ARTICLE: Clarets make move for West Brom pair

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Thanks for alerting me to this. This poster served a ban last season for suggesting we signed players based on their colour and nationality so he has previous. I’ve taken the appropriate action.

Has he departed for a period again? ......this guy gets so many chances what does he actually have to do to get a permanent ban,hope this one if he is banned is for all the pre season,can't get my head round how he always knocks our transfer dealings,just never has anything positive to say does he?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:54 pm

I doubt we will get them both for anything close to 25 million. In the nonsense prices of the window it will take at least 40 million unless both players kick off and hand in transfer requests which I doubt they will

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:56 pm

Would be 2 very good signings IMO, replacements for Walters and Bardsley with Dawson able to fill it at right back if needed.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 pm

WBA set to reject the offer

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/fo ... ig-dawson/

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Dawson we dont need if West Brom think they can get more let them go elsewhere.Jay would be a good moral boost signing.Re cb Mawson looks a better bet

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Dawson we dont need if West Brom think they can get more let them go elsewhere.Jay would be a good moral boost signing.Re cb Mawson looks a better bet

I agree about Mawson, I'd look at either Mawson or Gibson if WBA try to ramp up Dawson's price.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:26 pm

mawson and gibson will both cost far more than dawson.

i believe dawson is interested so i'd expect it to happen without too much wrangling, albeit you never know with west brom.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Whilst West Brom will obviously hold out for as much as possible, if Rodriguez and Dawson have let it be known that they're keen on the move, they will be resigned to losing both players. I'm not saying the players should throw their toys out of the pram but they need to help push this along from their side.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:30 pm

I think Jay is more a risk than Dawson tbh

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:35 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:Whilst West Brom will obviously hold out for as much as possible, if Rodriguez and Dawson have let it be known that they're keen on the move, they will be resigned to losing both players. I'm not saying the players should throw their toys out of the pram but they need to help push this along from their side.

The Sporting situation is interesting, many players simply ''ripping up'' their contracts and moving for free, I don't know how they can possibly do that but it shows players really do run the show and hold all the power.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:38 pm

I think we'll get em if SD wants em.

The £25 million was bound to be rejected.
Opening shot, we'll be prepared to up it.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Well at least we haven't gone in with a ridiculously low offer but West Brom
will hold out for more. How much more is the leading question.

We'll probably up the offer to 28m. Say 20m up front and 8m add ons.
And WBA will probably reject that too and hold out for 30m+

That's a lot as far as I am concerned for two players who are both 28 years old
and probably not worth much after 2/3 years.

But I suppose that's the going rate nowadays for players with Premiership experience.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:50 pm

In the perfect world we'll get these two and then bring in a younger version of Jay Rod as back up. James Maddison would be my preference but i doubt we'll get him. He looks a class act though.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Has he departed for a period again? ......this guy gets so many chances what does he actually have to do to get a permanent ban,hope this one if he is banned is for all the pre season,can't get my head round how he always knocks our transfer dealings,just never has anything positive to say does he?

I agree his posts have been particularly **** recently but should we really want to be banning people just because they are negative? I mean football boards are all about opinions, right?

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:The Sporting situation is interesting, many players simply ''ripping up'' their contracts and moving for free, I don't know how they can possibly do that but it shows players really do run the show and hold all the power.

Wasnt this because of the 50 armed ultras that stormed their training ground 2 weeks ago and attacked all the players due to not qualifying for champions league. Also thought they had links with the chairman who allows them access to the facility, so in effect the players no longer feel safe hence were able to tear up their contracts

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Wasnt this because of the 50 armed ultras that stormed their training ground 2 weeks ago and attacked all the players due to not qualifying for champions league. Also thought they had links with the chairman who allows them access to the facility, so in effect the players no longer feel safe hence were able to tear up their contracts

I think so yeah, I just don't know legally where the players stand on that, does the attack allow players to rip up the contracts?

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:03 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Thanks for alerting me to this. This poster served a ban last season for suggesting we signed players based on their colour and nationality so he has previous. I’ve taken the appropriate action.

Sorry duplicate post

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:03 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I agree his posts have been particularly **** recently but should we really want to be banning people just because they are negative? I mean football boards are all about opinions, right?

I would say there is a difference between being generally negative or pessimistic, and 'trolling'.

That particular user thrives on the attention his posts generate. I refuse to respond to anything he posts.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:06 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I agree his posts have been particularly **** recently but should we really want to be banning people just because they are negative? I mean football boards are all about opinions, right?

No we shouldn't and no we haven't

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:06 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I agree his posts have been particularly **** recently but should we really want to be banning people just because they are negative? I mean football boards are all about opinions, right?

Of course yes,but he is so negative towards the club it gets a bit tedious

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm

Tarks struggled on the left side of a back two at the back end of last season. I can't see either him or Dawson playing that role. Plus I doubt he'll come as backup either.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:I think so yeah, I just don't know legally where the players stand on that, does the attack allow players to rip up the contracts?

All explained here.
http://www.skysports.com/share/11403673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:21 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No we shouldn't and no we haven't

Hey i'm not criticising, just putting my two cents out there.

In fairness I have a lot of faith in this forums moderation team in terms of banning and how they manage people & posts on here; the moderators seem to largely let things flow and aren't too heavy-handed or unfair. The fact that I've never been banned (while I'm sure i've had my fair share of complaints over the years) is proof of that.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:29 pm

jlup1980 wrote:In the perfect world we'll get these two and then bring in a younger version of Jay Rod as back up. James Maddison would be my preference but i doubt we'll get him. He looks a class act though.

Norwich want over £30m for Maddison - never played in top flight - worlds gone mad

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:31 pm

Murger wrote:Tarks struggled on the left side of a back two at the back end of last season. I can't see either him or Dawson playing that role. Plus I doubt he'll come as backup either.

We don't really want to be signing players that are obviously going to be subs. It's up to the player to have belief in their own abilities that they'll be selected.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote: worlds gone mad

If teams want him, and can afford it, then it’s a completely fair valuation.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:54 pm

jlup1980 wrote:In the perfect world we'll get these two and then bring in a younger version of Jay Rod as back up. James Maddison would be my preference but i doubt we'll get him. He looks a class act though.

Agree re Maddison. Top player, who I’m worried will end up at one of our league rivals. I know he’d cost but the sell on potential is enormous. Worth the punt.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:03 pm

it would suggest that either Mee or Tarks could be off unfortunately. Unless we are changing to 3 at the back

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:08 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:it would suggest that either Mee or Tarks could be off unfortunately. Unless we are changing to 3 at the back

Why?

If we’re following Sean’s new “two for each position” recruitment policy, it would leave us in the right place.

I don’t think Mee will go and I think because of Tarks 4 year deal were in a position to ask for daft money.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:it would suggest that either Mee or Tarks could be off unfortunately. Unless we are changing to 3 at the back

How does it suggest 1 must be going?

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:08 pm

Dawson is a right sided player same as Tarks and Long and we could see James struggling somewhat on the left hand side when Mee was out injured
As for anybody thinking Taylor is a viable option as left CB just remember he did not get a start or play any time in that position during Mee's absence which says plenty to me
We made a huge mistake in not getting a second left sided CB last summer and going after Dawson is not going to help now

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:14 pm

I really don't think Dyche will play 3 at the back but maybe that was why he was trying Taylor out more centrally.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:31 pm

I agree Tarks could be off if we sign Dawson. If Dawson comes we will have 4 centre backs.
Tarks would fund the signing of both Jay and Dawson. We would also have money left over to finance an up and coming young centre half to give us additional cover

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:37 pm

piston broke wrote:All explained here.
http://www.skysports.com/share/11403673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a tricky one and it could go either way. However, if Portuguese contract law works in a similar way to ours then I would give the upper hand to Sporting.

Putting aside the speculative links between the offenders and Carvalho the club failed in their duty to protect the safety of their players, exposing them to the potential for and in this case actual harm. When you are dealing with a fan base that has a recorded history of violence and volatility the protection afforded to the players after Carvalho had inflamed the fans ire with his targeted media criticism of the team was negligible.

After the horrendous attack (which would constitute just cause for any person in any employment position) the players should have submitted their requests to rescind their contracts immediately.

However, the players then went on to play for the club in the cup match a week later and no doubt they also accepted their wages for that week. These factors would amount to a reaffirmation of their contracts. In direct response to an event that would have resulted in any reasonable person immediately terminating their contract the players chose to continue playing for the club and continue accepting payment for their services in line with their contractual demands.

It sounds harsh and unkind, and in the circumstances it most definitely is, but contractual law is all about time frames, registered intent and niggling details.

Allowing the players to leave on free transfers is a possibility, but unlikely. At the very least, in response to the prospect of losing multiple millions, the club will certainly look to mount a legal defence which will draw the matter out beyond the end of the current transfer window. In respect to the players I can't see them being overly bothered about losing their wages for the outstanding term of their contracts, but the penalty payments for a breach of contract without "just cause" could be eye watering.

Now that the players in question have submitted "requests" to terminate their contracts I suspect there will be a period of negotiation and a compromise where the club agrees to sell them for fire sale prices after the World Cup. And with the English window closing so shortly after the World Cup we are far more likely to see the affected players signing for European clubs.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Top Claret wrote:I agree Tarks could be off if we sign Dawson. If Dawson comes we will have 4 centre backs.
Tarks would fund the signing of both Jay and Dawson. We would also have money left over to finance an up and coming young centre half to give us additional cover

We don't need to sell anyone to fund signings.

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Think a few want JR just because he's 'one of our own'.. With a scoring record like his, if he came from say, Doncaster, I doubt they be as enthusiastic.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:08 pm

Japebe43 wrote:Think a few want JR just because he's 'one of our own'.. With a scoring record like his, if he came from say, Doncaster, I doubt they be as enthusiastic.

It's nice that Jay came through our system, but the vast majority of people on here who want him back remember the player he was pre injury. Recognise the fight he added to WBA last season. Know that he is capable of playing up front, behind a target man or on the wing. Understand that working under SD will see the best of a player entering his prime years.
We'd take Jay Rod even if he came through Southamptons youth system.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:19 pm

Will certain posters ever stop questioning Dyche’s transfer targets?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:55 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Will certain posters ever stop questioning Dyche’s transfer targets?

What about if a poster just doesn't rate a player...for whatever reason?
Can't they express that opinion, regardless of what the management do?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:07 pm

Anything in the morning papers on this (normally out about now)?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:47 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:We don't really want to be signing players that are obviously going to be subs. It's up to the player to have belief in their own abilities that they'll be selected.

Except that we surely need another centre half, and if we're restricting ourselves to players clearly better than Tarkowski and Mee, it's a limited and very expensive market.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:06 am

James Tarkowski struggled at the end of the season, not because he was playing out of position but because he was carrying an injury. He didn't struggle in that position on his England debut.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:26 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:James Tarkowski struggled at the end of the season, not because he was playing out of position but because he was carrying an injury. He didn't struggle in that position on his England debut.

True but it’s a totally different style of football. It was his turn and go that let him down late on in the season and that could very well have been injury related.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:42 am

Jay and Dawson are quality players that would add to our team. We could possibly do better for the money, and easily do a lot worse, but taking everything into account they would be respectable buys for £25m that would improve us. If I had to leave one behind it would be Jay, even though he is the most desirable out of the pair. It is simply because we are well represented in terms of strikers and another centre back should be a higher priority.

Given a free choice I would prefer a younger centre back with development potential, but Dawson would definitely do a good job for us - albeit a very expensive one for a back up option if Mee stays. Shaun Hutchinson could be a cheaper option as a backup.

The problem with signing the pair of them is that any move could represent their last or penultimate contracts. Their value is not going to rise significantly and it will more than likely register a significant decrease over their years with us (age affects more than legs). Taking that onboard, signing this pair would represent a move to bolster our chances of staying in the EPL and push forward over the short term - with the expectation that we will be writing off the majority of their transfer fees in return for the revenue that accompanies staying in the EPL. The money paid to them in wages would also have to be factored into the cost.

The biggest hurdle for us will be Darren Moore. Unfortunately for us he seems to have a level head on his shoulders.

Having earned his appointment as the manager of WBA, with his excellent work in the latter part of last season, he won't be looking to hamstring his chances of keeping the job. A big part of his success was his affinity with the current crop of players at WBA. Irrespective of his own employment situation I'm fairly sure he is the sort of bloke who will be doing everything he can to secure success for a team he obviously cares about - as a point of personal pride.

After losing Evans and faced with the possibility of losing Dawson, Jay and Rondon he could be looking at the wholesale replacement of his first pick attacking and defensive options. Experiencing success with an existing team is one thing, having to perform a major restructuring on the back of a relegation in the cutthroat arena of your first transfer window is another thing entirely. I'm sure he is well aware of this and I would expect him to fight tooth and nail to keep hold of his best players. This could easily lead to some ridiculous price demands and a long and drawn out negotiating period.

West Brom might well be down, but I suspect they are looking to bounce back. If we are viewing them as a weakened animal that we can dominate with ease then we could be in for a shock. I would view them as a snarling tiger backed into a corner that is focussed on defending its reduced territory. I think an offer of £25m for the pair is a respectable one and it should be very close to our take it or leave it offer, especially when you take into account the time scale of this transfer window and the dangerous potential for WBA to string us along and dick us about, which would reduce our options to pursue alternatives.

Anything over £30m would represent very poor value for money, even in today's market. If we have actually made an offer of £25m and it is turned down then I think we should consider factors other than money if we go on to make an improved offer. An offer that takes into full account the aspirations of WBA for next season as well as our own. I can imagine Darren Moore frowning on a deal designed to help "you" (with the you being Burnley), but a lot more open to a deal that helps "us" (with us being WBA and Burnley).

If they lose Jay and Rondon in this window they will have to bring in at least two new strikers to give themselves a good chance in the championship. And proven strikers in today's market aren't exactly cheap or readily available. In contrast we would have six proven strikers on our books if we were to add Jay to our squad, which is one or two more than we need.

Walters has already communicated that he is open to leaving the club to secure more playing time and if Jay where to join then Wells chances of playing time could be reduced to the point where he might consider doing the same. It's a shame he has come up against the successful striking partnership of Wood and Barnes this season which has made it more difficult to secure a starting place. I think he could have something to offer us, but he has been given little more than scrap minutes on the pitch which makes it difficult to form any sort of conclusive opinion. He did very well in the Championship though.

Transfers involving player swaps are notoriously difficult to pull off, especially when you factor in agents wanting their slice of pie without the solidity of a transfer fee to work off. However, £25m plus Walters or £20m plus Wells could be the type of deals that would benefit both WBA and us. WBA would secure the services of a proven player that would relish playing time and positively contribute to a promotion push, a welcome wad of cash and the need to chase fewer targets in the competitive transfer market. In our plus column we could gain two of our apparent transfer targets.

Long Time Lurker · Post by **Long Time Lurker** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:51 am

I still think Stuart Armstrong could be a better shout for some of our transfer money, in respect to his creative passing and his ability to play as an energetic attacking midfielder who drops back to bolster our central midfield. I wouldn't say that he is the most technically gifted player, the type of player that elegantly drifts into space or uses a high level of skill to create or exploit passing opportunities. He tends to use his physicality to make the space he needs, in the vein of a gold plated wrecking ball.

His ability to stop players going past him is a bit of a worry, but it's something we could work on, and there is a big gulf between the SPL and the EPL. Although the fancy prima donnas in the EPL do seem to struggle against our physical style of play and another robust player could work out well for us.

http://celticbynumberscom.ipage.com/stu ... nd-affair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://thebackpassrule.com/2017/12/07/ ... armstrong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately the rumour mill is currently linking Crystal Palace, Brighton, Southampton and West Brom with interest in securing his services. If that is true it could push up his price, although with Celtic open to him leaving and eager to stimulate competiton or the appeareance of competition for his signature it could be hogwash.

And while Bobby Reid is probably best described as a one season wonder at this point, his pace and trickery would give us something different up front if he can build on last season and make the step up to the EPL from the Championship.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:04 am

Long Time Lurker wrote:I still think Stuart Armstrong could be a better shout for some of our transfer money, in respect to his creative passing and his ability to play as an energetic attacking midfielder who drops back to bolster our central midfield. I wouldn't say that he is the most technically gifted player, the type of player that elegantly drifts into space or uses a high level of skill to create or exploit passing opportunities. He tends to use his physicality to make the space he needs, in the vein of a gold plated wrecking ball.

His ability to stop players going past him is a bit of a worry, but it's something we could work on, and there is a big gulf between the SPL and the EPL. Although the fancy prima donnas in the EPL do seem to struggle against our physical style of play and another robust player could work out well for us.

http://celticbynumberscom.ipage.com/stu ... nd-affair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://thebackpassrule.com/2017/12/07/ ... armstrong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately the rumour mill is currently linking Crystal Palace, Brighton, Southampton and West Brom with interest in securing his services. If that is true it could push up his price, although with Celtic open to him leaving and eager to stimulate competiton or the appeareance of competition for his signature it could be hogwash.

And while Bobby Reid is probably best described as a one season wonder at this point, his pace and trickery would give us something different up front if he can build on last season and make the step up to the EPL from the Championship.

Why is Bobby Reid a one season wonder? and where have you read Celtic are open to selling Armstrong? I think we missed the boat on Armstrong when we refused to pay the extra £200,000 transfer fee.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:27 am

Cleveleys_claret wrote:How does it suggest 1 must be going?

I doubt Mee, Tarks or Dawson is going to be happy sitting on the bench - I hope I'm wrong though (I often am !)

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:35 am

Vegas Claret wrote:I doubt Mee, Tarks or Dawson is going to be happy sitting on the bench - I hope I'm wrong though (I often am !)

Charlie Taylor has said before that he is not happy being on the bench but he's still here fighting for his place. Most of those not in the team won't want to be left out but it is about being professional and taking your chance when it comes, like Barnes, JBG, Westwood and Nick Pope all did to great effect.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:12 am

I think signing Dawson covers us if Mee won't sign a new deal, and if one of the big boys comes in for Tarks, I think 25m is about the money for the pair though, i wouldn't want to pay much more than that.

AGENT_CLARET · Post by **AGENT_CLARET** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:20 am

They want 50 million lol lol lol lol lol