Windrush Scandal
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Have a guess, nil !
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Re: Windrush Scandal
No. To be fair obrain used the term "illegal immigrant" in passing. Then he checked himself by saying something on the lines of. " I shouldn't use that term, I was told that a human cannot be illegal, just undocumented." The caller agreed with him. No it's not me trying to twist their words. I'm sure you could find it somewhere on the LBC website or something to confirm. It was yesterday, he's on between 10 till 1 in the morning.nil_desperandum wrote:Did they actually say that there are "no illegal immigrants in the UK so we can't use that term anymore""?
Or are you twisting something that they said?
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Re: Windrush Scandal
There's a whole world of difference between "illegal" and "undocumented", and tbh, that's really what the Windrush scandal is all about.RingoMcCartney wrote:No. To be fair obrain used the term "illegal immigrant" in passing. Then he checked himself by saying something on the lines of. " I shouldn't use that term, I was told that a human cannot be illegal, just undocumented." The caller agreed with him. No it's not me trying to twist their words. I'm sure you could find it somewhere on the LBC website or something to confirm. It was yesterday, he's on between 10 till 1 in the morning.
Context is everything
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Well you need to call into LBC while Obrain is on and tell him, "There's a whole world of difference between "illegal" and "undocumented",nil_desperandum wrote:There's a whole world of difference between "illegal" and "undocumented", and tbh, that's really what the Windrush scandal is all about.
Context is everything
He doesn't believe there is......
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Re: Windrush Scandal
"He doesn't believe there is....."
So what ?
Does anybody, apart from you, give a monkey's ? Rudd and May are in the shoite big-time and no amount of smokescreening over what some broadcaster meant or didn't mean will change that.
So what ?
Does anybody, apart from you, give a monkey's ? Rudd and May are in the shoite big-time and no amount of smokescreening over what some broadcaster meant or didn't mean will change that.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Calm down Eddie. Did I say the Tories have not got themselves into a pickle? No. Who's smokescreening? I was semi seriously pointing out the futility of pussy footing around with words to sound more politically correct. You clearly give enough of a monkey's to get yourself all revved up , and keep chipping in between myself and nil desperandums relatively calm exchanges, don't you.evensteadiereddie wrote:"He doesn't believe there is....."
So what ?
Does anybody, apart from you, give a monkey's ? Rudd and May are in the shoite big-time and no amount of smokescreening over what some broadcaster meant or didn't mean will change that.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Oh God, Ringo, here we go again.
Sorry, love, but nobody's getting "revved up" nor needs to calm down.
You attempted to make a point, you were challenged, ballsed it up again and continue blathering on about your latest crush/bogey-man.
There's nothing else to say.
Sorry, love, but nobody's getting "revved up" nor needs to calm down.
You attempted to make a point, you were challenged, ballsed it up again and continue blathering on about your latest crush/bogey-man.
There's nothing else to say.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
A windrush caller spoke to O'Brien today and told him that this had been going on for years, almost immediately O'Brien said "talk to me about whats happened recently", several other spoke to Matt Frei and said the same thing, been going on for decades. O'Brien keeps pushing the hostile environment line, what he won't mention is that it was Labour who started it.RingoMcCartney wrote:No. To be fair obrain used the term "illegal immigrant" in passing. Then he checked himself by saying something on the lines of. " I shouldn't use that term, I was told that a human cannot be illegal, just undocumented." The caller agreed with him. No it's not me trying to twist their words. I'm sure you could find it somewhere on the LBC website or something to confirm. It was yesterday, he's on between 10 till 1 in the morning.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Haha. Nobody's getting revved up Eddie! Aye oreight!evensteadiereddie wrote:Oh God, Ringo, here we go again.
Sorry, love, but nobody's getting "revved up" nor needs to calm down.
You attempted to make a point, you were challenged, ballsed it up again and continue blathering on about your latest crush/bogey-man.
There's nothing else to say.
In what way shape or form have I "ballsed it up" Eddie? You really are a dreamer aren't you.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Ok - so just to clear this up.claretandy wrote:A windrush caller spoke to O'Brien today and told him that this had been going on for years, almost immediately O'Brien said "talk to me about whats happened recently", several other spoke to Matt Frei and said the same thing, been going on for decades. O'Brien keeps pushing the hostile environment line, what he won't mention is that it was Labour who started it.
The previous Labour administration decided to crackdown on ILLEGAL immigration, (which is what the majority of the country, inc. you wanted), and then Home Secretary Theresa May's department extended this to include the "undocumented" inhabitants of this country, and began the process of chucking out people who in some cases had lived and worked here legally for 5 decades and more.
I think I've got it now.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Pretty much.nil_desperandum wrote:Ok - so just to clear this up.
The previous Labour administration decided to crackdown on ILLEGAL immigration, (which is what the majority of the country, inc. you wanted), and then Home Secretary Theresa May's department extended this to include the "undocumented" inhabitants of this country, and began the process of chucking out people who in some cases had lived and worked here legally for 5 decades and more.
I think I've got it now.
People are now trying to nail it all on the PM when it was quite possibly someone in an office who made the decision to dispose of some old paperwork.
After 50yrs you'd assume everyone had their act together wouldn't you?
Although one bloke found out in 2010 he had a problem when he wanted a passport and again in 2016, but did nothing about it until it made the news recently and then he decided to tell his story.
Appears there have been ongoing issues but it's probably easier to blame the PM, instead of the actual person who signed off throwing 50yr old documents in the bin.
Re: Windrush Scandal
May was in charge of the department , it’s her fault it’s not that difficult to understandSidney1st wrote:Pretty much.
People are now trying to nail it all on the PM when it was quite possibly someone in an office who made the decision to dispose of some old paperwork.
After 50yrs you'd assume everyone had their act together wouldn't you?
Although one bloke found out in 2010 he had a problem when he wanted a passport and again in 2016, but did nothing about it until it made the news recently and then he decided to tell his story.
Appears there have been ongoing issues but it's probably easier to blame the PM, instead of the actual person who signed off throwing 50yr old documents in the bin.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Depends on the agenda.joey13 wrote:May was in charge of the department , it’s her fault it’s not that difficult to understand
Corbyn is head of a party rife with anti semitism, doesn't mean he is...
I'm sure someone's got a copy of the official document where she ordered the destruction of the documents.
Or suggested it.
Or something...
No?
Does the head of a company oversee every single thing that happens or is there something called delegation involved?
Personally I think the government have ballsed this up quite badly and a blanket amnesty with actual citizenship given out is required to stop this embarrassing spectacle getting worse.
Financial compensation isn't really needed unless it can be proven beyond doubt that it is.
Re: Windrush Scandal
May was in charge of the department when the law was changed though, which was quite a bit more important than disposing of some documents (I've not really followed it closely enough to know who was in charge of that).Sidney1st wrote:Pretty much.
People are now trying to nail it all on the PM when it was quite possibly someone in an office who made the decision to dispose of some old paperwork.
After 50yrs you'd assume everyone had their act together wouldn't you?
Although one bloke found out in 2010 he had a problem when he wanted a passport and again in 2016, but did nothing about it until it made the news recently and then he decided to tell his story.
Appears there have been ongoing issues but it's probably easier to blame the PM, instead of the actual person who signed off throwing 50yr old documents in the bin.
Re: Windrush Scandal
The disposing of the documents is a red herring. Corbyn raised it when he thought it would make a cheap political point, but it turned into a double own goal - firstly because it was partly Labour's fault, and secondly because it took the emphasis off the real issue.
The real issue is that there are a lot of people who are in this country legally, but don't have the 160 documents that the Home Office thinks every Briton should have. And therefore the Home Office, although it knows perfectly well that these people almost certainly have a full legal right to stay, it has decided to be as nasty as it can to them and deport some of them because that means they will have ticked a few boxes that says "we have deported illegal immigrants". It's a two-fold scandal - firstly, that they are incompetent to a ridiculous degree; but secondly and worse, that they have made a conscious decision to treat UK citizens as being undeserving of human rights. They are treating people as if their lives do not matter. This is not what the Home Office ought to be about.
It should have been closed down and its duties redistributed years ago, because it can't handle prisons, it can't handle the police, it can't handle immigration. It can't do any of its main jobs. "Not fit for purpose" is an overused phrase, but in this case it is right. Shut it down, pay off the senior civil servants and put a rocket up the backsides of the junior ones, start all over again.
The real issue is that there are a lot of people who are in this country legally, but don't have the 160 documents that the Home Office thinks every Briton should have. And therefore the Home Office, although it knows perfectly well that these people almost certainly have a full legal right to stay, it has decided to be as nasty as it can to them and deport some of them because that means they will have ticked a few boxes that says "we have deported illegal immigrants". It's a two-fold scandal - firstly, that they are incompetent to a ridiculous degree; but secondly and worse, that they have made a conscious decision to treat UK citizens as being undeserving of human rights. They are treating people as if their lives do not matter. This is not what the Home Office ought to be about.
It should have been closed down and its duties redistributed years ago, because it can't handle prisons, it can't handle the police, it can't handle immigration. It can't do any of its main jobs. "Not fit for purpose" is an overused phrase, but in this case it is right. Shut it down, pay off the senior civil servants and put a rocket up the backsides of the junior ones, start all over again.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Theresa May called for ministerial responsibility when she was in opposition, but avoids it now. I don't think it's right to lay the blame of this on Home Office staff, as this article points out. What May set in place in 2014 enabled the Home Office to do far more than crack down on illegal immigration. Removing the specific right to remain for the Windrush people was her doing, and the leverage it gave the Home Office to send out letters of warning to people can't be explained away as random over zealous Home Office officials, but seems more likely to be as a result of target driven directive from the government - who let's not forget promised to bring net migration down to the tens of thousands at that time.dsr wrote:The disposing of the documents is a red herring. Corbyn raised it when he thought it would make a cheap political point, but it turned into a double own goal - firstly because it was partly Labour's fault, and secondly because it took the emphasis off the real issue.
The real issue is that there are a lot of people who are in this country legally, but don't have the 160 documents that the Home Office thinks every Briton should have. And therefore the Home Office, although it knows perfectly well that these people almost certainly have a full legal right to stay, it has decided to be as nasty as it can to them and deport some of them because that means they will have ticked a few boxes that says "we have deported illegal immigrants". It's a two-fold scandal - firstly, that they are incompetent to a ridiculous degree; but secondly and worse, that they have made a conscious decision to treat UK citizens as being undeserving of human rights. They are treating people as if their lives do not matter. This is not what the Home Office ought to be about.
It should have been closed down and its duties redistributed years ago, because it can't handle prisons, it can't handle the police, it can't handle immigration. It can't do any of its main jobs. "Not fit for purpose" is an overused phrase, but in this case it is right. Shut it down, pay off the senior civil servants and put a rocket up the backsides of the junior ones, start all over again.
Beyond this we should consider how much time and money the government has wasted in taking such a retrograde step as this; harassing people it knew it shouldn't but who it made vulnerable through changing the law. What did the government hope to accomplish with this? It's a complete waste.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
https://twitter.com/SnellArthur/status/ ... 6244205568" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think this sums it all up.
I think this sums it all up.
Re: Windrush Scandal
My link:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... k-serwotka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... k-serwotka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Go on then. Name six of them.Pstotto wrote:I know Spanish people who came here just to give birth so that their children would have a UK passport.
Re: Windrush Scandal
I find it extraordinary that a Minister isn’t willing just to step up to the plate and take responsibility and it seems to me that you don’t have to take a Ministerial job, you don’t have to take the care and the extra pay and so forth.
But when you do there is responsibility that has to be taken with it. And I’m actually sick and tired of government ministers in this ... government who simply blame other people when something goes wrong and are not willing to take responsibility for what is happening under this government and their decisions
Guess who said this?
But when you do there is responsibility that has to be taken with it. And I’m actually sick and tired of government ministers in this ... government who simply blame other people when something goes wrong and are not willing to take responsibility for what is happening under this government and their decisions
Guess who said this?
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Theresa May.
Wonder what will now happen now her lying minister has been caught lying...
Wonder what will now happen now her lying minister has been caught lying...
Re: Windrush Scandal
I'm not going to name them personally because it's a family connection.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
You might be better telling your "family connection" that they are wasting their time as according to the law...Pstotto wrote:I'm not going to name them personally because it's a family connection.
"Children born in the UK to parents who are not British citizens and do not have indefinite leave to remain do not acquire British citizenship by birth. They have the right to be registered as British citizens once at least one of the parents obtains a settled status (or receives indefinite leave to remain). This registration is subject to good character requirement, but is not subject to ministerial discretion.
A child is entitled to register as a British citizen if his father or mother becomes a member of the British armed forces.
A person born in the UK to non-British parents who has spent the first 10 years of his life in the UK and has not been out of the country for more than 90 days in any one year of the first 10 years of his life, is entitled to be registered as a British citizen. Such application for registration can be made at any time and is not limited by a requirement to apply while the applicant is under 18. The requirement of good character applies."
I took that from the following link.
http://www.kadmosimmigration.com/britis ... gistration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Could be they know better though, I suppose.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
You're right. Government departments get like this; unwieldy, ineffective, bureaucratic, tick-boxing and costly.dsr wrote:The disposing of the documents is a red herring. Corbyn raised it when he thought it would make a cheap political point, but it turned into a double own goal - firstly because it was partly Labour's fault, and secondly because it took the emphasis off the real issue.
The real issue is that there are a lot of people who are in this country legally, but don't have the 160 documents that the Home Office thinks every Briton should have. And therefore the Home Office, although it knows perfectly well that these people almost certainly have a full legal right to stay, it has decided to be as nasty as it can to them and deport some of them because that means they will have ticked a few boxes that says "we have deported illegal immigrants". It's a two-fold scandal - firstly, that they are incompetent to a ridiculous degree; but secondly and worse, that they have made a conscious decision to treat UK citizens as being undeserving of human rights. They are treating people as if their lives do not matter. This is not what the Home Office ought to be about.
It should have been closed down and its duties redistributed years ago, because it can't handle prisons, it can't handle the police, it can't handle immigration. It can't do any of its main jobs. "Not fit for purpose" is an overused phrase, but in this case it is right. Shut it down, pay off the senior civil servants and put a rocket up the backsides of the junior ones, start all over again.
Never mind, I'm sure Jeremy would reduce the amount of government we have looking over us. Very much his kind of thing.
Re: Windrush Scandal
Like any organisation, won't it depend on how it's managed? Granted, the Home Office has had a pair of wasteful incompetents in charge over the last few years, but there's no hard and fast rule that a government department is always ineffective. Our health service is about twice as efficient as the private US one, for example.thatdberight wrote:You're right. Government departmenlt get like this; unwieldy, ineffective, bureaucratic, tick-boxing and costly.
Never mind, I'm sure Jeremy would reduce the amount of government we have looking over us. Very much his kind of thing.
How long will Rudd last now? She's said there were no targets, and now it turns out they had them on the walls in offices.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
A promotion?Falcon wrote:Theresa May.
Wonder what will now happen now her lying minister has been caught lying...
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Well Rudd has said that she's not resigning, so Mrs M has a decision to make one way or the other.
Re: Windrush Scandal
And she'll support her as anything else would be suicide as Amber Rudd might be tempted to tell the truth, i.e. none of this is really Amber Rudd's fault, she's inherited the situation from the previous Home Secretary. Anyone remember who that was?Falcon wrote:Well Rudd has said that she's not resigning, so Mrs M has a decision to make one way or the other.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
I have an inkling
Re: Windrush Scandal
They've apologised for this, but it's symptomatic of a wider sadism they've practiced on vulnerable people in the UK. What's the difference between how they've treated the Windrush people to how they've made terminally ill cancer sufferers attend work capability assessments, cut services for young people, and made women who have been raped relive their ordeal in order to claim child tax credits? It's all part of the same thing.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
"You're" not "your" and you end a sentence with a full stop.RingoMcCartney wrote:This may be futile as it appears your unable to read and understand English
You should maybe rethink your dream of becoming an English teacher and content yourself with learning the absolute basics of the language.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Some more facts coming to light http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44131136
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Re: Windrush Scandal
tiger76 wrote:Some more facts coming to light http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44131136
The left: If you start getting hardcore with removals then you'll remove some of the wrong people.
The right: Typical leftie scaremongering.
Windrush happens
The right: This is an outrage!
The left: No sh*t, you dumb f*cks.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
The rest of the population : sort it out.Imploding Turtle wrote:The left: If you start getting hardcore with removals then you'll remove some of the wrong people.
The right: Typical leftie scaremongering.
Windrush happens
The right: This is an outrage!
The left: No sh*t, you dumb f*cks.
Imploding Turtles Head : Hissy Fit required.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
It doesn't look as though anything has materially changed with the government's immigration policy:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At a time of austerity, is this money well spent?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At a time of austerity, is this money well spent?
Re: Windrush Scandal
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ld-go-back" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The scandal continues...
I have both UK and Canadian citizenship. I was born here, moved away as a child, and returned in '98. I wonder whether I might find myself on a list of people to be deported one day?
The scandal continues...
I have both UK and Canadian citizenship. I was born here, moved away as a child, and returned in '98. I wonder whether I might find myself on a list of people to be deported one day?
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Depends. Are you white?AndrewJB wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ld-go-back
The scandal continues...
I have both UK and Canadian citizenship. I was born here, moved away as a child, and returned in '98. I wonder whether I might find myself on a list of people to be deported one day?
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Re: Windrush Scandal
I was reading this article earlier and from what I can see they've moved over here because they aren't being treated that well in the countries the UK relocated them too.AndrewJB wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ld-go-back
The scandal continues...
I have both UK and Canadian citizenship. I was born here, moved away as a child, and returned in '98. I wonder whether I might find myself on a list of people to be deported one day?
Then some are seeking housing assistance and being refused because "they've intentionally made themselves homeless" , which is the standard response from housing associations and they say it to white people all the time.
The part where someone is saying they'll arrange a flight home is shocking and that person/people want sacking.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
AndrewJB wrote:It doesn't look as though anything has materially changed with the government's immigration policy:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At a time of austerity, is this money well spent?
Who's in error here, the home office for enforcing it's rules or the woman for not ensuring she's done what's required at her end?A Home Office spokesman told The Guardian: 'Miss Qu has overstayed her visa since January 2014. Her last removal notice was served in January 2018. Miss Qu had not made an application to the Home Office simply by booking and paying for the appointment. The application is not made until she actually turns up to the appointment and submits the application.
Assuming what's written is correct btw.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
It must be pretty bad, wherever they are, if people are desperate to come here.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
They were being treated quite badly apparently over in Mauritius and the Seychelles.
Of course this wouldn't be a problem if the UK hadn't thrown them out of their original homes so the Yanks could build a military base.
Of course this wouldn't be a problem if the UK hadn't thrown them out of their original homes so the Yanks could build a military base.
Re: Windrush Scandal
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ees-treble" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Windrush Scandal
The massive increase in fees isn't fair if they're already paying taxes.AndrewJB wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ees-treble
The extending of time to apply for citizenship isn't fair.
The lad in.rhe article has lived in the UK for 13 years though and hasn't applied for citizenship though.
There must be a reason, especially with Brexit happening etc.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The massive increase in fees isn't fair if they're already paying taxes.
The extending of time to apply for citizenship isn't fair.
The lad in.rhe article has lived in the UK for 13 years though and hasn't applied for citizenship though.
There must be a reason, especially with Brexit happening etc.
It's unfair fees are a feature, not a bug. It's all designed to make immigration harder. (btw, what happens to illegal immigration when legal immigration becomes more difficult? We've had this talk before, you and I, so hopefully you remember.)
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Re: Windrush Scandal
If I remember rightly you throw a tantrum and call anyone who disagrees a Nazi, right wing, insert ***** here.Imploding Turtle wrote:It's unfair fees are a feature, not a bug. It's all designed to make immigration harder. (btw, what happens to illegal immigration when legal immigration becomes more difficult? We've had this talk before, you and I, so hopefully you remember.)
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Re: Windrush Scandal
No. You're just choosing to attack me for no reason.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If I remember rightly you throw a tantrum and call anyone who disagrees a Nazi, right wing, insert ***** here.
Interesting, isn't it? We agree that there is unfairness here and yet you still don't want to be seen to agree with me.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
It's what you do, it isn't really an attack, but you'll view it differently.Imploding Turtle wrote:No. You're just choosing to attack me for no reason.
As for immigration, no issue with illegal immigration being made harder, but we are generally crap at that anyway and dealing with illegal migrants when we find them.
Legal immigration is fine with me, ramping the fees right up for current residents isn't really fair though and I've no issue with the NHS fee being included if someone ISN'T already paying taxes.
I'd also prefer it if people were moving here to do skilled jobs, not working in manual or low skilled jobs that British people could do.
I've no time for people whinging if they've failed to get their own affairs in order prior to recent rule changes, it isn't down to the government to hold their hands and make sure their status is sorted prior to rule changes.
Asylum seeking is a different thing altogether.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:It's what you do, ...
Nope. Not true. You have to be a mendacious prick to even say that it is.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
Yep, you're always eager to throw out the N word, you were hinting towards it the other day and got a sulk on when I pointed that out.Imploding Turtle wrote:Nope. Not true. You have to be a mendacious prick to even say that it is.
I'm not going to argue with you about it, that is how I view you and it isn't going to change because you're the one who does it more than anyone else.
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Re: Windrush Scandal
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Yep, you're always eager to throw out the N word, you were hinting towards it the other day and got a sulk on when I pointed that out.
I'm not going to argue with you about it, that is how I view you and it isn't going to change because you're the one who does it more than anyone else.
Why don't you do a search of "Nazi" in my post history and post an example of where you think i've misused it. It only throws up 49 posts so you don't have to look for hours even if you find nothing.