moving your girlfriend in to live with you

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:06 pm

been seeing a lass for a while and she rents a flat out of town. I have my own place so it seems to make sense she moves in with me. not looking for marriage or nothing like that but just wanted a bit of advice. you read stories of people moving in with someone then things not working out then the person who has moved in demands half the property or whatever. has anyone any experience of this or advice.
would like to help her out but not at the expense of loads of hassle.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:08 pm

claretnproud wrote: not looking for marriage or nothing like that.

Don't do it or marriage will find you.

pompeyclaret · Post by **pompeyclaret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:08 pm

depends what she wants out of it too, and where you see yourself going. Unless shes on any deeds, and no marriage (or kids), is no hassle, she has no ownership or claim as far as I'm aware.
How long is a while? Is a big step, get to see all the bad habbits.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:09 pm

Seriously though, if the mortgage remains in your name only, I don't think she will be able to claim any rights to the property. It shouldn't be any different to having a lodger.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:09 pm

Don't you gain similar rights to a married couple of you've been living together for 2 years or more?

There will be varying factors but if she's paying towards to mortgage etc then rightly she would be entitled to money if you broke up.

Look into it.

Don't do it. Women are mental.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:10 pm

Do it.

Women are ace.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:11 pm

Don't move her in for convenience, only do it because you want to.
The fact you're on here asking if you should tells me you shouldn't to be honest.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:17 pm

From my experience it actually made things much better. That said I had been putting it off for over ten years and when I came back from holiday she had moved herself in

Seriously though its 'one of them', be careful but if she is the right one things will actually be even better. You will both have your own habits (Some annoying some not) but if she is the right one or even if she isnt its a good thing to do IMO as you will either love it or at least not waste any more time. Just be careful with the obvious stuff - keep the house in your name if you own it etc.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 pm

I think they do have a right to claim, especially if they have been contributing to household bills and mortgage.

Personally, I would only do this if she was “the one”.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:20 pm

Reading the OP back - 'I would like to help her'. Doesnt sound like its THAT serious, forgive me if I am wrong.

Don't move them in unless and until it feels right. With me it felt right way before we actually did it. I just didnt get round to it

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:21 pm

Ask yourself a few questions first.

Will she find all the things you do, that she doesn't realise you do, annoying? Because you'll know how annoying she finds you after about 4 weeks.
Are you a clean freak? Because she's a woman and probably will dislike at least one thing you do when it comes to cleaning.
Do you have any desire to redecorate? Because women are programmed to not be satisified with decor unless they picked it themselves.

Also, do you plan to ditch her? Because the way you've written your post makes it sound like you will.

snapcrackleandpop · Post by **snapcrackleandpop** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:25 pm

Think long and hard, I moved my girlfriend in with me, 25yrs later she is still bloody here.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:29 pm

As long as there is no new decorating to do, you'll be ok!

Longsidelenny · Post by **Longsidelenny** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:48 pm

Thought about many times but decided against it the wife and kids would never forgive me

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:52 pm

Ask her how much rent she pays, then charge her £20 a month less.

That way you are always in the good books.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:53 pm

what I would like to happen is to live together. see if we are compatable then if we are perhaps get a joint mortgage in a better place. this does make me nervous as I am the high earner. just dont want to end up a victim if it all goes to sh1t thats all.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:55 pm

claretnproud, "the person who has moved in demands half the property "

just agree at the outset she can keep the vacuum cleaner if it all goes **** up.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:12 pm

Aargh!! Beware the evils of the female mate. Been there done that and bought the grief. Married twice and a co-hab in between (some say I am the architect of my own downfall). 4 kids as well. Been with my current wife (she hates it when I call her that) for 29 years so this one has lasted well but I could do without the grief sometimes.
Actually it's not bad really but beware of female arrogance. Basically we don't understand women but we admit it. They don't understand us but they think they do and thereby stands the problem. As long as you can get over the problem of communication (they might as well be from another world and I sometimes think they are) then you will be fine. But keep your hand on your wallet.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:13 pm

Me and my wife have lived together for fourteen years, we have been married nine. We compliment each other perfectly, she likes multi tasking and I like doing **** all.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:29 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Seriously though, if the mortgage remains in your name only, I don't think she will be able to claim any rights to the property. It shouldn't be any different to having a lodger.

Not entirely accurate. It would depend to a great extent upon the size and nature of her contribution.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:32 pm

timshorts wrote:Not entirely accurate. It would depend to a great extent upon the size and nature of her contribution.

can you expand on that at all tim?

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Don't you gain similar rights to a married couple of you've been living together for 2 years or more? No

There will be varying factors but if she's paying towards to mortgage etc then rightly she would be entitled to money if you broke up. You are heading here along an implied/constructive trust route - but as she is stated (I know it was in a later post) to be paying "rent" rather than direct contribution towards the mortgage, that would be helpful. Of course, it isn't rent, as such, as she doesn't have exclusive possession of any part of the property, by the sound of it. I imagine that it's effectively some sort of occupational licence fee.

Look into it. Yes, that would be sensible.

Don't do it. Women are mental.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 pm

'Would like to help her out'

In that case, no.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:37 pm

claretnproud wrote:what I would like to happen is to live together. see if we are compatable then if we are perhaps get a joint mortgage in a better place. this does make me nervous as I am the high earner. just dont want to end up a victim if it all goes to sh1t thats all.

Have you farted under the duvet yet? If she laughed, move her in. If she grumbled, move her on.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:40 pm

claretnproud wrote:what I would like to happen is to live together. see if we are compatable then if we are perhaps get a joint mortgage in a better place. this does make me nervous as I am the high earner. just dont want to end up a victim if it all goes to sh1t thats all.

That all sounds pretty sensible. Just make sure, if you follow through and acquire a better place (presumably with a bigger mortgage) that you get a trust deed set up so that your initial capital doesn't accidentally get partially transferred to her. Your capital contribution into the new property ought to be retained by you and ought to get proportionate capital growth. The capital growth appertaining to the part of the new property that was purchased by the mortgage would provide shared capital growth for both of you (subject to the repayment of the mortgage from that part).

This, of course, all gets buggerred up if you get married, or, to some extent, if you produce children.

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:54 pm

thanks for your time tim. sounds like you may be quite well informed.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:57 pm

claretnproud wrote:can you expand on that at all tim?

Well, in cases where a reasonable deal is struck before the person moves in, that will, generally be honoured in the event of a dispute.

In cases where there has been a contribution that is relatively minimal, that is usually going to be ignored. "I helped put the wallpaper up and looked after the flowers., for example. That won't be sufficient to show that a trust has (probably accidentally) been created.

Where the contribution is obviously more substantial, something exists, even though it might take a court hearing to find out what effect it will have. Firstly, the new occupier would have to pass a sort of threshold test to see whether their efforts - and that can be in money or in work to the property - are sufficient to merit a trust interest at all, and if they are large enough, and a trust has been created, the hard part is then to work out what the action merits and what the terms of the trust might be.

Some of these are obvious: Paying off £10,000 from a mortgage, for example would qualify somebody as having an interest (unless it was supposed to be a loan), and if the ladyfriend was a builder, her putting up an extension would be substantial, especially if she had paid for the bricks.

The hard ones are those "in-between". The original owner would be better off not having the cohabitee paying sums to the mortgage company, as it's hard to tell what they were supposed to represent. Then there are cases where people did a lot of work to the property (even if they actually spent nothing in £ in the process) just giving up their time working the cement mixer, landscaping the garden etc which could go either way, probably failing if they were the only thing, but possibly succeeding if there were a lot of them.

In the end, though, the law is a bit of a mess at the moment, thanks largely to a few pretty dubious decisions which, maybe, made sense in the particular cases they related to, but don't work well as a precedent for others.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:04 pm

claretnproud wrote:thanks for your time tim. sounds like you may be quite well informed.

No problem. I think your plan of getting somewhere better together usually works better in the long run. Otherwise, the person who is in your position sometimes feel as if they have been invaded, whereas the girlfriend feels that she's just a lodger that hasn't any security. If you buy something that you move into together, then it is both of yours - even if the percentage ownership isn't 50:50.

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:22 pm

If it turns out to be long term get a Pre-nup. Most Solicitors these days can draw them up.

Back in '93 we had one, still not married but with two kids its all pretty irrelevant 25 years on.

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Re: Clarenproud - we each had our own flats both in London at the time. We too sold them and bought a house. The Pre-nup stated the percentage we owned in the house i.e. 64 / 36% depending upon what equity we were initially contributing. The mortgage was 50/50%. In the case of a split up one had first chance at buying the other out at an agreed current value from 3 estate agents / surveyors.

It was all quite simple really.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:49 pm

timshorts wrote:No problem. I think your plan of getting somewhere better together usually works better in the long run. Otherwise, the person who is in your position sometimes feel as if they have been invaded, whereas the girlfriend feels that she's just a lodger that hasn't any security. If you buy something that you move into together, then it is both of yours - even if the percentage ownership isn't 50:50.

tim - you sound like you're in the business and I would like some advice on what to ask to be set up in my case.

I am soon to be buying a property with my good lady (we're not married, lived together for 6 years) and we can finally move out of rented accommodation. The thing is, the deposit to buy the property is coming from my former marital home from my previous marriage because my ex is finally selling up. It's not an insignificant amount, but neither is it a large proportion of the value of the property we're looking at. For argument sake, the house is £300k and the deposit would be £30k (10%).

My good lady has suggested that we should look at a way of "protecting" the deposit amount for my children as it is "their inheritance" and she or her children shouldn't be entitled to it in the long run. So, is there a way that we can draw up an agreement with a solicitor that defines this and if so - what do we need to ask for?

In reality, it would only matter to me if she decided to take "half" after a couple of years because she wants out - as that wouldn't be fair, but longer term for example when the house is paid for I personally would think that my "half" would go to my kids and her half to hers (obviously when we're both dust!)

does that make sense...?

(sorry for hijacking the thread, but it is an interesting subject)

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:52 pm

Sausage wrote:Have you farted under the duvet yet? If she laughed, move her in. If she grumbled, move her on.

Best advice on the topic.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:14 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Me and my wife have lived together for fourteen years, we have been married nine. We compliment each other perfectly, she likes multi tasking and I like doing **** all.

How are you doing Micky?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:41 pm

Make her sign a bunch of contracts

Oshkoshclaret · Post by **Oshkoshclaret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:49 pm

JTClaret wrote:Don't move her in for convenience, only do it because you want to.
The fact you're on here asking if you should tells me you shouldn't to be honest.

This is very sound advice. If the inner voice is telling you something, listen. It only gets louder.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:50 pm

Prepare for lots of cushions and house plants.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:53 pm

Sausage wrote:Have you farted under the duvet yet? If she laughed, move her in. If she grumbled, move her on.

Coming from an OP called Sausage....I am imagining you sometimes follow through!

1968claret · Post by **1968claret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:54 pm

IanMcL wrote:As long as there is no new decorating to do, you'll be ok!

In my experience once you live with your wife/girlfriend, there is always new decorating/chores/DIY to do. It’s like the bloody forth bridge!

iluva64 · Post by **iluva64** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm

[quote="Rick_Muller"]

My good lady has suggested that we should look at a way of "protecting" the deposit amount for my children as it is "their inheritance" and she or her children shouldn't be entitled to it in the long run. So, is there a way that we can draw up an agreement with a solicitor that defines this and if so - what do we need to ask for?

As I have said earlier, you want a Prenuptial agreement.

Most Solicitors can draw one of these up now.

The Enclosure · Post by **The Enclosure** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:50 pm

you will lose your 25% council tax discount for single occupancy.

ayrshireclaret83 · Post by **ayrshireclaret83** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:09 pm

Wait till after the World Cup

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:21 pm

Take her on holiday for two weeks first. You will find out if you can live together after living in each others pockets in a small hotel room.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:25 pm

if he does it now, it'll be over before the world cup

claretnproud · Post by **claretnproud** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:39 pm

Thanks for all the input all. will be printing this off.

once again Tim, thanks for your efforts on here. Appreciated.

Croydon Claret · Post by **Croydon Claret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:15 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:tim - you sound like you're in the business and I would like some advice on what to ask to be set up in my case.

I am soon to be buying a property with my good lady (we're not married, lived together for 6 years) and we can finally move out of rented accommodation. The thing is, the deposit to buy the property is coming from my former marital home from my previous marriage because my ex is finally selling up. It's not an insignificant amount, but neither is it a large proportion of the value of the property we're looking at. For argument sake, the house is £300k and the deposit would be £30k (10%).

My good lady has suggested that we should look at a way of "protecting" the deposit amount for my children as it is "their inheritance" and she or her children shouldn't be entitled to it in the long run. So, is there a way that we can draw up an agreement with a solicitor that defines this and if so - what do we need to ask for?

In reality, it would only matter to me if she decided to take "half" after a couple of years because she wants out - as that wouldn't be fair, but longer term for example when the house is paid for I personally would think that my "half" would go to my kids and her half to hers (obviously when we're both dust!)

does that make sense...?

(sorry for hijacking the thread, but it is an interesting subject)

Possibly a "Tenants in common" arrangement might work. Traditionally a jointly owned property is registered as "joint tenants" meaning you both own 100% of the house equally, so if one dies then the other gets the the whole property automatically.

With Tenants in Common you both own a pre determined share, normally 50% but can be any percentage you like. In the event of death your share becomes a distinct part of your estate and does not pass to the other party automatically

My mum did that before she passed meaning that her partner and myself now own 50% of the house. They changed it from Joint Tenants to avoid the situation of the children of the first to die losing their inheritance. Personally I don't want the house and would swap it for my mum still being here but you get the point

In my mum's case there was a stipulation in both hers and her partner's will that whoever was the survivor would be allowed to live rent free in the property for as long as they wanted. The 50% share would only be realised upon the sale of the property, either on the survivors death, or at the behest of the survivor.

This gives both of you comfort knowing that your home remains your own until such a time as you decide to sell it or the Grim Reaper comes calling. Neither of you would want the survivor to be hounded outbid their home by the deceased partners children.

So it's a combination of Tenants In Common and a mutual will specifying the nature of ownership of the property after one death. Pretty basic stuff for a solicitor to sort at the time of purchase. I can give you a copy of the wording from my mum's will if it assists

Might not work for you, and please take appropriate advice according to your circumstances, but it's one option

PS Your good lady sounds like a jolly decent person

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:08 pm

Financial matters aside, if she does move in, try to make 'your house' feel like 'her home' otherwise she may feel unsettled, like a guest or lodger.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:26 pm

claretnproud wrote:been seeing a lass for a while and she rents a flat out of town. I have my own place so it seems to make sense she moves in with me. not looking for marriage or nothing like that but just wanted a bit of advice. you read stories of people moving in with someone then things not working out then the person who has moved in demands half the property or whatever. has anyone any experience of this or advice.
would like to help her out but not at the expense of loads of hassle.

If you really have to ask its not real. Do not move in.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:04 pm

Get her pre nuped

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:12 pm

Courts are frequently dismissing pre nuptial agreements. Look at it another....if you dump her, you also make her homeless at the same time. You need to decide just how important this girl is.

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:13 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:tim - you sound like you're in the business and I would like some advice on what to ask to be set up in my case.

I am soon to be buying a property with my good lady (we're not married, lived together for 6 years) and we can finally move out of rented accommodation. The thing is, the deposit to buy the property is coming from my former marital home from my previous marriage because my ex is finally selling up. It's not an insignificant amount, but neither is it a large proportion of the value of the property we're looking at. For argument sake, the house is £300k and the deposit would be £30k (10%).

My good lady has suggested that we should look at a way of "protecting" the deposit amount for my children as it is "their inheritance" and she or her children shouldn't be entitled to it in the long run. So, is there a way that we can draw up an agreement with a solicitor that defines this and if so - what do we need to ask for?

In reality, it would only matter to me if she decided to take "half" after a couple of years because she wants out - as that wouldn't be fair, but longer term for example when the house is paid for I personally would think that my "half" would go to my kids and her half to hers (obviously when we're both dust!)

does that make sense...?

(sorry for hijacking the thread, but it is an interesting subject)

Yes, I'll try and pm you tomorrow. Had to go back to work this afternoon and, of course watch Mr. Pope play earlier. The scenario you describe is a fairly simple one as they go. Most of these follow a fairly simple algebraic formula, but half the time the complication come from somebody not understanding the maths, and that's quite often the solicitor! I think there were about 65 in my year at uni doing law and only 2 of us had maths a-level.
You are after a trust deed. A pre-nup is really for couples intending to get married and trying for some reason to avoid the intervention of the courts on divorce and will cover things other than house.