I can see why he would be chosen as one of three.
The daft thing is that many posters on here claim that Butland and Pickford are also crap, you can't have it both ways.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:20 am

dsr wrote:If they want a man for his experience, they can take him - they don't have to put him in the 23 man squad. They can take Peter Shilton for his experience too, if they want - he doesn't have to be in the squad.

Anyone who is in the squad is there for his ability as a player. If Hart is in the squad, it's because Southgate thinks his ability as a goalkeeper is worth the place.

Guesswork

maybe Southgate thinks having Hart around the 3 younger keepers could really improve them? kind of like Robinson did here with Heaton. Hart may not be the keeper he was 5 years ago but he was world class previously and has won trophies. I'm sure Pope will be happy to be working with and learning off an experienced head like Hart.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 am

I'm not overly convinced Hart has ever been world class.
If he was he'd still be at City, or another top club, but because he can't be taught/coached to play in a different way he was shipped out.

As it is he's 2nd choice at West Ham.

A 40yr old Buffon is still a better keeper than Hart.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:17 am

KRBFC wrote:Guesswork

maybe Southgate thinks having Hart around the 3 younger keepers could really improve them? kind of like Robinson did here with Heaton. Hart may not be the keeper he was 5 years ago but he was world class previously and has won trophies. I'm sure Pope will be happy to be working with and learning off an experienced head like Hart.

I'm talking about Hart being possibly in the World Cup 23-man squad, not this current squad.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:10 am

Daily Mirror predicting Tarkowski will start tonight alongside Stones.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:45 am

I can understand why Pickford started at the weekend. Southgate wants to play a certain way and Pickford has the best distribution so it makes sense. I can't say the same about Butland though. He's had a poor season, so much so that I'm surprised Lee Grant hasn't had more game time. His distribution is ok but nothing more. On current form i see no reason why he'd be above Pope in the pecking order.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:31 am

Pickford really impressed v Holland

Butland is probably second choice and all the talk appears to be that a fit Tom Heaton would be third.

Pope has had an amazing season, but I'm guessing that he'd have to be completely faultless from here on in to have a chance of making the squad (which at the same time would remove Heaton from the England squad). Put it another way, one of either Pope or Heaton is going to the World Cup.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:44 am

No they aren't Lancaster, it's going to be Hart, unless there are some injuries to one of the 3 main keepers our lads won't go.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:45 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Pickford really impressed v Holland

I wasn't impressed. What did he do? On the bad side, he came for a cross that he couldn't get to and he twice got caught in possession and got away with it. What were the good bits?

I know Southgate wants a goalkeeper who isn't afraid to take his man on and will play the short pass at risk of losing the ball; Dyche doesn't, which is why Pope wellies it when under any pressure. I prefer the Pope approach.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:50 am

But you've answered why Pickford had a good game in your post dsr.

Southgate wants him to play like that, and he didn't get caught and we looked better than we have for years (against a poor Dutch team, who incidentally beat Portugal 3-0 last night)

Pope is an excellent keeper but Southgate wants a keeper who can do what Pickford can do. I'm not sure that Pope can play it like that to be perfectly honest.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:51 am

Southgate said when the squad was selected that he needed to look at Pope just in case one of his keepers got an injury or was unavailable. He's basically got his squad sorted for the World Cup.

Pope will have gained from the experience but I think it would be a big surprise if it wasn't Pickford, Butland & Hart going to the World Cup.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:52 am

dsr wrote:I wasn't impressed. What did he do? On the bad side, he came for a cross that he couldn't get to and he twice got caught in possession and got away with it. What were the good bits?

I know Southgate wants a goalkeeper who isn't afraid to take his man on and will play the short pass at risk of losing the ball; Dyche doesn't, which is why Pope wellies it when under any pressure. I prefer the Pope approach.

If Pickford wellied everything, the pass he made to start the move for the goal would never have happened.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:52 am

I don't think they can pick Hart.

I get the experience angle but he hasn't played and when he has he's been terrible.

Saying that, it took them years to realise that Fraser Forster is absolutely appalling....

Milltown1882 · Post by **Milltown1882** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:02 am

Pope will be 4th in line and rightly so so close to a World Cup.

We all know Butland's injury record so that is probably Pope's biggest chance of going. It'll do him the world of good to be training with those three and being around the England squad.

Can see the reasoning with Hart going as he has the tournament experience in what is a relatively inexperienced squad.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am

BurnleyFC wrote:Hart is past his best and Pope deserves a start but I can’t believe all the animosity he seems to get. Pickford, Butland and Pope (although it pains me to say it) won’t have careers anywhere near as successful.

Animosity? When someone's career is over yet they're too selfish to admit it and the manager too gutless to tell them... It's not animosity if people are getting frustrated at the same old mistakes being made over and over again.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:25 am

It's quite strange how keepers are viewed.
If there was a previously unheard of English centre forward who had banged 25 goals in so far this Season, he'd currently be starting, as it's a better option than the other players in his position. Yet when a goalkeeper is clearly statistically the best current option it isn't viewed the same way.
Based on current form Pope should be No.1, even without the claret tinted spectacles on.

Oh well, Pope will watch whichever keepers get selected on the TV like the rest of us, watching them make mistakes and cost us goals like usual, but it's ok, because they keep us on the front foot. ********.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:26 am

There have been loads of strikers who have scored lots of goals but haven't been picked because they don't fit the national team system.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:29 am

thelaughingclaret wrote:Does Pope qualify to play for any other nation? He’s never going to play for England, certainly not regularly whilst he plays for a team the FA seems to be lower then every other premier league side despite the fact that teams sits in 7th in the table.
Same goes for Tarks as well really. They should get out if they can before they get a cap and it’s too late.

Vatican City

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:33 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:There have been loads of strikers who have scored lots of goals but haven't been picked because they don't fit the national team system.

Name them?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:34 am

Fowler, Wright, Le Tissier, Phillips, Sutton......

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:41 am

Fowler was selected quite early in his career, Wright was playing 2nd Division Football early doors went on to get 30 caps, Le Tiss was unfortunate there were better all round players than him, Phillips dissapointed on the big stage when handed chances, Sutton was a b@stard.

None of them were better than the other options available at their time....

Pope is.....

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:42 am

Pope can't kick

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:45 am

A goalkeeper is there to stop goals, If he concedes a total of zero goals in a game he can kick the ball where he likes for all I care.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:30 am

Pickford conceded zero goals on Friday, and started the move which culminated in England's winner, because he can pass a ball.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:57 am

Juan Tanamera wrote:Daily Mirror predicting Tarkowski will start tonight alongside Stones.

Hope that turns out to be the case, thatll be of greater interest
than the keeper position for me.