Windrush Scandal

[Pstotto]

dsr, who was first out of Africa and who was last? My ancestors got out of their pronto and found a spot as far away from nasty insects and Earthquakes and everyone else and found a nice benign island called England.

Pythagoras squared the circle and drew water from the well with the TT symbol.

[AndrewJB]

Those Benin Bronzes are fine pieces of work. Not sure why you’d want to denigrate them. From my time in Canada I’ve come across this before - the suggestion that native peoples in Canada were somehow inferior to Europeans, but history shows that not to be the case. The Europeans showed up in Canada with the wheel, and promptly ditched it in favour of the native form of transport - the canoe. Look at Royal Navy Arctic exploration, and what a failure it was when they didn’t “go native” and use dog sleds. You can look down on other cultures if you like, but that only makes you look foolish.

[Pstotto]

Not really, in fact muppet stuff when put in comparison... However they are now being presented as if on the same high plateau as the greats, as on BBC 2 last week.

There are some interesting spears in the local museum, but they are not the apotheosis of mankind's manufacture. One could say that they did what they could with what resources they had and lots of cultures have made exquisite things from grass and twigs that chime with cosmology, but the Benin bronzes are crude compared with a Bellini marble statue, as is a mud hut next to the Colosseum.

Africa has all the natural resources and more, compared to Western Europe. The Ancient Egyptians aside, there's not much in the way of development or invention apart from them.

Scott failed with wheels in the Antarctic but now most of the Eskimos have motorized sleds, skidoos or whatever they are called. Nobody has yet windsurf-skied to the poles, so there's one windrush still up for grabs for the blacks to do something original, rather than getting off on that prat Montell Jordan and Friday night in the Hood and their self-created 'urban jungle' violent culture.

The irony is that because that kind of ethos is now coming to the fore in English media as another way to batter everyone politically (also the bigging up of West ham and Eastenders,) everyone is trying to toughen up to the challenge with women now boxing and wearing tattoos whilst the blacks are suiting up, in some sort of perverse role reversal, as demanded by Big Gov. (albeit a massive simplification)

The Obamas becoming ex-pats in Kenya, might buck the trend.

Don't forget that the Renaissance painters used bits of cloth and mud and ground-up rock and eggs and bits of twigs and animal hair to make their works of art.

[Sidney1st]

I remember seeing a programme on PBS over here about some scribblings found in Timbuktu. A black historian was trying to present them as one of the greatest advancements in human civilization, when, in reality, it was just some camel dealer trying to keep track of his inventory. The shortest book ever written might be "Great Advancements in Human Civilization by Black Achievement".

The greatest advancement by black people is the human race.

[If it be your will]

.

[RingoMcCartney]

Are you admitting to failing to even slightly contribute to a thread Ringo?

At least you're becoming self aware.

Can I point something out Walton.

You'd made 2 posts on this thread.

Your first was to simply say"I agree with dsr"

Your second was to point out to say I don't contribute to threads!



Full length mirror required for Walton!

[Dom]

Some posts on this thread are pretty disgusting.
And unsurprisingly it's from people who were already on my block list.

The govt. need to sort out this mess and provide assurances that people under threat of deportation won't be deported until the govt. have proven that they have no right to be here. Another shameful chapter in this tory government.

[Chobulous]

Some posts on this thread are pretty disgusting.
And unsurprisingly it's from people who were already on my block list.

The govt. need to sort out this mess and provide assurances that people under threat of deportation won't be deported until the govt. have proven that they have no right to be here. Another shameful chapter in this tory government.

They're on your blocklist, but you know their "contributions" are disgusting. Someone's been peeping. Admit it, it's one of your dirty little pleasures, a surreptitious paraphilia.

[UpTheBeehole]

Blocked posts are only blocked when you're logged in.

[Chobulous]

Blocked posts are only blocked when you're logged in.

A bit pointless having a blocklist then.

[Sidney1st]

A bit pointless having a blocklist then.

It's like that for any forum you browse.
I just log in prior to viewing, so I don't have to wade through certain peoples posts.

[Dom]

They're on your blocklist, but you know their "contributions" are disgusting. Someone's been peeping. Admit it, it's one of your dirty little pleasures, a surreptitious paraphilia.

Can't avoid it when other users are quoting them. It doesn't block the quote.

[Pstotto]

I don't think numbers come from the blacks, it comes from the Arabs. I think binary code comes from England. Not sure who invented logarithms.

[Chobulous]

I don't think numbers come from the blacks, it comes from the Arabs. I think binary code comes from England. Not sure who invented logarithms.

John Napier - Scottish I believe

[Pstotto]

I think there is a genius pool and it's there to dip into and for whoever has the good sense to do it.

[nil_desperandum]

A bit pointless having a blocklist then.

Can you explain how you can have a "blocklist" that blocks your "foes" when you aren't logged in?
It's not possible. It would mean that they were blocked to everyone who visited the site.
It's dead easy. If you want to block people and not read their posts then always log in.
I have it set on my laptop so that it automatically logs me in when I click on the site.

[Erasmus]

The zero originally came from Indian mathematics, but was received in Europe via the Arabs

[If it be your will]

.

[Sidney1st]

So are we saying the advancement of African culture was stopped by European colonisation and the introduction of Christianity?

[ontario claret]

Life may have begun in Africa (and there's no real proof of that), but it certainly didn't progress there. The problem with Africa is that it's all administered on obsolete colonial borders, while life is still conducted on a totally tribal basis. If you belong to the wrong tribe, you're at the whim of the local dictator cum chieftain.

[ontario claret]

All the arrival of Christianity did in Africa, Sydney, was cut down on the sales of huge pots to boil your captives in.

[ontario claret]

Although I've been told that Africans invented String Theory.

[Sidney1st]

Life may have begun in Africa (and there's no real proof of that), but it certainly didn't progress there. The problem with Africa is that it's all administered on obsolete colonial borders, while life is still conducted on a totally tribal basis. If you belong to the wrong tribe, you're at the whim of the local dictator cum chieftain.

They've never said life began in Africa.

Modern man first appeared in Africa, specifically Kenya end of the continent.

As for how it's administered, it's the fault of Europe, but it also suits Europe for Africa to be a constant mess or in a state of flux, due to the vast natural resources it has that is taken cheaply by companies to keep our lifestyles going.
If Africa sorted itself out then we would see a different sort of world, quite possibly a better one.

[UpTheBeehole]

Another joke of a situation for this poor fella

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... in-surgery

It's a scandal, an outrage.

[UpTheBeehole]

All the arrival of Christianity did in Africa, Sydney, was cut down on the sales of huge pots to boil your captives in.

Really??????????

[Pstotto]

That's THEIR race card, IIBYW...

[ontario claret]

Not really, Beehole. It's a turn on a situation a few years ago when a former mayor of Toronto suggested that the reason he never visited Africa was because they would probably boil him in a pot. It's a cliche. (Besides, iron pots hadn't been invented yet when Christianity first arrived in Africa.)

[ontario claret]

The oldest known human fossils may have been found in Africa, but that just means that there was just optimum conditions for preserving human remains. All life forms eventually turn to dust (even you and me).

[AndrewJB]

PMQs-

Jeremy Corbyn -" can the prime minister confirm that the decision to destroy the landing cards was taken when she was home Secretary?"

May - " no it was taken in 2009 under a Labour government!"

The Guardian will go into melt down!

It didn't take long for May's deflection to come unstuck. A senior civil servant at the time described her legislation to introduce a hostile environment as "nazi-like"

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestne ... ofile=1228" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sad that Labour abstained on the vote in 2014 - though rebels who voted against it included Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Diane Abbott, and Dennis Skinner.

[IanMcL]

May now trying to push blame on to Amber Rudd. 'Leaked communications'

Nasty business politics. Literally dog eats dog in this case!

[AndrewJB]

Theresa May's thoughts on ministerial responsibility appear to have evolved over time:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d0715defe8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But of course it's Amber Rudd's fault.

[Sidney1st]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 15516.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

National Archives have records available which should hopefully end this mess.

I did see one article today about one of them who applied for a passport in 2010, to be rejected due to his status and he did nothing about it then...

[claretandy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 15516.html

National Archives have records available which should hopefully end this mess.

I did see one article today about one of them who applied for a passport in 2010, to be rejected due to his status and he did nothing about it then...

Have you not heard the latest lefty narrative, landing cards don't matter now that it wasn't the nasty tories who destroyed them. This has been going on for years, caller after caller on LBC said that this has been going on over 10 years ago when Labour were in charge.

[Sidney1st]

Have you not heard the latest lefty narrative, landing cards don't matter now that it wasn't the nasty tories who destroyed them. This has been going on for years, caller after caller on LBC said that this has been going on over 10 years ago when Labour were in charge.

Doesn't suit agendas that's why.
It never does whichever party is in power.

[AndrewJB]

Have you not heard the latest lefty narrative, landing cards don't matter now that it wasn't the nasty tories who destroyed them. This has been going on for years, caller after caller on LBC said that this has been going on over 10 years ago when Labour were in charge.

"Lefty narrative"? Not sure where you're getting your facts, but the landing cards were destroyed in October 2010, while Theresa May was Home Secretary. In 2009 under Labour the decision was made to move to different premises. The key date though is 2014, when the specific rights to remain were removed from the Windrush people who hadn't taken British citizenship. That was under Cameron with May as Home Secretary. I've already said Labour mostly abstained on the vote (apart from Corbyn, Abbott, and McDonnell among seven Labour rebels). If this isn't the case, why would May apologise? It's on record that the government were warned that the effect of their "hostile environment" policy would snare unintended victims, but they ignored this and carried on. Now they're going to shell out in compensation. Anyone mention how they're going to fund that, by the way?

[claretandy]

"Lefty narrative"? Not sure where you're getting your facts, but the landing cards were destroyed in October 2010, while Theresa May was Home Secretary. In 2009 under Labour the decision was made to move to different premises. The key date though is 2014, when the specific rights to remain were removed from the Windrush people who hadn't taken British citizenship. That was under Cameron with May as Home Secretary. I've already said Labour mostly abstained on the vote (apart from Corbyn, Abbott, and McDonnell among seven Labour rebels). If this isn't the case, why would May apologise? It's on record that the government were warned that the effect of their "hostile environment" policy would snare unintended victims, but they ignored this and carried on. Now they're going to shell out in compensation. Anyone mention how they're going to fund that, by the way?

I'm getting my facts from actual windrush people who say this has been going on for more than 10 years, unless you think they are lying ?

[AndrewJB]

On the subject of facts, I thought you were saying Labour destroyed the landing cards (they didn't).

I'm not a Windrush person, so no personal experience from me, but I know that Theresa May legislated away their right to remain, and instituted the "hostile environment" policy toward people coming in to Britain in 2014. Whatever harassment or discrimination people felt before the Tories came to power (which is no less awful), it had a legal basis after May changed the law.

[claretandy]

On the subject of facts, I thought you were saying Labour destroyed the landing cards (they didn't).

I'm not a Windrush person, so no personal experience from me, but I know that Theresa May legislated away their right to remain, and instituted the "hostile environment" policy toward people coming in to Britain in 2014. Whatever harassment or discrimination people felt before the Tories came to power (which is no less awful), it had a legal basis after May changed the law.

The "hostile environment" started under Labour, John Reed started it, Alan Johnson admitted on BBC this week that Labour clamped down hard on illegal immigration.

[nil_desperandum]

The "hostile environment" started under Labour, John Reed started it, Alan Johnson admitted on BBC this week that Labour clamped down hard on illegal immigration.

No one disagrees with clamping down on illegal immigration - do they??
There's a clue in the definition of the term illegal.

[UpTheBeehole]

Margaret O’Brien, 69, moved from Canada to Wolverhampton in 1971, got married, had three children and worked for the local council for more than 25 years variously as a dinner lady, meals on wheels driver, lollipop lady and cleaner.

A spinal injury a few years ago meant she had to give up her job, leading O’Brien to apply for benefits for the first time. In 2015, she was told her disability payments had been suspended because she was an illegal immigrant.

O’Brien received a letter stating: “Home Office records indicate that you do not have permission to be in the UK. You should make arrangements to leave without delay.”

The letter informed her “of our intention to remove you from the UK to your country of nationality if you do not depart voluntarily. No further notice will be given”.

If she decided to stay, the letter warned, “life in the UK will become increasingly difficult”; O’Brien was liable to be arrested, prosecuted and face a possible six-month prison sentence.

Her case is significant because it shows the Home Office’s treatment of longstanding Commonwealth-born UK residents is not restricted to the Windrush generation, but is likely to extend to people from other Commonwealth countries.

The letter arrived a few days after her son’s wedding. “I tried to call the telephone number provided, but it was absolutely impossible to get through. My son was on honeymoon in New York. I didn’t know what to do,” she said. O’Brien sought legal advice, but she was told it would cost £900 for initial work. “I’m a disabled pensioner. I didn’t have that kind of money,” she said.

Not long afterwards, she was issued with a letter headed “notification to a person who is liable to be detained”. Her photo was above the words: “You are a person without leave who has been served with a notice of liability to removal.”

She gathered a large number of documents as evidence that she had lived in the UK before the , and was in the country legally. After more than a year of trying to convince officials, she was allowed to meet a Home Office decision-maker in person. She was ready to show him her documents, but he simply asked if there was anyone in Canada who could house her.

“I don’t know whether they get brownie points for the number of people they can send back to their own country,” O’Brien said. She felt the man was looking at her and thinking: “Is this someone I can take in?”

O’Brien’s account stands out as shocking even among the deluge of revelations about Home Office behaviour. But she said two years of getting by without disability benefit is nothing compared with stories of . “I was humiliated, but there are so many people in situations much worse than mine,” she said.

She found the requirement to report every three months at the Home Office very difficult because of her disability. O’Brien walks with a frame and has to be accompanied by someone when she goes out, because she has a health condition that makes her prone to collapsing unexpectedly.

The 25-mile journey via bus, train and tram to the Home Office reporting centre in Solihull takes about two hours each way. On one occasion, she arrived only to be told the office was closed for a training day; on another, she queued for more than two hours before being asked to come back another day.

The waiting room was like a cattle market, she said, crammed with about 200 people, among them babies – and sometimes adults – crying. People branded overstayers, illegal immigrants or refused asylum seekers had to hand over all sharp objects, pens, pencils and keys, as well as mobile phones, at the door. Chairs were screwed to the floor.

“It was very degrading. I’m a disabled woman. Sometimes, I was in a lot of pain,” O’Brien said. Travelling to the centre cost about £40 each time for herself and her grandson or one of her children. “I thought: fine, I will just explain my situation. You hope miracles will happen and someone will just listen to you,” she said.

Her daughter, who was not allowed in and had to wait outside, once saw a group of people being bundled into a van – presumably to be detained. After that, both of them feared she might be next. The security guards on the door were always kind to her; she thought they felt sorry for her because she was finding it physically difficult to make her way to the office.

“They told me: you shouldn’t be here,” O’Brien said. Inside the building, Home Office staff were less friendly. “To them, it is just a job. Maybe they have to meet numbers, meet a certain number of people a day. You’re just treated as a number,” she said.

O’Brien had first been informed that she had a problem with her paperwork when the council pointed out in about 2008 that her Canadian passport had expired, and asked her for an alternative document.

She had never applied for a British passport and was not planning a holiday, so decided to explain to council staff that she had been in the UK for decades and did not need to prove a right to reside. This was several years before the introduction of the “hostile environment” policy, and staff immediately let the matter drop.

She was puzzled by the Home Office’s decision to target her. “I did feel British. When I came to England, Canada was part of the Commonwealth. It was so simple. I went to the jobcentre, was issued with a national insurance and got a job. I was always in work,” O’Brien said.

By the time she retired, she was juggling three jobs. When she thought she might be deported, she remembered wondering whether she would get a refund of the money she had paid in taxes.

O’Brien’s life savings were eaten up during the period that she was without money, and she had to rely on her children.

Her case worker at the Refugee and Migrant Centre, Daniel Ashwell, helped her find an indefinite leave to remain stamp in her expired Canadian passport that instantly proved she was in the UK legally. She had never noticed it, or realised its significance, and was profoundly grateful for his help.

After the Home Office received this evidence, her right to be in the UK was confirmed and her benefits were paid.

“My treatment by the Home Office was terrible. I felt like dirt,” she said.

Ashwell said: “The case of Ms O’Brien is a stark example of the consequences of the hostile environment experienced by many of our clients. The case demonstrates the way in which immigration policy has encouraged Home Office officials to treat those going through the immigration system with distrust and a lack of human dignity.”

In an emailed statement, the Home Office said: “The new dedicated team helping the Windrush generation will be on hand to assist undocumented long-resident Commonwealth citizens.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ret-obrien

[RingoMcCartney]

No one disagrees with clamping down on illegal immigration - do they??
There's a clue in the definition of the term illegal.

You're not allowed to use the term illegal immigrant now nil desp, didn't you know?

No, the new far left, PC, pseudo Marxist term is an "undocumented person!"

The users of this touchy feely term clearly don't stop and think why the "undocumented person" has been unable to avail himself of his documents. That would put them in the awkward position of having to think. To think that given he is here on unlawful, therefore illegal, grounds. He cannot secure the necessary documentation! But Hey! Who needs to think when you can tiptoe around the issue on the politically correct eggshells and sound caring and inclusive!

Worked out just fine in Telford, Rochdale, Oxford, Newcastle and Rotherham didn't it!

[nil_desperandum]

You're not allowed to use the term illegal immigrant now nil desp, didn't you know?

Utter nonsense, and even you - masquerading as some kind of agent - provocateur / uber devil's advocate - must know that.
For all sorts of reasons people of all political leanings are concerned about illegal immigration.
It's how we address it that people disagree with, and no reasonable person would argue that deporting hardworking people who have been here legally for 5 decades or more should be victimised in order to track down those who are here illegally.

[RingoMcCartney]

Utter nonsense, and even you - masquerading as some kind of agent - provocateur / uber devil's advocate - must know that.
For all sorts of reasons people of all political leanings are concerned about illegal immigration.
It's how we address it that people disagree with, and no reasonable person would argue that deporting hardworking people who have been here legally for 5 decades or more should be victimised in order to track down those who are here illegally.

It's not "utter nonsense"

It's a term used by the far left, LBC presenter and self appointed spokesman (sorry spokes non gender specific being) for the PC metropolitan elite, James "socialist with starff" Obrain.

[nil_desperandum]

It's not "utter nonsense"

So who - other than you, has claimed that we can't use the term illegal immigrant when it applies to people who are illegally in the country?

[evensteadiereddie]

Christ, Ringo, are you in love with this LBC guy - you mention him in virtually every political argument. I know you're trying to be clever by suggesting he is typical of anyone to the Left of you but it really doesn't work. A term used by one broadcaster is not particularly relevant.

[RingoMcCartney]

So who - other than you, has claimed that we can't use the term illegal immigrant when it applies to people who are illegally in the country?

James Obrain and at least one of his approving left wing listeners who called into LBC yesterday. I've heard it increasingly on various current affairs tv and radio.

[RingoMcCartney]

Christ, Ringo, are you in love with this LBC guy - you mention him in virtually every political argument. I know you're trying to be clever by suggesting he is typical of anyone to the Left of you but it really doesn't work. A term used by one broadcaster is not particularly relevant.

See the above post Eddie

You googled "London's biggest c*** " Yet? Bet you have!

[evensteadiereddie]

So that's two at least.
Impressive.

[RingoMcCartney]

So that's two at least.
Impressive.

You're easily impressed.......

[nil_desperandum]

James Obrain and at least one of his approving left wing listeners who called into LBC yesterday. I've heard it increasingly on various current affairs tv and radio.

Did they actually say that there are "no illegal immigrants in the UK so we can't use that term anymore""?
Or are you twisting something that they said?