ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:06 pm

Me four. (Just to start a fresh page)

k90bfc · Post by **k90bfc** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:08 pm

Sean wants him,We all want him,WELCOME HOME JAY!UTC.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:09 pm

CFS wrote:The same rondon who jay outscored last season playing fewer games and out the wing?

Well they scored the same, but Jay played more minutes.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:18 pm

Jay rod has been in tenerife with the family . Someone just retweeted a post his dad put up . Things might start moving forward next week

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:33 pm

aggi wrote:Well they scored the same, but Jay played more minutes.

No they didnt

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:55 pm

CFS wrote:No they didnt

I was only looking at the league, cups can be a bit random compared to performance over a season in the league. He got one more than Rondon in the cups (but played more games).

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Just a quick question...if we sign Jay does it solve our problematic No10 position,and will Jay & Jeff Hendrick both be starters next season?

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:23 pm

Jeff OOC next year and no sign of extension so he may be off along with Mee and Vokes

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:25 pm

mdd2 wrote:Jeff OOC next year and no sign of extension so he may be off along with Mee and Vokes

Hope we offer Jeff another contract ...I love the fella

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:28 pm

mdd2 wrote:Jeff OOC next year and no sign of extension so he may be off along with Mee and Vokes

I doubt we are in a position to discard £10 million players just yet, without offering them a contract.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:37 pm

Jay would be a perfect number 10 in “our” system. Has much more attributes than Hendrick in that position.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:42 pm

Being that Hendrick isn’t a natural number 10 it’s not surprising that Jay has more attributes.

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:44 pm

Are all Burnley transfers this drawn out and pertracted(sp)?

maccclaret · Post by **maccclaret** » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:00 pm

All discussions about Burnley transfers on here are this drawn out and pertracted.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:45 am

Hendrick can play further back in his natural position.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:52 am

CFS wrote:Hendrick can play further back in his natural position.

On the bench then.

He’a got Cork, Defour and Westwood in front of him

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:41 am

Pearcey wrote:Being that Hendrick isn’t a natural number 10 it’s not surprising that Jay has more attributes.

Technically speaking, we don't utilise an orthodox version of the number 10 role. Conventional no 10's have a habit of drifting in and around the hole until an attack brings them into play. Jeff is more like an energiser bunny than links the midfield to attack, making important contributions to both. Our defensive strength was a big factor in our success last season, having Jeff on the pitch in a position where he could drop back and support our midfield was a key part of that.

Stick a different player in that role and you will quickly see the difference. One of our biggest weaknesses is that we only have Jeff that is suited to the demands of that dual role. Losing him at any point in a season could be problematic, because we don't have any cover for him. The way we set up and played last season worked and while a greater variety of tactical options would be welcome if we are forced to set up and play differently our results could easily change for the worse.

I quite like having an unorthodox no10 in our 4-4-1-1, it suits us. We are Burnley, we don't limit ourselves by doing what everyone else does, we put in the graft and concentrate on doing what works for us.

Jeff is a quality central midfielder who is getting better in the attacking third as he adjusts to his new role. I would say that he is our most unfairly underrated player. I'm looking forward to hearing that he has signed a new contract in the very near future.

Claretuk · Post by **Claretuk** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:21 am

Your last paragraph is very inaccurate, but very funny..

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:02 am

We can’t let Hendrick go, the boo boys will then have find somebody else.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:29 am

Nothing wrong with Jeff, he's asked to play an unnatural position and he does it very well. It isn't a conventional no 10 role, refer back to the article on Jeff and recycling the ball.
Jay can play a conventional no 10 role, and play as a left winger, he's also very good in the air. In fact there's not a lot to fault Jay with. This being a Burnley message board people will try though.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:39 am

Right_winger wrote:On the bench then.

He’a got Cork, Defour and Westwood in front of him

Westwood no cork and defour maybe.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:25 am

We have an elite goalscorer. His name is Chris Wood.

He had a better goals per minute ratio than most last season. Only Salah, Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Lacazette and Aubameyang had better records per minute on the pitch. There's no shame finishing behind that lot!

He scored a goal every 163 minutes he was on the pitch, better than 1 in 2, not bad. Better than Lukaku, Morata, Firmino, Arnautovic, Son and exactly the same as Jamie Vardy.

Now imagine Wood up top and Jay Rod playing as number 10 rather than Hendrick and tell me he wouldn't improve the team!

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:30 am

He wouldn't improve the team.

Did i get that right?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:46 am

jlup1980 wrote:We have an elite goalscorer. His name is Chris Wood.

He had a better goals per minute ratio than most last season. Only Salah, Kane, Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Lacazette and Aubameyang had better records per minute on the pitch. There's no shame finishing behind that lot!

He scored a goal every 163 minutes he was on the pitch, better than 1 in 2, not bad. Better than Lukaku, Morata, Firmino, Arnautovic, Son and exactly the same as Jamie Vardy.

Now imagine Wood up top and Jay Rod playing as number 10 rather than Hendrick and tell me he wouldn't improve the team!

What role would you find for Ashley Barnes then?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:09 am

boatshed bill wrote:What role would you find for Ashley Barnes then?

Substitute probably.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:09 am

Why don't we just leave West Brom alone to dig themselves out of the sh!te that they are in ?

I like the club in general , but their dealings in the transfer market when selling, to us anyway, are dreadful.

Let them stew in their own muck, the awkward b@stards.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:13 am

Tall Paul wrote:Substitute probably.

That's what I was thinking.

I thought we had it about right last season with Barnes replacing Hendrick if we needed a bit more up top.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 am

Funkydrummer wrote:Why don't we just leave West Brom alone to dig themselves out of the sh!te that they are in.

I like the club in general , but their dealings in the transfer market when selling, to us anyway, are dreadful.

Let them stew in their own muck, the awkward b@stards.

Because Dyche clearly wants them as they would improve our squad.

Don't see the problem with them negotiating hard - it's what I would want us to do in order to get maximum value.

But at the same time we should be looking at other options and be prepared to quickly walk away if the fees are too high.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:05 am

Funkydrummer wrote:Why don't we just leave West Brom alone to dig themselves out of the sh!te that they are in ?

I like the club in general , but their dealings in the transfer market when selling, to us anyway, are dreadful.

Let them stew in their own muck, the awkward b@stards.

Yes, let's not sign players we want to spite the club that they currently play for.

I would happily see us pay Rovers £15-20m for a player (in the unlikely event they ever have a top class one) if it meant they would improve our team.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:20 am

boatshed bill wrote:What role would you find for Ashley Barnes then?

It might be harsh on him but yes I'd have him on the bench. The potential of Jay Rod behind Wood is huge, especially with JBG and Brady on the wings. Barnes should be utilised as an impact sub.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:22 am

Goobs wrote:I would happily see us pay Rovers £15-20m for a player (in the unlikely event they ever have a top class one) if it meant they would improve our team.

Sadly too many people would disagree with you. They'd put petty differences ahead of what would be best for Burnley.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:34 am

Right_winger wrote:Jay would be a perfect number 10 in “our” system. Has much more attributes than Hendrick in that position.

He may be a perfect "number 10" in most systems but I don't think he would be in our system. Dyche expects the number 10 to be more of an auxiliary midfielder than playing off the striker.

I'd say Rodriguez is probably more of a replacement for Barnes, someone who gets the ball with his back to goal and lays it off but also chips in with the goals.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:50 am

aggi wrote:He may be a perfect "number 10" in most systems but I don't think he would be in our system. Dyche expects the number 10 to be more of an auxiliary midfielder than playing off the striker.

I'd say Rodriguez is probably more of a replacement for Barnes, someone who gets the ball with his back to goal and lays it off but also chips in with the goals.

Can't agree with that. Jay can play out wide and I believe he would also be comfortable dropping off the main striker and running from deep with it.

I don't think he is the perfect fit for that role (personally would prefer Ings or someone similar) but I think he is probably about the best we will be able to afford that could slot right in there.

Hopefully we will also bring in a younger player who can do the role that can progress through as we have done in other positions.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:11 am

boatshed bill wrote:What role would you find for Ashley Barnes then?

The same position he plays in now, with Jay as a substitute.

Playing stats don't give a complete picture of things, but they can serve as an indication about what we can expect.

It can take time for players to get used to playing alongside each other. During the last season we saw a productive partnership develop between Wood and Barnes. They improved over the course of the season and by the end of it they were playing well off each other with a good level of understanding.

In the first thirteen games Wood scored 3 in 11 and Barnes scored 1 in 12.

The next thirteen games saw Wood, who missed 7 matches through injury score 1 in 6, while Barnes notched up 2 in 13.

In the final twelve games of the season Wood slotted home 6 in 9 and Barnes scored 6 in 12.

Looking at the figures, and they don't take everything into account like the free kicks Barnes wins for us and his ability to get under the skin of the opposition, the scoring rate of both players improved dramatically as the season progressed and they became more comfortable playing alongside each other.

If we look at the scoring career of Jay he had a purple patch in the 13/14 season scoring 15 goals in 33 games, before a cruel injury brought it to an end. An interesting observation is that he scored 13 of these goals in 27 appearances on the left wing. The remaining 2 goals came from 5 appearances as a centre forward.

Over the full course of his Premier League career he has scored 18 out of 56 on the Left Wing, 10 out of 42 as a Centre Forward, 5 out of 23 as a Secondary Striker and 0 out of 12 on the Right Wing.

Looking at these stats in isolation, they would appear to suggest that we should be looking at playing Jay on the Left Wing if we want him to score goals. His 1 in 4 goal scoring record as a Centre Forward and Secondary Striker aren't overly impressive at all.

However, we can also look at his scoring stats from the perspective of before his cruciate ligament injury and after it, although he has also had a nasty angle injury as well.

Prior to the injury Jay's stats were

LW - 17 goals in 42 matches with 8 assists
CF - 3 goals in 14 matches with 1 assist
SS - 1 goal in 7 matches with 0 assists

His stats after the injury are

LW - 1 goal in 14 matches with 1 assist
CF - 7 goals in 26 matches with 2 assists
SS - 4 goals in 16 matches with 0 assists

Taking all of these figures into account Jay had all the makings of being a devastating Left Winger before his injury, but this element of his game seems to have diminished in recent years.

Playing more games in the Centre Forward and Secondary Striker roles has seen his performances in these positions improve, but with his current 1 in 4 goal scoring ratio and few assists there is nothing to suggest that he will be a significant overall improvement on Barnes.

That certainly doesn't mean he won't turn out to be, just that his current performance figures don't give a resounding indication that he will be. For what could easily become a record club signing fee I would expect a greater registered performance gap or a greater potential for improvement in terms of playing performance and resale value.

So I would say that Jay is definitely a quality player with a wealth of Premiership experience who will increase our striking depth from 5 players to 6, but I would be very reluctant to replace Barnes and break up a striking partnership that his currently working extremely well

When you look at some of the other players that are up for grabs in this window, and the prospect of WBA holding out for an extortionate amount and taking us into the dying days of it, I still think it might be a good idea to start looking elsewhere.

Longsider · Post by **Longsider** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:51 pm

. When you look at some of the other players that are up for grabs in this window, and the prospect of WBA holding out for an extortionate amount and taking us into the dying days of it, I still think it might be a good idea to start looking elsewhere.

Good Post and I agree with your final paragraph.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:09 pm

With the players due to return in ten days time surly we need to be well in advance with this deal and other potential deals
Its a tight knit shop we run in transfer dealings and thats how it should be
We need to cut our cloth accordingly and get our targets over the line but I have a feeling West Brom will pull our pants down with this
If we haven't pulled the deal off with in the next 10 days or so we need to definitely move on and personally I would not be that disappointed if we did move on from this

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:13 pm

Longside4evr wrote:With the players due to return in ten days time surly we need to be well in advance with this deal and other potential deals
Its a tight knit shop we run in transfer dealings and thats how it should be
We need to cut our cloth accordingly and get our targets over the line but I have a feeling West Brom will pull our pants down with this
If we haven't pulled the deal off with in the next 10 days or so we need to definitely move on and personally I would not be that disappointed if we did move on from this

Nixon rekons we have a slim chance landing both

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:27 pm

Longside4evr wrote:With the players due to return in ten days time surly we need to be well in advance with this deal and other potential deals
Its a tight knit shop we run in transfer dealings and thats how it should be
We need to cut our cloth accordingly and get our targets over the line but I have a feeling West Brom will pull our pants down with this
If we haven't pulled the deal off with in the next 10 days or so we need to definitely move on and personally I would not be that disappointed if we did move on from this

I'd be sick if it fell apart, but I do agree, if we can't get it sorted for the players coming back move on
These things do tend to get announced post 30 june.
Also isn't Jay on holiday in Portugal. Even if it is going through they couldn't day anything until he'd signed.....

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:30 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I'd be sick if it fell apart, but I do agree, if we can't get it sorted for the players coming back move on
These things do tend to get announced post 30 june.
Also isn't Jay on holiday in Portugal. Even if it is going through they couldn't day anything until he'd signed.....

He was in tenerife he came back the other day he went with his family

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:43 pm

He his on holiday we believe in Portugal so we could have already agreed something
It could be the reason for the delay in this and just a case of a signature when hes holidayed
Its the only concrete offer we know about is this West Brom fiasco I am Slight worried we haven't seen any other concrete offers go in for other suitors but till things start moving we dont seem to dabble the only concern is we start our season a month early and we are never quick out the blocks when it comes to signing players
But maybe there are in the pipe line and keeping them close to there chests

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:55 pm

Apparently he has joined Clitheroe Golf Club and bought a house near Whalley. Discussions ongoing about £15 mill upfront and extras depending on positions we finish in

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:44 pm

Longside4evr wrote: If we haven't pulled the deal off with in the next 10 days or so we need to definitely move on and personally I would not be that disappointed if we did move on from this

I was reading some of the comments on one of the WBA forums and a couple of posters alluded to his lack of pace.

http://wbaunofficial.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=15666" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A player doesn't have to be rapid to do well as a centre forward, but losing a couple of yards in pace can make a big difference to a winger whose game favours sprinting down the line and cutting in to shoot. Although he hasn't seemed especially slow to me, a reduction in speed could be part of the explanation for his reduced returns from the left wing.

Then again, it might just be a dip in form or something.

No other clubs seem to be particularly interested in Jay at the moment and if we did have to move on it then wouldn't be the end of the world. With Nahki clearly looking to stay with us and prove himself with more game time we could always make another run at Jay in the Winter window if that doesn't work out for him.

Longside4evr wrote:we are never quick out the blocks when it comes to signing players

We where lightning fast out of the blocks last season, which surpised the heck out of me. We managed to bring in Corky, Walters, Bardsley and Taylor before anyone could blink. However, I would describe those players as fairly "soft" targets, because their clubs where happy to sell them and we didn't encounter any competition for their signatures.

After that we went on to sign Wood, paying a generous sum to get him over the line, and then it all sort of fizzled out as we shifted our attention towards more challenging targets.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:20 pm

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; birmingham mail are reporting that dawson is considering putting in a transfer request so he can leave

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:18 pm

West Brom now back in for pre-season. Hopefully neither gets injured.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:21 pm

The way i see it, Dawson is an additional CB and a replacement for Keane. Jay would likely be in exchange plus around 10-15m quid for Wells.

Both clearly improve the squad. what's not to like?

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:27 pm

Reported WBA want 20m for Dawson

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:31 pm

WBA turn down £12M from West Ham, they want £20M

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:33 pm

claretandy wrote:WBA turn down £12M from West Ham, they want £20M

Like it or not, somewhere in the middle, say 16m plus 2 if we stay up again, is probably about market rate

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:51 pm

joey13 wrote:Reported WBA want 20m for Dawson

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:09 pm

joey13 wrote:Reported WBA want 20m for Dawson

I hope we have other targets on this one. This is laughable.