What have Zen masters ever done for us?

[Pstotto]

What have Zen masters ever done for us?

"Well, they've combed some gravel, haven't they?"

[gawthorpe_view]

They gave us an insight into motorcycle maintenance.

[paulus the woodgnome]

Indeed. I've owned several Hondas, a Suzuki, one Yammy and a Kwacker.

[4:20]

They gave us an insight into motorcycle maintenance.

What a great book.

[Pstotto]

And what did they tell you? How to think CAR and comb gravel with your motorbike?

[ElectroClaret]

Brought peace?

And the aqueduct. Don't forget the aqueduct.

[4:20]

And what did they tell you? How to think CAR and comb gravel with your motorbike?

In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Pirsig explores the meaning and concept of "quality"; a term he conceives as undefinable. Pirsig's thesis is that to truly experience quality one must both embrace and apply it as best fits the requirements of the situation. According to Pirsig, such an approach would avoid a great deal of frustration and dissatisfaction common to modern life.

In the book, the Narrator describes the "Romantic" approach to life of his friend, John Sutherland, who chooses not to learn how to maintain his expensive new motorcycle. John simply hopes for the best with his bike, and when problems do occur he often becomes frustrated and is forced to rely on professional mechanics to repair it. In contrast, the "classical" Narrator has an older motorcycle which he is usually able to diagnose and repair himself through the use of rational problem solving skills.

In an example of the classical approach, Pirsig explains to the reader that one must pay continual attention: when the Narrator and his friends came into Miles City, Montana[4] he notices that the "engine idle is loping a little", a possible indication that the fuel/air mixture is too rich. The next day he is thinking of this as he is going through his ritual to adjust the valves on his cycle's engine. During the adjustment, he notes that both spark plugs are black, confirming a rich mixture. He recognizes that the higher elevation is causing the engine to run rich. The narrator rectifies this by installing new jets with the valves adjusted, and the engine runs well again.

With this, the book details two types of personalities: those who are interested mostly in gestalts (romantic viewpoints, such as Zen, focused on being "In the moment", and not on rational analysis), and those who seek to know the details, understand the inner workings, and master the mechanics (classic viewpoints with application of rational analysis, vis-a-vis motorcycle maintenance) and so on.

The Sutherlands represent an exclusively romantic attitude toward the world. The Narrator initially appears to prefer the classic approach. It later becomes apparent that he understands both viewpoints and is aiming for the middle ground. He understands that technology, and the "dehumanized world" it carries with it, appears ugly and repulsive to a romantic person. He knows that such persons are determined to shoehorn all of life's experience into the romantic view. Pirsig is capable of seeing the beauty of technology and feels good about mechanical work, where the goal is "to achieve an inner peace of mind". The book demonstrates that motorcycle maintenance may be dull and tedious drudgery or an enjoyable and pleasurable pastime; it all depends on attitude

Taken from Wiki.

There's a lot more to the book than that, it's an incredible read in my opinion, melds many philosophies, comments on the turmoil, upheaval and degeneration of the 60s, explores the father son relationship, explores 'quality' and it's meaning, gives insight into quite severe mental 'disorder' and it's barbaric attempts to 'cure', well worth a read and not really about 'Zen' and its practice in an organised sense, whatever that is.

[Pstotto]

What about all stops to koan?

[4:20]

What about all stops to koan?

A world without 'Suzanne' and 'bird on a wire' would sadden me.

[Pstotto]

Sounds like you've been clipping your nuts for your Bonzai sex drive.

[Buxtonclaret]

I like those chants some of their disciples do.
The reverberate peacefully around my eardrums and calm my spirit.

[Pstotto]

WHAT CHANTS??????????? This calms my spirit and makes he me happy, it's a traditional English folk refrain:

Who the f*ck
Who the f*ck
Who the f*ckinell r u
Who the f*ckinell r u!

I wonder what their reply would be?

NNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm as they sit with a walnut up their ass.

[Dante.El.Chunk]

Who am I? Is a common starting point in Buddhism.

[Pstotto]

Don't bother.

[Nonayforever]

Zen masters haven't really done anything for me personally.

Now the Augusta master's, that a totally different ball game.

[Pstotto]

I like MV Agusta motorcycles.

The impoverished and the jealous rage on about materialism, not only whilst being material themselves but also breathing in and breathing out materialism.

They see only the object and not the iconography of spirit, intent, love-in-the-making etc. etc. and also what one might do with an object.

The irony of Buddhism is that they rail against the material world whilst worshipping statues.