Dyche's signings

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:27 pm

The Guardian have an interesting article on Sunderland's signings since 2009.
What is notable is the number of players they've gone through in that time. Looking at the list and the marks out of 10, it's not surprising they've struggled the last few years.
So it got me thinking about Dyche's signings. How have we done in comparison? How many out of 10 would they get?
Here's my list:
2013-14
Heaton 9
Arfield 8
Jones 8
Barnes 9
2014-15
Boyd 7
Taylor 6
Jukewitz 5
Sordell 4
Ward 8
Keane 9
2015-16
Ulvestad 4
Gray 8
Hennings 4
Lowton 8
The Belgian lad 3
2016-17
Hendrick 6
Pope 9
Berg Gudmundsson 8
Tarkowski 9
Brady 7
Defour 7
Westwood 7
2017-18
Wood 7
Wells 5
Walters 4
Cork 8
Bardsley 6
Taylor 7
Nkoudou 5
Lennon 6
(I might have missed a few!)

Here's the article, it's worth a look. (I think we've faired a bit better in the transfer market!)
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... nder-short" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Barton?

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:32 pm

chekhov wrote:The Guardian have an interesting article on Sunderland's signings since 2009.
What is notable is the number of players they've gone through in that time. Looking at the list and the marks out of 10, it's not surprising they've struggled the last few years.
So it got me thinking about Dyche's signings. How have we done in comparison? How many out of 10 would they get?
Here's my list:
2013-14
Heaton 9
Arfield 8
Jones 8
Barnes 9
2014-15
Boyd 7
Taylor 6
Jukewitz 5
Sordell 4
Ward 8
Keane 9
2015-16
Ulvestad 4
Gray 8
Hennings 4
Lowton 8
The Belgian lad 3
2016-17
Hendrick 6
Pope 9
Berg Gudmundsson 8
Tarkowski 9
Brady 7
Defour 7
Westwood 7
2017-18
Wood 7
Wells 5
Walters 4
Cork 8
Bardsley 6
Taylor 7
Nkoudou 5
Lennon 6
(I might have missed a few!)

Here's the article, it's worth a look. (I think we've faired a bit better in the transfer market!)
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... nder-short" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Defour as good a signing as Charlie Taylor?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:35 pm

Charlie's one for the future, no doubt.

Can't disagree with much of your ratings but I'd definitely push Lennon up to a 7, possibly an 8.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:40 pm

Archer wrote:Defour as good a signing as Charlie Taylor?

Defour injured, hence only 7. Charlie, maybe a 6.5
Barton 8

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:42 pm

Rowls wrote:Charlie's one for the future, no doubt.

Can't disagree with much of your ratings but I'd definitely push Lennon up to a 7, possibly an 8.

Don't think Lennon has done enough as of yet. And last 2 or 3 games he's been quiet.

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:42 pm

Defour and Brady are as good as anything. IMO of course

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm

Ward would get a ten from me. For a player at that stage In his career, along with the experience that he’d picked up at other clubs, I really am struggling to think of what more we could’ve asked of him. Our record with Wardy in the team, when compared to our stats in his absence, is truly staggering. It’s a ten out of ten signing. Cost us a bag of washers; delivered us gold time and time again: he’s a diamond!

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:58 pm

How you can possibly give Juke a 5 and Walters only a 4 is baffling. Hardly seen Walters play and he's still had more of an impact than Juke did.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:02 pm

Didnt we sign noble in 13/14?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm

whiffa wrote:How you can possibly give Juke a 5 and Walters only a 4 is baffling. Hardly seen Walters play and he's still had more of an impact than Juke did.

Juke wasn't bad in the Box the Jurys out

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Ward would get a ten from me. For a player at that stage In his career, along with the experience that he’d picked up at other clubs, I really am struggling to think of what more we could’ve asked of him. Our record with Wardy in the team, when compared to our stats in his absence, is truly staggering. It’s a ten out of ten signing. Cost us a bag of washers; delivered us gold time and time again: he’s a diamond!

Im convinced we would've survived in 2014 but for his injury.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm

whiffa wrote:How you can possibly give Juke a 5 and Walters only a 4 is baffling. Hardly seen Walters play and he's still had more of an impact than Juke did.

I'm not the most scrupulous, but Juke played more games than Walters has (don't think he has even played one league game) and though he never scored he was actually pretty reasonable in terms of his general play.
So, you know what, I'm standing by my initial marks!

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:09 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Didnt we sign noble in 13/14?

Yes I just couldn't remember his name!
He gets a 2.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:10 pm

whiffa wrote:How you can possibly give Juke a 5 and Walters only a 4 is baffling. Hardly seen Walters play and he's still had more of an impact than Juke did.

It's virtually impossible to rate Walters until he has a few games.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:13 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:Defour and Brady are as good as anything. IMO of course

For me Brady has yet to perform on a consistent basis, and he's injured.

Archie Claret · Post by **Archie Claret** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:16 pm

I recommend Cork for at least a 9. He has been immense this year, definitely my player of the year.
Watched the thread with all the goals and his contribution is huge.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:16 pm

jdrobbo wrote:Ward would get a ten from me. For a player at that stage In his career, along with the experience that he’d picked up at other clubs, I really am struggling to think of what more we could’ve asked of him. Our record with Wardy in the team, when compared to our stats in his absence, is truly staggering. It’s a ten out of ten signing. Cost us a bag of washers; delivered us gold time and time again: he’s a diamond!

Good point! Okay I'll bump him up to a 9 (10 is taking it too far).

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:23 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:Didnt we sign noble in 13/14?

chekhov wrote:Yes I just couldn't remember his name!
He gets a 2.

He was effectively given a long-term trial with the club to try and prove himself. He was only signed because we were so low on numbers. Later on we managed to find enough spare change to buy Ashley Barnes.

The signings that first season, when there was no room for mistakes, were immense. On top of that we lost a lot of old first-team regulars like Grant, McCann, Paterson and of course star striker Charlie Austin.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:42 pm

Dyche thinks a huge amount of Hendrick by listening to him tonight. He thinks he’s done well playing an unfamiliar role and has had some possibly unfair criticism this season.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:49 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:Dyche thinks a huge amount of Hendrick by listening to him tonight. He thinks he’s done well playing an unfamiliar role and has had some possibly unfair criticism this season.

Listening to him where PYCB?

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:00 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Listening to him where PYCB?

Earby Clarets, Q&A session bud.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:04 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:Earby Clarets, Q&A session bud.

Owt juicy to tell?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:05 pm

Darikwa

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:07 pm

tim_noone wrote:Darikwa

Thanks!
Darikwa 6

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:09 pm

chekhov wrote:Thanks!
Darikwa 6

My thoughts to 6

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:10 pm

Wasn't it Wile E Coyote who said that Darikwa was better than Trippier?

chipbutty · Post by **chipbutty** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:15 pm

Dyer?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:20 pm

chekhov wrote:The Guardian have an interesting article on Sunderland's signings since 2009.
What is notable is the number of players they've gone through in that time. Looking at the list and the marks out of 10, it's not surprising they've struggled the last few years.
So it got me thinking about Dyche's signings. How have we done in comparison? How many out of 10 would they get?
Here's my list:
2013-14
Heaton 9

...

Heaton, 9? We signed an England goalkeeper on a free transfer - and only 9? Who do we have to sign to get a 10?

Or Keane? Pay £2m, get promotion to the Premier, sell for £25m - if that's not a 10, then what is?

Full marks for effort. But if I was marking, anyone we sign with little or no Premier experience at a low fee or for free, who goes on to be international class, gets 10. That includes Heaton, Pope, Tarkowski, Ward, Keane, possibly Gudmondsson although he was already international class. Also possibly Arfield, but maybe only 9 or 9.5 because he's just a touch short of the other players; on the other hand, when signing free transfers, "only just Premier League class" is exceptionally good.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:22 pm

chipbutty wrote:Dyer?

Forgot him.
Hmmm...tricky, but I think a 7.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:27 pm

dsr wrote:Heaton, 9? We signed an England goalkeeper on a free transfer - and only 9? Who do we have to sign to get a 10? Or Keane? Pay £2m, get promotion to the Premier, sell for £25m - if that's not a 10, then what is?

Full marks for effort. But if I was marking, anyone we sign with little or no Premier experience at a low fee or for free, who goes on to be international class, gets 10. That includes Heaton, Pope, Tarkowski, Ward, Keane, possibly Gudmondsson although he was already international class. Also possibly Arfield, but maybe only 9 or 9.5 because he's just a touch short of the other players; on the other hand, when signing free transfers, "only just Premier League class" is exceptionally good.

On reflection you're right about Heaton, and what's the point marking up to 10 if you you're not going to utilise the 10. However I would reserve it just for Heaton because he stands above all the others you mention. He is exceptional.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:03 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Owt juicy to tell?

Not hugely bot, he’s good to listen to though.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:06 pm

Aye he doesn't really do juicy does our Sean.

Always a great listen.

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:21 pm

Interesting to see The Black Cats were signing enough players to make an entire new team each season. There's a moral there somewhere. Also, one of their best signings cost just £1m from Altrincham - Duncan Watmore.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:26 pm

This was by far, by far Dyche's best ever signing.

It's a 10 out of 10 all day long.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42795731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rumbletonk · Post by **Rumbletonk** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:32 pm

chekhov wrote:For me Brady has yet to perform on a consistent basis, and he's injured.

I think he was up until the injury. He took a while to settle but looked like our best player for a decent period leading up to that point. I get where you're coming from though.

Him playing like that next season, Joey on the other wing, Defour pulling the stings behind them and the new number 10 (someone like a Messi/Pele cross but taller). That'll do me

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 am

chekhov wrote:Don't think Lennon has done enough as of yet. And last 2 or 3 games he's been quiet.

Mainly been quiet when Dyche plays him on the wrong wing.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:14 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:Didnt we sign noble in 13/14?

Yes, but if you include Noble then you have to include a whole host of other academy signings.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:51 am

I'd say all four of the lads signed in his first full season deserve 10's. All of them played a crucial role in not one, but two automatic promotions!

Jones was a player who divided opinion but he was a mainstay next to Marney in 13/14 and Barton in 15/16. He was much more influential than people realise.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:37 pm

The Sunderland thing in the Guardian makes really interesting reading and although the latest year isn't necessarily representative, it's staggering how many bad foreign buys they made which went horribly wrong. Poor scouting, poor valuations and a failure to see that they were having their trousers firmly removed!! PLUS, how many of their players suffer serious injuries?? Crumbs it's a career graveyard up there!

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:41 pm

chekhov wrote:Defour injured, hence only 7.

How dare someone get injured?

Defour's performances alone warrant a 9 but his influence on the rest of the team (imagine just training with the guy, it would inspire You?) Makes him a 10 all day long.

chekhov · Post by **chekhov** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:57 pm

Diesel wrote:How dare someone get injured?

Defour's performances alone warrant a 9 but his influence on the rest of the team (imagine just training with the guy, it would inspire You?) Makes him a 10 all day long.

What I mean to say I think is that he has performed over relatively few games (though he is a class above, for sure). This season he's played what, half the games?
If he plays consistently next season I might give him another point.
Anyway it's all about opinions, of course it would be easy to give every player over the past year or two 9's and10's but not very interesting.
I will say that my opinion counts for very little. I've seen us live twice in the past five years.
As I've said before: what do I know?

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:29 pm

The catalyst for this season's success, of that there is little doubt mate, he set the tempo, fortunately Westwood followed his lead.