Tommy Robinson

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:24 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Because the people there yesterday (to the best of my knowledge) weren't the EDL, they were just regular people.

Reguler people understand that when you deliberately do something that makes it easier, or more likely, for paedophiles to escape justice then that's against the law.

Do you think those "regular people" at that protest understand that?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:30 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Reguler people understand that when you deliberately do something that makes it easier, or more likely, for paedophiles to escape justice then that's against the law.

Do you think those "regular people" at that protest understand that?

Probably not.

Being regular people, they won't really comprehend all the legal loopholes and political games involved in the wider case. They will simply see a problem in their society (often as they are broadly white working class it was right in the heart of their communities) that was allowed to be kept quiet for decades, then see a guy who (is very much like them in upbringing) was bringing attention to it only get arrested.

They see two basic injustices.

All the legal tittle tattle and squirming is just noise to them.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:36 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Probably not.

Being regular people, they won't really comprehend all the legal loopholes and political games involved in the wider case. They will simply see a problem in their society (often as they are broadly white working class it was right in the heart of their communities) that was allowed to be kept quiet for decades, then see a guy who (is very much like them in upbringing) was bringing attention to it only get arrested.

They see two basic injustices.

All the legal tittle tattle and squirming is just noise to them.

So you think regular people can't understand that jeopardising the integrity of a trial is a crime.

And to think i thought I had a low opinion of people.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:45 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:So you think regular people can't understand that jeopardising the integrity of a trial is a crime.

And to think i thought I had a low opinion of people.

There are a lot of variables in this case, not least emotive variables that obscure it. It''s not as simple as say intimidating witnesses or bribing jurors, which are of course more sinister methods of jeopardising a trail.

Besides, lets be honest about this.

There is no way his actions are going to lead to this trail being thrown out. Who in their right might, during such a hot political environment is going to release half a dozen grooming rapist paedophiles due to a legal technicality? If they do, then they are fully responsible for the ensuing shitstorm that would inevitably follow.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:47 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:There are a lot of variables in this case, not least emotive variables that obscure it. It''s not as simple as say intimidating witnesses or bribing jurors, which are of course more sinister methods of jeopardising a trail.

Besides, lets be honest about this.

There is no way his actions are going to lead to this trail being thrown out. Who in their right might, during such a hot political environment is going to release half a dozen grooming rapist paedophiles due to a legal technicality? If they do, then they are fully responsible for the ensuing shitstorm that would inevitably follow.

No. It's actually really really simple.

The judge presiding over the trial set certain rules to protect the integrity of the trial. Tommy Robinson broke those rules. By breaking those rules he was in contempt of court. Contempt of court is a crime.

See how easy that was?

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:48 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:There are a lot of variables in this case, not least emotive variables that obscure it. It''s not as simple as say intimidating witnesses or bribing jurors, which are of course more sinister methods of jeopardising a trail.

Besides, lets be honest about this.

There is no way his actions are going to lead to this trail being thrown out. Who in their right might, during such a hot political environment is going to release half a dozen grooming rapist paedophiles due to a legal technicality? If they do, then they are fully responsible for the ensuing shitstorm that would inevitably follow.

You really are struggling to grasp the basic concepts of law.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:52 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:
There is no way his actions are going to lead to this trail being thrown out. Who in their right might, during such a hot political environment is going to release half a dozen grooming rapist paedophiles due to a legal technicality? If they do, then they are fully responsible for the ensuing shitstorm that would inevitably follow.

This deserved its own reply because, as has been said, it fails to grasp the fundamentals of our justice system.

These people wouldn't be released just because of a "legal technicality". If they were guilty and released as a consequence of juror interference then the reason they'd be being released is because we wouldn't be sure enough that they got a fair trial. And if we can't provide someone a fair trial, no matter how clear cut you think the evidence is, they can't be convicted because we don't convict people in unfair trials. (not willingly)

That's the whole ******* point. By deliberately breaking the rules set by the judge which were intended to ensure the fairness of a trial, Tommy Robinson risked the fairness of that trial.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:00 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:This deserved its own reply because, as has been said, it fails to grasp the fundamentals of our justice system.

These people wouldn't be released just because of a "legal technicality". If they were guilty and released as a consequence of juror interference then the reason they'd be being released is because we wouldn't be sure enough that they got a fair trial. And if we can't provide someone a fair trial, no matter how clear cut you think the evidence is, they can't be convicted because we don't convict people in unfair trials. (not willingly)

That's the whole ******* point. By deliberately breaking the rules set by the judge which were intended to ensure the fairness of a trial, Tommy Robinson risked the fairness of that trial.

Ok

1.) There's no evidence to say he broke those rules deliberately, in fact he was video'd during the event repeatedly asking "this is legal, we are allowed to do this aren't we?" at least twice. So you can accuse him of being ignorant, but malicious or deliberately trying to obscure the integrity of the trail? No, that's ridiculous.

2.) I have still not seen any evidence that jurors were interfered with during his little outside court rampage.

3.) Our legal system is severely flawed if people responsible for such reprehensible crimes, with overwhelming evidence against them can get off due to the possibility of a juror seeing a livestream (viewed by about 3,000 people worldwide at the time) and influenced their views beyond that of the case evidence.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:06 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote: 1.) There's no evidence to say he broke those rules deliberately, in fact he was video'd during the event repeatedly asking "this is legal, we are allowed to do this aren't we?" at least twice. So you can accuse him of being ignorant, but malicious or deliberately trying to obscure the integrity of the trail? No, that's ridiculous.

I think it's important to point out that no-one defending Tommy Robinson has been able to provide any examples of someone else, having done the same thing as he did (warned of being in contempt of court for filming outside despite warnings from the judge) and then been let off.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:24 am

I'm not sure if this tweet is real or not, I hope it isn't because I can't imagine someone being so dense

https://twitter.com/RealitySmash/status ... 9496109058" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:I'm not sure if this tweet is real or not, I hope it isn't because I can't imagine someone being so dense

https://twitter.com/RealitySmash/status ... 9496109058" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course it's real.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:35 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Probably not.

Being regular people, they won't really comprehend all the legal loopholes and political games involved in the wider case. They will simply see a problem in their society (often as they are broadly white working class it was right in the heart of their communities) that was allowed to be kept quiet for decades, then see a guy who (is very much like them in upbringing) was bringing attention to it only get arrested.

They see two basic injustices.

All the legal tittle tattle and squirming is just noise to them.

There were no political games, legal loopholes, or basic injustices. A man broke the law. He was told not to do it again. He did it again, so he’s been locked up. I fail to see what people don’t understand about this - it’s really simple.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:42 am

Greenmile wrote:There were no political games, legal loopholes, or basic injustices. A man broke the law. He was told not to do it again. He did it again, so he’s been locked up. I fail to see what people don’t understand about this - it’s really simple.

Evidently not to the ‘regular people.’

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:45 am

He also pleaded guilty.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:59 am

Billy Balfour wrote:He also pleaded guilty.

Yeah, but aside from that there's literally no evidence he's guilty. Why are you cherry-picking his guilty plea and ignoring all the other information that doesn't prove his guilt?! Fkin totalitarian freeze peach hating libruls.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:47 am

ClaretAL wrote:The problem in your statement is you don't see the no go areas because of ultra violence towards the police from immigrants in London due to the media blackout,

Out of curiosity, where specifically are these areas?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So you think regular people can't understand that jeopardising the integrity of a trial is a crime.

And to think i thought I had a low opinion of people.

Well yours is post 803 a narcissist in the North taking interest in a thick lad from Luton
He sees a bigger picture than you, smarty pants, A set of token gesture show trials after years of cover ups of rape and paedophilia, to prove justice is being served, then it can be ignored for the next decade.
He knows that highlighting the ongoing crimes is serving a greater purpose than prosecuting a few as an example.
Happen he’s a self publicist also but at least he gets off his arse

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Well yours is post 803 a narcissist in the North taking interest in a thick lad from Luton
He sees a bigger picture than you, smarty pants, A set of token gesture show trials after years of cover ups of rape and paedophilia, to prove justice is being served, then it can be ignored for the next decade.
He knows that highlighting the ongoing crimes is serving a greater purpose than prosecuting a few as an example.
Happen he’s a self publicist also but at least he gets off his arse

Maybe he should have joined the police.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:02 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Maybe he should have joined the police.

Yes if he’d wanted to be absolutely powerless and stand by as it all happened.
He could have whistle blown but would likely have lost his job

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:24 pm

Although it was amusing that the protests coincided with the naked bike ride.

: DfQhZW4WkAAIVv2.jpg (178.4 KiB) Viewed 3595 times

bfcmartin · Post by **bfcmartin** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:37 pm

So the judge made a rule that no one could report on the case, so how would the public know they could be breaking the law if it could not be reported in the first place

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:I'm not sure if this tweet is real or not, I hope it isn't because I can't imagine someone being so dense

https://twitter.com/RealitySmash/status ... 9496109058" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look what I found

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/ph ... /910188844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By the way, took about 10 seconds to find that. Pro tip, if you suspect you're viewing a Russian troll account, right click the profile image, select 'search google for this image' and have a look for stock photo websites, then perhaps spread the word that it's a troll account.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Spiral wrote:Look what I found

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/ph ... /910188844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By the way, took about 10 seconds to find that. Pro tip, if you suspect you're viewing a Russian troll account, right click the profile image, select 'search google for this image' and have a look for stock photo websites, then perhaps spread the word that it's a troll account.

Crikey. The thing is, how can you tell the difference between parody and a troll account?

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:49 pm

Poe's law. But realistically, very few people are going to put such effort into a parody account whereas troll farming is a paid full time job in Russia.

lovebeingaclaret · Post by **lovebeingaclaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:01 pm

What is slander

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:12 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Well yours is post 803 a narcissist in the North taking interest in a thick lad from Luton
He sees a bigger picture than you, smarty pants, A set of token gesture show trials after years of cover ups of rape and paedophilia, to prove justice is being served, then it can be ignored for the next decade.
He knows that highlighting the ongoing crimes is serving a greater purpose than prosecuting a few as an example.
Happen he’s a self publicist also but at least he gets off his arse

He sees a set of token gesture show trials?

Wasn't his issue that these trials weren't actually show trials, that the defendant names were kept secret until after it?

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:57 pm

aggi wrote:Although it was amusing that the protests coincided with the naked bike ride.

DfQhZW4WkAAIVv2.jpg

Loads of silly arses together then.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:19 pm

This explains it quite well:

https://www.facebook.com/AntoineSpeaksO ... 632/?t=537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He sees a set of token gesture show trials?

Wasn't his issue that these trials weren't actually show trials, that the defendant names were kept secret until after it?

Show trials as in the process rather than to highlight the individuals, a handful of bad men, out of the thousands of perpetrators, but you knew that.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:53 pm

For context, BleedingClaret is the poster someone had to report last May for use of the word 'paki'

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:53 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Show trials as in the process rather than to highlight the individuals, a handful of bad men, out of the thousands of perpetrators, but you knew that.

I'm curious, and I'd genuinely like an answer to this, what the **** kind of judicial system would you like us to have?
Are you suggesting we put these individuals on trial for the similar crimes of everyone who happens to pray in the same direction or something?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:56 pm

Walton wrote:For context, BleedingClaret is the poster someone had to report last May for use of the word 'paki'

For further context BleedingClaret is one of the very few posters I've had a conversation with on here in the past who has seemed actually interested in educating themselves about something we were talking about.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:05 pm

And you still take that tone with him?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:04 pm

Walton wrote:And you still take that tone with him?

I take that tone with everyone. I'm an equal opportunities ****.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:08 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm curious, and I'd genuinely like an answer to this, what the **** kind of judicial system would you like us to have?
Are you suggesting we put these individuals on trial for the similar crimes of everyone who happens to pray in the same direction or something?

It the decisions to turn a blind eye to the heinous crimes being committed by those responsible for bringing people to the justice system.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:18 am

BleedingClaret wrote:It the decisions to turn a blind eye to the heinous crimes being committed by those responsible for bringing people to the justice system.

If they turn a blind eye how come a group of Asian men are on trial for rape?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:51 am

BleedingClaret wrote:It the decisions to turn a blind eye to the heinous crimes being committed by those responsible for bringing people to the justice system.

They're on ******* trial.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:02 am

This lot maybe on trial but how many never do .How many vanish before they can be brought to justice.How many have their crimes covered over by their local communities.How many vulnerable young girls are abused and their allegations ignored by the authorities.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:10 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:This lot maybe on trial but how many never do .How many vanish before they can be brought to justice.How many have their crimes covered over by their local communities.How many vulnerable young girls are abused and their allegations ignored by the authorities.

No different to the Catholic community and the Vatican is it?

How many priests have been reported to the police?

Dom · Post by **Dom** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:17 am

Stephen Lennon is a thick ****, who was already on a suspended sentence for contempt of court. He then commits the same crime and his thicko followers can't understand why he should be sent to prison.

Some absolute **** were out protesting over the weekend, seen a fair few nazi salutes and violence against the police.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:19 am

Yeah, the "well, he's not a fascist and neither are we for backing him" bunch took a bit of a hit at the weekend.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am

Spijed wrote:No different to the Catholic community and the Vatican is it?

How many priests have been reported to the police?

So this makes what is happening at the moment acceptable.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:48 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:So this makes what is happening at the moment acceptable.

Congratulations. You found the dumbest possible interpretation.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:31 am

Spijed wrote:If they turn a blind eye how come a group of Asian men are on trial for rape?

They did for years, ask Sara Rowbotham.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:32 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:For further context BleedingClaret is one of the very few posters I've had a conversation with on here in the past who has seemed actually interested in educating themselves about something we were talking about.

Awww!

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:46 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:They're on ******* trial.

They are yes, and I understand his actions potentially give them an opportunity to say that he has prejudiced the trial and they now can't get a fair trial.
I also understand that he has committed an offence that he was already on a suspended sentence for and therefore a custodial sentence was apt.
I'm also pretty sure that if I was to spend time with him I'd likely think oh ****, he's a racist nutter.
What i do think is that he might just not be, and theres an argument that the type of crimes that this trial is addressing have gone largely unpunished and still are doing and it might only, sadly, take a mob rule type of action to combat it.
In a society where some people seem to be more outraged by the abbreviation of a word than the plight of 12 year old girls being systematically gang raped what am I to think cos a few of them may get there comeuppance.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:32 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Theres an argument that the type of crimes that this trial is addressing have gone largely unpunished.

No there isn't.

When crimes like this are brought to light they are investigated and, if there is enough evidence, the perpetrators are punished.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:No there isn't.

When crimes like this are brought to light they are investigated and, if there is enough evidence, the perpetrators are punished.

They weren’t brought to light, they were ignored, denied, covered up, swept under the carpet, blamed on the victim, blamed on the victims families.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:52 pm

So how do we know of them if they weren't brought to light?

Is having a major trial and a frigging tv documentary not bringing them to light?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:52 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:So how do we know of them if they weren't brought to light?

Is having a major trial and a frigging tv documentary not bringing them to light?

Eventually