Jay Rods hearing

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:26 pm

Anyone heard any news about the lad? i sincerely hope he is cleared of charges made against him, hes certainly no racist, good luck to him.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:29 pm

They had the hearing yesterday, couldn't come to a decision, still deliberating, apparently.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:33 pm

Thanks Electro.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:37 pm

Hes getting a ban

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:08 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:They had the hearing yesterday, couldn't come to a decision, still deliberating, apparently.

Surely if it aint clear cut it has to be thrown out. They can either prove it definitively or they cant

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:21 pm

Justice prevails..JRod cleared..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... character/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:23 pm

Suspected would be the case. Bong, if guilty (although won't be easy to be proven) should be penalised with the punishment Jay would have received.

MiltonKeynesClaret93 · Post by **MiltonKeynesClaret93** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:24 pm

''A charge that West Brom forward Jay Rodriguez racially abused Brighton defender Gaetan Bong has been found "not proven" by the Football Association.''

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Who cares what happens to a player for another club.

I thought this was a Burnley forum?

Turns out this fella was a United fan as a kid and gets some kind of cult status from some of our fans

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:33 pm

Top Claret wrote:Who cares what happens to a player for another club.

Me, for a start. Why? Because I abhore people who make false claims of racism against innocent people, regardless of their profession.

It's called taking an interest.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:34 pm

Good news for the lad. Pleased for him.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:36 pm

Wow, might be the first time ever an FA charge hasn't held up.

edison · Post by **edison** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:36 pm

full pdf at this link

http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/apr/13/j ... m=referral" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claret10 · Post by **claret10** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:36 pm

Bit of meh the way i read it. Great he has not been found guilty or banned but the wording of "not proven" is hardly name or reputation clearing is it

edison · Post by **edison** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:39 pm

claret10 wrote:Bit of meh the way i read it. Great he has not been found guilty or banned but the wording of "not proven" is hardly name or reputation clearing is it

Do they use the terms guilty and not guilty in FA hearings, as I was wondering the same. The document says, however, the burden of proof lay with the FA - they had to prove it, and they couldn't.

edison · Post by **edison** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Lips readers: "We both unanimously agreed from the clips given to us both agreed overall, that M3/JR did not say
anything racist towards M1/GB.”

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:44 pm

I wouldn’t be letting it drop if I was Jay.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:44 pm

Presumably by declaring it ‘not proven’ rather than ‘not guilty’ then it restricts Jay’s ability to claim Bong lied.

edison · Post by **edison** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:47 pm

kaptin1 wrote:Presumably by declaring it ‘not proven’ rather than ‘not guilty’ then it restricts Jay’s ability to claim Bong lied.

Perhaps Bong genuinely believes he heard what he heard?

bob-the-scutter · Post by **bob-the-scutter** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:14 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I wouldn’t be letting it drop if I was Jay.

Me neither, lying smelly ba$tard!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:17 pm

claret10 wrote:Bit of meh the way i read it. Great he has not been found guilty or banned but the wording of "not proven" is hardly name or reputation clearing is it

That is standard for the FA - not proven means not guilty.

Really pleased for him, to have that hanging over you for as long as it was is downright ridiculous.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:19 pm

If you read the full written reasons http://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-n ... ashx?la=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; there's no suggestion that Bong lied (it is considered whether the charge was genuine). It seems most likely that he misheard him and there wasn't really any other option to go forward with the charge after that.

Also reading the case it seems that not proven rather than innocent is the correct verdict because there was also nothing to disprove that he said it. The lip readers couldn't see the part where the alleged abuse happened as Jay had his hand over his mouth.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:35 pm

I've never believed that what was alleged to have been said (" you're black, you stink") is an expression that anybody would use. You smelly B**** **** would be a much more believable insult (not that I think JR said anything racist at all but the alleged expression just doesn't ring true for a natural English speaker).

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:39 pm

Rumours circulating that Harry Kane is going to claim responsibility for what may have been said.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:42 pm

aggi wrote:....because there was also nothing to disprove that he said it.

Surely there doesnt need to be.
The onus is on the accuser and the members of the panel to prove it.

There evidently wasnt any proof, no matter where his hand was, therefore
not proven, which translates to not guilty.

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:56 pm

In Scottish law they have three outcomes. Not guilty, not proven and guilty.

The FA disciplinary hearings take place according to their own internal rules, rather than English law. Maybe they've used the Scottish system as their inspiration?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:13 pm

Sausage wrote:Me, for a start. Why? Because I abhore people who make false claims of racism against innocent people, regardless of their profession.

It's called taking an interest.

Did Bong make a false claim or did he mis-hear what Jay-Rod said?

Wilsdenclaret · Post by **Wilsdenclaret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:19 pm

suspect Mr Bong in for a "challenging" afternoon on his upcoming visit to The Turf

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:26 pm

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:27 pm

Wilsdenclaret wrote:suspect Mr Bong in for a "challenging" afternoon on his upcoming visit to The Turf

Hope not, because some of the words used by a number our supporters and a few on here would certainly cross the racist line.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:50 pm

Let's kick halitosisism out of football

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:47 pm

Good news. ‘Not proven’ decision.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:43 pm

Jay Rods hearing is excellent, so is his sense of smell it seems.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 pm

Great news for football.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Top Claret wrote:Who cares what happens to a player for another club.

I thought this was a Burnley forum?

Turns out this fella was a United fan as a kid and gets some kind of cult status from some of our fans

Has to be one of these comments every time an ex servant of the club is mentioned. It’s a race for the pillocks of the board.

Everytime a player from another club is mentioned it would be worth suggesting the thread has no relevance as they don’t play for Burnley.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Spijed wrote:Did Bong make a false claim or did he mis-hear what Jay-Rod said?

Bulls@it Bong

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:12 pm

found something that Jay might be interested in for his hearing, my Nan loved hers

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:17 pm

Bong not letting it drop.
Apparently he has tweeted tonignt to say he is dissappointed with the decision.
He also said that Jay apologised and that was step in right direction implying that Jay had apologised for saying something racist,

Jay''s people have put out a statement in response to the tweet to say Jay apologised for the gesture ( bad breath) not re the racist remark nothing to apologise for ,as he said nothing racist

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:43 am

At least Jay doesn't have the threat of anything against him.

However, this has dragged his name through the mud without a shred of credible evidence against him.

Weaselly stuff from the FA. And as for the blind assertion that the complaint was made in "good faith" there's absolutely no credible evidence of this either, but it hasn't stopped the FA from stating it as some kind of fact. Their position is as inconsistent as Bong's evidence.

The whole thing stinks.

Worse than Bong's smelly breath.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:54 am

Rowls wrote:without a shred of credible evidence against him.
.

Precisely. Welcome to the new McCarthyism.
He probably doesnt realise how close he came to having his life wrecked.

"No, no, said the Queen. (Alice in Wonderland) "Sentence first, verdict after."

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:20 am

excellent news and a great outcome.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:57 am

Bong tweeted 'Mr Rodriguez has apologised' after saying how disappointed he is at the outcome.

The apology was for the gesture but the inference was it was for the 'comment'.

Jay's team now put out a tweet stating the facts.

Other fans getting involved wanting Bong charged for effectively 'lying'.

What is not to understand about 'Not Proven' rather than 'Not Guilty'.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:39 pm

Won't stop kick it out using it as a push for extra funding

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:Has to be one of these comments every time an ex servant of the club is mentioned. It’s a race for the pillocks of the board.

Everytime a player from another club is mentioned it would be worth suggesting the thread has no relevance as they don’t play for Burnley.

You on the pop?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:47 pm

Report in today's Times:

Jay Rodriguez cleared of racially abusing Gaëtan Bong

Jay Rodriguez has avoided punishment after a charge of him racially abusing Brighton & Hove Albion’s Gaëtan Bong was not proven. An independent commission said that on the balance of probabilities it was not satisfied that the West Bromwich Albion striker said the offending comments that were alleged.

In his evidence to the FA, Bong said he was 100 per cent certain that Rodriguez said to him: “You’re black and you stink” during a game at The Hawthorns in January. Rodriguez was charged with using “abusive and/or insulting words which included a reference to ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race” and faced a minimum five-match ban if he was found guilty.

Rodriguez asked for a personal hearing, which took place at Wembley this week, where he protested his innocence and maintained that he said to Bong that his “breath f***ing stinks”. During his hearing, Rodriguez provided character evidence in the form of statements and letters from 11 people, including Mauricio Pochettino, the Tottenham Hotspur manager, Eddie Howe, the Bournemouth manager, Adam Lallana, the Liverpool midfielder, Shane Long, the striker, and Maya Yoshida, the defender, both of Southampton.

The FA argued that the striker was not racist but that he uttered the words that Bong had alleged out of a sense of frustration or in a momentary loss of temper. The governing body and Rodriguez each employed a lip reader but they faced limitations with the clips and could not help on the core issue.

The commission said that it was completely satisfied that the complaint was made in good faith but there was not enough evidence to prove that Rodriguez was guilty.

“Ultimately, after much deliberation we were left in the position where the case [was] distilled to the evidence of each player,” the commission said in its report. “We could not say that any of the other evidence or competing arguments lead us to prefer one over the other.

“When the burden and standard of proof is applied, we could not properly say we were satisfied that the player probably spoke the offending words.
“Rightly, no one suggested this was a malicious complaint nor that Bong was lying. Ultimately, we did not reach the position where we were satisfied the player [Rodriguez] probably spoke offending words.”

The incident was reported to Martin Atkinson, the referee, who wrote an extraordinary incident report and made a witness statement to the FA. In his evidence Rodriguez said that Bong caught him on his throat with his elbow and he swore at the Cameroon defender.

“Bong moved aggressively towards me, and I asked, ‘What the f*** are you going to do’ as he began shouting in my face in what I believe to be French,” Rodriguez said. “I said to him, ‘Breath ******* stinks’ and made a waving gesture whilst holding my nose with my thumb and index finger. In retrospect, I realise that was childish and inappropriate, but I just wanted to close down the encounter. I had seen the gesture before. I remember Thierry Henry doing it. And there was an incident between Diego Costa and Ryan Shawcross last season. That doesn’t make the gesture the right thing to do but it was in no way racially motivated.”

Richard Garlick, the West Brom director of football administration who attended the hearing, welcomed the decision. “Everyone at the club is delighted for Jay because this has been a trying period for him,” he said.