Increase In London Crime...Whats Going On?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:30 am

Seventeen year old girl shot dead in Tottenham yesterday, bringing the total
of murders so far this year to 47. (More than New York in February, according to the Evening Standard.)

Whats driving this surge? Drugs? Gangs? (Maybe one for London based Clarets)

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:39 am

Brexit

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:43 am

Immigration control,cultures,and lack of education.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:44 am

It's only 'more than New York' when weighted by population.

There have been 50 murders in NY this year, compared to 46 in London.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:44 am

Sean Dyche is not the Mayor, that's why.

He would sort the nutters out.

PLTMGMBJ · Post by **PLTMGMBJ** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:45 am

It's a Turf war over the Pie and Mash Mines of old London Town. The Aunt Bessies Crew and the Pukka Massive are prevalent in the area.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:45 am

The government cuts to front-line policing have contributed massively to this.

Remember it next time there's an election.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:49 am

More utter nonsense.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:50 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:It's only 'more than New York' when weighted by population.

I'm sure that's a massive comfort to the families that have lost loved ones.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:51 am

Some 'expert' this morning said it was because NY cops are all armed and ours aren't.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:52 am

Since 2010/11, police forces have seen a 25% cut in government funding.

And people wonder why crime goes up.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:54 am

There are virtually no police in my area...yet no shootings or knife murders at all.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:54 am

At least crime by the police has gone down (apparently)

RicardoMontalban · Post by **RicardoMontalban** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:54 am

I think the headline comparisons with New York’s murder rate has more to do with the significant decrease in that city’s rate than any real change in London’s. Relatively speaking both London and New York are ‘pretty safe’ for cities of their size. Granted, for the few years I lived in Brixton it didn’t always feel that way!

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:55 am

Well, 6 months ago the head of the Met police said cuts had made tackling crime harder, and warned against any more cuts:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -extremism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government has carried on cutting.

It’s not just London, crime is on the rise throughout England and Wales:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 78631.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The police forces have had thousands of officers and millions of pounds taken away from them, and people genuinely still wonder why crime has risen in London and England?

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:01 am

Combination of factors you’d imagine.
Gangs, availability of weapons, tit for tat and acts of revenge, lack of policing resources, increased coverage.

Thankfully there is little knife and gun culture in this area

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:05 am

" Since 2010/11, police forces have seen a 25% cut in government funding. And people wonder why crime goes up."

Knife crime (reports) peaked in 2011, then steadily fell & were c a third down on that by 2014/2015 (ie whilst the police cuts you suggest as the cause were taking place).
In the past year it's risen back to the 2011 peak. Not really strong evidence of a police numbers/knife crime (inverse) correlation.

Maybe it's more to do with a lack of conviction in tackling such crimes in case the measures required upset some people?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:05 am

Loyalclaret wrote:Combination of factors you’d imagine.
Gangs, availability of weapons, tit for tat and acts of revenge, lack of policing resources, increased coverage.

Thankfully there is little knife and gun culture in this area

Pretty much; and Cressida Dick says more social media spats are now escalating into actual physical violence. We're always telling the kids to spend less time on their phones and more out and about

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:06 am

Lots of reasons, but you'd be hard pushed not to think that police cuts are to blame.

For some strange reason, my twitter feed is full of white people blaming it all on the Mayor.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:07 am

Lack of sufficient punishment too. More punitive sentences for anyone carrying knives or ill illegal weapons. I do think education plays a large part in this. There was a debate the other day about reformed ex gang members talking to the youths. Some people were aghast but I think this is where rehabilitation works. The people talking to them are from similar backgrounds and know the peer pressures these youths face before they get sucked into a life of crime.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:08 am

Can Trump not be blamed in some way ?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:10 am

By bringing West ham to the fore via the London Stadium fiasco, they are trying to make out 'Eastenders' rule OK. In the pubs, people say they are West Ham as a threat, like it means they are the firm.

It's all about getting folk to kick off against each other to cover something else up.

MOTD press a pair of CGI underpants to the back of one's skull every few seconds, to be 'in yer face'

Every website is now putting well chosen photos 'in yer face'

The sh*t stirring and power mongering is sickening.

Radio 1 Extra and the Asian Network is saying they rule, talk is of 'the street' and 'the ghetto.'

Soweto and L.A. South Central is entirely self-created violence. So is Landown and it's geezer bullshit.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lots of reasons, but you'd be hard pushed not to think that police cuts are to blame.

For some strange reason, my twitter feed is full of white people blaming it all on the Mayor.

I think police morale may have something to do with it; which may be a result of cuts and/or the inability to do the job as they want.

Either way I think the availability of weapons is a bigger factor. The price of a gun in Leicester has reduced down to as little as £20, as the knife crime of whites/blacks and Asians has been challenged by the arrival of Eastern European gangs.

Community leaders have a massive role to play, and many do a brilliant job.They can teach their own kids about gun crime, but they somehow have to keep them out of the way of the new breed of gang.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:19 am

Which is why I said there are lots of reasons Guich.

I'd agree that community leaders have a huge part of play, but you have to offer people a vision of the future that involves a bit more than what is currently on offer.

It does seem daft that as one the richest countries in the world we don't spend more on trying to sort this kind of stuff out.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:19 am

You rarely see a real policeman/woman on the beat nowadays, they nearly always seem to be 'Community Support' people. I have witnessed 3 or 4 cars/vans responding to the same incident from the police station on several occasions whilst in Burnley. It's almost akin to the police sitting and waiting for something to happen and then go mob handed in response. I'm sure that isn't the policy but it does seem to happen a lot.

As an occasional tourist to London you always see an overt presence in the City but how much patrolling goes on in the actual estates in London I wonder and would it make a difference anyway?

Without being in anyway racist, there has been a massive culture change in the UK over the past 50 or so years and many of these cultures have little or no respect for the law. There is no longer a solution that would be deemed acceptable in a modern western society, it has gone too far already.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:20 am

Blackrod wrote:Lack of sufficient punishment too. More punitive sentences for anyone carrying knives or ill illegal weapons. I do think education plays a large part in this. There was a debate the other day about reformed ex gang members talking to the youths. Some people were aghast but I think this is where rehabilitation works. The people talking to them are from similar backgrounds and know the peer pressures these youths face before they get sucked into a life of crime.

That's bang on. Ex Gang members throughout the Midlands are working with kids, several now with well established boxing clubs and one martial arts club I know. I'm convinced they each have the ability to, and probably have, saved lives.

And it's time the NHS (at an executive level) got to grips with mental health issues for black men.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:25 am

The abolition of "stop and search" means that carrying weapons is a lot safer than it was - unless you use it, you aren't going to get caught.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:27 am

Stop and Search hasn't been abolished, what are you on about?

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:31 am

People are frustrated at Sadiq Khan because admist the cut in police, he finds it perfectly acceptable to launch a 'online hate crime hub' - is this really needed?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:34 am

CoolClaret wrote:People are frustrated at Sadiq Khan because admist the cut in police, he finds it perfectly acceptable to launch a 'online hate crime hub' - is this really needed?

You spelled Amber Rudd wrong

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -crime-hub

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:41 am

They should never have arrested the Krays. Taking them out was tantamount to removing Gaddafi from Libya.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:50 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:You spelled Amber Rudd wrong

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home ... -crime-hub

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39692811" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-release ... hate-crime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'24 April 2017
The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, today launched a new police unit – the first of its kind in the UK - to help tackle online hate crime and improve support for victims across the capital, as part of his manifesto commitment to ensure a zero-tolerance approach to hate crime of all forms.'

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:52 am

dermotdermot wrote:They should never have arrested the Krays. Taking them out was tantamount to removing Gaddafi from Libya.

I suspect the Krays would have been overwhelmed by the Somalis ,the Eastern Europeans and all the other violent groups we have welcomed to this country .

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:53 am

Course, if you looked at it long term, that kind of thing is helpful in community cohesion........

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:03 pm

Does murdering a 17 year old girl constitute a "hate crime " , or is that perhaps not the kind of "hate" they're looking for ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:10 pm

I don't know, because the reports don't say that at the moment.

You don't think that a long term strategy on community cohesion is a good idea I take it?

And do we know how many police its actually taken off the streets?

Is it close to a 25% cut in resources from central government?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:12 pm

Discussion on this subject on LBC now.

And it has the bonus of not being presented by the far left communist with starf, James Obrian!

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:12 pm

I'm in North London, not too far from Tottenham and some of the other areas where there have been shootings recently. Policing is much less visible than central London, I probably see a foot patrol once every two or three weeks. There have also been huge cuts to community services, youth centres and the like leaving more kids with little to divert them.

There's a lot of violence around gangs and drugs. Around me there are two large Turkish drug gangs competing for the heroin trade which is where a lot of the violence comes from. They were cracked down on 10-15 years ago when a lot of resources were allocated to deal with the trouble (prompted by this https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/nov ... l.ukcrime1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) but it gradually seems to be escalating again.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:14 pm

I keep meaning to turn the radio over to LBC, but for a change talksport haven't mentioned boxing once, or got a boxer on to talk shite for ten minutes and they keep talking about us as well.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:23 pm

The cutbacks in policing is clearly visible on the streets and like with the NHS it is unacceptable.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:27 pm

Thats why I hope this Brexit dividend really exists and its going to be used like it was promised for, or there are going to be a lot of very angry people.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:29 pm

What's going on?

Lack of policing, lack of pride in ones community, lack of pride in oneself, numerous other things.

You can pick anything you want, dependant on your angle really.

Cuts in police funding led to a drop in front line officers when really it should've led to a drop in the number of pen pushers who sit around on stupid wages and comfortable pensions.
Also it's easier to throw a complaint in about poor treatment by a police office so the officers may be hesitant about how they handle some people.

Then you look at incidents when various bell ends get killed by the police and their families try to claim what a nice person said gangsta was

Then it's a rise of immigration, which brings along it's own issues, namely criminals coming over who're more violent than then ones we've already got.

Someone mentioned the Krays, tongue in cheek, but there's no way the Krays would be able to deal with some of these Eastern Europeans who're vicious.

Would arming our police solve it?
Nope, look at the Yanks who've had armed police forever but are unable or unwilling to deal with their own issues.

All the police will do is try to contain incidents to certain areas, that isn't a new trick either.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:34 pm

You "dont know " if murdering a 17 year old girl is a hate crime ??

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:34 pm

Police cutbacks, especially in community policing - what they used to call 'bobby's on the beat'.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:40 pm

Lack of role models in the black community is often wheeled out as an excuse however some of out best athletes, footballers, surgeons etc etc are from the black community so I don't buy that. There is a breakdown of respect for society, gangs are allowed to roam the streets and if you don't join them you are in serious trouble. Take of the kid gloves tackle gangs by hammering them so hard with prison sentences that mean they wont be coming out whilst still relatively young men, adequately fund the police and if they need more power/resources give it to them.
These gangs are a curse and should be wiped out.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:43 pm

I think that it's naive to not believe that mass migration of people from the places with a less than stellar track record of a decent society wouldn't result with negative consequences.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:11 pm

We'll all take our usual bi-partisan positions on this. Either it's a lack of investment or it's them foreigners.

But the one thing we will all have in common is moving to nicer areas the first chance we get and gladly leave these ghetto areas to go to s**t. At least there's something that unites us. 'White flight' doesn't care a jot for your political views which is a rare treat in this divided country. Whether you're a snowflake, alt-righter, read the Mail or the Guardian, we're all out of there the first chance we get.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:There are virtually no police in my area...yet no shootings or knife murders at all.

And it's cold where i was last night therefore global warming can't be real.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:35 pm

Youve surpassed yourself....

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:39 pm

Whereas you're at your usual lowly level of contribution.