GK Nkoudou

Claretforshaw · Post by **Claretforshaw** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:01 pm

Would Wells Have been a better option ? I can't really comment having only seen the Sky highlights, I wonder what Wells can offer with Sean putting GK first.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I was in the away end behind the goal.

And I was in the away end behind the goal and I am mystified anyone could have thought NKoudou had a better game than Lennon.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:21 pm

He didn't do badly considering it was his first start, but he has opportunities galore in the first half to really harm WBA and he didn't really take advantage of the situations.

it wasn't a bad performance at all, but it wasn't anything like as incisive or as clinical as Lennons was.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:26 pm

Wouldn't have minded seeing Taylor start wide on the left.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:59 pm

Claretforshaw wrote:Would Wells Have been a better option ? I can't really comment having only seen the Sky highlights, I wonder what Wells can offer with Sean putting GK first.

Wells is a striker, he is about as adept as playing on the wing as Andre Gray was, perhaps worse.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:11 pm

I've probably never realised until today how great the urge is for some to be a football pundit/critic.
How about just giving the lad a chance before writing him off?

claretrobo1 · Post by **claretrobo1** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:17 pm

Thought GK had a great game yesterday. Yes he lost the ball a few times but you can see he’s really hungry and a monster on the ball. Quite good defensively as well. With confidence and game time then he could become a proper good player

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:25 pm

No one on here is writing him off.

I don't think anyone is adverse to us buying him either, as he's a prospect but it depends on what Spurs want for him.

AshevilleNCClaret · Post by **AshevilleNCClaret** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:31 pm

Frankly I think he did fine. For someone we just signed in January and has not had a lot of PL games, he did as expected. Sometimes when a player hasn't played, I seem to pay more attention to them when they do play and I watched his play pretty close in the first half. Seemed to be trying too hard but again, probably from lack of playing time, but can't fault the effort and desire.

I would be surprised if he initially goes back to Tottenham. With the signing of Moura, I don't think he has a future there, but is definitely Premier League quality and will latch on to some team.
I think he might start the next season with us. Brady MIGHT be back by January 2019, Arfield is most likely gone, and he would be an injury away from starting. Heck, I think he might get at least 2 more starts before JBG is put back in the starting lineup.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:35 pm

For his first ever premier league start (including spurs)
He looked threatening, with time he could be a very dangerous player for us. Offers us something we don’t have.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I don't know Pochettino's plans so couldn't comment on that. I do take the point of not judging on one showing but he had so many opportunities yesterday and wasted virtually all of them. Really disappointing performance.

Nor do I and there is a strong chance he doesn't make it at Spurs. But when we signed him on loan Spurs were clear there was no permanent signing clause in this agreement and I think that says something about how they currently view him.

halfmanhalfbiscuit · Post by **halfmanhalfbiscuit** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:00 pm

One of the main things you look for in a player is endeavour. Without it, you’re a talent who didn’t make it. You need both, he has both.

Lots of comments on him trying too hard and playing for himself?
His defensive work was excellent.
He never stopped showing for the ball and he pushed West Brom back all afternoon. It’s no accident they played so deep.
When he came off we looked weaker and conceded a goal.

Clearly a popular player, and clearly well respected by both his team mates and his manager. As there was an obvious directive to give him the ball.
Yes, his final ball could have been better. And no, he’s not a starter – yet.
But he really didn’t have a ‘poor’ game.
He did really well.
And he was a massive contributor to yesterdays result.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:57 am

ClaretTony wrote:And I was in the away end behind the goal and I am mystified anyone could have thought NKoudou had a better game than Lennon.

Agreed.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:33 am

Papabendi wrote:Nor do I and there is a strong chance he doesn't make it at Spurs. But when we signed him on loan Spurs were clear there was no permanent signing clause in this agreement and I think that says something about how they currently view him.

I don't have any details of the loan contract so wouldn't know that.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:53 am

There were posters on here who thought Ash wasn't good enough for the Championship.
Posters who thought Mee was a liability.
I've not seen all of Saturday's match, so don't know what sort of game GKN had, but to judge any players future based on one game is head shakingly sad and stupid.

Hedontplayforyou · Post by **Hedontplayforyou** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:05 am

GKN got on the ball a lot and tried to make things happen. Wingers like that don’t pull it off every time, but he wasn’t afraid of trying again and again. Plus it was his first start and the longest he’s had in the side to date. You expecting a Lionel Messi performance from minute 1?

His pace is frightening, I thought he had a mixed bag yes but plenty of positives there for sure! Personally I’d like to see him get more minutes before the end of the season to see what he is like on a more regular basis, with a view to buying him if spurs deem him surplus to requirements.

Plenty of room for development and he could learn from Lennon too, wouldn’t mind us buying him at all just on those points alone. Price dependent obviously.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:52 pm

I don't see anyone writing him off, nor anyone demanding he be Messi. I just see lots of people cautioning that whatever attributes he showed on Saturday (chiefly pace and a good attitude, and a willingness to find space) it was very much a performance that hinted at potential rather than delivering the sort of instant impact that would automatically demand we try and sign him permanently.

I thought he was a little wasteful and that his performance was in stark contrast to Lennon, who saw less of the ball but delivered- and actually threatened - more, and also looked much more like he knew what to do with his pace and ability. But that's not the same thing as saying he doesn't have potential (or indeed didnt show talent), or that we definitely shouldn't sign him or that he shouldn't get another chance. We need to see more to make our minds up.

What i will say is that the speed at which he got a fully blown chant from the away end, when there are a number of players who have been outstanding all season whose name wasn't chanted once, baffled me a bit, even if it is good that the kid was given encouragement and support (and perhaps that's more a criticism of the way we don't sing enough about the likes of Mee, Lowton, Ward, Cork and even Wood rather than the reaction to Nkoudou).

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:00 pm

claretspice wrote:I don't see anyone writing him off, nor anyone demanding he be Messi. I just see lots of people cautioning that whatever attributes he showed on Saturday (chiefly pace and a good attitude, and a willingness to find space) it was very much a performance that hinted at potential rather than delivering the sort of instant impact that would automatically demand we try and sign him permanently.

I thought he was a little wasteful and that his performance was in stark contrast to Lennon, who saw less of the ball but delivered- and actually threatened - more, and also looked much more like he knew what to do with his pace and ability. But that's not the same thing as saying he doesn't have potential (or indeed didnt show talent), or that we definitely shouldn't sign him or that he shouldn't get another chance. We need to see more to make our minds up.

What i will say is that the speed at which he got a fully blown chant from the away end, when there are a number of players who have been outstanding all season whose name wasn't chanted once, baffled me a bit, even if it is good that the kid was given encouragement and support (and perhaps that's more a criticism of the way we don't sing enough about the likes of Mee, Lowton, Ward, Cork and even Wood rather than the reaction to Nkoudou).

You can start chants yourself you know, if you're not happy with what others are singing.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 pm

He's the sort of player that can excite fans when going forward
and probably worries defenders as you don't quite know what he's going to do.
I thought he had a reasonably good game even though quite a few things
he tried didn't come off or were wasted.

I think the other Burnley players and the fans have taken to him even
though he's only started one game and I also think Dyche can improve him in time.
Whether he gets another start is debatable especially if GKN is fit.

But I think he deserves a few run outs as he offers something different to GKN.

Whatever, it was good to see us with two wingers.
Be interesting to see whether Dyche decides to make a bid for him at the end of the season.

I do think he could offer us something.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:04 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:You can start chants yourself you know, if you're not happy with what others are singing.

Fair comment and I did put that observation as "we".

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:25 pm

claretspice wrote:Fair comment and I did put that observation as "we".

In the early 90s when people went on the terraces from 2pm with no loud music and crap hand shakes before the game, every single player got his name chanted starting with the keeper.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:06 pm

boatshed bill wrote:I've probably never realised until today how great the urge is for some to be a football pundit/critic.
How about just giving the lad a chance before writing him off?

I know we all have different views and see players differently, I certainly question players ability from time to time. But never after one game!

Some of the criticism he has received (after showing some real promise) is just very poor.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:26 am

I was impressed with how often he showed and how often he got the ball. Really like that in a player. But I can't remember him actually beating a man all game (not that that's important if he's doing other things right).

The one thing I really did notice is how often he was knocked off the ball....by, let's face it, much bigger defenders. That's really going to be his challenge in transitioning from the French league to the Premier.

ten bellies · Post by **ten bellies** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:20 am

He's clearly got talent. He looked desperate to impress on Saturday, particularly in the first 20 minutes. He settled more into being a team player the longer the game went on. His decision making early on was poor, as was his quality of passing. He could be a real threat, particularly if he learned from the fella on the other wing. Lennon had a great game.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:08 am

claretspice wrote:I don't see anyone writing him off, nor anyone demanding he be Messi. I just see lots of people cautioning that whatever attributes he showed on Saturday (chiefly pace and a good attitude, and a willingness to find space) it was very much a performance that hinted at potential rather than delivering the sort of instant impact that would automatically demand we try and sign him permanently.

I thought he was a little wasteful and that his performance was in stark contrast to Lennon, who saw less of the ball but delivered- and actually threatened - more, and also looked much more like he knew what to do with his pace and ability. But that's not the same thing as saying he doesn't have potential (or indeed didnt show talent), or that we definitely shouldn't sign him or that he shouldn't get another chance. We need to see more to make our minds up.

What i will say is that the speed at which he got a fully blown chant from the away end, when there are a number of players who have been outstanding all season whose name wasn't chanted once, baffled me a bit, even if it is good that the kid was given encouragement and support (and perhaps that's more a criticism of the way we don't sing enough about the likes of Mee, Lowton, Ward, Cork and even Wood rather than the reaction to Nkoudou).

Perhaps the fans could see he was nervous but tried hard. So got right behind him to boost his confidence.

Perhaps we should have booed him

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:45 pm

I was chuffed to bits for the lad, first start in the PL, no doubting he was trying so hard that he made mistakes as the adrenaline pumped around his body at a speed it hasn't done for a while, (PL game adrenaline v U23 game adrenaline). I am firmly in the camp that is saying give the lad a chance, surely we saw enough to realise he has great potential at this level. When all are fit to have Lennon, Brady, JBG and GKN to select from would be a step forward imo.

Milltown1882 · Post by **Milltown1882** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Perhaps the fans could see he was nervous but tried hard. So got right behind him to boost his confidence.

Perhaps we should have booed him

I’d be more concerned about an ex player getting the biggest chant of the day than one of our own players being sung about.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:25 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:I’d be more concerned about an ex player getting the biggest chant of the day than one of our own players being sung about.

Agree completely. But then Ings, another who ****** us off and left on bad terms allegedly would get a heroes welcome too and Hendrick would get moaned at for a misplaced pass... Strange at times our lot.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:27 pm

I personally hope the kid gets another chance on Saturday against Watford and rips them another one..

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Agree completely. But then Ings, another who ****** us off and left on bad terms allegedly would get a heroes welcome too and Hendrick would get moaned at for a misplaced pass... Strange at times our lot.

Hendrick doesn't pass the ball he re-cycles it.

claretrobo1 · Post by **claretrobo1** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:55 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Agree completely. But then Ings, another who ****** us off and left on bad terms allegedly would get a heroes welcome too and Hendrick would get moaned at for a misplaced pass... Strange at times our lot.

How did Ings leave on bad terms?

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:53 pm

'Lennon.......... looked more like he knew what to do with his pace and ability'.
I would sincerely hope so.

Grossly unfair to even consider comparing him with a seasoned Premier League player and international.

TopCat · Post by **TopCat** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:30 pm

Hope he gets another game on Saturday. Apparently JBG will not be fit.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:01 am

claretrobo1 wrote:How did Ings leave on bad terms?

Apparently nobody at the club, Dyche included are on speaking terms with him among other things.

And didnt he throw his toys out the pram at sunderland the season he left?

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:00 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Apparently nobody at the club, Dyche included are on speaking terms with him among other things.

And didnt he throw his toys out the pram at sunderland the season he left?

He didn't have one of his better games at Sunderland but I wouldn't say ' he threw his toys out the pram'. The rest sounds a little melodramatic to me but then again I'm not ' in the know'.

what_no_pies · Post by **what_no_pies** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:39 pm

Danny Ings was sat behind us in the James Hargreaves suite a good few months after leaving. Seemed to be getting along swimmingly with fellow players and wives.

Claret in the Ninch · Post by **Claret in the Ninch** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:58 am

First time I saw him play in the flesh yesterday, and I have to say I wasn't impressed. He doesn't look like a Dyche player at the moment - he pulled out of tackles, was scared to head the ball from a goal kick, and his lack of tracking back put us under pressure when he has on the pitch. I noticed that their goal came from him pulling out of a challenge, and watching MOTD this morning, you can see Westwood pointing the finger at him the second the ball goes into the net.

Don't like singling out players, and it may be that he just had a bad game. But we looked a lot more solid with Barnes on the left wing when Vokes came on. What do you think - was he just having a bad game or has he played better than this to warrant a longer spell in the team?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:15 pm

He looks to me like his heart isn't at Burnley and he just doesn't have the same umph that the rest of the team have. Which, like you say, isn't the Dyche way.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:20 pm

He looked a lot better last week. Yesterday he just didn’t seem to be the same player.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:28 pm

Poor yesterday but only his second start be good to see him get a start at home next week.

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:29 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Poor yesterday but only his second start be good to see him get a start at home next week.

Id prefer to see JBG. tbh

mickleoverclaret · Post by **mickleoverclaret** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:31 pm

Certainly his worst game for us, but winning headers and going into tackles is never gonna be the game of a 5ft9 winger. We didn't get him on the ball and let him show what he can do going forward.

Milltown1882 · Post by **Milltown1882** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:53 pm

Was poor in the first half yesterday, probably not the best option against a team that’s physical and wants to spend 90% of the time on the floor. Looked like he’d had a rocket up him at half time and seemed much better after the break.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:57 pm

I thought he was poor and would have been hooked at half time. I marked him a 4 for yesterday and one of those marks was for the blatant foul in the 2nd half when Watford were breaking, for which he was booked. Last week it looked like he tried too hard, yesterday he looked like he didn't belong on the pitch.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:58 pm

I didn't think there was much to choose between the levels he reached last week and those he reached today, to be honest. The difference was more in the quality of the opposition, and the way they set up.

West Brom were crap, Watford weren't. West Brom appeared to start with a game plan that involved allowing us to dominate possession and then giving us absolutely acres of space out wide (not helped by their 352 system). That meant both wingers but especially Nkoudou had loads of opportunity to threaten. Yesterday we played a team playing with 5 in midfield rather than 3, and who had the legs and quality to dominate that department. As a result we rarely got either winger in positions to threaten, although as you'd expect Lennon showed his class by doing much more with the opportunities he had.

In fairness to Nkoudou there were a couple of moments in the second half when he showed really good close skills to carry the ball out of tight spaces and help us relieve pressure (one resulted in a yellow card). But I did think at times his appreciation of how to create space for himself and others was lacking, just as at WBA where he didn't make the most of the wide acres and 2v1s he was offered. I think this is his biggest problem- he still plays too much as an individual.

He was tested much more yesterday out of possession and he did struggle a bit. In fairness I think it's wrong to put this down to a lack if effort or willingness. It's just a huge step up on what he's used to. His fault tended to be switching off for a nano second and allowing the full back or winger to get beyond him and it did put Ward under pressure.

But he's young and raw. I haven't changed my mind from last week- at the right price he might be worth a punt because he's clearly got some talent. But if there's a significant transfer fee involved I'd be a bit wary because he looks very raw and naive for a 23 year old who has been a professional for 5 years or so.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:06 pm

Lightweight, didnt track back and no end product. I wouldn't buy and suspect after Spurs his career will go backwards.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:10 pm

He did track back, lots. Perhaps not as effectively as we'd have ideally liked, but to say he didn't track back is plain wrong. I don't recall oncr seeing him standing watching us defend when he should have been involved. He was trying but it's an area of his game where he needs to improve his reading of the game.

Wilsdenclaret · Post by **Wilsdenclaret** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:14 pm

He clearly has something but not sure we will have the time or inclination to help him develop, reminds me a bit of the situation with Stanislas

ClaretCliffofDover · Post by **ClaretCliffofDover** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:15 pm

First game I've managed to get to this season! i was impressed by the Clarets overall, it was a solid if unspectacular away performance, full of confidence and organisation.

I thought Nkoudou was lively. He always made himself available and was willing to take people on. In this game however he wasn't particularly effective - I didn't see him create much with crosses, and he was a bit of a weak link defensively - but there was certainly no lack of effort on his part and he will only improve with more games.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:15 pm

Tried his best.