World War 3

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:25 am

Just a happy go lucky thread about the biggest threat in decades and sad possibility of impending doom for all.

Please don't let this happen Mrs May . Not now not as my beloved clarets are on the cusp of being back to where they belong.

Burnley in Europe needs to be a celebration not our children sent to war.

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:27 am

Doesn’t bode well for the World Cup does it ?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:31 am

Russia will just declare they have won it automatically as the others were a no show.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:32 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Russia will just declare they have won it automatically as the others were a no show.

And Harry Kane will have scored the winner.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:44 am

May wants to take military action without consulting parliament. How does this fit within the detailed U.K. strategy around Syria, and the Middle East? When this military action potentially embroils us against Russia, and alongside the US (countries led by unstable hotheads), how can parliament be ignored?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:53 am

AndrewJB wrote:May wants to take military action without consulting parliament. How does this fit within the detailed U.K. strategy around Syria, and the Middle East? When this military action potentially embroils us against Russia, and alongside the US (countries led by unstable hotheads), how can parliament be ignored?

It kind of overrides democracy a wee bit. What the hell is she doing.
Dont worry no expense will be spared in training our young men and women to fight. They have put a budget in place to train all those enlisted on a 2 day classroom based crash course in military training.

This is not only a threat against civilisation but a real possibility of spoiling Burnley FC's european tour.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:57 am

#WorldWar3Declared @MuffinPants @ILuvPikachu @Crocodile69 @WibbleWobble @24InchPythons @LukeIAmYerDad are Tweeting about this

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:03 am

I personally just can't get my head round all of this. Why is it now our war and not Europe/NATO? Why is it us the French and Americans? Have we got the money to enter into all this? Have we got International backing to enter into this? What do we stand to gain/lose? Why did Parliament vote against getting involved a few years back? I accept I am not the brightest spark plug in the engine, but I have shed loads of questions like these, stuff I don't understand or comprehend like who is actually fighting who in Syria? Why are the baddies also the goodies, are the Kurds on the side of good or evil? Why are the Turks bombing the Kurds etc etc and why has it all kicked off around the World over a woman released from hospital in Salisbury and a chap likely to be released from hospital yet on the news last night the atrocities in the Congo don't seem to be worrying the World into action......

"Nurse please bring my medication and two more blasted head ache tablets!"

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:05 am

Boris Johnson has a profound admiration for Winston Churchill and has even tried to copy the way that he speaks.

Perhaps, after today's cabinet meeting, Boris will seize his big moment and give a Churchillian speech preparing the country for conflict.

Theresa May wants Britain to be viewed as a big global player after Brexit and so will not want Macron and Trump to go ahead with military action with Britain standing on the sidelines.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:06 am

Could we not send Corbyn over to talk to them, he is quite well in with the terrorist element and could help bring peace to the world

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:11 am

Nobody wins a nuclear war.Whats the point of being top dog when theres no one left alive.
We need to keep well out of Syria and leave the posturing to Trump and Putin.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:11 am

The problem with the international law point of this is that Russia will veto any military action against Assad, or anything at all that doesn't mean they control the information and the results.

If it is impossible to get a UN mandate to stop chemical weapon attacks in Syria, then you have two choices.

Allow the normalisation of chemical weapons use in war (which I don't think even blue lab is in favour of (unless its against Israel)

Or act outside the mandate of the UN.

Its a horrible situation to be in either way, but there is no argument to be had at all that you cannot allow the indiscriminate use of chemical weapons.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:20 am

Posts 2 3 and 4 have been made into a joke on my whatsapp combined

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:57 am

As long as I'm on the Turf watching a game I'm ok about being vaporised...I ok with it!

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:00 am

You can't play with international peace keeping. You are either all in, or all out. IF we were to ignore people being murdered with chemical weapons, just because it's not our war, we might as well bring everybody home, build a big wall, and wait for Russia to invade France.
Putin is a bully, a VERY dangerous type, because he has little man's syndrome, and everything that doesn't go his way is is seen as a slight on mother Russia.
Like all bullies he can only get away with it if people ignore what he is doing. I hate bullies with a passion, so I'm all for calling his bluff and telling him where to go. IF he wants to push the button, and wipe out the motherland so be it, BUT HE isn't going to do that because despite his issues he isn't an idiot.

Trump on the other hand...

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am

Are we saying that as long as you are blowing civilians to pieces with TNT, that's OK. But not if you are gassing them to death?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:19 am

I think there is a crucial difference

chemical weapons have the ability to kill thousands (as we have seen in Iraq in the 80s, and Syria today) and are completely indiscriminate.

Sadly, you are never going to stop people blowing each other up with TNT, but you can stop them doing it with chemical weapons.

The real danger (as I've already said) is if you normalize the use of chemical weapons in war.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:33 am

I've supported some military action in the past. I do not support this as it cannot end well. There has to be a diplomatic solution and if not this should not be spearheaded by the US with the UK in support. I'm really becoming quite disillusioned with Theresa May.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:35 am

I agree that keeping chemical weapons beyond the pale is important, however I don’t see that escalating a situation is the way to go. Yes we have to stand up to bullies, but do that intelligently, rather than reacting (or one might argue - dancing to Putin’s tune). We have better things to hit them with than missiles.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:35 am

I think bombing will do no good whatsoever, so I'm against it as well.

Very heavy sanctions against Russia and the Russian oligarchs is the only way to do this I feel.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:41 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think bombing will do no good whatsoever, so I'm against it as well.

Very heavy sanctions against Russia and the Russian oligarchs is the only way to do this I feel.

I’m hoping all this bellicose talk is a sleight of hand, leading to such actions. I hope.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:42 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I’m hoping all this bellicose talk is a sleight of hand, leading to such actions. I hope.

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:43 am

It's a complete mess. We bomb Assad and we help ISIS or similar groups. We also risk all out war in the Middle East and possible global conflict.

Look what happened to Libya after Cameron's war. We helped to overthrow Gaddafi, who at the time was cuddling up to the West, and what we have now is a basket case of a country full of ISIS groups and their like. I don't think I need to mention what happened to Iraq after Blair's war.

Also, it's about time the UK started to sort out its own problems instead of trying to police the whole world. Funny how we never have a pot to pee in when it comes to sorting problems out here in the UK, but we suddenly have a whole heap of cash when it comes to Prime Minster's and their wars.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am

Blackrod wrote:I've supported some military action in the past. I do not support this as it cannot end well. There has to be a diplomatic solution and if not this should not be spearheaded by the US with the UK in support. I'm really becoming quite disillusioned with Theresa May.

I do understand what you are saying, but bullies don't understand or react, to diplomacy. They understand only one thing. As long as he thinks we are going to stand there shouting who's a naughty boy at him, he isn't going to give an inch.
I don't believe it's necessary to throw missiles at him, but he has to believe that we are willing to if needed.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am

TractorFace wrote:It's a complete mess. We bomb Assad and we help ISIS or similar groups. We also risk all out war in the Middle East and possible global conflict.

Look what happened to Libya after Cameron's war. We helped to overthrow Gaddafi, who at the time was cuddling up to the West, and what we have now is a basket case of a country full of ISIS groups and their like. I don't think I need to mention what happened to Iraq after Blair's war.

Also, it's about time the UK started to sort out its own problems instead of trying to police the whole world. Funny how we never have a pot to pee in when it comes to sorting problems out here in the UK, but we suddenly have a whole heap of cash when it comes to Prime Minster's and their wars.

Great post mate, wars we find money potholes we haven't a pot to **** in

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:58 am

If Russia wasn't getting such a foothold in the region, I doubt the West would be interested. Atrocities happen all the time, all over the world. I'm not one for conspiracies, because I don't even think this is. It's two 'super powers' facing off over military strength and influence.

You have to hope Russia won't call anyone's bluff. Lancaster probably knows more, but I imagine the US has overwhelming military advantage in any conflict of that scale, but that's of little consolation for what will be left of our glowing and smouldering little island.

To be honest I don't worry as much as I should, I don't know why that is. One thing's for sure, it'll all be very briefly filmed on smartphones in a desperate attempt to upload a clip of our immolation to social media before the vast electro-magnetic shockwaves remove all satellite communication. Maybe that's why I'm not worrying, perhaps civilisation has run its course.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:05 am

We have money for wars because we see ourselves as internationalists. We see ourselves as liberals. We see ourselves as protectors of the innocent.

If you are advocating that we turn our backs on the wilful murder of innocents women and children by their own government using weapons which for 100 years have been banned by the civilised world then you are advocating a course of action morally wrong.

To ignore this, to retreat into our shells and to become an inward looking nation, would be to abdicate our global role and duty as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. It would be a sign that nation’s can do as they wish with no fear of being opposed. It would also show that a post-Brexit Britain has no interest in the rest of the world and this will kill us economically and politically.

I don’t want that future....

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:18 am

As above, war is evil, but sometimes a necessary evil. To retreat into some magic shell is to forego our responsibilities, and wouldn't protect us in the long run.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:19 am

I want a future.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:21 am

I’m not sure how many more of these fall outs the World can survive.

They usually play out something like this- The Yanks throw a few missiles about and say they’ve HIT operational military and strategic targets, And whoever they’ve fired them at says No you didn’t you MISSED and everyone calms down for about 6 months.

But eventually one of these conflicts has to escalate I just hope again it isn’t this one..,

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:33 am

vinrogue wrote:I personally just can't get my head round all of this. Why is it now our war and not Europe/NATO? Why is it us the French and Americans? Have we got the money to enter into all this? Have we got International backing to enter into this? What do we stand to gain/lose? Why did Parliament vote against getting involved a few years back? I accept I am not the brightest spark plug in the engine, but I have shed loads of questions like these, stuff I don't understand or comprehend like who is actually fighting who in Syria? Why are the baddies also the goodies, are the Kurds on the side of good or evil? Why are the Turks bombing the Kurds etc etc and why has it all kicked off around the World over a woman released from hospital in Salisbury and a chap likely to be released from hospital yet on the news last night the atrocities in the Congo don't seem to be worrying the World into action......

"Nurse please bring my medication and two more blasted head ache tablets!"

I suppose I could just say The Balfour Declaration or you could read A line In The Sand by James Barr that might cure your headache.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:46 pm

Didn’t DC go to parliament over the previous Syria “action”? And got voted down . Syria really really is nothing whatsoever to do with us,zero zilch nada diddly squat feck all. A Syrian regime backed by Russia fighting Isis really is nobody else’s war .If the boys wanna fight leave em to it but no need for involvement .

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:58 pm

We also shouldn`t believe all that we are fed by the media and politicians. Remember the 1st gulf war? Stories of babies being taken out of incubators by Iraqi soldiers and left to die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfVs3WaE9Y

It was all lies to enable the US to enter the war. She wasn`t who she claimed to be. She was not in Kuwait on vacation, as claimed. She was a Kuwaiti diplomat's daughter, and her father is sitting close to her. Hill and Knowlton, who made the film, are a global marketing and PR firm, based in New York, specializing in advertising and marketing propaganda. She was probably scared to death of being taken home and beaten severely if she didn't get it right, which aided her convincing performance.
We need to take what were hear not as gospel because we know the hawks always need an excuse for a punch-up!

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:00 pm

We clearly can't just condone the use of chemical weapons but what I really don't understand is why we always move straight for the bombs as a response. Surely it isn't beyond the wit of powerful Western governments to apply economic or political sanctions or to take some other measures. Assad didn't care last time we hit a few air bases, he won't care this time either. These bombing campaigns seem to me to be all about being seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something that might make a difference.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:09 pm

All the gesturing, positioning and rhetoric has been seen by most if not all of us before - on the school playground

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:16 pm

Israel is mowing down unarmed protesters in Palestine. Saudi Arabia is bombing & starving the people of Yemen.
Republicrats keep funding the Israeli & Saudi militaries.
But an alleged gas attack in Syria & Republicrats suddenly want to intervene to save Arab lives?

I despair

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:21 pm

BurnleyPaul wrote:We have money for wars because we see ourselves as internationalists. We see ourselves as liberals. We see ourselves as protectors of the innocent.

If you are advocating that we turn our backs on the wilful murder of innocents women and children by their own government using weapons which for 100 years have been banned by the civilised world then you are advocating a course of action morally wrong.

To ignore this, to retreat into our shells and to become an inward looking nation, would be to abdicate our global role and duty as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. It would be a sign that nation’s can do as they wish with no fear of being opposed. It would also show that a post-Brexit Britain has no interest in the rest of the world and this will kill us economically and politically.

I don’t want that future....

All very well but if the worst were to happen a whole lot more innocents would die and not just in one region of the world. What value your moral stance then? Nothing, and I mean nothing, is worth the potential end of civilisation as we know it. The death of millions, or even billions, is not worth the cost. Moral posturing about not letting bullies get away with it or pride driven indignation are not worth potentially ending this fragile thing we call life on this planet.
All this sabre rattling is nonsense. You can all go on about 'having to do something' and 'not standing by' but when you are watching your loved ones die horribly from radiation sickness (that's if they're not vaporised in the first place) will you still be saying 'Ah well, it was worth it, at least we didn't just stand by and do nothing'?

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:34 pm

houseboy wrote:All very well but if the worst were to happen a whole lot more innocents would die and not just in one region of the world. What value your moral stance then? Nothing, and I mean nothing, is worth the potential end of civilisation as we know it. The death of millions, or even billions, is not worth the cost. Moral posturing about not letting bullies get away with it or pride driven indignation are not worth potentially ending this fragile thing we call life on this planet.
All this sabre rattling is nonsense. You can all go on about 'having to do something' and 'not standing by' but when you are watching your loved ones die horribly from radiation sickness (that's if they're not vaporised in the first place) will you still be saying 'Ah well, it was worth it, at least we didn't just stand by and do nothing'?

All well and good but you cannot let tyrants get away with breaking international law because what you describe initially will happen globally anyway if they continue to go on unchallenged. Nobody wants a War I would think that's pretty obvious and everything should be done that can avoid that scenario but sometimes avenues become exhausted when dealing with these people.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:37 pm

As Sting once sang,

"I hope the Russians love their children too"

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:43 pm

World War 3 has been going on since 1945, only we've all been put to sleep so we don't know it's going on and by our own country.

Every world museum, every art institution, every major gallery, every TV station, every radio station, every phone and every computer is in their hands, via the weaponry of political correctness. The phrase itself is a joke and so is 'dumb down' and yet all suckered in for Asian rule via subtle perfidy, The Beatles and the Stones, the counterculture revolution was all for Asian rule and certainly no free love in the Indian home villages of the 'gurus.'

Zen Buddhism another and Alan Watts makes no mention of the history of Zen in relation to the rise and rise of the Nippon Empire.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:57 pm

I hope those wanting us to bomb Syria are happy to take in the refugees it would create

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:59 pm

On the other coin, we have people on twitter who want us to intervene in Gaza who don't want us to intervene in Syria.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:On the other coin, we have people on twitter who want us to intervene in Gaza who don't want us to intervene in Syria.

yeah, "God" forbid that we upset a middle eastern ally...

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:19 pm

Do you think that is the point being made Rick?

Or maybe its more general point that people are very keen on us doing stuff when it suits what they want to see against Israel, but absolutely dead against over a much, much worse criteria when it involves anybody else.

Not that trivialises the horrible things happening in Gaza, but just trying to get my head around what makes those sort of people tick.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 pm

I wasn't sure of your point to be honest mate, but you're right not to trivialise the things happening in Gaza, Syria or the Yemen for that matter.

I personally find it abhorrent that our government will take a stand against one tyrant in the middle east when it suits, but not another because it may upset "allies" there. Either it is right to stop another country carrying out atrocities on people or it isn't - our government does appear to pick and choose don't you think?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:33 pm

Not arguing with you on that one, there are certainly a lot not right with any countries foreign policy as it invariably ends up supporting people who you really shouldn't be supporting.

But again, there is always a gulf between ethics and realism in stuff like this, and there always will be.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:40 pm

Inchy wrote:I hope those wanting us to bomb Syria are happy to take in the refugees it would create

Always happy to help genuine refugees where we can, provided a proper process is in place to determine things like age, eligibility etc.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:47 pm

This worth a read btw

https://rusi.org/commentary/strike-opti ... d-uk-syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:48 pm

So is it ok to kill innocent people with bombs but not ok to kill them with chemical weapons? Will it be ok to drop a nuclear bomb but not a nerve agent? Killing is killing are we not in danger of selecting which we don’t like the most, maybe beheading, raping and killing is ok but not a chemical agent. To me it all is messed up.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:53 pm

Gaza and California, what's the difference? The people.